sole custody of children for foreigner

[jastheace]

I hope there is someone out there who has experienced this , and can give me some pointers.

I have children with an ex thai partner. I need to sort out my affairs and part of this is to get 'sole custody' of our children. we ( me and children) have now left Thailand, mother remains in Thailand. although married, I have been separated from the mother for 9 years, and the children have stayed with me for all that time. not yet divorced, but there is a simple reason for that. mother seems happy to give me sole custody, I havn't asked or mentioned divorce as yet as I had been hoping that she would raise the matter herself.

now bearing in mind I am now outside of Thailand, and hopefully the mother will be amicable, what do I need to do, I guess a solicitor/ lawyer will need to be involved, but just wanted to prepare myself to what the procedure might be..... 

[happylarry]

You now need to return to Thailand.

If the divorce is to be amicable then your wife and yourself need to make an official agreement about the custody and then go together to an amphur and present them with the agreement for them to register and then they do your divorce.

This is the easiest way so long as your wife is agreeable, otherwise its a court case. Either way you need to come back to Thailand, beats me why you didnt sort it out before you left.

[Mattd]

@happylarry is correct, you need to return to Thailand and sit down with your wife and discuss a divorce, you need to draft a divorce agreement that you both agree upon, which includes who has sole custody of the children. A lawyer can help with the wording of this, however, it is not an absolute requirement to use one so long as everything is amicable, you need 3 copies of the agreement, which should be both in English and Thai, 1 each for you and your wife and one is lodged with the Amphur.

I did this exact process in 2015.

[jastheace]

55 minutes ago, Mattd said:

@happylarry is correct, you need to return to Thailand and sit down with your wife and discuss a divorce, you need to draft a divorce agreement that you both agree upon, which includes who has sole custody of the children. A lawyer can help with the wording of this, however, it is not an absolute requirement to use one so long as everything is amicable, you need 3 copies of the agreement, which should be both in English and Thai, 1 each for you and your wife and one is lodged with the Amphur.

I did this exact process in 2015.

@Mattd thanks for your reply. despite being separated for 9 years, 'wife' is not happy with a divorce. I havn't asked her "why not?", I havn't said that I want one, only that if she wanted to I would agree, I was hoping she would meet a new guy and ask me for divorce. I know money speaks, but I was hoping to avoid a large payout (especially as having to buy house, goods for new house and car etc... for us ) and also avoid travelling back to LOS, another expense could do without. 

I understand that that is your experience, and thanks again for sharing.

I will look into finding lawyer in LOs I can discuss this with.

 

[jastheace]

1 hour ago, happylarry said:

This is the easiest way so long as your wife is agreeable, otherwise its a court case. Either way you need to come back to Thailand, beats me why you didnt sort it out before you left.

there is a good reason why I left without sorting it out first, but I do not feel it is right to discuss on open forum

[scorecard]

Have you got evidence of the fact the children have been with you for many years? e.g. stamps out of Thailand in their passports, kids registrations / school reports in your home country, kids medical reports in your home country. Photos in your home country and at home in your home country, wife obviously not in the photos, kids with grandparents home in your country? And more?  Copies of various expenses for the kids and proof that you alone paid (e.g. credit card payments, credit card in your name, internet banking transfers, account in your name only).

 

Did your wife sign any documents to allow the children to initially leave Thailand with you (but not her)? Did you keep a copy?  

 

Just guessing this might help if custody goes to court etc.

Edited October 1, 2019 by scorecard

[Preacher]

As the parents are still married, sole custody can only be part of a divorce. Exceptions being things like the other parent being insane or in jail for a long time. Not sure a person can give up parental rights volenterily under Thai law.

 

The laws of your own country might have different laws by which you would be able to file for sole custody in your home country despite being still married.

 

But otherwise a power of attorney from the mom would do the trick (till she recinds the power of attorney).

[Skallywag]

On 9/26/2019 at 3:08 PM, jastheace said:

. not yet divorced, but there is a simple reason for that. mother seems happy to give me sole custody, I havn't asked or mentioned divorce as yet as I had been hoping that she would raise the matter herself.

now bearing in mind I am now outside of Thailand, and hopefully the mother will be amicable, what do I need to do

I would get divorced ASAP.  

