It finally happened! Denied entry at BKK on METV

[Langkawee]

9 hours ago, thecyclist said:

Even people with METV (for which proof of employment and /or sufficient funds is required) from their home countries are now refused entry. Utterly absurd. 

Only because the $100 game is being played at Thai airports. At land borders as far as I know they dont play these games. Can't understand why people want to live in a country were you are felt so unwelcome unless you have money. It's what people with half a brain call fake warmth. 

[donnacha]

This new trend of visas not being honored by IO's has been discussed in other recent threads. The general conclusion was that a key reason for even bothering to get a tourist visa has been eliminated. We also had one visa holder who was forced to hurriedly buy an outgoing flight before being allowed to enter the country, which eliminated one of the other reasons to bother getting a visa.

It may still be safer to get a visa if you have a lot of previous entries but the advantages are much diminished.

The somewhat angry insistence in this thread that the OP should buy an Elite visa is bizarre. If you must fly into the Bangkok airports, ask around and get in contact with a specific IO to whom you can pay a set bribe. I forget the exact amount, but the cost for a pre-arranged service is something like 5K baht. I believe the IO accompanies you right through to the other side.

Alternatively, fly into other airports and get a connecting flight to Bangkok.

[sanemax]

13 hours ago, sillyfool said:

this crucial question was not answered by the op i don't think. is the op willing to talk about why they are really coming to thailand so often ? being from canada there are loads of other places the op could travel to. which in 2019 are a far better value for a canadian tourist. why fly half way around the world for a holiday over and over ? the flight from canada to thailand is killer. the total flight time alone is 19 hours. 

 

it must be for the poutine. 

 

 

He quite possibly was rightfully refused entry by Thai immigration .

Did he get a new passport to try and hide his (visa) past ?

Was he staying in Thailand on the wrong visa and therefore rightfully refused entry ?

[yogi100]

8 hours ago, riclag said:

They are targeting younger aged  individuals  ,30-45.

 

I totally sympathize with you, it's not fair.

 

The IO have gone to far especially when you already were given a visa from the Thai embassy. 

Of course that's my opinion 

I hope you get a answer that helps you

Good luck

The friend that I referred to in post number 2 is 58.

[donnacha]

12 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Why? They are more racist against asians with western passports than westerners with western passports?

Depends which definition of "Asian" you mean but, generally, IO's worldwide are more aware of ethnicities than passports. A UK "Asian" of Pakistani descent may being considered as more of a Pakistani. An African American may be viewed with more suspicion than a white American, whereas a Thai IO may view an American of S.E. Asian, Korean or Japanese descent more positively than a white.

Just to be clear, I am stating how the world works, not condoning how the world works. The vast majority of visitors of all colors get stamped through with no issues at all.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[Caldera]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

None of them ever mention why they are so desperate to come here.

10 years back sure, but now, totally beats me.

I'd say that's a valid observation. I think for many of us who were here 10 years ago (when things used to be much different indeed), continuing to spend a lot of time in Thailand to this day is more or less just a habit that's difficult to break. The devil that you know.

 

I had to force myself to explore alternatives, but when I finally did, I liked what I saw - enough to throw it into the mix at the very least. I don't want to create another Thailand situation elsewhere further down the line, so I plan to split my time between multiple countries. That approach obviously is of no help to someone who has a compelling reason to be in Thailand, but for some reason cannot get a visa/extension based on that reason. Unfortunately, many reports are slim on details as to why they want or need to spend time in Thailand.

[Langkawee]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

He quite possibly was rightfully refused entry by Thai immigration .

Did he get a new passport to try and hide his (visa) past ?

Was he staying in Thailand on the wrong visa and therefore rightfully refused entry ?

Its not illegal to come to Thailand too many times. It is illegal to ask for bribes. Do you blame the rapist or victim? Thailand needs to sort out clear rules of entry to stop this corruption. 

[donnacha]

4 minutes ago, Langkawee said:

It is illegal to ask for bribes. Do you blame the rapist or victim?

It occurs to me that Thailand might be the only country in which it might be possible to bribe your way out of getting raped.

[FritsSikkink]

9 hours ago, thecyclist said:

Even people with METV (for which proof of employment and /or sufficient funds is required) from their home countries are now refused entry. Utterly absurd. 

