Collapse us if you can, government dares Brexit opponents

[Orton Rd]

17 hours ago, bannork said:

I think I know the maths- only 37% of the electorate voted for Brexit.

And of that 37%, zero % voted for a No Deal Brexit.

That is not how a referendum works, the people who could not be bothered to get off their bums to go out and vote do not count and have no right to moan about the outcome

Edited August 30, 2019 by Orton Rd

[evadgib]

27 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Robin Tilbrkook case is going nowhere. 

The appeal was refused

Yet the deliberate de-platforming by MSM prevented Joe Public from ever hearing anything about it. Why has he never appeared on the same platforms often frequented by the likes of Miller, Soubry & Dom-the-Weazel?

 

 

 

(& for the record he is continuing but has no chance of getting anywhere within the current timeframe)

Edited August 30, 2019 by evadgib

[Nigel Garvie]

16 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

That is not how a referendum works, the people who could not be bothered to get off their bums to go out and vote do not count and have no right to moan about the outcome

Everyone knows how a referendum works, but that's not what he said.

17 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

  17 hours ago, bannork said:

I think I know the maths- only 37% of the electorate voted for Brexit.

And of that 37%, zero % voted for a No Deal Brexit.

Two factually correct statements, neither of them dependent on  how a referendum works.  Logic please.

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Thanks to remind ThaiVisa's members that

the Referendum never talked about quitting the customs union or the single market ...

You obviously didn't get one of these that everyone household did in the UK..

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7579/CBP-7579.pdf

 

Or listened to the PM and others talking daily for months, campaigning to stay in the EU, what would happen if we voted leave. Along with the result would be respected.

 

I guess you have the new disease called hearingselectivitus. It has spread rapidly ever since 23rd June 2016.

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Laughing Gravy

[Nigel Garvie]

43 minutes ago, MarineEquine said:

Demographic change that is being engineered by the people who want to see a One World Government which they can use to suppress opposition. 

Open your eyes. That's why Brexit and Trump 2016 happened. The "deplorables" (mostly white working class males) are telling you that they have had enough but remoaners and the left wing of the Democrat party have still to wake up to that fact. 

Oh dear, you can't "Engineer" demographic change unless you carry out genocide of a particular age group. It happens naturally. In this case Baby Boomers are dying out and are being replaced by teenagers (Amongst voters). There were a lot of people in the Baby boomer age group (The clue is in the name), thus the average age of the UK voter is going down. Nobody is doing this. Younger people are more likely to support remain. The tendency of people to become more right wing as they get older, is not having the usual opposite effect because, in this age group, on this issue most peoples views are already set in stone. 

 

How relevant is the US to this? Well we don't call people deplorables here, it is an adjective not a noun. It is true that the better educated are more likely to vote remain, but the only really significant divide is age. Gender, Education, Class, appear from records to have had a limited effect. Old white men is the key Brexit supporting demographic.

 

There is no Democratic party in the UK. 

[Nigel Garvie]

17 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You obviously didn't get one of these that everyone household did in the UK..

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7579/CBP-7579.pdf

 

Or listened to the PM and others talking daily for months, campaigning to stay in the EU, what would happen if we voted leave. Along with the result would be respected.

 

I guess you have the new disease called hearingselectivitus. It has spread rapidly ever since 23rd June 2016.

 

Very good Gravy...ho.ho. Doctors are of the opinion that readingselectiveitus, from which you appear to suffer is more dangerous!!????

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Yet the deliberate de-platforming by MSM prevented Joe Public from ever hearing anything about it. Why has he never appeared on the same platforms often frequented by the likes of Miller, Soubry & Dom-the-Weazel?

 

 

 

(& for the record he is continuing but has no chance of getting anywhere within the current timeframe)

The merits of the case do not fail or succeed on the basis of media attention.

Most observers recognised it was not news worthy.

The Miller case are of constititional importance .

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The merits of the case do not fail or succeed on the basis of media attention.

Most observers recognised it was not news worthy.

The Miller case are of constititional importance .

Methinks you totally misunderstood what you have just read.

[cleopatra2]

19 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Methinks you totally misunderstood what you have just read.

if joe public did not know about the Tilbrook case how did it get discussed on question time.

Certainly enough people knew to be able to crowdfund the case

 

Just to add JRM thought it was not legally sound

Edited August 30, 2019 by cleopatra2

[evadgib]

54 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

if joe public did not know about the Tilbrook case how did it get discussed on question time.

