UK lawmakers against no-deal Brexit to bring forward legislation

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

You mean: a deal which pass the HoC. Than OR lower your demands OR accept all what comes to you when you run away. OR let the people decide first.

I mean a deal that is fair to the UK and the EU, but personally I think it would be better to leave without a deal and watch the EU sweat.

The people have decided.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

There will be no debts paid, the UK joined a golf club and the committee changed it to cage fighting without telling us.

You will pay or the EU will send the boys round. I cant see Boris and Cummings putting up much resistance to Barnier and Tusk.

[Forethat]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

You will pay or the EU will send the boys round. I cant see Boris and Cummings putting up much resistance to Barnier and Tusk.

I'm reasonably confident Boris would kick Donald Tusks skinny butt in a celebrity death match.

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

No I'm talking about:

 

The economy nosediving, taking us into recession.

 

UK businesses finding it very difficult to export their goods.

 

Imports becoming prohibitively expensive for the consumer.

 

Small businesses becoming bankrupt.

 

Farmers being forced onto the breadline.

 

Unemployment increasing.

 

Us all having to accept inferior standards in order to survive.

 

The best and the brightest in the UK emigrating to find work.

 

These facts are accepted by all bankers, economists and industry leaders. Only blinkered hardline Brexiteers still refuse to accept the facts. Oh, and those such as JRM who stand to profit from the UKs demise.

 

Nothing to do with sandwiches and gonorrhea as your facetious remarks imply.

 

Only… NOT by Brexiteers.Therefore.. sorry for the remainers… only one solution: let the British FEEL a "Leave". 

 

When after, they want to be EU member again:

- Sign to accept for at least 80% of the voter's outcome with at least 80% voted = 64 % majority

- valid for 99 years

- Accept loss of all UK preferences, Schengen, €uro and right lane traffic

- not one €-cent out of the EU funds to get the UK up again, as the breakdown was caused by own suupidity

 

If not, enjoy WTO rules in trade with the EU and all other regulations with "third countries the EU has no deal with", exactly as you wished by a landslide, overwhelming majority of... 51,88 %

[Forethat]

Just now, puipuitom said:

Only… NOT by Brexiteers.Therefore.. sorry for the remainers… only one solution: let the British FEEL a "Leave". 

 

When after, they want to be EU member again:

- Sign to accept for at least 80% of the voter's outcome with at least 80% voted = 64 % majority

- valid for 99 years

- Accept loss of all UK preferences, Schengen, €uro and right lane traffic

- not one €-cent out of the EU funds to get the UK up again, as the breakdown was caused by own suupidity

 

If not, enjoy WTO rules in trade with the EU and all other regulations with "third countries the EU has no deal with", exactly as you wished by a landslide, overwhelming majority of... 51,88 %

Don't know if I agree with that approach.

How about if the same approach was implemented on a domestic political level? 

 

"Labour made a majority of the electorate upset, the economy suffered and for that reason they will be allowed to stand in GE for 99 years"

You recognise how devastating that would be for democracy?

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, transam said:

Well yeh, but isn't it a great feeling that the UK will not be controlled by foreigners anymore, as it is now the future would be grim...

Where you get the nonsense of "controlled by foreigners" from ?

 

In the EU there are three governmental organisatiosn, in each the British have a say just as every other EU member state. If the PM of the UK in the EU council does NOT agree, than nothing happens.

[Nigel Garvie]

1 minute ago, Forethat said:

I'm reasonably confident Boris would kick Donald Tusks skinny butt in a celebrity death match.

I expect Tusk is quite happy to have a skinny butt, maybe he takes exercise and has a good diet. Given the alternative is Bojo's vast wobbly posterior, and his borderline overall obesity, who wouldn't. Please don't explain the concept of the celebrity death match to me - I'd rather not know. 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

No I'm talking about:

 

The economy nosediving, taking us into recession.

 

UK businesses finding it very difficult to export their goods.

 

Imports becoming prohibitively expensive for the consumer.

 

Small businesses becoming bankrupt.