No that absurd as there are many digital nomads who work here with the proper paperwork and don't pay any tax.

Real tourist aren't denied, people who live here on tourist visas and go back to there own countries once in a while are.

[sanemax]

12 hours ago, Langkawee said:

Its not illegal to come to Thailand too many times. It is illegal to ask for bribes. Do you blame the rapist or victim? Thailand needs to sort out clear rules of entry to stop this corruption. 

Its against tourist visa regulations to stay in Thailand on tourist visas , if you arent a tourist in Thailand .

 Trying to enter Thailand with a visa that isnt the correct visa for your stay is against the immigration rules and could lead to entry refusal

 

 

 

[mngmn]

50 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

I'd be interested in hearing that too by members here with dual citizenships & passports who do alternate it. Any issues with the IO when arriving? Does it help with the METV situation?

Five years in Thailand initially VE and then four consecutive multiple entry non immigrant O's. Monthly trips in and out of Thailand all in my Australian passport.

 

Refused a fifth non immigrant visa and so switched to UK passport and have to date made six VE entries. UK passport had never been used to enter Thailand.

 

UK passport is linked to biometrics but Australian is not. As soon as the two passports are linked by biometrics it's game over. Also wondering how many more VE entries I can do on my UK passport.

Edited September 26, 2019 by mngmn

[yogi100]

8 hours ago, Davo369 said:

Then when i arrived back at uk last week my passport wouldn't process through the electronic scanner, so emigration called me over to there desk and question me for 20 minutes on why i can afford to go away for long periods of time. I said i have all day to answer your questions had a fantastic sleep on plane in business class ????. Fxxxking cheek of it

It just goes to show you what is gradually becoming of what used to be our country. 

 

I once got the third degree from a female sub continental customs 'officer' at LHR for the best part of an hour. She turned my baggage insiode out and then even asked me if I had child or animal porn on my laptop and took it away to check it.

 

And yet we bitch about the LOS.

[donnacha]

15 minutes ago, Caldera said:

I had to force myself to explore alternatives, but when I finally did, I liked what I saw - enough to throw it into the mix at the very least. I don't want to create another Thailand situation elsewhere further down the line, so I plan to split my time between multiple countries.

Absolutely the approach that makes sense these days. Thailand will always have a special place in my affections, but I was pleasantly surprised by what I discovered once encouraged by Thai immigration to spend my money elsewhere. Other countries have come a long way over recent years and surpass Thailand in many ways.

Various European countries are also comparatively far better value than they once were, and are obviously a lot easier if you happen to have an EU passport. Thailand is rapidly losing its price advantage, and all the new red tape and growing hostility is obliterating its reputation as an easy-going destination. Keep shaking Westerners down for bribes upon arrival, or sending them back, and it won't take long for word to get around that the long flight is no longer worth the risk. 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[Peter Denis]

3 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Doesn't sound like a genuine tourist. 

nfor

why are you really spending so much time here? 

 

It finally happened...

Imo the title of the OP's post does not imply that he was doing something illegal like working on a Tourist Visa, but only that he was well aware that being a serial tourist in Thailand on Tourist Visa's or Visa Exempt, has the risk of being denied entry.

If you are under 50 and thus not eligible for a Non Imm retiree Visa, your options for staying long-time in Thailand are rather limited. 

There is the Visa based on marriage, but it would be immoral - and possibly illegal - if  the only reason for going for that option would be to be able to stay long-time in Thailand.

The Elite Program, or an Investment Visa, are options but obviously not everybody can afford them.

Rests the ED Visa, but if you just want long-stay holidays in Thailand such a Visa is also no option.

So you are really sc....ed when under 50, even when you have good reasons for wanting to be in the Kingdom long-time.

People in that situation take their chances, and have to face the stress each time they want to enter Thailand.

Unfortunately I don't see any immediate solution for that situation.  A 'Junior Elite' program for 30-50 years of age with less heavy financial requirements, would be a nice solution for addressing the present situation, but I doubt that IO would be open for such a suggestion. 

[yogi100]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

They do want him here, but on the right visa. People living here should be on non-immigrant, not on tourist visa.

