Three Brits Kicked Out of Thailand

[Berkshire]

3 hours ago, Andy25 said:

No. He never taught English. He worked for one of the biggest multinational companies in the world.

So he worked in Thailand for 18 years and never developed any local connections, Thai bigshots who could get him out of a bind?  Heck, I've worked in Thailand for a shorter period and have some local connections.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, Andy25 said:

Thank you for all the replies so far.

 

Does anyone know if there is an official process that can be applied to officially question an immigration decision?

It could have been appealed at the time. It is too late after you have acknowledged the denial of entry decision. Anyway, unjust as the decision probably was, there is no valid basis for an appeal. It was publicly announced back in mid 2014 that immigration should prevent people using visa exempt entries to stay longer than necessary for tourism (though the prime minister advised that this rule should be applied flexibly). I am sorry for your friend. If he gets a Non O visa, I expect he will be admitted to Thailand, even entering through an airport.

[gunderhill]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

the ever changing whims of immigration and what's being enforced / not being enforced.

And where its  being  enforced.

[fourpack]

Well having trawled through two things strike me.

1. Is it real in the first place or just another attempt to get at Immigration.

2. If it's real then the fault lies clearly with the guy. He would have been here long enough to know what's happening and to any io his passport would have looked like a person living here on the wrong types of visa.

On top of that why didn't he get a non o ? Been asked by many never really answered.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by fourpack

[ratcatcher]

5 hours ago, Andy25 said:

Case three tried to protest and said he’d spent over a million pounds in Thailand

1 million pounds back in the day was worth over 40 million baht and more. What has happened to all his money? Did he build houses and buy a lot of things? Just curious, as he was certainly not short of dosh.

[Puwa]

4 hours ago, glegolo said:

I dont think that lawbiding people are getting throwned out of Thailand but drunks, overstayers criminals on one or another way they are throwned out fortunately...

 

So no problem for me..... This seems to be lowclass people anyhow....

 

Case 1 - overstayed dont understand why you mention this one at all....

Case 2 - criminal     "        "           "               "                "

Case 3 - no comments dont know and cant guess...

 

glegolo

It's like a whole game of throwneds.

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, FredGallaher said:

The problem with this and similar post, is that we only have what the author writes. This undoubtedly is not the whole story. He didn't do things correctly and got caught. If he wants to come he must change his way. He's to blame for this, but I wouldn't say he's bad just naive. 

Or broke!

 

You write: 'he's to blame for this'.  For being poor, maybe?

 

I also reckon people get worn out by the system which seems to regard them as 'wrong', and in the end they kind of flunk under pressure.

Edited September 3, 2019 by mommysboy

[Roy Baht]

5 hours ago, Andy25 said:

This one entered Thailand in 1992 with a tourist visa. After a few months, he found work and switched to a work permit. Between 1992 and 2018 he switched between work permits, retirement visas, tourist visas, work permits, and tourist visas. He never missed his 90 day reports or overstayed. He married a Thai girl and had three kids. All seemed fine until one day Thailand said no. You can’t come in! We don’t want you!

 

Thai immigration sat case three down and accused him of not having any money. Case three tried to protest and said he’d spent over a million pounds in Thailand and that he worked and paid all due taxes and social security. Plus he had £1,000 pounds in his wallet.

 

Thai immigration replied – ‘Who do you think you are a bit shot?’

Even as most positively stated, this case sounds dodgy.

 

"Between 1992 and 2018 he switched between work permits, retirement visas, tourist visas, work permits, and tourist visas."

 

That's 16 years but not all working. So how did he get "over a million pounds" to spend in Thailand? Where did the money come from? One million pounds divided by 16 years = £62,500  a year (more than 2M baht a year, even at today's crappy exchange rate). If he was so well off, why was he creeping in and out of Thailand like a backpacker? Why didn't he fly to the UK and get a proper visa? He had £1,000 in his wallet? Why was he only carrying cash? Why not a bank book or any other proof of his finances or income? Yes, one needs only 20K baht to come into Thailand as a tourist but this guy was clearly is not a tourist. This guy is dodgy—that’s what the Thai IO thought. And I’m tempted to agree.