 

Farmers being forced onto the breadline.

 

Unemployment increasing.

 

Us all having to accept inferior standards in order to survive.

 

The best and the brightest in the UK emigrating to find work.

 

These facts are accepted by all bankers, economists and industry leaders. Only blinkered hardline Brexiteers still refuse to accept the facts. Oh, and those such as JRM who stand to profit from the UKs demise.

 

Nothing to do with sandwiches and gonorrhea as your facetious remarks imply.

 

Project Fear ... not Fact. Revisited.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I expect Tusk is quite happy to have a skinny butt, maybe he takes exercise and has a good diet. Given the alternative is Bojo's vast wobbly posterior, and his borderline overall obesity, who wouldn't. Please don't explain the concept of the celebrity death match to me - I'd rather not know. 

I bet you do really...submission is gained after Boris sits on Tusk's face and lets one rip!

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, Forethat said:

I see a problem with this approach:

It is impossible to foresee every single change that could have an impact on voters decision to vote leave or remain.

 

IF we decide to vote whether we should leave with No Deal and the result is No, should Brexiters then be entitled to demand that we "go back to the people" and ask whether we should Remain each time a new EU law is approved?

 

You see where that is going, don't you?

 

For instance, EU are about to introduce laws that criminalises criticism against migration politics. They also suggest that laws are introduced that allows the EU to shut down any media that publishes criticism against migration. In essence, we're talking about restricting free speech. If the people say No to Leave with No Deal, should we be allowed to demand a peoples vote on Remain with restricted free speech?   

 

I think that is an overwhelmingly important question.

A) frist: where you got all this nonsense from ?

b) even if.. in the EU council, all heads of government have to agree, so inclusive the UK Prime Minister. Remind: it is a Union of Nations, NOT a dictatorship. 

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Where you get the nonsense of "controlled by foreigners" from ?

 

In the EU there are three governmental organisatiosn, in each the British have a say just as every other EU member state. If the PM of the UK in the EU council does NOT agree, than nothing happens.

Catch up mate. There a very few votoes left now.

Edited September 2, 2019 by nauseus

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Project Fear ... not Fact. Revisited.

Yep all the world is wrong, only Brexiteers are right. Project fact now. Ostriches and sand spring to mind.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, puipuitom said:

A) frist: where you got all this nonsense from ?

b) even if.. in the EU council, all heads of government have to agree, so inclusive the UK Prime Minister. Remind: it is a Union of Nations, NOT a dictatorship. 

No. It's an oligarchy.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

Yep all the world is wrong, only Brexiteers are right. Project fact now. Ostriches and sand spring to mind.

You are the world then?  

 

[DannyCarlton]

12 minutes ago, Forethat said:

I'm reasonably confident Boris would kick Donald Tusks skinny butt in a celebrity death match.

Tusk is Polish and hard as nails. Boris is a limp wristed upper class Eton OB. He'd run a mile if Tusk so much as looked at him.

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You are the world then?  

 

No but economists, bankers and heads of global industries are.

[Forethat]

17 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

A) frist: where you got all this nonsense from ?

b) even if.. in the EU council, all heads of government have to agree, so inclusive the UK Prime Minister. Remind: it is a Union of Nations, NOT a dictatorship. 

A) From you. You are the one who suggested that very principle.

 

 

[Forethat]

24 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I expect Tusk is quite happy to have a skinny butt, maybe he takes exercise and has a good diet. Given the alternative is Bojo's vast wobbly posterior, and his borderline overall obesity, who wouldn't. Please don't explain the concept of the celebrity death match to me - I'd rather not know. 

I'll explain anyway.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity_Deathmatch

 

[nauseus]

15 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

No but economists, bankers and heads of global industries are.

Ah. Back to Project Fear after all then.

[bannork]

Rumours are the EU will withdraw Article 50. Macron's softened. Then if the UK Parliament agrees, Boris's do or die will mean die, for him.

Edited September 2, 2019 by bannork

[dunroaming]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

As you said 'i'm sure most leave supporters voted for'. You don't know because the question on the referendum was not clear regarding exit options.