According to his post he does not live 'here' if by 'here' you mean Thailand.

 

He said he wanted to go back home. To Canada. That would indicate that he actually lives in Canada rather than 'here'.

[Old Croc]

Many posters here who still think that playing the passport switcheroo will confuse Immigration by hiding excessive travel, are somewhat deluded. They must consider Thailand to be using 1980's tech.

For decades western countries have had computers capable of matching all of an individual's movement records, no matter the passport nationality or number, and many other details. It would be very surprising if Thailand is still in the proverbial abacus era.

Considering their various reporting requirements, extension regime and the copious digital pics they take of us, it would be impossible for all that to be only stored on paper.

Evidence was provided by a poster earlier in this thread who stated he had looked at his record open on a screen in front of an IO.

They must have an all encompassing computer record of us all!

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Old Croc

[UKresonant]

3 hours ago, jsmith22 said:

Definitely wasn't a moral issue. Knowing what I know now, I'll do it next time if it's ever offered again.

Might be ok for a US National to make a facilitation payment, but as far I remember from the UK corporate training it could be a problem for a UK person!

[donnacha]

13 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

A 'Junior Elite' program for 30-50 years of age with less heavy financial requirements, would be a nice solution for addressing the present situation, but I doubt that IO would be open for such a suggestion. 

If they even just introduced an annual Elite via at 100K, or a monthly at 10K, the Thai government would rake in unprecedented levels of visa money. Some people have no problem stumping up 500K in one go, but there are probably 20 times more people for whom that amount in one go is a real problem. Also, instinctively, most of the westerners attracted to the novelty of Thailand are not the type of people who want to commit themselves to anything five years ahead.

If you had the option to simply pay 10K at your local immigration office to keep getting another 30 days indefinitely, I reckon people would complain but end up coughing it up every month rather than flying out and messing around with visa uncertainties. That is how a smart country would cash in on Digital Nomads and all the other under-50 folks who want to stay.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[sanemax]

12 hours ago, donnacha said:

If they even just introduced an annual Elite via at 100K, or a monthly at 10K, the Thai government would rake in unprecedented levels of visa money. Some people have no problem stumping up 500K in one go, but there are probably 20 times more people for whom that amount in one go is a real problem. Also, instinctively, most of the westerners attracted to the novelty of Thailand are not the type of people who want to commit themselves to anything five years ahead.

If you had the option to simply pay 10K at your local immigration office to keep getting another 30 days indefinitely, I reckon people would complain but end up coughing it up every month rather than flying out and messing around with visa uncertainties. That is how a smart country would cash in on Digital Nomads and all the other under-50 folks who want to stay.

 

Thailand doesnt want those kinds of people to stay though .

That is why they are making more and more visa restrictions , to stop people living long term in Thailand without a valid reason

[donnacha]

20 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

It would be very surprising if Thailand is still in the proverbial abacus era.

Considering their various reporting requirements, extension regime and the copious digital pics they take of us, it would be impossible for all that to be only stored on paper.

Evidence was provided by a poster earlier in this thread who stated he had looked at his record open on a screen in front of an IO.

They must have an all encompassing computer record of us all!

The reason I addressed the question to people with first-hand experience is, as I said, many members here confuse how they believe things should be for how they actually are.

That a poster saw the complete record relating to his one passport - the passport he had just presented to the IO - on a screen tells us nothing about whether they have made the major investment that would be required to cross-reference each visitor's details with the details of ALL other visitors of ALL nationalities. At roughly 40 million visitors per year, and just going back five years, you would need to cross-reference 200 million records.

Computers and computer networks are wonderful, but they are not magic and they are certainly not free. That much processing would be wild. It is far more likely that they simply search against the name, nationality and date of birth presented, pull up any previous records, and make sure you are not on any of their blacklists.

That is why we need to find people with first-hand knowledge within the past six months, because only they, not our guesses, can tell us whether or not it still works.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[kevin612]

Sometime you need to bring more money, to show off only in the airport.

[metempsychotic]

10 hours ago, jsmith22 said:

Fine you caught me. They were just medium nice. Maybe that's why?

whoosh

[donnacha]

12 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Thailand doesnt want those kinds of people to stay though .