You realize a husband is responsible for debts incurred by a wife.  She could borrow, gamble, build a house, then do default on the payments and the bank may go after your assets to pay the debt.

Maybe Thailand is different in this aspect, but I would check as could be much more of a problem than custody of children at this point

[offset]

I think to get sole custody though the court would be difficult for you because it is a 2 stage procedure you have to have an interview with Children's Welfare, then about a month later you will have to go to court so it might take at least a 2 visit to Thailand

 

The court procedure is not difficult to do if the mother agrees but In all it takes about 3 months to complete

 

I would suggest to your wife that it would cost you money for a lawyer and if she would have a divorce you would give her the money that you would save

[justin case]

On 9/27/2019 at 3:32 PM, happylarry said:

You now need to return to Thailand.

If the divorce is to be amicable then your wife and yourself need to make an official agreement about the custody and then go together to an amphur and present them with the agreement for them to register and then they do your divorce.

This is the easiest way so long as your wife is agreeable, otherwise its a court case. Either way you need to come back to Thailand, beats me why you didnt sort it out before you left.

why

 

On 9/27/2019 at 5:18 PM, jastheace said:

there is a good reason why I left without sorting it out first, but I do not feel it is right to discuss on open forum

 

why wake sleeping dogs?

 

if you have no business in thailand, don't come back

 

what about the case of DESERTION  ... you did not see each other more than 3 years = grounds for divorce

 

but if you have no business in Thailand, only lawyers will get RICHER from this

 

 

 

[justin case]

the only way in thailand, as a farang, to get sole custody of your half thai kids 

 

is IF YOU PAY YOUR POOR THAI WIFE to buy the kids for her

 

otherwise it will be shared custody

 

unless she "raped or beaten your children in the hospital" and you went to police to file complain against her at that time

 

in case you ran with the children, without her permission, you will go to jail for kidnapping

 

think about this FREE ADVISE before stepping a foot in Thailand ever again

 

[metempsychotic]

3 minutes ago, justin case said:

the only way in thailand, as a farang, to get sole custody of your half thai kids 

 

is IF YOU PAY YOUR POOR THAI WIFE to buy the kids for her

 

otherwise it will be shared custody

 

unless she "raped or beaten your children in the hospital" and you went to police to file complain against her at that time

 

in case you ran with the children, without her permission, you will go to jail for kidnapping

 

think about this FREE ADVISE before stepping a foot in Thailand ever again

 

your "FREE ADVISE" is absolute nonsense.

like the labour department who is decidedly biased toward the employee irrespective of nationality, the thai family court is very much in the best interests of the children and will decide in favor of the father, irrespective of nationality if it is demonstrated to be in the children's best interests. 

if the wife is on board so much the better.

if it can be demonstrated he raised the children and wife has not been involved for 10 years, it is unlikely they will alter that situation.

this does presuppose the children have been with him with her agreement and he has not run with them. 

 

[offset]

I found that the Children's Court was only concerned about my sons welfare when I got sole custody over him, it did not seem to concern them about my nationality although I was not married to his mother but I had been looking after him for over 1 year alone

 

[justin case]

On 10/2/2019 at 2:49 PM, metempsychotic said:

your "FREE ADVISE" is absolute nonsense.

like the labour department who is decidedly biased toward the employee irrespective of nationality, the thai family court is very much in the best interests of the children and will decide in favor of the father, irrespective of nationality if it is demonstrated to be in the children's best interests. 

if the wife is on board so much the better.

if it can be demonstrated he raised the children and wife has not been involved for 10 years, it is unlikely they will alter that situation.

this does presuppose the children have been with him with her agreement and he has not run with them. 

 

I tried sole custody for my child and my lawyer and so called unpartial mediator in court pushed for shared for reasons above or lack of

 

so I don't speak about hypothetical reasons read on x,y,z website that might this or that...

 

if you read between the lines, he left with the children without permission of the mother...try going thru immigration without consent letter and phone call to mother ... well, unless the child was 15+ years of age at the time

 

it is a crime of kidnapping...the poor mother probably did not have money nor connection to pay for a lawyer in his home country, hence, so problems for him...

