Thailand drops in ranking of best places for expats - but which country is number 1?

[soistalker]

Why is South Korea so low?

[mike787]

15 hours ago, sweatalot said:

What a surprise - Not?

They must have heard about TM 30

YEA, and the mandatory health insurance, constant shakedowns, tea money, CM' lovey 5 months of smog, lady boy beat downs/robberies, safest roads in the world, etc, etc...imagine that....

[mpyre]

14 hours ago, alex8912 said:

You lost me at rural Vermont. 

One of the best places you could possibly live if abhor pollution, congestion, a dog-eat-dog environment, and the rat race in general. A pristine environment, beautiful mountains and forests, and small town friendly. And just a few hours to Boston, New York or Montreal if you need a city fix. 

[mpyre]

14 hours ago, toenail said:

Taiwan with a “language barrier”-??? I find Thailand to be worse. Understand ably the further you get away from the capital city or in the rural area the locals  cannot speak English- but even in the tourist towns the English is limited.  I found the young generation in Taiwan more capable speaking English compared to Thais. -but the Taiwan youth want to learn English ( unlike the majority of Thai students.  But the education system is totally different along with the Taiwanese being more “high tec-savvy “ Most Thais only know about Youtube & Facebook.  Using their phones for research or  learning about world events is rare.)

You're in Thailand...speak Thai, or at least ditch this entitled attitude that the natives everywhere should speak English.

[rotorbreeze]

16 hours ago, 3421abc said:

Not surprised Thailand is just above Morocco. However I am surprised VIETNAM is NUMBER 2!!!!!!!!! My rental contract ends in mid February and I am seriously thinking of moving to HCMC. Great to see Vietnam rising to the top. I tried to move to Taiwan 2 yrs ago but visa was difficult and I am not a fan of earthquakes.

Yes earthquakes flew overnight and hotel rocked and I called downstairs and staff said relax this is normal..well no sleep.. also VietNam my last visit this place is out to get tourists..had a VietNam lonely Planet book in my hand and vendor wanted to see me one!..Horns and honking and traffic no way near the educate of Thai driving...had a tassel with bus stopping on road side and asked us to remove our bags..then decided to move..typical dangers of VietNam. Buses play "Chicken" passing and on coming not give up road...never again..the currency is only good in VietNam...5000 and 50,000 currency same color Blue and taxi driver with want the 50K not the 5000 so be careful on open wallet. taxi will take you to the Hotel you booked and to find out that is not the hotel you asked him to take you...be careful in this country is is communist to core...

 

[balo]

Portugal is for me a very serious option if I decide to relocate. I am not retired yet, but when I do I would love to live near the sea , maybe the Algarve coast.  Easy to travel around in Europe, and out to the islands.  Thailand is not getting any cheaper. 

 

[lkv]

10 hours ago, Duck J Butters said:

None of these places even comes close to Thailand. Some folks are seriously confused. Very happy these tools are leaving. Thailand in 2020 is the greatest place on planet Earth and if you think otherwise it’s because Chads like myself with Beaucoup bucks are taking over your turf. Please leave Thailand if you are poor!!! That is what we are hoping for!! SMDLsrs.

I had to rush to the toilet to puke after reading the above.

[garyk]

28 minutes ago, lkv said:

I had to rush to the toilet to puke after reading the above.

+1

Thailand will still have the old times, but new arrivals will be far and few between.

[Bill Miller]

My place in AZ is off grid and in an unincorporated area.

Great when I was a bit younger and could hammer up a properly built frame house in a few weeks.

Now they are moving in with building codes, etc., and I wear a medical response panic button and can just about walk somedays.

I want back to Thailand with my darling wife, sweet step daughter and nieces, cool in laws, water at the tap and AC when the temps are really to much. 

I  really like that my frequent trips to the provincial hospital, where I have been paying "farang" pricing for four years despite the scare on another thread, are about 1/5 my copay amount under US Medicare.

I might like to consider nearby alternatives, but I think that's a no go for my very cute and beloved Thai wife. Family is important to me too.6

[tingtongtourist]

15 hours ago, EricTh said:

Take it with a pinch of salt.