 

[visarunner]

I know I get a beating in posting my own website, but apart from the various offers we also give some background info, even if you prefer to travel alone, it is worthwhile to read. Avoid from getting surprised, www.thaivisaservice.com .  

[Andy25]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

I don't know if this is just a game or based on real life cases.

 

But case 3 is troubling for me because he has a wife and 3 kids in Thailand, and is basically muddling through, which is often the way when kids arrive.

 

When taken as a family unit they are in fact stateless!

 

 

Muddling through is a good term. Guys talk about having their game together which is great. But when the game changes or it's played in different ways. How do you react.

Today a guy went to do his 90 days. Last time he was a month late and fined 2,000 Baht. At the time they said he could do this two weeks early or two weeks late.

Today he was 10 days late and fined 2,000 Baht. The message today was he could be 2 weeks early or one week late!

The rules change and the people that implement them don't even know what they are! And can you complain or question them? No! They just look at you like a dog that's fouled the foot path.

[DavisH]

5 hours ago, Andy25 said:

That's not correct. Work Permits for 18 years. Retirement visas for 5 years. But he's switched between the two and tourist visas.

 

He had had a retirement visa, but never bothered with an extension based on marriage, which is cheaper. Seems strange to me. 

[DrJack54]

19 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

Even as most positively stated, this case sounds dodgy.

 

 

"Between 1992 and 2018 he switched between work permits, retirement visas, tourist visas, work permits, and tourist visas."

 

 

That's 16 years but not all working. So how did he get "over a million pounds" to spend in Thailand? Where did the money come from? One million pounds divided by 16 years = £62,500  a year (more than 2M baht a year, even at today's crappy exchange rate). If he was so well off, why was he creeping in and out of Thailand like a backpacker? Why didn't he fly to the UK and get a proper visa? He had £1,000 in his wallet? Why was he only carrying cash? Why not a bank book or any other proof of his finances or income? Yes, one needs only 20K baht to come into Thailand as a tourist but this guy was clearly is not a tourist. This guy is dodgy—that’s what the Thai IO thought. And I’m tempted to agree.

 

 

Your so wrong in so many areas I don't know where to start. I'll mention just a couple. The proof of funds needs to be in most currency or travelers cheques. Plastic etc won't cover it. 

The guy in question did not need go back to own country. Could of and should have obtained non o based on marriage or retirement (if over 50).

etc etc. He was trying to stay in los on the cheap. Heck if I could remain here visa exempt why wouldn't I? I exit country every month. Back to OP case friend, he was right to be denied entry. My guess low funds to obtain correct visa despite the zillion £ he according to OP, has contributed. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by DrJack54

[DavisH]

8 minutes ago, Andy25 said:

Muddling through is a good term. Guys talk about having their game together which is great. But when the game changes or it's played in different ways. How do you react.

Today a guy went to do his 90 days. Last time he was a month late and fined 2,000 Baht. At the time they said he could do this two weeks early or two weeks late.

Today he was 10 days late and fined 2,000 Baht. The message today was he could be 2 weeks early or one week late!

The rules change and the people that implement them don't even know what they are! And can you complain or question them? No! They just look at you like a dog that's fouled the foot path.

2 weeks early and one week late has always been the rule. Never 2 weeks late.

[Andy25]

6 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

Even as most positively stated, this case sounds dodgy.

 

 

"Between 1992 and 2018 he switched between work permits, retirement visas, tourist visas, work permits, and tourist visas."

 

 

That's 16 years but not all working. So how did he get "over a million pounds" to spend in Thailand? Where did the money come from? One million pounds divided by 16 years = £62,500  a year (more than 2M baht a year, even at today's crappy exchange rate). If he was so well off, why was he creeping in and out of Thailand like a backpacker? Why didn't he fly to the UK and get a proper visa? He had £1,000 in his wallet? Why was he only carrying cash? Why not a bank book or any other proof of his finances or income? Yes, one needs only 20K baht to come into Thailand as a tourist but this guy was clearly is not a tourist. This guy is dodgy—that’s what the Thai IO thought. And I’m tempted to agree.

 

 

It's not 16 years it's more like 26. And if you work for a big multinational company, in a senior management position, a 2M Baht Salary is pretty normal with annual and incentive bonuses of 6 to 8 months a year. Times that by 14 years.

