condo law

[johanness]

A friend of mine owning foreign name condo to his name in southern Thailand(retired)

but he died (cancer) and he has western wife and 3 children in abroad ;how they can take over the condo to their name ?

how is the thai prosedur and law about that? how long das it take over? if long years pass after owner condo died ;what will be?what says thai law..

Thanks.

[Peterw42]

It would depend on factors like whether the guy had a will in Thailand, a will in home country etc. The system is similar to the west, the estate goes to probate, when probate is granted (1 year) then wills are exercised. No will would make the procedure longer.

An email to a Thai lawyer would answer questions and get things started.

 

 

[Delight]

 If their is a will pertaining to Thai assets  -then it is straight forward. Any good local lawyer can handle it.

Ideally his widow needs to be named as the administrator.

After probate the condo will be in the name of the administrator and can remain as such for many years. 

If the the widow is not the administrator then a FET will be required . The western widow  will have to pay this. Not cheap

 

if there is no will then the process is complex and very expensive.

Essentially the widow will have to go thru her national court then the Thai court.

If the condo has a market value of less than 1 million Baht -then this process will make no commercial sense.

Typically what happens in these circumstances is  for her to do a deal  with the condo management.

The usual arrangement is for the condo management to rent out the condo. The usual split is 50/50

If this cannot be agreed then both sides lose out. No income for the widow-no maintenance fees for the condo.

If there is no will then the widow will need to be both smart and determined.

She will need to be in Thailand to deal with things

Otherwise the lawyer or the condo will help themselves-maybe!

 

[Peterw42]

8 minutes ago, Delight said:

 If their is a will pertaining to Thai assets  -then it is straight forward. Any good local lawyer can handle it.

Ideally his widow needs to be named as the administrator.

After probate the condo will be in the name of the administrator and can remain as such for many years. 

If the the widow is not the administrator then a FET will be required . The western widow  will have to pay this. Not cheap

 

if there is no will then the process is complex and very expensive.

Essentially the widow will have to go thru her national court then the Thai court.

If the condo has a market value of less than 1 million Baht -then this process will make no commercial sense.

Typically what happens in these circumstances is  for her to do a deal  with the condo management.

The usual arrangement is for the condo management to rent out the condo. The usual split is 50/50

If this cannot be agreed then both sides lose out. No income for the widow-no maintenance fees for the condo.

If there is no will then the widow will need to be both smart and determined.

She will need to be in Thailand to deal with things

Otherwise the lawyer or the condo will help themselves-maybe!

 

I am sure the condo office renting senario does happen but its not an official or legal solution. The property doesnt belong to the widow or the condo office, how can they rent out something that doesnt belong to either of them. Condo offices cant legally rent properties, collect rent etc, again, they do it but it is not legal. The condo act etc expressly forbids condo offices running a business, acting as an agent. And where does the money go, into the condo bank account ?

[Delight]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

I am sure the condo office renting senario does happen but its not an official or legal solution. The property doesnt belong to the widow or the condo office, how can they rent out something that doesnt belong to either of them. Condo offices cant legally rent properties, collect rent etc, again, they do it but it is not legal. The condo act etc expressly forbids condo offices running a business, acting as an agent. And where does the money go, into the condo bank account ?

 You are correct.

However for certain it does happen.

Typically the committee handles it. Keep the JPM out of it.

Without this arrangement then the condo will be  idle for years -no fees for the condo.

 I also know of condos where it does not happen.

This is evidenced by the sight of  filthy cars in the car park -all with flat tyres ,

The widow will have to charm the committee chairman.

Not easy.

I think that sorting out the proceeds is the least of the problems.

The widow needs to be smart.

If this is too much for her -assuming there is no will -then forgetting the whole thing is probably her best option.

The condo simply loses out-not her problem.

[Guest]

People with assets and who do not have up to date wills are idiots.  Period.  Full stop.  (And that is regardless of age)

Edited September 27, 2019 by Guest
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[bkk6060]

Sadly, this is another one on the list of Falang irresponsible stupidity.

Medical issues is another.

Most of the people I know live here without insurance and just shrug their shoulders when asked what they will do when they get sick.

 

Many also own condos and have made no arrangements what will happen when they die.  I actually have gotten responses of "the embassy will handle it".

Most do not have Thai wills and many no wills at all.

Like someone else suggested, go to a good lawyer and get things figured out.

[AhFarangJa]

An Aussie acquaintance of mine has willed his condo to his two remaining children. He told me once that in order for them to take ownership they must first transfer funds to the value of the condo, effectively "purchasing" it. But then, as they do not live here, they have one year in which to sell it. Seems a bit crazy to me, which is what I told him at the time, but he is adamant that is the procedure. 

