While Trump rages, McConnell says he would have to hold Senate impeachment trial

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, jcsmith said:

Even per Fox news, there is exactly zero miles of new border wall construction. What has been constructed was stuff that was already slated to be done under Obama, reparations and maintenance. You should probably take a look at the employment numbers and trends because they are just continuing what they were doing under Obama. You won't be able to tell where one stopped and the other started. Economy wise it's gone the way it typically does under a republican president. Cut taxes on the rich, deregulate, see short term gains, followed by a recession before the end of office. 

 

The second part of your comments is pretty naive. People who love the country? So you're equating people who don't support your views don't love the country? Or the common Fox news driven can't accept the results of the election... A blanket excuse to try to excuse any crazy act Trump does and pretend that it's normal.

So it was a good idea to build the fence when barry was king but Trump takes over and it's He wants a wall, he must be racist....Got it.

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

Reuters has really gone downhill. This is nothing but complete fabrication. It worse than Rep Adam Schiff's 'parady'.

You do realise that this is not Reuters "raising concerns" don't you? This is Reuters reporting that "the whistleblower report raised concerns." Which is absolutely and undeniably what the whistleblower report did.

[Becker]

49 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

So it was a good idea to build the fence when barry was king but Trump takes over and it's He wants a wall, he must be racist....Got it.

Fences have been in place in certain areas for a long time and that's got nothing to do with Trump's idiotic "big, beautiful" wall from coast to cost. Oh, and it was going to be paid for by the Mexicans. BTW, how's that coming along???

 

[spidermike007]

Trump has dug this hole for himself, through massive corruption, an absolute unwillingness to obey the law, his insatiable desire to win at all costs, and his total incompetence. In addition using guys like Raging Rudy, does not help his cause one iota, but rather has the opposite effect, of incriminating him even more. That combined with always picking from the bottom of the barrel, when it comes to his appointments, shows how ill equipped he is for this job.

 

At first I was opposed to impeachment. But, the more Trump fights back, the more heinous his statements, the more defensive he gets, the more obvious it is that he is covering up something that is both incriminating, and huge. He is going down one way or another. I seriously doubt he will win the next election. Frankly, I think Justin Bieber could beat him at this point. I think the average American is fatigued, and tired of his daily diatribes, battles, tears, weak and bitter complaints, and blame. He really needs to get a grip. He is becoming increasingly unhinged, and is demonstrating to the world, that he is a very unstable non genius. 

 

I say get rid of him. If not through impeachment, then let the SNDY finally get that conviction they have been seeking for 35 years now. Prison baby. Get used to wearing orange, your true color. 

[AgMech Cowboy]

I'll not bore you with quoting any passages again or any of the vile or negative comments, but I hope you'll give this commentary a complete listening. I'm opposed to the impeachment and globalism and so is Steve Hilton.

 

 

[riclag]

19 minutes ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

I'll not bore you with quoting any passages again or any of the vile or negative comments, but I hope you'll give this commentary a complete listening. I'm opposed to the impeachment and globalism and so is Steve Hilton.

 

 

I'm in favor of impeachment! I want it to go to the end of its process.

Finally the legal team together with the  supreme court and the opposition of Mr. Trump will be heard on the Senate floor!

Edited October 1, 2019 by riclag

[joecoolfrog]

7 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

Imagine that Trump does NOT survive this ... his supporters may well cause a lot of trouble in the US . They think that Trump is the first president ever who stays on their side , and they are a lot of people ....

They caused enough trouble by helping to elect him in the first place. The wise choice would be to reflect on their mistake and avoid shysters in the future.

[Monomial]

 

No, it hasn't reached a tipping point.

 

And for a very simple reason. You have to ask yourself "What has been happening in the USA over the last 50 years that created an environment where a demagogue like Trump was allowed to flourish?"  You can ask those same questions about Nazi Germany, and in fact, many historians do.  Demagogues are a result of a situation, not the cause of it. They simply exploit it and magnify it.

 

Unless and until you correct the underlying issue that a demagogue exploits, the problem doesn't disappear. Trump still enjoys enormous support in the USA and the Republicans won't vote against him.  Short of a war or the breakup of the USA, the only way to reverse the current trend is to address the underlying problems. And nobody from either party wants to do that. They all benefit from the status quo.

