TM30: The form getting expats in Thailand into a bureaucratic tangle

[chrissables]

8 hours ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

So no issue for you as you let "she" go through the hassle. What if you had to do it, the online app won't work and it's a 2 hour drive to to the immigration and back? And you actually liked to travel away every few weeks, how would you feel then? ????

[Russell17au]

14 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

How many 1st world countries have laws from 1979 that were never updated to take into account the ease of international travel these days?

It does not matter how old the laws are, they are still the laws of the country and NO small minority group of foreigners will get a country to change their laws. This just shows that you were not willing to answer my questions honestly but instead had to try and show how "smart" you are by your answer that had nothing to do with the questions.

[Chazar]

18 minutes ago, newnative said:

   Someone (not me) who lives in Pattaya is going to visit his relatives in Bangkok this weekend.  Someone (not me) will leave Friday and come back to Pattaya on Sunday or Monday.  Someone (not me) will be staying at his relative's house while he is in Bangkok.  Someone (not me) will not be filing a TM30 when he returns to Pattaya.  Someone (not me) is pretty sure there will not be a fine to pay in his future for not reporting this trip.

But at least we've  established it  wont be  you

[Chazar]

2 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

NO small minority group of foreigners will get a country to change their laws

Many Thais are also complaining about TM30

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

People with one year extensions of stay are by definition not illegal.

 

How does making them report their return to their own, long term private residence in any way help catch illegals?

 

 

We can't expect logic from this Sheryl, but I can tell you one thing, there is a farang living in this village who is an illegal, i.e. he has not renewed his extension for 3 years now, came from Pattaya after his wife spent all of his money gambling, not my business and not about to put him in, each to their own. I know this much, she is taking care of him best she can, which is at least better than dumping him for another guy or taking off.

 

I agree with that your saying wholeheartedly, I for one don't like it, but until they change it, will just have to keep reporting to them online, their country, their crazy ways, I am over getting angry about it, otherwise I would have been on the next plane back to where I came from, which is always an option, push come to shove, and fortunately for me, wife and the kids have citizenship from abroad, have money to keep us going, and will go with another push, i.e. plan B is there waiting for the next push.

 

Looking forward to them getting rid of the TM30 or making the necessary adjustments, but we all know lose of face plays a big part in Thai culture, otherwise known as pride/stubborness in the west, call it what you want.

Edited August 29, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[flexomike]

1 hour ago, jamesbbkk said:

We were told that one time does it. No need to redo after each trip.

Every office has different rules and every day the rules change,  good luck

[Jumbo1968]

I was informed by Jomtien in May if you are on a Extension of Stay/Retirement Visa reporting wasn’t required ?

[4MyEgo]

Just now, Jumbo1968 said:

I was informed by Jomtien in May if you are on a Extension of Stay/Retirement Visa reporting wasn’t required ?

I read by someone else posting that that has now changed, so what out for it, best do a walk in and ask to confirm, I think you will be surprised, as much as he was, just saying.

 

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, Chazar said:

Many Thais are also complaining about TM30

They might be complaining, but who to? Have they formed a group to get all Thais to sign a petition? Have they formed a representative group to meet with the officials? It is no good them just complaining because that will not achieve anything. They are the ones that need to take action to have these laws changed but they are not even interested in lodging the TM30 so I cannot see them being interested in fighting to have the laws changed

[4MyEgo]

2 minutes ago, flexomike said:

Every office has different rules and every day the rules change,  good luck

Yep, mine said every time, now registered online with password, and can type each and every time, so they can have what they want, no skin off of my nose as much as I don't like it, it's better than driving there for an hour and 20 each time out of the province for more than 24 hours, "sounds so ridiculous", because it is, but hey, this is the LOS, with that phrase always reminding me of someone smiling with nothing up top ????