[nickmondo]

the chances are ZERO.

Even with a Thail Will, the chances are very slim.

Why anyone would buy a property here in Thailand is a complete mystery to me.

[maprao]

18 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

the chances are ZERO.

Even with a Thail Will, the chances are very slim.

Why anyone would buy a property here in Thailand is a complete mystery to me.

Why? Zero?

 

[Kerryd]

I'd suggest talking to a Thai lawyer directly.
I was told years ago that a Will from a different country would be almost unenforceable here just as a Thai Will would be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce in a different country. This is because every country has different laws regarding things  like inheritance and taxes. (Basically the same reason so many rich Arab wives fly to the UK or USA before filing for divorce. Even just in the USA a lot of women will "move" to California before filing for divorce as the settlements tend to be more generous than in some other states.)

From my experience (when my father died here 9 years ago). In his case he did have a Will so things were pretty straight forward. 

 

There is a 45 day period between when someone dies and when the courts will allow the Will to be probated. This is designed so that relatives (or creditors) can file claims against the estate.

After the 45 days (or at a date later than that), the court will allow the Will to be probated. Normally the heir or the named Executor of the Estate (often the same person) would attend court with their lawyer and, assuming there are no other claims on the estate, the judge would then grant them the right to dispose of the Estate in accordance with the Will.

However, If there is no Will then you will face a significant problem. A friend of mine died here without a Will. He left a large(ish) sum in the bank and no one, not even his sister, can access it. In her case, she'd have to fly here, hire a lawyer, go to court (many times) and in the end may end up paying as much as she'd get from the account.
Anyone else (i.e. a "close friend" or "girlfriend") would probably have zero chance of getting anything at all.

From my recollection - if an Estate lays dormant for 7 years, it reverts to the Government. Theoretically any money in any bank accounts would be transferred to (Federal) government and any property would probably be disposed of by the local (Province/District/City) government.

An actual (Thai) lawyer would be able to give you a much better explanation as well as proper instructions for the deceased's relatives.
 

[Pitza]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

I'd suggest talking to a Thai lawyer directly.
I was told years ago that a Will from a different country would be almost unenforceable here just as a Thai Will would be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce in a different country. This is because every country has different laws regarding things  like inheritance and taxes. (Basically the same reason so many rich Arab wives fly to the UK or USA before filing for divorce. Even just in the USA a lot of women will "move" to California before filing for divorce as the settlements tend to be more generous than in some other states.)

From my experience (when my father died here 9 years ago). In his case he did have a Will so things were pretty straight forward. 

 

There is a 45 day period between when someone dies and when the courts will allow the Will to be probated. This is designed so that relatives (or creditors) can file claims against the estate.

After the 45 days (or at a date later than that), the court will allow the Will to be probated. Normally the heir or the named Executor of the Estate (often the same person) would attend court with their lawyer and, assuming there are no other claims on the estate, the judge would then grant them the right to dispose of the Estate in accordance with the Will.

However, If there is no Will then you will face a significant problem. A friend of mine died here without a Will. He left a large(ish) sum in the bank and no one, not even his sister, can access it. In her case, she'd have to fly here, hire a lawyer, go to court (many times) and in the end may end up paying as much as she'd get from the account.
Anyone else (i.e. a "close friend" or "girlfriend") would probably have zero chance of getting anything at all.

From my recollection - if an Estate lays dormant for 7 years, it reverts to the Government. Theoretically any money in any bank accounts would be transferred to (Federal) government and any property would probably be disposed of by the local (Province/District/City) government.

An actual (Thai) lawyer would be able to give you a much better explanation as well as proper instructions for the deceased's relatives.
 

My son passed away in Thailand 14 years ago.. He had a condo, car, motorbike and money in Thai bank.. It took 2 years, but I ended up with everything, having been taken to court 5 times.. His solicitor, worked with his “best mate” and his Thai girlfriend, to try and get everything for themselves, but the judge awarded everything to me.. Maybe I was lucky, I don’t know..

[david555]

I think many candidate condo buyers should read all this posts …., as I am sure many are not aware of such difficult way.... even with a will ….as I was not aware it take so long , so different as in our western way , where all goes almost automatically

 

This makes me not regretting to stop looking to buy a condo , even that was only because the changing "atmosphere" in Thailand especially governmental ...

 

And thanks to all those posters who gave the story's about their experiences in such matter 

Edited September 27, 2019 by david555

[DaRoadrunner]

So should someone have a Will from their country of origin, or one drawn up in Thailand, or both?

 

I certainly would not trust a Thai lawyer to handle the proceeds honestly!