 

Thailand at 25 is still better than USA at 45 but why do so many people want to migrate to USA?

err maybe they from countries ranked worse than 45? 

But I do get your point. Its the last place on Earth id want to go.

[Terminator]

15 hours ago, seasia said:

So do I.

I arrived in northern Italy in July for a 4 month stay, partly a "Plan B " experiment.

I am just outside the lakeside city of Como.

Nice scenery, nice air quality. Nice fresh food.

Locals friendly, people say Hello to each.

Cars stop at pedestrian crossing ( I do not drive ) so I feel safer.

 

Quality food is cheaper. Perfectly OK wine around the 2 or 3 Euro mark ( You can pay more of course )

Coffee  in the local bar I go to is 1 Euro. Beer ( large 660 ml is 3.5 Euro.

Far cheaper in the shops though.

I bought some 660ml bottles  on promo at 68 cents. Peroni.

The food that I like is cheaper and fresher than in Thailand.

 

Labour costs/taxis far more expensive than Thailand.

I am enjoying my stay but doubt I would want to be here in the winter.

Perfect, overwinter in Thailand or anywhere in SEA for that matter...

[Number 6]

18 hours ago, WeekendRaider said:

Thailand wins hands down.  rural Thailand.  show me where I am wrong.  aside from having to acquire the lower diglossia, the pluses outweigh all comers even if you have plenty of money by western standards and can choose where to live such as maybe rural Vermont, places like that.

self sufficiency.  food.  self policing.  a sense that folks treat everyone as family, generally.  where the village takes care of just about everything.    

water.  we will be okay for consumption, even during more pervasive and intense ENSO conditions.  no journal literature I have seen is not optimistic overall for northern Thailand and maybe Issan too, in a general way versus the rest of the........ planet.  to top it off,  where I live the Thai government just announced a new reservoir.  and except for the klong in my village that is lower than the exit pipe that heads out to the paddy, in recent years many improvements.  

housing is DIY or local labor, and we are able to quickly adapt for Climate Change.  no ridiculous permits needed.  and doing projects to get ready for what will come soon enough is really important now.  in 2019.  it's getting real obvious.  Rosenfeld et. al. in February Science, Mandy Freund et. al in Nat Geosci May 2019 and that July 2019 was the hottest month ever recorded, and 2019 was barely above a neutral ENSO condition.

the only serous minus is that the grid probably won't hold up in any kind of serious heat wave.  what was true for Chicago in 1995, New York City in 2019 and Texas in recent weeks is likely to also unfold anywhere else.  and in my village we drop down to 170 volts quite often and have almost daily blackouts.  that's now and notwithstanding it is a local political thing and merely a new transformer is needed, it doesn't ring very good.  but grid failures are a different thing entirely. in heatwaves they could last for days or weeks and today everyone uses electric water pumps.  and fans and water will be critical.  critical.  but this one for your own family situation obviously can be mitigated.  it's that it may be a larger issue for many other folks that it becomes the only warning light I see going forward, even if we face the worst situations quite readily such as a recurrence of the 2015-2016 ENSO.  but the Thai government has done quite a few projects where I live to prepare for most of that, just not how villages will power the water pumps that fill the towers.  solar of course.  

 

and one trap for the unwary (unread).  air con is not an answer.  get along without that one.  it is not a good thing to lean on at all.  we need to adopt to higher temperatures.  solar and batteries drop performance wise in 40 plus C temperatures.  and the other solutions are more resilient and helpful for surviving heat.  and to be ready for both dry heat waves and wet bulb ones.  different problems and different solutions.   but those can be covered... and we will need to do that almost anywhere you live even if The Woz is your neighbor down there in whatever that island is off of Australia.
   

      


 

 

Far away from the ocean - immediate deal killer

Despite being 2020 power and Internet issues

Heat and humidity

Thieves eyeing farang homes

Dusty and dirty

People are quite simple and simple minded

Bangkok is cultural void. Upcountry a wasteland

No serious airport

Live in the countryside can't own any of it (lol)

Nothing modem about it. Give me Wyoming, Iowa or Colorado.