 

So this is all just surface posturing and theater. No conviction or resignation is forthcoming. And even if you do somehow get rid of Trump, the American people will simply elect an even worse demagogue next time.

 

Nope. This is the new normal. Get used to it.

 

 

[Rimmer]

Troll post removed.

[joecoolfrog]

7 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Hi Samui, good morning. You hit the nail on the head, well not the horrifying part. The other one about liking Trump's policies and results. Do I think he could stop tweeting and keep his mouth shut? yes Is he an <deleted>? yeah probably. 

 

And, yes I'll take Trump with all his faults over any Democrat any day.

I consider this to be a refreshingly honest post which im sure reflects the opinion of many Republican voters.

I dont however see how one can view , with the exception of the economy , Trump's policies to have been a success.

In short any fiscaly driven POTUS could have driven through tax cuts ( for better or worse ) and one of just average ability would have avoided the rancour , detrius and downright dishonesty associated with the current administration.

Lets be entirely frank , Trump has not made America great again , the very opposite in fact.

Yes the last point is my opinion , but it seems to be shared by an ever increasing segment of the US electorate.

[spidermike007]

52 minutes ago, riclag said:

I'm in favor of impeachment! I want it to go to the end of its process.

Finally the legal team together with the  supreme court and the opposition of Mr. Trump will be heard on the Senate floor!

Yep. And the $35 street urchins will have to look at the American people, and explain why they support this crime lord, are not questioning ANYTHING he does or says, and why all honor, integrity, and the right of law has gone out the window. These soulless individuals have alot to account for. They are all as guilty as Trump. Their cooperation, and their complicity in this gangland administration, is a burden they will carry for life. MAGA. Make America's great allies into enemies. Make America gain annihilation. 

 

Anything but restore the once great nation of America. If anything, this fool is precipitating the decline, that was already well under way. 

 

I say impeach him. At the very minimum it is causing the most thin skinned man in politics to completely lose his mind, footing, game plan, and equilibrium. Pelosi has always been his nemesis. He has no idea how to deal with a smart, powerful, clever woman. He is making himself look more and more foolish by the day, and I do believe the American people, including a small percentage of his supporters, are getting worn out by his daily nonsense.

 

Also, what I wonder is, how on earth is he doing any governing? He is spending all of his time tweeting, meeting with his legal team, and watching the news. Where is there any time left for him to do his job? Not that he ever devoted that much time to it anyway. But, now it is at an extreme level of venom and daily spewing. The man is running scared. He should be. He should be very scared. His crimes are being unearthed and disclosed for all the world to see. If anyone did not know who he is before, they are starting to get an idea. He is Don Donald.

Edited October 1, 2019 by spidermike007

[joecoolfrog]

7 hours ago, animalmagic said:

Welcome to the world of 'Brexit'

Indeed there are many similarities between Brexit and Trump's election.

A great many people feeling ignored and disenfranchised , keen to give the establishment a good kicking.

The perfect environment for a popularist to thrive , the electorate ignoring history and swallowing the sugar coated pill.

Its not a question of whether these populist fads will come good in the end , we know they will unravel and crash.

Its simply a question of whether the Lemmings pause at the cliff top , or plunge onwards to the death.

[joecoolfrog]

4 hours ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

Reuters has really gone downhill. This is nothing but complete fabrication. It worse than Rep Adam Schiff's 'parady'.

Yep and this mornings news that Trump played the same game with the Aussie PM is also a fabrication...right ?

For goodness sake wake up , nobody falls for the ' fake news ' narrative anymore , Trump has been thoroughly exposed !

[Saint Nick]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Hmmm. IIRC, that would be when Bill lied to the American government and people? He got away with it because the Democrat majority in the Senate didn't turn on him. More importantly they, by this action, made it clear honesty, ethics and decent behavior were irrelevant to them.

 

The Democracts are going after Trump, as they have been since day one, because he prevented their anointed Hilary, who they cheated into the POTUS election, from the presidency they believe rightfully was hers. 

 

All, as you say, a matter of spin. One only has to watch shiffty Schiff spinning words, using weaselly words, and bending reality.

 

Trump might be all manner of things, but let's not pretend the Dems are any better.

I don't know exactly what you are on about, but Bill Clinton lied (no question) about consensual sex with a subordinate!

Bad...but come on!

