Is slow driving more dangerous than fast driving?

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Vacuum said:

You're right, but we are not living in a "civilized world", perhaps you picked the wrong country to live in?

Yawn - give it a rest, you're creating an argument out of nothing and in doing so missed the initial point I made which was... the slow car in front, slowing further created the hazard. 

 

Is slow driving more dangerous than fast? - both pose a hazard, driving at speeds significantly different (faster or slower) from the surround traffic presents danger.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, GarryP said:

26 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Quite an apt name: Vaccum - someone who things they live in a vacuum. 

 

I'll explain it to you: In a civilized world its common to give way to someone who indicates, letting them out in front of you rather than continuing to accelerate and aggressively blocking them.. This is just an example of the difference between driving on the expressways in the UK and in Bangkok. 

 

Why the hell should he [give way]??? I guess you think why the hell should you hold the door open for another person passing through behind you, or why the hell should you say thank you when a waitress brings your food etc... 'Why they hell should.....'  You are the problem and people like you cause animosity in the modern world. 

 

 

 

Took my driving test on Sunday (passed), and in the pre-tests this issue came up a few times. If someone ahead of you indicates to move into your lane, you should slow down and let them in provided that the distance between vehicles is sufficient to safely do so. 

 

Yep, thats what 'should' happen - no one here drives by the rules, assertiveness and in some cases outright aggression on the roads is more common than courtesy. Yet when considering the nature of the traffic the lack of road rage here in Bangkok is astounding and a testament to the patience of the Thai driving populace (or at the very least shows that many understand or believe others to have weapons in their cars !).

 

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by richard_smith237

[Vacuum]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

the initial point I made which was... the slow car in front, slowing further created the hazard. 

Use your brakes to slow down, wait for an opportunity to pass the slow car in front of you. But no, you expect everyone in the far right line to slow down so you could get into that line.

 

[FarFlungFalang]

On 10/2/2019 at 9:05 PM, brokenbone said:

the scariest thing by a wide margin imo is the fookin

different set of rules various drivers adhere to

Rules?Why on earth would anybody adhere to any rules whilst driving in Thailand?That right there seems to be the problem.

[JoeW]

Slow or fast, it's the difference in speed that is dangerous.

[MartinL]

26 minutes ago, GarryP said:

... this issue came up a few times. If someone ahead of you indicates to move into your lane, you should slow down and let them in provided that the distance between vehicles is sufficient to safely do so.   

Stupid rule. They never remember the "provided that the distance between vehicles is sufficient to safely do so" bit. They only remember "If I indicate, he must slow down and let me in". It gives any idiot in the lane to your left that you're overtaking carte blanche to indicate when you're almost alongside and expect you to stand on the anchors to slow down for them - never mind the bloke behind you who isn't prepared for you to brake for a reason that might not be apparent to him - to change lanes and then say "But I indicated. He just refused to slow down to let me in so I hit him. Not my fault".

 

I see it all the time - big trucks indicate (often only one or two 'flashes' and even then often obscured by filthy rear light lenses) when you're preparing to overtaking them on the right then immediately pulling out giving you almost nowhere to go. Another nutter overtakes you on the left, indicates right when he's alongside you (even though, in that situation, it's almost impossible to see his indicator since it's outside the field of view of your wing mirror) and then proceeds to force his way into that safety gap you purposely left between you and the car in front. Since he's going faster than either you or the car in front, he has to hit the brakes HARD as he gets into the gap, forcing you to hit the brakes and the bloke behind .......

 

As I said, stupid law.

[richard_smith237]

57 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Use your brakes to slow down, wait for an opportunity to pass the slow car in front of you. But no, you expect everyone in the far right line to slow down so you could get into that line.

 

Still hungry for the argument eh? I expect 'everyone in the far right lane to slow down' ??? Where did I write that? you made that assumption and you know what happens when you assume.

 

I don't expect anything on the roads in Thailand, however, a little curtesy wouldn't go amiss and 'some' of the aggressive drivers accelerating to 'block gaps' could drive with greater curtesy.

 

If you've noticed, there is greater propensity for drivers in Thailand to accelerate to block a gap than to continue on with their normal speed and give way without changing speed at all. 