[Number 6]

3 hours ago, mpyre said:

One of the best places you could possibly live if abhor pollution, congestion, a dog-eat-dog environment, and the rat race in general. A pristine environment, beautiful mountains and forests, and small town friendly. And just a few hours to Boston, New York or Montreal if you need a city fix. 

It's ridiculously expensive. Teachers and government workers have a stranglehold on taxation.

 

No place for old people - snow

[ChipButty]

I would have thought Australia has some of the best beaches in the world 

[Number 6]

18 hours ago, BobbyL said:

As a real expat that is living and working here legally then it offers a lot of positives. My salary is higher here than in England and I get extra benefits that I wouldn't get back home (bonus, flights, housing allowance etc).

 

For people who are retired or trying to wing it here on tourists visas then this study isn't really for you. The only thing that has massively annoyed me over the last year or so has been the TM30 nonsense, whereas the high BHT and low GBP has been great for me. 

I would agree. I'm banking 50k baht a month easy. I work a long, hard, tiring day and week but no OT. So instead of being down 50k baht a month it's sorta like being up 100k.

[The Preacher]

19 hours ago, WeekendRaider said:

Thailand wins hands down.  rural Thailand.  show me where I am wrong.  aside from having to acquire the lower diglossia, the pluses outweigh all comers even if you have plenty of money by western standards and can choose where to live such as maybe rural Vermont, places like that.

self sufficiency.  food.  self policing.  a sense that folks treat everyone as family, generally.  where the village takes care of just about everything.    

water.  we will be okay for consumption, even during more pervasive and intense ENSO conditions.  no journal literature I have seen is not optimistic overall for northern Thailand and maybe Issan too, in a general way versus the rest of the........ planet.  to top it off,  where I live the Thai government just announced a new reservoir.  and except for the klong in my village that is lower than the exit pipe that heads out to the paddy, in recent years many improvements.  

housing is DIY or local labor, and we are able to quickly adapt for Climate Change.  no ridiculous permits needed.  and doing projects to get ready for what will come soon enough is really important now.  in 2019.  it's getting real obvious.  Rosenfeld et. al. in February Science, Mandy Freund et. al in Nat Geosci May 2019 and that July 2019 was the hottest month ever recorded, and 2019 was barely above a neutral ENSO condition.

the only serous minus is that the grid probably won't hold up in any kind of serious heat wave.  what was true for Chicago in 1995, New York City in 2019 and Texas in recent weeks is likely to also unfold anywhere else.  and in my village we drop down to 170 volts quite often and have almost daily blackouts.  that's now and notwithstanding it is a local political thing and merely a new transformer is needed, it doesn't ring very good.  but grid failures are a different thing entirely. in heatwaves they could last for days or weeks and today everyone uses electric water pumps.  and fans and water will be critical.  critical.  but this one for your own family situation obviously can be mitigated.  it's that it may be a larger issue for many other folks that it becomes the only warning light I see going forward, even if we face the worst situations quite readily such as a recurrence of the 2015-2016 ENSO.  but the Thai government has done quite a few projects where I live to prepare for most of that, just not how villages will power the water pumps that fill the towers.  solar of course.  

 

and one trap for the unwary (unread).  air con is not an answer.  get along without that one.  it is not a good thing to lean on at all.  we need to adopt to higher temperatures.  solar and batteries drop performance wise in 40 plus C temperatures.  and the other solutions are more resilient and helpful for surviving heat.  and to be ready for both dry heat waves and wet bulb ones.  different problems and different solutions.   but those can be covered... and we will need to do that almost anywhere you live even if The Woz is your neighbor down there in whatever that island is off of Australia.
   

      


 

 

I just looked you up.  As suspected, I see that you are a newbie.  So your optimistic post is to be expected.  I am in no way critical as our post is similar to a post that could have been written by any expat here in his early days.  The shine will wear off.  Talk to me again in two years!  Enjoy it while the glow is on!

[ZeVonderBearz]

When the elite are trying to limit speech and freedom it is best not to have outspoken people around, such as farang. Chinese are welcome as they are more brain washed than the Thais and are bred to save for their masters. The Thai elite can only dream of one day having a mass population as obedient as the Chinese.