In this latest case alone, Trump lied to the American public, committed a crime. pressured a foreign country to do his bidding, used tax-payer money to win personal gain...and that is all documented in a memo, that he himself released!

On top of that, he and his aides tried to hide the transcript of the call on a special server, so it was not available to the usually involved people, because they knew, that this transcript was bad!

REALLY BAD!

 

What is there even to discuss?

And this is just the latest in a number of illegalities, crimes, cover ups etc.

 

Bill Clinton my behind!

[animalmagic]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

Indeed there are many similarities between Brexit and Trump's election.

A great many people feeling ignored and disenfranchised , keen to give the establishment a good kicking.

The perfect environment for a popularist to thrive , the electorate ignoring history and swallowing the sugar coated pill.

Its not a question of whether these populist fads will come good in the end , we know they will unravel and crash.

Its simply a question of whether the Lemmings pause at the cliff top , or plunge onwards to the death.

Very well put.  Having just watched a video of a HK police officer shooting a demonstrator in the chest from two inches, my money is on the lemmings!

[Jingthing]

 
No, it hasn't reached a tipping point.
 
And for a very simple reason. You have to ask yourself "What has been happening in the USA over the last 50 years that created an environment where a demagogue like Trump was allowed to flourish?"  You can ask those same questions about Nazi Germany, and in fact, many historians do.  Demagogues are a result of a situation, not the cause of it. They simply exploit it and magnify it.
 
Unless and until you correct the underlying issue that a demagogue exploits, the problem doesn't disappear. Trump still enjoys enormous support in the USA and the Republicans won't vote against him.  Short of a war or the breakup of the USA, the only way to reverse the current trend is to address the underlying problems. And nobody from either party wants to do that. They all benefit from the status quo.
 
So this is all just surface posturing and theater. No conviction or resignation is forthcoming. And even if you do somehow get rid of Trump, the American people will simply elect an even worse demagogue next time.
 
Nope. This is the new normal. Get used to it.
 
 

No. NEVER!

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[johnnybangkok]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So it was a good idea to build the fence when barry was king but Trump takes over and it's He wants a wall, he must be racist....Got it.

Off topic but more importantly, debated to death.

I'm not going to go into why everything you say here is just wrong from the fact that President Barack Obama (Barry to you) built what he did to keep rabid republicans happy because of The Secure Fence Act of 2006 (a George W. Bush initiative), to the fact that Trumps wall is just costly, ineffective and unnecessary being that there's already 700 miles there thanks to Obama (yes he actually built more than Trump ever has or importantly, ever will). The wall isn't just the reason there's also when he was sued for not allowing blacks into his apartments in 1973, to ordering black people off the floors of his casino's in 1980, to inserting himself in the Central Park 5 case in 89, to right up to modern times with calling white supremacists 'good people' to in September announcing he was dropping the amount of refugees allowed into the US from 110,000 to just 18,000. 

The wall is just one of many, many, many, many reasons we think Trump is racist. 

[chokrai]

14 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Interesting times, just imagine if Trump survives this. Man oh man, would that be a hoot.

Trump is having a hoot yanking the moronic Democrats chain. 

[Becker]

5 minutes ago, chokrai said:

Trump is having a hoot yanking the moronic Democrats chain. 

And in other news from the Twilight Zone.....

[Kelsall]

13 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I find the two posts above (@EVENKEEL and @Kelsall) to be fascinating, instructive and horrifying.

 

it is fascinating to me that one could comment on the current situation of the occupant of the White House and not include a word on ethics, values, principles or morals. Has American politics really become an ethical wasteland where the pursuit of power is an end itself, without any need for scruples along the way? I find this most often in the debate around judges, especially Supreme Court judges. It has been my experience that the 'Right' wants judges in order to get a favourable ruling (in their eyes) on abortion. Now, I respect that some people feel very strongly about abortion (even though I respectfully disagree), but does their desire to see the practice outlawed come with any ethics/principles attached? Is it worth running over all other factors just to get what they want? Do the ends justify the means?

 

It is instructive reading these pages on the US 'Right'. With very few exceptions, all the arguments that I see coming from that side are generally negative, devoid of fact, information and/or debate. Rather, it is a process of identifying someone/something they don't like (a 'Left-wing radical', a 'Feminazi', a 'SJW with pink hair', etc) and then demonizing that person/thing; rarely do I see/read a reasoned argument as to why a course of action is valid or not. Are there not any positive arguments for Trump's policies?