 

If you haven't seen this, you haven't been driving here for very long. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sunderland]

Is walking into a wall more dangerous than sprinting into a wall?

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Sunderland said:

Is walking into a wall more dangerous than sprinting into a wall?

That depends if the wall is moving at 100-120kmh along with all the other traffic... 

[CGW]

On 10/2/2019 at 7:00 PM, pgrahmm said:

Best to match the general flow.....

Driving in most places in the world I would agree, here no, driving with the flow means you have some dick driving one inch from your rear end! If you can get away from the bunched up traffic you generally have the road to yourself - until you come up to the next bunched group!

They were supposed to be enforcing "lane discipline" - yet another law the "Police" choose to ignore, as usual they have done nothing, you still have selfish inconsiderate drivers with minimum skills that are only capable of using one lane of the highway, the outside lane off course!

A lot of the time you would be better off with a left hand drive car here, making undertaking slow vehicles easier!

[NokNokJoke]

The danger is from the drivers of the other vehicles, not a slower vehicle driving legally. Many us states have split speed limits for trucks and cars, and frequently a lower minimum speed limit that is required to be maintained. I have over 4 million miles experience driving large, slow, trucks. I have been rear ended by cars. They weren't paying attention. One dumbass decapitated himself running under my trailer. He was doing twice the posted speed limit. I guess I was the slower, dangerous vehicle? To boot, it was daylight.

 
I guess I wasn't paying attention the other day, or rather, I thought I was but I still had a near miss. 
 
On the Expressway I was checking my mirror and doing a shoulder check (blind spot) to pull from the middle lane to the right most lane. The car in front was doing about 60km (not that slow), I knew my approach speed as I check my mirror and shoulder checked, but I couldn't change lanes due to the approaching car in the outside lane, which, regardless of my indication signal clearly showed no intension of slowing or checking his speed to allow me to change lanes in front of him.
 
The car in front suddenly slowed further (it was a battered, beaten up old pickup), it was probably doing 40kmh by this time - I had to emergency brake. 
 
 
In short: Any vehicle who's speed varies significantly from the surrounding traffic poses a danger. On the Expressway where the speed limits are 120kmh, everyone should be doing 110 to 120 kmh where traffic permits. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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[Henricus]

On 10/2/2019 at 7:15 PM, CharlieH said:

with just a CD

sorry but they use DVD 

[RBOP]

Statically speeding kills more.  

[topt]

On 10/4/2019 at 1:22 PM, richard_smith237 said:

On the Expressway where the speed limits are 120kmh, everyone should be doing 110 to 120 kmh where traffic permits. 

Sorry disagree. Regularly use the 7 and most times now drive between 90 and 100 or so - since I discovered it makes nearly a 15% difference in fuel consumption........and I am by no means normally the slowest car/truck.

Not only that the legal limit for coaches and lorries is lower anyhow. 

[HHTel]

On 10/3/2019 at 12:33 PM, johng said:

 

 

If you do a U turn in a country that drives on the right then yes you end up in the "slow" lane...but In Thailand you U turn from "fast lane" into "fast lane" which is what makes it dangerous...even more so when slow coaches refuse to briskly accelerate and try getting to the far left as soon as possible cutting across everyones path.

 

Whether driving on the left or right, doing a U-turn will always put you in the 'fast lane' unless there is a slip lane to enable you to adjust your speed before entering the fast lane.

It should be said that the so called 'fast lane' is really an overtaking lane but is completely ignored here.

[richard_smith237]

20 hours ago, NokNokJoke said:

The danger is from the drivers of the other vehicles, not a slower vehicle driving legally. Many us states have split speed limits for trucks and cars, and frequently a lower minimum speed limit that is required to be maintained. I have over 4 million miles experience driving large, slow, trucks. I have been rear ended by cars. They weren't paying attention. One dumbass decapitated himself running under my trailer. He was doing twice the posted speed limit. I guess I was the slower, dangerous vehicle? To boot, it was daylight.

 

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Not quite my point - An HGV driving at the posted speed limit is driving safely. An HGV or any other Vehicle driving at half the posted speed limit presents a danger, not as much of a danger as someone driving twice the speed limit, however, the danger is presented by the speed differential they create. 