No, think about it: they have made it quite clear that they are thrilled to have you stay if you pay for an Elite visa. They have put an actual price sticker on this.

What I am saying is that they would get 20 times more customers if they kept the price high or, even, higher but lowered the commitment period. That might sound as if it would cannabilize their existing sales but I am absolutely convinced that the number of new customers would dwarf their existing numbers, and a lot of those people would ultimately end up shelling out for more than five years anyway.
 

 

12 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That is why they are making more and more visa restrictions , to stop people living long term in Thailand without a valid reason

As it currently stands, the Thai government considers the 500K they charge for the Elite visa to be a valid reason. That equals 8K per month, more than some people get paid in Thailand. Money number one.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[yogi100]

3 hours ago, Yeahbutwhytho said:

Just because you're stuck here doesn't mean others have to be, some have the means to travel 365 days of the year.. you shouldn't be so envious and try be less bitter me thinks

'me thinks'

 

How old are you, three?

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

Bali has many more Chinese now than unwashed backpackers and from my last trip, its more expensive than Thailand

My last trip was March this year so the change has been sudden if that is the case. There were a lot of Indians there, actually my flight from Bangkok was packed with them. I found it more expensive than Pattaya area, Thailand, but not excessively so... I bet it is similar to Phuket. I go quite regularly and am always interested to hear feedback... I just got some recently from an Oz pal who is there right now and for him it is same as always. 

[sanemax]

12 hours ago, donnacha said:

No, think about it: they have made it quite clear that they are thrilled to have you stay if you pay for an Elite visa. They have put an actual price sticker on this.

What I am saying is that they would get 20 times more customers if they kept the price high or, even, higher but lowered the commitment period. That might sound as if it would cannabilize their existing sales but I am absolutely convinced that the number of new customers would dwarf their existing numbers, and a lot of people would ultimately end up shelling out for more than five years anyway.
 

 

As it currently stands, the Thai government considers the 500K (equalling 8K per month) they charge for the Elite visa to be a valid reason. Money number one.

 

Well yes, buy an Elite visa then and you will have the correct visa .

They want to keep it Elite by being expensive and long term , Thailand doesnt want to Elite visa available by the month/year because all the non desirables would stay on it

[tlandtday]

23 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Thailand doesnt want those kinds of people to stay though .

That is why they are making more and more visa restrictions , to stop people living long term in Thailand without a valid reason

not entirely true.  the reason is called a vacation whether it happens for an extended period.  i would be more concerned about the masses of "tourists" many young and broke arriving from china and india and trying to start businesses here and probably never reporting and on overstay.  

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

Why have you been going to Thailand so often ?

That's his business. If he has a visa, he should be allowed in. Seems that the Thais have finally decided they don't want farangs in LOS anymore, and if they keep going this way they'll succeed.

[donnacha]

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Well yes, buy an Elite visa then and you will have the correct visa .

They want to keep it Elite by being expensive and long term , Thailand doesnt want to Elite visa available by the month/year because all the non desirables would stay on it

You are presuming that all the people currently paying for Elite visas are "desirables", perhaps similar to those lovely shiny folks in their marketing material.

There may indeed be some international playboys and jetset models, but the reality is that this type of low-friction paid pathway is mostly purchased by people from high-friction countries such as Nigeria.

Every sh*thole country has people who are richer than their fellow citizens, people who are willing to pay good money to live elsewhere. The vast majority are not staying in five-star hotels, they probably often pay roughly the same amount in rent. The cost of the visa is actually a form of rent that they have no choice but to pay, but it does not mean they are happy to throw even more money around.

The deal that Thailand is making is, literally, "Give us this big wad of money and you can stay here, no questions asked".

I am suggesting they would make more money by widening the program and I don't see that the people forking over 10K on a month-by-month basis would be any less desirable. In fact, I'm pretty sure that most undesirable visitors to Thailand enter on visa waivers.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by donnacha

[sanemax]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's his business. If he has a visa, he should be allowed in. Seems that the Thais have finally decided they don't want farangs in LOS anymore, and if they keep going this way they'll succeed.

If he has a visa that isnt compatible with his reasons for staying , IO are correct to refuse him entry .

  That may be his business , but him divulging that information to us will help us decide whether the IO were correct or not in their decision