Certainly enough people knew to be able to crowdfund the case

 

Just to add JRM thought it was not legally sound

Because a member of QT audience went off script and a Youtuber doorstepped the Mogg outside Parliament.

You had never heard of Tilbrook until his link & updates appeared on this website.

Edited August 30, 2019 by evadgib

[dunroaming]

I would be with Johnson over the no-deal option being kept on the table if you could trust him to use it as a negotiating tool and then, inevitably, buckling and agreeing the deal that the EU will accept.  But he is much too volatile and untrustworthy and more likely to try to stick to his ridiculous position and throw us over the precipice.

 

That is the fear.

[Forethat]

3 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I would be with Johnson over the no-deal option being kept on the table if you could trust him to use it as a negotiating tool and then, inevitably, buckling and agreeing the deal that the EU will accept.  But he is much too volatile and untrustworthy and more likely to try to stick to his ridiculous position and throw us over the precipice.

 

That is the fear.

BJ can't agree anything without approval of the Parliament. Just wanted to point that out 

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I would be with Johnson over the no-deal option being kept on the table if you could trust him to use it as a negotiating tool and then, inevitably, buckling and agreeing the deal that the EU will accept.  But he is much too volatile and untrustworthy and more likely to try to stick to his ridiculous position and throw us over the precipice.

 

That is the fear.

 

 

If you agree that it is right to keep no deal on the table, as a negotiating tool, then surely you would agree to no deal being implemented if necessary ?

 

That necessity being the case if the EU don’t offer sufficient crumbs for Boris to get parliamentary approval.

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I would be with Johnson over the no-deal option being kept on the table if you could trust him to use it as a negotiating tool and then, inevitably, buckling and agreeing the deal that the EU will accept.  But he is much too volatile and untrustworthy and more likely to try to stick to his ridiculous position and throw us over the precipice.

 

That is the fear.

No deal must be kept on the table, without it Boris will not get any concessions from the EU.

Jeremy Corbyn spent all his political career trying to get us out of the EU, now he wants to put his troops onto the streets to block the roads and bridges to stop Brexit, I shake my head.

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

If you agree that it is right to keep no deal on the table, as a negotiating tool, then surely you would agree to no deal being implemented if necessary ?

 

That necessity being the case if the EU don’t offer sufficient crumbs for Boris to get parliamentary approval.

No I am not that stupid.  No Deal would be catastrophic and that is precisely my point.  Johnson is far to much of a loose cannon to trust on this, hence the concerted effort to stop him.

 

Read my post again.  

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

No deal must be kept on the table, without it Boris will not get any concessions from the EU.

Jeremy Corbyn spent all his political career trying to get us out of the EU, now he wants to put his troops onto the streets to block the roads and bridges to stop Brexit, I shake my head.

I agree with the principle, absolutely but this is Boris Johnson and he lies and spins on an hourly basis.  Yesterday Eddie Mair played interviews with all of the newly elected cabinet members (including Patel, Javid and Leadsom) from June and July and they all said, without exception, that they wouldn't entertain or accept the suspension of parliament, under any circumstances.  Yesterday he requested an interview with the same cabinet members who all refused to comment.  Johnson is in the pocket of the ERG and they really are lunatics.

 

I am sceptical that any of the groups trying to stop Johnson will succeed.  There needs to be proper unity to bring him down and that isn't there.  It's too diluted.

[billd766]

19 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

This is an attitude that results from Europeans.
But it is to be noted that 48, XX% of the UK population do not want a hard break with their neighbors in Europe and want to stay in the EU.

 

It would be interesting to have current pro-contra brexit numbers.

 

Actually that is not correct.

 

48.1 % of those who voted do not want a hard Brexit with the EU is correct but some 27.8% couldn't be bothered to vote.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

 

Now unless you can prove that all 27.8% are remainers (which most probably is also not correct), then your post is wrong.

 

[vogie]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

I agree with the principle, absolutely but this is Boris Johnson and he lies and spins on an hourly basis.  Yesterday Eddie Mair played interviews with all of the newly elected cabinet members (including Patel, Javid and Leadsom) from June and July and they all said, without exception, that they wouldn't entertain or accept the suspension of parliament, under any circumstances.  Yesterday he requested an interview with the same cabinet members who all refused to comment.  Johnson is in the pocket of the ERG and they really are lunatics.

 

I am sceptical that any of the groups trying to stop Johnson will succeed.  There needs to be proper unity to bring him down and that isn't there.  It's too diluted.