 

Finally, it is horrifying that in the US the level of political discourse has devolved to the point whereby one merely states that he/she is a member of a certain 'tribe' and does not feel a need to put forth any more discussion. Are there not any reasons why Trump supporters like something? Is it good enough to say that a 'SJW' doesn't agree, thus it is good? Are there not any positive arguments for what you want to see?

 

A TVF member made the point to me the other day that there are many people who like Trump's policies/actions without liking the man, and I said 'okay'. But, on further thought, I don't think it is 'okay'. To me, you cannot separate the message/actions from the messenger and wash your hands of responsibility. Any leader, no matter how evil, does some good things; how can one support all the terrible things, but clap loudly at the good things, and sleep at night? Is there not a moral/ethical view of Trump?

 

So, back to the news article above. I think all Senators MUST vote when the Articles of Impeachment come from the House of Representatives (and, they will). Senators, especially Republican Senators, you have to state for the record if you still believe in the principles, values, ethics and oaths you have espoused. And remember, your vote will be tattooed (proverbially) on your forehead until the day you die.

 

Comments?

If it comes to it, Senators will vote to convict or not convict based on what their constituents want.  The Trump haters are going to have to persuade millions of Trump supporters to come over to their side. So start playing nice.  You need us, but we don't need you.

[chokrai]

13 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I find the two posts above (@EVENKEEL and @Kelsall) to be fascinating, instructive and horrifying.

 

it is fascinating to me that one could comment on the current situation of the occupant of the White House and not include a word on ethics, values, principles or morals. Has American politics really become an ethical wasteland where the pursuit of power is an end itself, without any need for scruples along the way? I find this most often in the debate around judges, especially Supreme Court judges. It has been my experience that the 'Right' wants judges in order to get a favourable ruling (in their eyes) on abortion. Now, I respect that some people feel very strongly about abortion (even though I respectfully disagree), but does their desire to see the practice outlawed come with any ethics/principles attached? Is it worth running over all other factors just to get what they want? Do the ends justify the means?

 

It is instructive reading these pages on the US 'Right'. With very few exceptions, all the arguments that I see coming from that side are generally negative, devoid of fact, information and/or debate. Rather, it is a process of identifying someone/something they don't like (a 'Left-wing radical', a 'Feminazi', a 'SJW with pink hair', etc) and then demonizing that person/thing; rarely do I see/read a reasoned argument as to why a course of action is valid or not. Are there not any positive arguments for Trump's policies?

 

Finally, it is horrifying that in the US the level of political discourse has devolved to the point whereby one merely states that he/she is a member of a certain 'tribe' and does not feel a need to put forth any more discussion. Are there not any reasons why Trump supporters like something? Is it good enough to say that a 'SJW' doesn't agree, thus it is good? Are there not any positive arguments for what you want to see?

 

A TVF member made the point to me the other day that there are many people who like Trump's policies/actions without liking the man, and I said 'okay'. But, on further thought, I don't think it is 'okay'. To me, you cannot separate the message/actions from the messenger and wash your hands of responsibility. Any leader, no matter how evil, does some good things; how can one support all the terrible things, but clap loudly at the good things, and sleep at night? Is there not a moral/ethical view of Trump?

 

So, back to the news article above. I think all Senators MUST vote when the Articles of Impeachment come from the House of Representatives (and, they will). Senators, especially Republican Senators, you have to state for the record if you still believe in the principles, values, ethics and oaths you have espoused. And remember, your vote will be tattooed (proverbially) on your forehead until the day you die.

 

Comments?

Do you not understand that we think that your side is evil? We think that Obama, Clinton and most of the other Democrats have no ethics or morals at all. I could spend all day linking to articles about how corrupt they are but you would not read them or believe them so what is the point. Better you just keep watching the lunatics on CNN and MSNBC to confirm your bias.

[stevenl]

18 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

If it comes to it, Senators will vote to convict or not convict based on what their constituents want.  The Trump haters are going to have to persuade millions of Trump supporters to come over to their side. So start playing nice.  You need us, but we don't need you.

Vote on what constituents want in stead of the case at hand? ????