He didn't carry anything. Nothing. He didn't know he'd get a third degree at the airport and on here!

Creeping in! He flew in. He didn't try to creep in a back door.

But guys. Please try and forget about what you think because you're over thinking.

The question is how to challenge this situation.

[Andy25]

53 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

1 million pounds back in the day was worth over 40 million baht and more. What has happened to all his money? Did he build houses and buy a lot of things? Just curious, as he was certainly not short of dosh.

House, School Fees, Car etc. etc. Just normal living.

[Andy25]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

It could have been appealed at the time. It is too late after you have acknowledged the denial of entry decision. Anyway, unjust as the decision probably was, there is no valid basis for an appeal. It was publicly announced back in mid 2014 that immigration should prevent people using visa exempt entries to stay longer than necessary for tourism (though the prime minister advised that this rule should be applied flexibly). I am sorry for your friend. If he gets a Non O visa, I expect he will be admitted to Thailand, even entering through an airport.

Appealed at the time. He didn't even know what was going on until midnight and didn't see his passport for 20 hours. Plus he never saw the immigration report until 2 weeks later when he requested it from the airline. Appeal? There was no chance.

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, Andy25 said:

It's not 16 years it's more like 26. And if you work for a big multinational company, in a senior management position, a 2M Baht Salary is pretty normal with annual and incentive bonuses of 6 to 8 months a year. Times that by 14 years.

He didn't carry anything. Nothing. He didn't know he'd get a third degree at the airport and on here!

Creeping in! He flew in. He didn't try to creep in a back door.

But guys. Please try and forget about what you think because you're over thinking.

The question is how to challenge this situation.

I'm embarrassed I contributed to this thread. Why would the fella you know bother with appeal this issue. Esp with ZERO chance of success. With all that green for the wonderful position he held for many years why not get correct visa. He has so many options and unless I read it incorrectly he has obtained few visa exempt this year. Heck with all that dosh buy an elite visa. Then you go bat for him with the rubbish case 1 & 2 followed up with more crazy, case 3.

[Andy25]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I'm embarrassed I contributed to this thread. Why would the fella you know bother with appeal this issue. Esp with ZERO chance of success. With all that green for the wonderful position he held for many years why not get correct visa. He has so many options and unless I read it incorrectly he has obtained few visa exempt this year. Heck with all that dosh buy an elite visa. Then you go bat for him with the rubbish case 1 & 2 followed up with more crazy, case 3.

Why give in? Why not stand up some times and say is this the right way to treat people?

[BritTim]

31 minutes ago, Andy25 said:

The question is how to challenge this situation.

Forget the past. Get a Non O visa to visit his Thai wife and kids. Enter Thailand normally.

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, Andy25 said:

Why give in? Why not stand up some times and say is this the right way to treat people?

Have you read the very generous post from members far more experienced than myself. As I have pointed out as early as first few posts and then couple more.....

The guy you refer to IS IN THE WRONG. To the io it would appear he has EXTENSIVE history of living in los for very long time. Granted lot of that time on appropriate visa. However not this current year. Frankly I can't believe he was so stupid.

[BritTim]

25 minutes ago, Andy25 said:

Appealed at the time. He didn't even know what was going on until midnight and didn't see his passport for 20 hours. Plus he never saw the immigration report until 2 weeks later when he requested it from the airline. Appeal? There was no chance.

Yes, immigration tries to prevent you making the appeal. You need to know in advance how to handle it:

• sign nothing;
• use your phone that you are allowed to keep to phone a good lawyer.

In his case, it would not have helped anyway as immigration was operating within the rules. If the same happened when he was entering with a visa, a good lawyer can help as long as you have not signed anything acknowledging a valid denial of entry.

[kanook]

49 minutes ago, Andy25 said:

It's not 16 years it's more like 26. And if you work for a big multinational company, in a senior management position, a 2M Baht Salary is pretty normal with annual and incentive bonuses of 6 to 8 months a year. Times that by 14 years.

He didn't carry anything. Nothing. He didn't know he'd get a third degree at the airport and on here!

Creeping in! He flew in. He didn't try to creep in a back door.

But guys. Please try and forget about what you think because you're over thinking.

The question is how to challenge this situation.

