SURVEY: THAI Airways -- Bail it out or not?

[Scott]

There have been a number of threads about the troubles experienced by THAI Airways International.   Which of the following best describes your opinion on what needs to be done to decrease the large amount of debt on the airlines?

 

Please feel free to leave a comment.

 

Here are some links about voluntary salary cuts and purchase of new airplanes:

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1118588-thai-urged-to-cut-purchase-of-new-aircraft-to-25/

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1118510-thai-struggling-with-huge-debt-executives-asked-to-take-voluntarily-pay-cut/

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1118589-top-thai-execs-agree-to-help-out-by-cutting-their-salaries/

 

 

 

 

 

[kingstonkid]

we had the same problem with Air Canada.  The simple solution and it is simple is privatize it,  The Thai government can be a majority shareholder but put an IPO out and privatize it.  I would suggest 60% to start and then  they can sell some of the shares to lower their position.

 

this does 2 things

1. it brings much needed capital from the private sector in stead of government and 

2. it means that the company has to be responsible for it's actions to shareholders that are not just going to be figureheads and are actually going to be responsible to the shareholders and to themselves.

[teatree]

Privatise it.

 

Government run organisations are particulary badly run here.  Just look at TOT and the Airport Link.

Edited September 1, 2019 by teatree

[ratcatcher]

25 minutes ago, teatree said:

Privatise it.

 

Government run organisations are particulary badly run here.  Just look at TOT and the Airport Link.

Quite true, BUT

Telecommunications Organization of Thailand,

Thailand Tobacco Monopoly,

Airports of Thailand,

Airport Rail Link,

State Railway of Thailand,

Tourism Authority of Thailand etc etc are all ingredients that make up the swill at the trough.

[G950]

You can hide a lot of the inefficiencies, nepotism, and crazy Thainess if the business is purely domestically focused. Once it is exposed to an international market all of this general mismanagement is out in the open and there is no place to hide. 

 

If it is not restructured the loses are going to only continue until it reaches a tipping point. It can restructure now (unlikely) or completely fail and be restructured at a point where the Thai economy may or may not be in a position to do so under favourable terms.

[naboo]

Governments should run essential services and infrastructure.

 

Thai Airways is neither of these. Shut it down. Privatising it would just let the greedy gob<deleted>es at the top get their mits on more of the swill. Just shut it down.

[Cadbury]

Here is a very precise summary of all that is wrong with Thai Airways and how it can be fixed. Needless to say this medicine will be resisted to the last by the pigs at the trough.

http://bakertilly.co.th/insights/thai-airways-drastic-action-required/

[holy cow cm]

I love Thai Airways. My preferred carrier here that have literally flown on hundreds of times. But I do not think the government or the aristocrats should have their dirty little fingers on or any way in it. Unfortunately too top heavy for the trough feeders.

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

The Thai government can be a majority shareholder but put an IPO out and privatize it. 

Not sure what you mean.

IPO is a Public Offering that makes shares publicly available, not private.

The current situation is that THAI is majority Thailand state-owned. It's listed on the Thai stock market because 49% is publicly-owned.

Rather the Thai government needs to sell all its total stock and leave THAI as a 100% publicly-owned airline. If then a public shareholder wants to purchase majority share and take the airlines private, that's their problem. I think Thailand SEC rules won't allow the Thailand government to make a direct private sale of its majority stock to a private unrelated third party.

[millymoopoo]

We all know the answer to that.!

Dumping all the freeloaders, hangoners and ex generals on the gravy train.

Can anyone see that happening...????

Don't hold your breath.

[WeekendRaider]

no airline is economic, not even barely.  so yeah, of course, bail them out.  it's standard practice.

but know this.  next month Extinction Rebellion aims to shut down Heathrow again.  but it isn't just Heathrow on the list.  it's all aviation, commercial and private.  "aviation is only 2 percent of global emissions" is not at all accurate but even if it were, 2 percent is a huge percentage when (1) everything we do involves GHG emissions, everything and most things are not even expressed in tenths of a percentage (2) only a few hundred million of us have ever even been in an airplane even once in our lives yet.  so it is the first easy baby step, and not at all essential to our "lifestyles".  not even most of the few hundred million that we not only subsidize in a 1,000 different which ways (tourism based on air travel) but involves a negative externality that is, as they say, "priceless".  yeah, as priceless as anything could be.   

   

Edited September 1, 2019 by WeekendRaider

[seajae]

makes it hard to run at a  profit when govt people and family/friends of the people running it get free flights whenever they want them, all passengers need to pay or be paid for, should be no free flights for anyone. The only way to stop this <deleted> is for it to become all publicly owned then all the people running the company need to be approved by their  owners and must be able to show they are being efficient and not allowing all the current free passengers. Admittedly there needs to be pricing for their staff as is done by other airlines buy everyone else needs to pay full price. Maybe having to answer to the people that own the company will make the executives pull their finger out and run it properly, hiring top executives from overseas where their work ethics are a lot higher  would be a good start

[DrTuner]

Give it a mercy shot and put it out of it's misery.