 

[Antonymous]

1 hour ago, Globe Trotter said:

The thing is though, there will not be an outcry or a revolt because the generations that are young now, and the ones that are not yet even born, will not know much different. For example kids 10 yers old or under today, don't know of a world without smartphones or social media. To them having one with them all of the time is natural. When it does eventually come to a point where there is tech inside of people, the younger generations then will again know no different. By that time though, Ai will have probably gotten to a crazy level of itnellegiance, and the tech will be integrated into the human mind. This is the ultimate form of control that has been the plan all along. Elon Musk of all people, has said that this is the only logical solution, to evolve and integrate with the Ai into the future, an outlook I certainly do not share. 

It's a lot like the internet, the internet was invented by a division of the military known as Arpa. The internet had to be sold to the masses as an essential part of life, and in the early stages it was essentially a free for all, totally open. But of course it has become more and more controlled, and is now a fundamental tool in the mass surveillance that we are seeing and living. 

 

Well said.

 

I believe strongly in the individual's right to privacy. The likes of Google (worst offender), Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon et.al. know too much about us. The real danger is that: "First it knows us, then it controls us". The internet has been hijacked by forces that do not have our best interests at heart, do not have democracy at heart. They are a threat to human autonomy.

Just look at China to know our near future, where private and public surveillance are being merged. There are now 'compliance' numbers whereby people are given a metric. Social scores are dropped if you associate and communicate with people with lower credit scores. Your ability to purchase services, benefits you get like discounts, are based on your metric. This is scary and its here. There was a brilliant Black Mirror episode in 2016  (Series 3 Ep 1 'Nosedive') that shows how far this rating system can go.
 

Anyone who uses a 'smart phone' and any of the services of the privacy raiders without due caution, or uses other social media, or stores anything 'in the cloud', has already given away their identity and all details of their personal life. It can all be accessed and collated in one central depository. Knowing this makes some people shrug their shoulders and profess lack of concern. Basically they just give up and make asinine comments such as "If you've got nothing to hide you shouldn't care".

 

But as Shoshana Zuboff says: "Anyone who has nothing to hide is nothing".
 

[Chazar]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

They might be complaining, but who to? Have they formed a group to get all Thais to sign a petition? Have they formed a representative group to meet with the officials? It is no good them just complaining because that will not achieve anything. They are the ones that need to take action to have these laws changed but they are not even interested in lodging the TM30 so I cannot see them being interested in fighting to have the laws changed

I  know some who have done the online petition, but many Thai live in fear of  telling anyone  higher up anything.

[4MyEgo]

Just now, Chazar said:

I  know some who have done the online petition, but many Thai live in fear of  telling anyone  higher up anything.

I wonder why ?

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, TSF said:

Embassies don't care, our govs & embassies don't want us living in foreign countries, frequently making work for them...they want us back in our own countries, working and paying taxes. Try complaining to your embassy and they'll say...we'll you don't have to be here, if you don't like it that much go back to your own country.

And stopping the apparent billions that are exported to thailand via pensions etc. They must hate that.

[sambum]

8 hours ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

The problem is self explanatory - if you have lived here for 30 years, and if, as you say you abide by all the rules & regs, (i.e. 90 day reports, notification of address, photocopies of house books etc) then you shouldn't NEED to fill out another stupid outdated form every time you leave your house for more than 24 hours! 

 

It's virtually saying that even though you have lived here for 30 years,  you are still a foreigner and therefore can not be trusted and are a potential criminal/terrorist! 

[Chazar]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I wonder why ?

Its  not as "you"  might think for tax  evasion, many of them were already paying  tax.

You create a  fuss at  immigration and they make  life as  difficult as  possible for you.

[emptypockets]

19 pages on probably the 19th thread on the subject.

Cant wait to see the reactions when they enforce the requirements to notify police BEFORE you leave your abode for an interprovincial juorney. That’ll be a beauty.

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, Chazar said:

I  know some who have done the online petition, but many Thai live in fear of  telling anyone  higher up anything.