I don't feel the least bit sorry for this guy.  Was it much much easier to live in Thailand on exempt entries and tourist visas in the past?  Of course it was, but the dynamics have changed and an expat who has held a senior position for a multinational company for many years should have the intelligence and means to make sure he keeps informed about immigration policy.  He could have legally worked and lived on continuous extensions based on marriage to a Thai citizen.  Not to mention that with such a high salary the man in question could have even applied for citizenship in recent years.  

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by kanook

[jondoe18]

12 minutes ago, Andy25 said:

Why give in? Why not stand up some times and say is this the right way to treat people?

 

7 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Forget the past. Get a Non O visa to visit his Thai wife and kids. Enter Thailand normally.

Yes ...Everything is fine here and mixed families are treated very fairly ????

[DrJack54]

OP, back in the "old days" I just remained in los on visa exempt. In the main because I go to Vietnam every month. So easy. 

Anyway one time I obtained tourist visa in Saigon. Think it was a triple, in days they existed. The clerk/officer said..."you over 50, why you no retirement visa" (know she means non-o.

Point is...I learnt that in a year. You need appropiate visa. The guy you describing has not worked that out. Keep in mind things changed rapidly in last few years. 

[NanLaew]

Much ado about nothing IMHO. For all his years in Thailand, this mythical "CASE THREE" must have been living in a cave if he was unaware that multiple visa-exempt entries are all rather perilous and have been so for quite a while.

 

It wasn't mentioned in the OP so apparently he hasn't been blacklisted. Thus his refusal to get a visa in the UK (or Vientiane or Savanakhet or Ho Chi Minh City), so he can legally return and work with his beloved Thai family on their future together is entirely his decision and absolutely nothing to do with Thai immigration.

 

My final observation on this 'self-inflicted wound' is to point out that just as condo ownership isn't a Thai immigration status, neither is married with children.

 

Get a grip.

[mommysboy]

8 minutes ago, kanook said:

I don't feel the least bit sorry for this guy.  Was it much much easier to live in Thailand on exempt entries and tourist visas in the past?  Of course it was, but the dynamics have changed and an expat who has held a senior position for a multinational company for many years should have the intelligence and means to make sure he keeps informed about immigration policy.  He could have legally worked and lived on continuous extensions based on marriage to a Thai citizen.  Not to mention that with such a high salary the man in question could have even applied for citizenship in recent years.  

Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application - Thai visas, residency and work permits - Thailand Visa Forum by Thai Visa - The Nation.urlUnavailable

'I don't feel the least bit sorry for this guy.'

 

OK.  Why not just leave it at that?

 

 

[Matzzon]

Here it´s just another story of a person that do not want to go the right way. Irrelevant if he worked before, if he payed taxes and if he have 1000 pounds in his wallet.

He is married and have children. The right visa for him is Non-O based on marriage or child dependant. Just assuming he do not want to show the needed money for an extension. Also to lazy to go to Savannakhet where he can get a Multi visa with no need to show funds. Totally crazy behaviour, and rightfully shown the door.

[Andy25]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

Here it´s just another story of a person that do not want to go the right way. Irrelevant if he worked before, if he payed taxes and if he have 1000 pounds in his wallet.

He is married and have children. The right visa for him is Non-O based on marriage or child dependant. Just assuming he do not want to show the needed money for an extension. Also to lazy to go to Savannakhet where he can get a Multi visa with no need to show funds. Totally crazy behaviour, and rightfully shown the door.

It's about knowing the game. He didn't know it. Savannakhet? How long has that been in play? He didn't do it himself. He spoke with an agent about the best thing to do.

[Andy25]

5 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Here it´s just another story of a person that do not want to go the right way. Irrelevant if he worked before, if he payed taxes and if he have 1000 pounds in his wallet.

He is married and have children. The right visa for him is Non-O based on marriage or child dependant. Just assuming he do not want to show the needed money for an extension. Also to lazy to go to Savannakhet where he can get a Multi visa with no need to show funds. Totally crazy behaviour, and rightfully shown the door.

Going the right way was what he was trying to do. The agent directed him the wrong way.

[Ron jeremy]

Guess what? The days of shady entries are over, period! 

Stay home.

no pity here.