But surely you agree that to respect the referendum result we have only two choices, 1. Leave with a deal or 2. Leave with no deal. If we don't give Boris the option of 'no deal' Boris does not have any negotiating power at all, he will have to accept Mrs Mays horrible deal, doubt him as much as you want but he still needs something to wave at the EU. Of course we can extend Art50 ad infinitum and keep kicking the can down the road, but most Brits have had enough and just want to leave any way we can and as soon as we can.

I don't agree with your appraisal of the ERG (surprise surprise) they do appear to want to honour the referendum vote. But I would think there will be many MPs in parliament who now wished they had voted for Mays deal, one being Stephen Kinnock who was an arch remainer, I remember seeing him on a news program a while back and he said he would now vote for that deal, and would try and talk some of his colleagues to do the same. It is not a good deal but I just wonder how many MPs would now vote for it if they got the chance again.

Edited August 30, 2019 by vogie

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

No deal must be kept on the table, without it Boris will not get any concessions from the EU.

Jeremy Corbyn spent all his political career trying to get us out of the EU, now he wants to put his troops onto the streets to block the roads and bridges to stop Brexit, I shake my head.

Hey what about some gratitude!! Corbyn was Farage's best ally in giving you Brexit. He sat on the fence till the piles entered his brain. Finally the Labour Party has dragged him screaming to the altar, where he is now forced to pretend that he cares about the country more than his idiotic ideology. He's just a hollow puppet, formerly controlled by the reptilian Milne and Mclusky. (They are on your side also)

 

Boris will not get any concessions from the EU. full stop. The signs are he is looking for a GE, hedge fund managers have already been approached for money so they say.

 

I'm not quite sure where you got the  "Now he wants to put his troops onto the streets to block the roads and bridges" bit. I must have missed that news, or is it metaphorical.

[billd766]

12 hours ago, Aforek said:

Because three years ago, nobody thought Brexit could be such a mess and a disturbance for us non British , so they didn't speak of " no deal "

That is what happens when you have a Remainer as PM and a Remainer cabinet who "promised" (and voted) that the UK would leave the EU on 29th March 2019.

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Hey what about some gratitude!! Corbyn was Farage's best ally in giving you Brexit. He sat on the fence till the piles entered his brain. Finally the Labour Party has dragged him screaming to the altar, where he is now forced to pretend that he cares about the country more than his idiotic ideology. He's just a hollow puppet, formerly controlled by the reptilian Milne and Mclusky. (They are on your side also)

 

Boris will not get any concessions from the EU. full stop. The signs are he is looking for a GE, hedge fund managers have already been approached for money so they say.

 

I'm not quite sure where you got the  "Now he wants to put his troops onto the streets to block the roads and bridges" bit. I must have missed that news, or is it metaphorical.

You don't know what Boris will get, unless it's your go with Spideys cristal ball.

 

No it is not metaphorical, Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum would be happy to shut the country down, nothing new there then for the Labour party. The Telegraph reported it, but I don't have access to it, but here's enough to get the gist.

 

Jeremy Corbyn has endorsed a plot by his hard-left supporters to “shut down the streets” by whipping up the biggest act of civil disobedience in decades to protest at Boris Johnson’s Brexit plans.

The Labour leader urged his MPs to join protesters planning to “occupy bridges and blockade roads” in 10 major cities in what some activists have already likened to the 1990 Poll Tax riots. 

The demonstrations have been organised by Momentum, the campaign group formed to propel Mr Corbyn to the leadership of the Labour Party.

[kingdong]

On 8/29/2019 at 3:13 PM, timendres said:

As a US citizen, what struck me about this video was how each person was allowed to fully express their thoughts without others jumping in and talking over them. And how each person seemed to listen and consider what was said, and respond to those thoughts. I am in no position to speak intelligently about Brexit, but I do hope it goes better than the dire predictions.

paradoxically it was the lies spread by "project fear" that led a lot of fence sitters to vote leave.

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

No I am not that stupid.  No Deal would be catastrophic and that is precisely my point.  Johnson is far to much of a loose cannon to trust on this, hence the concerted effort to stop him.

 

Read my post again.  

 

Read it.

 

But you would be stupid if you had something on the negotiating table and then said, “Oops, no, I didn’t mean that. I was never going to use that tool other than as a thread”.

 

You load a gun, you have to be prepared to fire it - even if it was intended as a peace mechanism.

[kingdong]

42 minutes ago, vogie said:

You don't know what Boris will get, unless it's your go with Spideys cristal ball.