It should have been very straightforward if only the politicians hadn't lied about the consequences.  People would have voted based on what they were told would happen and then that is what would they would have got.  But it became obvious from day one that the promises were empty and un deliverable.  And so you have three years of desperately trying to get a positive deal from of the EU even though they always said that the only deal they would do would leave the UK worse off than if Britain stayed in.  Their position has never changed, it is only the UK that have flipped flopped backwards and forwards and got nowhere.

 

Common sense tells you that this is a massive screw up but actually Brexit has evolved into something much more.  It is not about leaving or staying in the EU, it is about the whole fabric of British society.  It is about the culture, the lifestyle and the enormous differences there are between large amounts of the population.  A chasm that I never really knew existed. 

[Forethat]

3 minutes ago, bannork said:

Rumours are the EU will withdraw Article 50. Macron's softened. Then if the UK Parliament agrees, Boris's do or die will mean die, for him.

You mean that EU will withdraw Article 50 rather than UK revoking it? As in "we the EU are going to remove your ability to leave the EU".

 

"you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

[dunroaming]

11 minutes ago, bannork said:

Rumours are the EU will withdraw Article 50. Macron's softened. Then if the UK Parliament agrees, Boris's do or die will mean die, for him.

Rumours have been rife about everything linked to Brexit for years.  Most of the time they are just that, rumours that never materialise.

[bannork]

17 minutes ago, Forethat said:

You mean that EU will withdraw Article 50 rather than UK revoking it? As in "we the EU are going to remove your ability to leave the EU".

 

"you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

Permanent extension granted by EU, October 31 deadline revoked by UK Parliament.

[Forethat]

Just now, bannork said:

Permanent extension granted by EU, October 31 deadline revoked by UK Parliament.

Yap, that's pretty much what I expected. They'll grant an extension to allow for a vote of no confidence and subsequent parliamentary processing. Problem is UK can declare "we've left" on Nov 1.  

[Rookiescot]

13 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Yap, that's pretty much what I expected. They'll grant an extension to allow for a vote of no confidence and subsequent parliamentary processing. Problem is UK can declare "we've left" on Nov 1.  

Can you imagine the legal wrangling that would go on for years if that happened?

IF the EU was to grant another extension (and believe me I think thats a big if) and Johnson refused to take it then I believe he would be out of a job within hours.

 

[sungod]

4 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

We have done, several times. Did you miss all of them too?

I specifically mentioned the 1983 one, not any subsequent.

 

But I can see where your enthusiasm of multiple votes until you get the result you want comes from, given you dont like the referendum result ????

[Forethat]

12 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Can you imagine the legal wrangling that would go on for years if that happened?

IF the EU was to grant another extension (and believe me I think thats a big if) and Johnson refused to take it then I believe he would be out of a job within hours.

 

The only other issue I see with that scenario is the following GE. We'd basically find ourselves governed by the Brexit Part. As much as I would like to see us leave I don't think I'm prepared to allow them to run the country, but that's exactly what I think will happen. Expect at least two parties to be more or less annihilated.  

[vogie]

An interesting point was raised on the Sophy Ridge Show yesterday, it said that MPs could vote to extend Art50 but it would be non binding. But John Bercow could actually step in and making it binding forcing Boris Johnson to apply for an extension, but then a point was raised, it said once we have applied for our extension we could actually veto our own extension.

This is what I've heard and not necessary what I believe, as much as I want to.

[dunroaming]

47 minutes ago, Forethat said:

The only other issue I see with that scenario is the following GE. We'd basically find ourselves governed by the Brexit Part. As much as I would like to see us leave I don't think I'm prepared to allow them to run the country, but that's exactly what I think will happen. Expect at least two parties to be more or less annihilated.  

Valid point but when you look at the options they are all an absolute nightmare.  Conservatives led by Johnson, Labour led by Corbyn and Brexit Party led by Farage.  I see a massive migration by Brits to mainland Europe!  I've already bought my Spanish phrasebook.