 

Usually the speed limits for an HGV vs a Car vary by 10-20kmh - its not a significant difference. The persons driving at 50kmh on an 120kmh limit road (perhaps with HGV's limited to 100kmh) does present a risk. 

 

Having your HGV rear ended is obviously the fault of the other driver, in no way could you be accused of fault if driving close to the posted speed limit. 

[richard_smith237]

27 minutes ago, topt said:

Sorry disagree. Regularly use the 7 and most times now drive between 90 and 100 or so - since I discovered it makes nearly a 15% difference in fuel consumption........and I am by no means normally the slowest car/truck.

Not only that the legal limit for coaches and lorries is lower anyhow. 

 

Your calculated 15% difference in fuel economy is interesting. 

 

It used to be that driving at 56mph (90kmh) was the most economical speed to drive at. I'm sure this varies for different vehicles and the figure has evolved over time. 

 

IMO: Traffic permitting, driving at 100kmh on a road with a posted speed limit of 120kmh is safe, especially if you are in the left most 'driving' lane and not in the middle or right most 'over taking lanes'. 

 

The greatest danger caused by slower vehicles are those which sit in the middle lane at 50-60kmh forcing other cars to pass on both the left and right hand-side with greater speed differential (for the pedantic - yes I know no one forces another car to pass, but get real, its going to happen!)

 

The hazard is still created by the slower vehicle, much in the same way a vehicle traveling at 160kmh poses a greater risk with a 40kmh speed differential to those vehicles traveling at 120kmh speed limit. 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by richard_smith237

[rwill]

Driving too slow can cause accidents.  But impacts at higher speeds are much less survivable.

Edited October 6, 2019 by rwill

[unamazedloso]

Yes, yes, yes.... <deleted> infuriating also!!! What could be a 5min drive turns in to a tank of gas and several hours of thumb twiddling and yelling.

Edited October 6, 2019 by metisdead
8.) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

[Bangkok Barry]

When you encounter these drivers it means they don't know how to drive, are drunk, or both. Whichever it is, it's best to get past them as quickly and as safely as you can and leave them to it. In the real world it is an offence to drive slower than the normal speed of other vehicles and will attract the attention of the police patrols. It might be an offence in Thailand too, but whether something is illegal or not has no relevance at all in Thailand.

[topt]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Your calculated 15% difference in fuel economy is interesting. 

 

It used to be that driving at 56mph (90kmh) was the most economical speed to drive at. I'm sure this varies for different vehicles and the figure has evolved over time. 

Yes I remember that being the "quoted" wisdom in the UK years ago. My figure is based on actual experience here in one vehicle over quite a few years.

 

The rest of your post  agree  

[The Theory]

 

On 10/2/2019 at 6:52 PM, cyril sneer said:

All the near misses i've had have generally been from slow driving, especially in Thailand

And you !!!! A great perfect driver I presume who is a victim.  ????????

I see at least a few farang opposite riders every week. They are victims as well !!!!  ????????

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by The Theory

[Russell17au]

On 10/4/2019 at 2:32 PM, richard_smith237 said:

Quite an apt name: Vaccum - someone who things they live in a vacuum. 

 

I'll explain it to you: In a civilized world its common to give way to someone who indicates, letting them out in front of you rather than continuing to accelerate and aggressively blocking them.. This is just an example of the difference between driving on the expressways in the UK and in Bangkok. 

 

Why the hell should he [give way]??? I guess you think why the hell should you hold the door open for another person passing through behind you, or why the hell should you say thank you when a waitress brings your food etc... 'Why they hell should.....'  You are the problem and people like you cause animosity in the modern world. 

 

 

 

Wrong. In a civilized world there is a law that states that you DO NOT CHANGE LANES UNLESS SAFE TO DO SO. All because you put your indicator on does not give you right of way to change lanes in front of any vehicle in that lane. I have spent 25 years removing dead and injured from vehicles that have been involved in accidents because a driver has the same attitude as you and you are in the wrong.

[Thaidream]

On 10/2/2019 at 7:00 PM, pgrahmm said:

Yes, slow driving causes all the other drivers to make course changes & corrections; greatly enhancing the chance for an accident....

The driver of that slow car will be the least affected = but the root cause.....

Too fast isn't good either.....