Until the Thais stand up to the higher ones then these laws will never be changed because as every foreigner should remember we are only visitors here and we have no say in how the laws are to work, we can only obey the laws or move on to another country

[flexomike]

47 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

My owner lives in Germany, I do a TM28 at Jomtien which currently they appear happy with, it was done at Reception the last time a couple weeks ago, I didn’t even go into the office.

TM28 is for change of address

[JenksB]

55 minutes ago, kevinmartyn said:

The "TM 30" form is not difficult to complete. What is making me smile is that the onwers of condo's, house's, etc are required to report who is staying their. BUT it's the "foreigners" who gets to pay the fine or should i say the "petrol" money. As a foreign in Thailand we just have to accept! Yeah it's annoying but as foreigners we are not going to get the strange "Law" changed! Saying that the United Kingdom still has strange laws and one is if you have less than 2 shillings and six pence in your pocket you are a vagrant! 

 

Just as a matter of self interest and the Thai Government slogan of "Good people in and Bad out" How many bad have been found????????????

Yes the vagrancy act is still in use and people have been prosecuted under the act for sleeping rough, but it is now under review as it is not considered fit for purpose, when will we be able to say that about the TM30 in Thailand or do you consider it fit for purpose. TM30 may be easy to complete but getting it to the right place can be a nightmare, our local police want nothing to do with it neither do the local ampho, I have to go with the wife to Chang Wattanaeven though I am on the Tabien Baan an have the yellow book, I went to Chang Wattana on my own but was told my wife as the house holder had to do it, went back the next day and was fined for being late in reporting

[cnx355]

8 hours ago, ChipButty said:

I now know a few Thai landlords are not interested in registering their properties so the onus is on the farang to do it but why does the tenant have to do it?

Should crack down on the owners

yes, the other countries ( ASEAN ) around Thailand target the owners or guest houses or hotels, that do not comply withthe law. ONLY in THailand they go after the guest. Probably because they can can get money  out of it.  $$$$$$$$$$$$

[newnative]

23 minutes ago, Chazar said:

But at least we've  established it  wont be  you

Correct.  I am as innocent as the driven snow.

[lensta]

8 hours ago, puchooay said:

No. The owner of the property reports. Not the teacher.

 

If in any doubt, get the owner,or assist the owner to set up an account online. Get him/her to give you the account username and password and report yourself. Easy.

My question on this is

[lensta]

8 hours ago, puchooay said:

No. The owner of the property reports. Not the teacher.

 

If in any doubt, get the owner,or assist the owner to set up an account online. Get him/her to give you the account username and password and report yourself. Easy.

This may seem like a stupid question but how the hell does the owner of the house that I rent know if I have gone away for the weekend? It is none of his business and I have no intention telling him every time I take a holiday.

[Surasak]

8 hours ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

I suppose yours is the mantra, 'Nothing to hide, nothing to fear'. I guess you don't object to being controlled? Where is your collar and lead?

[sambum]

32 minutes ago, rott said:

Almost gave you a like but it is actually the United Kingdom.

Actually a passport says:-

[Parsve]

I have to admit that me and my thai wife, who is the owner of the house where we live, never have had any problem with TM30. We have asked "our" IO several times, do we have to fill in a TM30 now (last time two month ago)? The answer has always been the same, TM30 what is that? 

[Chazar]

12 minutes ago, newnative said:

Correct.  I am as innocent as the driven snow.

yellow  or white?

[Chazar]

3 minutes ago, Parsve said:

house where we live

what area  though? and again one of their many inconsistencies

[Call]

A lot of guys on this thread supports the TM30 debacle and finds no problem with it.

I would say, these guys are living in one place, most probably owned in foreign quota and somewhere close to Immigration. Most probably in Pattaya / Jomtien area. They hardly never moves around in Thailand, just hangs in the same bar every day. Do their 90 days report, walking to Immigration. Only concern are the exchange rate of their home country pension money and by that, the price of beer. 

They can´t think of other people having daily problem with the TM30, it´s not within their imagenation. 

They are the good guys ;-9