[Becker]

20 minutes ago, chokrai said:

Do you not understand that we think that your side is evil? We think that Obama, Clinton and most of the other Democrats have no ethics or morals at all. 

Says a guy who spends a lot of time defending a COMPLETELY amoral person!

The reality disconnect really is of epic proportions.

[johnnybangkok]

35 minutes ago, chokrai said:

Do you not understand that we think that your side is evil? We think that Obama, Clinton and most of the other Democrats have no ethics or morals at all. I could spend all day linking to articles about how corrupt they are but you would not read them or believe them so what is the point. Better you just keep watching the lunatics on CNN and MSNBC to confirm your bias.

But, but......Trump?

[Jingthing]

40 minutes ago, chokrai said:

Do you not understand that we think that your side is evil? We think that Obama, Clinton and most of the other Democrats have no ethics or morals at all. I could spend all day linking to articles about how corrupt they are but you would not read them or believe them so what is the point. Better you just keep watching the lunatics on CNN and MSNBC to confirm your bias.

Yeah I understand that. I think that's cray cray though. 

[Slip]

43 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

If it comes to it, Senators will vote to convict or not convict based on what their constituents want.  The Trump haters are going to have to persuade millions of Trump supporters to come over to their side. So start playing nice.  You need us, but we don't need you.

Really?  The whole process of impeachment is a popularity contest? Is impeachment not even slightly about whether the orange foghorn breaks the law or not?  He was right when he said he could shoot people in the street then.  The U.S is more buggered than it seems.   

[rabas]

5 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

No, it hasn't reached a tipping point.

 

And for a very simple reason. You have to ask yourself "What has been happening in the USA over the last 50 years that created an environment where a demagogue like Trump was allowed to flourish?"  You can ask those same questions about Nazi Germany, and in fact, many historians do.  Demagogues are a result of a situation, not the cause of it. They simply exploit it and magnify it.

 

Unless and until you correct the underlying issue that a demagogue exploits, the problem doesn't disappear. Trump still enjoys enormous support in the USA and the Republicans won't vote against him.  Short of a war or the breakup of the USA, the only way to reverse the current trend is to address the underlying problems. And nobody from either party wants to do that. They all benefit from the status quo.

 

So this is all just surface posturing and theater. No conviction or resignation is forthcoming. And even if you do somehow get rid of Trump, the American people will simply elect an even worse demagogue next time.

 

Nope. This is the new normal. Get used to it.

And nobody from either party wants to do that. They all benefit from the status quo.

 

Although true, politicians have less control than the powers above them who represent the wealth and real power.  You know that the healthcare industry alone is nearly the size of the entire US Federal budget, not to mention 7 times the size of all defence spending.  

 

Just yesterday Reuters reported that the top 1% yet once again gained as the rest of the people continued their steep economic decline. And, not a peep from the general population or main stream media  as they continue screaming about everything from bathrooms to bibles and of course Trump (previously Obama). The power brokers are the ones benefiting from the social division. There is no real reason both sides (us little ones) can't work together except for the powers that be and media feeding the echo chamber. 

 

So I don't see an exact parallel to 1930s Germany.

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by rabas

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, rabas said:

And nobody from either party wants to do that. They all benefit from the status quo.

 

Although true, politicians have less control than the powers above them who represent the wealth and real power.  You know that the healthcare industry alone is nearly the size of the entire US Federal budget, not to mention 7 times the size of all defence spending.  

 

Just yesterday Reuters reported that the top 1% yet once again gained as the rest of the people continued their steep economic decline. And, not a peep from the general population or main stream media  as they continue screaming about everything from bathrooms to bibles and of course Trump (previously Obama). The power brokers are the ones benefiting from the social division. There is no real reason both sides (us little ones) can't work together except for the powers that be and media feeding the echo chamber. 

 

So I don't see an exact parallel to 1930s Germany.

 

 

 

You think Trump's tax policies helped with the 1% gaining?

[joecoolfrog]

Reading some of these posts one understands how monsters like Hitler stayed in power . 

[rabas]

27 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You think Trump's tax policies helped with the 1% gaining?

 

The rich 1% have been gaining on the rest of us continually since the 1980s come Democrat or Republican. Steep rise during Clinton's term. So I don't think it's a Trump thing.  See what I mean about echo-chambers? Can't see the forest for the trees.