 

welcome to thailand, where you and me farangs have NO rights

 

my ex is supposed to do some stuff from court order, she does not follow, she might eventually be fined 500 BAHT, 500 baht ... new court is 100.000+ baht and might end up in absolutely nothing in my favor

 

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by justin case

[jastheace]

58 minutes ago, justin case said:

 

if you read between the lines, he left with the children without permission of the mother...try going thru immigration without consent letter and phone call to mother ... well, unless the child was 15+ years of age at the time

 

I can not comment obviously, however, facts are we are in the uk now. mother remains in Thailand. she is NOW aware of events, and is ok with things so far. 

I was hoping that someone, preferably a uk resident, had gone through a similar experience, and could share that with me. 

last messages with mother were she is happy to go along with sole custody or guardianship, but not a divorce. I have contacted local (town where I live now in the uk) solicitor/ lawyer and they have passed me to another, to another, to another and so on. currently have been given details of a solicitor in central London (by no means local), where fees for a 'chat' are £££££££.

I know my situation is not straightforward, but there has to be a fairly uncomplicated way to sort it out. I will message a lawyer in Thailand, as maybe if I have an agreement signed by mother and translated and maybe notarised, maybe that will a be a start maybe, just maybe.

after the guardianship issue was sorted, I would then try for divorce, but the mother I feel may cause problems.

on my side are length of time of separation, a case of abandonment, and she has had another child since, so proof of adultery ?

so that's it in a nutshell, anyone else been through similar ???

a long shot for TVF I know, just thought it would be worth a try.

[jasonsamui55]

Divorce on International level is easy. Either party can file any time they want wherever they are resident, whether it’s your home country or another. Just hire a local divorce lawyer wherever you currently are officially resident and file for divorce. If she doesn’t contest it, then a decree is issued and divorce including custody is finalized. I’ve live in Hong Kong for many years and seen countless divorce cases where one party or the other moves to another country and files for divorce there. It’s all very common.

[justin case]

On 10/5/2019 at 8:52 AM, jasonsamui55 said:

Divorce on International level is easy. Either party can file any time they want wherever they are resident, whether it’s your home country or another. Just hire a local divorce lawyer wherever you currently are officially resident and file for divorce. If she doesn’t contest it, then a decree is issued and divorce including custody is finalized. I’ve live in Hong Kong for many years and seen countless divorce cases where one party or the other moves to another country and files for divorce there. It’s all very common.

sure, if no children involved

 

if he show up in thailand, who knows what will happen, probably she takes the kids, hide them in xyz and he will never see them again, plus more than possible charges for kidnapping as there is no time limit

 

whatever "she" says right now, might be to lure you into her land, game, ...

[Just Weird]

On 10/2/2019 at 1:17 PM, Skallywag said:

You realize a husband is responsible for debts incurred by a wife.

That is not correct as far as her personal debts are concerned.

[jasonsamui55]

19 hours ago, justin case said:

sure, if no children involved

 

if he show up in thailand, who knows what will happen, probably she takes the kids, hide them in xyz and he will never see them again, plus more than possible charges for kidnapping as there is no time limit

 

whatever "she" says right now, might be to lure you into her land, game, ...

Even with children. He can file in his country of residency. She can counter sue to get it moved to Thailand. Then the courts will sort it out. As Thailand courts and laws heavily favour Thais over others in most all respects, I’m sure they’d try to move it to thailand May even fail to recognize a foreign ruling, but they are signatories to international conventions on conflicts of laws and theoretically should honour a foreign ruling, not that they actually would. Best way to avoid that is avoid Thailand territorial jurisdiction and stick with international rules that most every other country would apply.

[nongkhaidude]

I have sole custody of my daughter and went thru the whole process including even her and I flying overseas with no problem though they looked at all documents carefully.

 

What Larry said is exactly right you need to do what ever it takes to convince your ex to do it thru the Amphur as if you go to court it will be a long process and expensive.

 

I used a girl from a local law firm in Phuket to do most of the paper work and then I did a lot of the running around myself.

 

The people at the Amphur were very helpful and I am so happy it is behind me