Edited September 27, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[ylmiri]

On 9/26/2019 at 12:19 PM, Delight said:

 You are correct.

However for certain it does happen.

Typically the committee handles it. Keep the JPM out of it.

Without this arrangement then the condo will be  idle for years -no fees for the condo.

 I also know of condos where it does not happen.

This is evidenced by the sight of  filthy cars in the car park -all with flat tyres ,

The widow will have to charm the committee chairman.

Not easy.

I think that sorting out the proceeds is the least of the problems.

The widow needs to be smart.

If this is too much for her -assuming there is no will -then forgetting the whole thing is probably her best option.

The condo simply loses out-not her problem.

I believe in Thailand many things (seemingly impossible) could be done or arrangement made for it to be done by certain people.

Both the widow and the person team up to do it will benefit.. She should get the information on the market rental value then decide how much she is willing to lose. She would lose certain amount but better than getting nothing. She should ask for payment upfront.

I had seen someone renting out the next door house after it was vacant for a long long time. May be the owner died without relatives coming to claim. So that guy next door was collecting rental for years. But he was smart he didn't do the renting out himself of course. He team up with someone and this someone act as owner collect the rental and get certain percentage of the rental.

[Delight]

8 hours ago, AhFarangJa said:

An Aussie acquaintance of mine has willed his condo to his two remaining children. He told me once that in order for them to take ownership they must first transfer funds to the value of the condo, effectively "purchasing" it. But then, as they do not live here, they have one year in which to sell it. Seems a bit crazy to me, which is what I told him at the time, but he is adamant that is the procedure. 

 Your Aussie acquaintance is mostly correct.

If his will is structured correctly i.e. one of the beneficiaries is also the administrator, then the condo can remain in the name of the administrator for years.

Thus avoiding the need to produce a FET.

The FET states that monies equivalent to the appraised value of the condo has to come into Thailand. 

Once the FET has been issued then  the money can be spent or possibly sent back.

 

[Lancelot01]

13 hours ago, bangkokequity said:

People with assets and who do not have up to date wills are idiots.  Period.  Full stop.  (And that is regardless of age)

Sorry, my 'confused' should have been like. 

I wrote a Thai Will eight years ago and left details of the executors with the beneficiaries.

[Tomahawk21]

15 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Sadly, this is another one on the list of Falang irresponsible stupidity.

Medical issues is another.

Most of the people I know live here without insurance and just shrug their shoulders when asked what they will do when they get sick.

 

Many also own condos and have made no arrangements what will happen when they die.  I actually have gotten responses of "the embassy will handle it".

Most do not have Thai wills and many no wills at all.

Like someone else suggested, go to a good lawyer and get things figured out.

Like someone else suggested, go to a good lawyer and get things figured out.

 

thats the biggest problem in Thailand, finding a Thai lawyer that is honest and who you could trust and has a reputation to carry out your wishes as to your will after you've passed.

[Kerryd]

10 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

So should someone have a Will from their country of origin, or one drawn up in Thailand, or both?

I certainly would not trust a Thai lawyer to handle the proceeds honestly!

You really need a Will in each country. One "back home" for your assets there and one in Thailand for your assets here - even if the beneficiary(s) are one and the same.

That's how dad had it and it worked with no problem. Dad died in Nov (2010), I did the probate on his Thai Will about 3 months later (due to work reasons I couldn't get back to do it at the 45 day mark, which wasn't a problem as there wasn't any contesting claims on the estate any ways).
I used the same law firm in Pattaya that dad used to set up the Will. They charged a percentage of the estimated value of the estate. When it came time, the lawyer and I went to court (in Jomtien) along with a translator (provided by the lawyer). It was a couple weeks before the paperwork was done and then I was able to close dad's accounts and dispose of his other assets (in Thailand).

I went back to Canada in August and arranged to have his Canadian Will probated there. As it was apparently going to take 6 weeks before it could be done (probably for the same reasons  - to give any other relatives or creditors time to file claims against the estate), I gave the attorney a Power of Attorney and went back to work. The probate was done in early October and the lawyers sent the paperwork to me in Afghanistan.
 

Obviously, try to use a reputable lawyer, not the cheap charlie guy operating from a cluttered desk in the back of someone else's shop (or from his 2,000 baht a month slum home).
The reputable lawyers generally make enough money from their regular business that they aren't going to risk it all by ripping off some foreigner for chump change. Of course, they will also charge more for their services. The cheap charlie guy might be willing to risk it as he knows he just has to pack up and relocate somewhere else and no one will ever know.
Reputable lawyers/firms have a lot more to lose.

But was we all (probably know), a lot of people will roll the dice and go with the "cheap charlie" in the hopes of maximizing their "win". 
"Up to you" as they say !