[khunPer]

Get it financially organized and put it on the stock market, where the government still can be a shareholder, but preferably not majority shareholder. The revenue from the stocks sold could both be partly cover for the government's financial input from sold former government owned shares, and partly fresh capital for the plc by issue of new shares.

[natway09]

Restructure only if they allow a top Director to be assigned to the process employed from overseas & ALLOWED TO IMPLEMENT DECISIONS WITHOUT INTERFERENCE.

Never happen I know, but one can dream

 

[racket]

I say let it fail, and get the government out of the business - or significantly reduce its holdings. Allow a larger portion of foreign investor/capital to restructure and organise the company. 

[natway09]

Major restructure by bringing in a specialist & give him the clout to act out decisions made.

But can they accept an expatriate running the show.

There are 3 such people all Irish who have saved many airlines

[tso310]

Having been on Thaivisa for nearly 15 years the state of Thai comes up at least once a fortnight. National airlines have been allowed to fail in the past, SwissAir, Sabena and Alitalia come to mind. In asia I cannot think of any major national airline that has gone. PAL nearly went bust but still flew while in receivership. Garuda and Malaysian are both basket cases after many years of poor performances. Avoiding a loss of face is all that matters in this region.

[gunderhill]

Shoot  it down.

[ExpatOilWorker]

4 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

Quite true, BUT

Telecommunications Organization of Thailand,

Thailand Tobacco Monopoly,

Airports of Thailand,

Airport Rail Link,

State Railway of Thailand,

Tourism Authority of Thailand etc etc are all ingredients that make up the swill at the trough.

You might want to add the 6 state owned banks to that list.

 

Government Savings Bank

GH Bank

Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Co-operatives (BAAC)

Export–Import Bank of Thailand

Islamic Bank of Thailand

ME Development Bank of Thailand

[spidermike007]

Time to remove the government from the operation of this airline. They have proven themselves to be incompetent, over the course of several administrations, and there are way too many officials, army members, and ministers abusing their use of the airline. Put it into private and competent hands. Government ownership rarely works. 

[ratcatcher]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

You might want to add the 6 state owned banks to that list.

 

Government Savings Bank

GH Bank

Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Co-operatives (BAAC)

Export–Import Bank of Thailand

Islamic Bank of Thailand

ME Development Bank of Thailand

Thanks, but I didn't want to get carried away. after all I showed a rather small trough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state_enterprises_of_Thailand#List_of_state_enterprises

[jerojero]

Overpriced fares though. North America to from Thailand has equal or better airlines and regular lower prices. Eg. Cathay Pacific.

I love Thai Airways. My preferred carrier here that have literally flown on hundreds of times. But I do not think the government or the aristocrats should have their dirty little fingers on or any way in it. Unfortunately too top heavy for the trough feeders.

[simon43]

The simple solution and it is simple is privatize it, ...

 

Careful now.  That's logical thinking! ????

 

[holy cow cm]

1 hour ago, jerojero said:

Overpriced fares though. North America to from Thailand has equal or better airlines and regular lower prices. Eg. Cathay Pacific.

I only fly them domestic. Other places I definitely fly other airlines. 

[Fairynuff]

Thai friends often talk to me about TG. The most common thing they talk about is corruption and the top brass getting rich.

[GinBoy2]

Well I'll say this yet again. 

 

It's basically a zombie company. The horrendous amount of debt it carries makes it impossible to sell to another airline, that would be insanity.

 

So you are left with two choices.

 

You force it into bankruptcy, which wipes out the holdings of the 49%, or the Government wipes out the debt then tries to offload the whole bloody thing.

 

This is Thailand, and personally I just don't see either of those two options going down well!

[sqwakvfr]

“A country can have a National Airline without owning it”.  Malaysian Prime Minister.  I agree with this comment.  Sometimes the message has to be:  Sink or Swim and Do or Die.  

Edited September 2, 2019 by sqwakvfr
Grammar

[ylmiri]

On 9/1/2019 at 1:55 PM, millymoopoo said:

We all know the answer to that.!

Dumping all the freeloaders, hangoners and ex generals on the gravy train.

Can anyone see that happening...????

Don't hold your breath.

 Oh no, you can't do that. Those ex generals mistress need to go to London for shopping. Now where are those ex generals going to get the credit cards ? Ying luck went to London didn't she? So she was having high tea with those general's mistresses. High Tea in London is not cheap you know. Earl Grey Tea with scones?