 

This is why I think authorities here are becoming more hostile to farang 

[john ianson]

18 hours ago, malibukid said:

no place to spend it in CM, lol. 

Can you please explain "real expats " ! And these "real expats " make money how ? Dealing drugs . teaching English in an international school on false documentation ! Please explain how you qualify for a work permit ! You make it all sound so easy so please inform us mere mortals 

[spidermike007]

Interesting. Very subjective. Who on earth would want to live in Bahrain? Why? Other than being paid a fortune. I can think of alot of nice little perks available here in Thailand, that one can only dream about in Bahrain. And as much as I love Mexico and it's people, it is very expensive today, and the security situation is still bad. I do not want to have to look over my shoulders all the time. But, I am glad Thailand is falling on the list. Things like this embarrass the incompetents at the top, and it is only though deep humiliation that they seem to get the idea to improve things. 

 

The neighbors are trying too hard, and making too much effort, and investing money. Thailand is not. So many ex-pats are now considering other spots. Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. Frankly, the biggest draw at the moment is being close to my wife's family, the food, and the relatively pleasant people. But, I dislike the government, I despise the army, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. But, despite that, I do think the positive changes are going to come from the youth, who seem to despise the status quo far more than the super conservative older generation. 

 

The administrations action, have made life here more difficult for many. The immigration policies, and the yo-yo effect of the constant changes, are annoying. Also, the sheer hatred and xenophobia coming from the army, and immigration are major turnoffs for most, and reveal these little guys to be exactly who we thought they were. Mindless, inane, non-visionary, inept, incompetent, vengeful, foolish, dumb, and totally indifferent to the well being of their citizens and their guests. 

 

I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality, but I guess one would have to deal with that anywhere in Asia? The vain attempts by the TAT to cover up the tourism problems and the massive decline are inane. Millions of Thais are hurting over the tourism issues, and they are completely unwilling to take any responsibility for that, on any level.

Edited September 7, 2019 by spidermike007

[yellowboat]

21 hours ago, DrTuner said:

My main problem with Taiwan is the threat from mainland China. So I've crossed it out.

Your main problem is believing in a Chinese fantasy.  

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/23/asia/taiwan-china-invasion-intl-hnk/index.html 

 

Besides what is mentioned in the link, Taiwan has missiles that target Beijing and Shanghai.  China has enough trouble with Hong Kong and keeping its own population happy.  A failed attempt could bring unwanted change to China as well. 

 

The real problem is that retirement visas probably just don't exist.  For working people, Taiwan's economy just hasn't kept pace, so jobs, opportunities are less than exciting.  It is a lovely, affordable, rather sane, safe place.    

[ThomasThBKK]

52 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Your main problem is believing in a Chinese fantasy.  

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/23/asia/taiwan-china-invasion-intl-hnk/index.html 

 

Besides what is mentioned in the link, Taiwan has missiles that target Beijing and Shanghai.  China has enough trouble with Hong Kong and keeping its own population happy.  A failed attempt could bring unwanted change to China as well. 

 

The real problem is that retirement visas probably just don't exist.  For working people, Taiwan's economy just hasn't kept pace, so jobs, opportunities are less than exciting.  It is a lovely, affordable, rather sane, safe place.    

Getting a working visa is also super complicated there compared to thailand, if self employed, i looked into setting up an office there a while ago.

The minimum paid up capital for a new company was 160k USD i think, there was no other long term visa option, no retirement, self employed, elite etc.

It's an immense investment in terms of money and the amount of people you need to hire just to be able to stay there.

 

Lovely country tho and nice people, but unlike here just coming and going doesn't seem an option

[Phuket Pete]

The Party's over Thailand ! Your corrupt leaders have shot themselves in the foot and pressed the self destruct button through stupidity, Ignorance and greed.

[MAGA 2020]

On 9/6/2019 at 11:30 AM, 3421abc said:

Not surprised Thailand is just above Morocco. However I am surprised VIETNAM is NUMBER 2!!!!!!!!! My rental contract ends in mid February and I am seriously thinking of moving to HCMC. Great to see Vietnam rising to the top. I tried to move to Taiwan 2 yrs ago but visa was difficult and I am not a fan of earthquakes.