Best to match the general flow.....

Speed kills and Thais drive way too fast on all types of roads- they constantly change lanes and overtake at the wrong time. When they pass- their speed is excessive.  Actually, most of the slower drivers are closer to what the speed limit needs to be and enforced.

 

In Thailand motorcycles are the number 1 cause of accidents; then excesive seped and then drin driving.  In the US where I worked  12 years as a car insurance adjustor- speed was the number one cause of deaths and acidents- then drink driving.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Theory]

There is no slow driver in Thailand. 

Night slow drivers are night blind. Daytime slow drivers often busy with something else and as soon as they are done with push the accelerator and become a one more moron and join the death race and trying hard to keep Thailand #1 in death roads. 

Edited October 6, 2019 by The Theory

[Vacuum]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:12 AM, richard_smith237 said:

I expect 'everyone in the far right lane to slow down' ??? Where did I write that?

Here:

Quote

I couldn't change lanes due to the approaching car in the outside lane, which, regardless of my indication signal clearly showed no intension of slowing or checking his speed to allow me to change lanes in front of him.

 

[Kurtf]

Considering that Thai drivers in general do not look before swerving into the passing lane, it is my opinion that slow drivers cause more accidents. They themselves may not be involved but they definitely are the cause of most of the accidents. 

[NokNokJoke]

It

 
Not quite my point - An HGV driving at the posted speed limit is driving safely. An HGV or any other Vehicle driving at half the posted speed limit presents a danger, not as much of a danger as someone driving twice the speed limit, however, the danger is presented by the speed differential they create. 
 
Usually the speed limits for an HGV vs a Car vary by 10-20kmh - its not a significant difference. The persons driving at 50kmh on an 120kmh limit road (perhaps with HGV's limited to 100kmh) does present a risk. 
 
Having your HGV rear ended is obviously the fault of the other driver, in no way could you be accused of fault if driving close to the posted speed limit. 

There usually is no legal requirement to drive at the speed limit, but there are usually requirements to be at the minimum mandated speed, or above, if there is one. On restricted access highways the minimum speed is often 45 mph, while the speed limit is 65 mph, or higher. Many large trucking fleets operate under the posted speed limits for trucks, and this may mean a 20 mph differential. You will only run into the back of them if you have your head up your butt or are a totally inept driver, and a majority of drivers are.
Thailand is worse because the unusual situations are multiplied. Last night I had a girl almost run into me on a motorbike, texting while riding, no helmet, and when she passed....no taillight. I drove 5 km in/out of town to meet a friend for dinner. Probably 5 unlit vehicles going the wrong way on each leg. On the return trip a series of 3 white passenger vans ran a red light....impromptu vip convoy without cops?

I expect anything, and when I don't see any craziness and find myself relaxing or speeding up.....I remember, and slow down. It's still out there.


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[Kurtf]

Another cause I think are all the <deleted> that park so that they are half blocking the left lane causing even the slow drivers to swerve into the passing lane. Speaking of lanes, ever notice how Thai drivers seem to have zero understanding of "lanes" and what they are supposed to indicate. Arrrrggh. Cutting corners is a national pastime whenever a Thai driver comes to a curve in the road. 

[shy coconut]

On 10/4/2019 at 7:22 AM, richard_smith237 said:

 

I guess I wasn't paying attention the other day, or rather, I thought I was but I still had a near miss. 

 

On the Expressway I was checking my mirror and doing a shoulder check (blind spot) to pull from the middle lane to the right most lane. The car in front was doing about 60km (not that slow), I knew my approach speed as I check my mirror and shoulder checked, but I couldn't change lanes due to the approaching car in the outside lane, which, regardless of my indication signal clearly showed no intension of slowing or checking his speed to allow me to change lanes in front of him.

 

The car in front suddenly slowed further (it was a battered, beaten up old pickup), it was probably doing 40kmh by this time - I had to emergency brake. 

 

 

In short: Any vehicle who's speed varies significantly from the surrounding traffic poses a danger. On the Expressway where the speed limits are 120kmh, everyone should be doing 110 to 120 kmh where traffic permits. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are there traffic laws in any country which state that you have to give way to

a car changing lanes, even if you are indicating and have done a shoulder check?