 

No it is not metaphorical, Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum would be happy to shut the country down, nothing new there then for the Labour party. The Telegraph reported it, but I don't have access to it, but here's enough to get the gist.

 

Jeremy Corbyn has endorsed a plot by his hard-left supporters to “shut down the streets” by whipping up the biggest act of civil disobedience in decades to protest at Boris Johnson’s Brexit plans.

The Labour leader urged his MPs to join protesters planning to “occupy bridges and blockade roads” in 10 major cities in what some activists have already likened to the 1990 Poll Tax riots. 

The demonstrations have been organised by Momentum, the campaign group formed to propel Mr Corbyn to the leadership of the Labour Party.

wasn,t it "financial services"that are the biggest supporters of remain? now all  the remainers [under the banner of democracy and peoples votes,despite the fact they didn,t recognise the results of the  referendum 3 years ago] seem to offer is mob rule,be funny if they got their wishes and that goat corbyn got in,then the fun will begin.

[kingdong]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

I agree with the principle, absolutely but this is Boris Johnson and he lies and spins on an hourly basis.  Yesterday Eddie Mair played interviews with all of the newly elected cabinet members (including Patel, Javid and Leadsom) from June and July and they all said, without exception, that they wouldn't entertain or accept the suspension of parliament, under any circumstances.  Yesterday he requested an interview with the same cabinet members who all refused to comment.  Johnson is in the pocket of the ERG and they really are lunatics.

 

I am sceptical that any of the groups trying to stop Johnson will succeed.  There needs to be proper unity to bring him down and that isn't there.  It's too diluted.

and whose pocket is corbyn in?

[baboon]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

But surely you agree that to respect the referendum result we have only two choices, 1. Leave with a deal or 2. Leave with no deal. If we don't give Boris the option of 'no deal' Boris does not have any negotiating power at all, he will have to accept Mrs Mays horrible deal, doubt him as much as you want but he still needs something to wave at the EU. Of course we can extend Art50 ad infinitum and keep kicking the can down the road, but most Brits have had enough and just want to leave any way we can and as soon as we can.

I don't agree with your appraisal of the ERG (surprise surprise) they do appear to want to honour the referendum vote. But I would think there will be many MPs in parliament who now wished they had voted for Mays deal, one being Stephen Kinnock who was an arch remainer, I remember seeing him on a news program a while back and he said he would now vote for that deal, and would try and talk some of his colleagues to do the same. It is not a good deal but I just wonder how many MPs would now vote for it if they got the chance again.

Yes, the Remain firing squad did and will form a circle. I don't see how you cannot get the No Deal you want now, with all that entails.

[SheungWan]

what are bookies saying, what's the long shot now?

No-deal is 6/5 so not there yet.

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[SheungWan]

Gotta love those nimrods walking around with placards saying "Defend democracy. Stop Brexit".
 
I suppose nobody learns arithmetic in the UK.

Not a Hard Brexiteer strong point.

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[SheungWan]

The electorate were promised a very sweet deal and that's what they voted for, but it's turning out to be a load of nonsense.:
More money for the NHS
Vote Leave’s battle bus said: “We send the EU £350 million a week. Let’s fund our NHS instead”
 
 More money for farmers
“The UK government will continue to give farmers and the environment as much support – or perhaps even more – as they get now.” – George Eustice, Minister for Farming, Food and Marine Environment
 
 More money for scientists
“If we Vote Leave, we will be able to increase funding to science and still save billions” –Vote Leave
 
And no short-term economic disruption
“After we Vote Leave, there won’t be a sudden change that disrupts the economy.” – Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart and Michael Gove
 
We’ll get brand new trade deals all over the world
“We would immediately be able to start negotiating new trade deals… which could enter into force immediately after the UK leaves the EU” – Chris Grayling
here’ll be no damage to trade with the EU
“There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it… Britain will have access to the Single Market after we vote leave… The idea that our trade will suffer because we stop imposing terrible rules such as the Clinical Trial Directive is silly.” Vote Leave
 
The Leavers promised the earth, not an isolated small country living in the past.
 
 
 

Unfortunately the Hard Brexiteer sales pitch was exactly that of returning to the past. Going backwards however proving less popular now.

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[SheungWan]

It is normal in our voting system to only include the votes of those actually voted. The remainers are clutching at straws conveniently forgetting NOBODY voted to join the EU.

Which would hardly be a good rationale for driving over the cliff.

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