Bye

[DrTuner]

10 hours ago, balo said:

Portugal is for me a very serious option if I decide to relocate. I am not retired yet, but when I do I would love to live near the sea , maybe the Algarve coast.  Easy to travel around in Europe, and out to the islands.  Thailand is not getting any cheaper. 

On my "after the kids have flown" list as well, although the cold atlantic winds are not something I take as a plus. Croatia is the other strong alternative.

[DrTuner]

3 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Your main problem is believing in a Chinese fantasy.  

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/23/asia/taiwan-china-invasion-intl-hnk/index.html 

 

Besides what is mentioned in the link, Taiwan has missiles that target Beijing and Shanghai.  China has enough trouble with Hong Kong and keeping its own population happy.  A failed attempt could bring unwanted change to China as well. 

 

The real problem is that retirement visas probably just don't exist.  For working people, Taiwan's economy just hasn't kept pace, so jobs, opportunities are less than exciting.  It is a lovely, affordable, rather sane, safe place.    

When comparing head to head any such risk is a minus. Also earthquakes, typhoons and as I've understood fairly cold winters. It's somewhere in the "if everything else has been nuked to smitherines" list.

 

So far my list is very short, as in I haven't found anything fitting yet. Liked Oz, especially the relaxed folks there, but taxes are insane. Going to check NZ next, then it's off to US tour ( more out of curiosity than anything else ), next up Europe (which I already know fairly well). South America remains a big question mark, Africa with the possible exception of Cape Town is a no-go zone. SEA is just China's vassal states now, India, Middle East .. forget about them.

 

There's always some deal breaker or it's only just passable. Most countries have managed to screw up their policies, too. The last refuge of the straight, middle aged meat eating white man is elusive.

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, Phuket Pete said:

The Party's over Thailand ! Your corrupt leaders have shot themselves in the foot and pressed the self destruct button through stupidity, Ignorance and greed.

Yeah Vietnam isn't corrupt and ruled by a brutal communist dictatorship regime that vanishes people from earth regularly?

They don't kidnap overseas, right? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44958530

 

[Geeyore]

With TM.30 extortion (I paid landlord's fine to get visa extension), we'd move to Vietnam in a flash. I've lived there previously, speak the language adequately, etc. In my particular case visas are very easy.

 

But not to put too fine a point on it, it's a communist kleptocracy. As an expat you can navigate around it for the most part. But any potential interaction with "the authorities" will cause headaches similar to TM.30. Believe me, I've had the joyous experience.

 

There's also a home registration requirement in VN, but I don't recall it to be as ludicrous as Thailand 4.0.

 

So just keep in mind that socialist/communist law = whimsical no law whatsoever.

 

[Geeyore]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Yeah Vietnam isn't corrupt and ruled by a brutal communist dictatorship regime that vanishes people from earth regularly?

 

Yes indeed. Thanks for bringing that essential clarification to VN comments. It's a communist kleptocracy where "the law" is no law. As an expat you can be fairly oblivious to that truth. But when not if you interact with the citizens or the gov it'll all become crystal clear.

 

I love the people, the food, the land, the gestalt of VN. But the gov has sold out to the CCP and at some point that becomes a rude awakening to any thoughtful expat.

 

Of course one can simply refuse to think at all, and then expat life in VN is just wonderful.

 

[Destiny1990]

30 minutes ago, Geeyore said:

Yes indeed. Thanks for bringing that essential clarification to VN comments. It's a communist kleptocracy where "the law" is no law. As an expat you can be fairly oblivious to that truth. But when not if you interact with the citizens or the gov it'll all become crystal clear.

 

I love the people, the food, the land, the gestalt of VN. But the gov has sold out to the CCP and at some point that becomes a rude awakening to any thoughtful expat.

 

Of course one can simply refuse to think at all, and then expat life in VN is just wonderful.

 

I dunno what u mean but visas in Vietnam are made cheap, easy, fast and simple so  without any of the misery we get here.

So what problems you are talking about?

[Bangkokazy]

Best for expat workers.

 

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-countries-for-expats/