UK could be flexible on details of Northern Ireland veto, customs plan

[webfact]

UK could be flexible on details of Northern Ireland veto, customs plan

By Paul Sandle

 

Britain's Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay appears on BBC TV's The Andrew Marr Show in London, Britain, October 6, 2019. Jeff Overs/BBC/Handout via REUTERS

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain is open to some flexibility on the proposed mechanism that would allow lawmakers in post-Brexit Northern Ireland to decide whether the British province remains in regulatory alignment with the European Union, its Brexit minister said.

 

The mechanism, set out in London's latest Brexit proposals, aims to resolve the biggest sticking point in negotiations: the currently seamless border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

 

"The key issue is the principle of consent, that's why the backstop was rejected three times, that was the concern in terms of both sides in Northern Ireland not approving of the backstop," Stephen Barclay told the BBC's Andrew Marr on Sunday.

 

"So the key is the principle of consent, now of course in the mechanism, as part of the intensive negotiations we could look at that and discuss that."

The 500-km (300-mile) border will be the United Kingdom's only land frontier with the bloc after it leaves.

 

The problem is how to prevent Northern Ireland becoming a "back door" into the EU's single market and customs union without erecting border controls that could undermine the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, which ended decades of political and sectarian violence in Northern Ireland in which more than 3,600 people were killed.

 

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said he cannot accept the so-called backstop arrangement included in the Withdrawal Agreement negotiated with the EU by his predecessor Theresa May, which British lawmakers rejected three times.

 

He made what he called a final Brexit offer to the European Union on Wednesday that centres on replacing the backstop with a proposal for an all-island regulatory zone to cover all goods.

 

The proposal also says the legislative assembly in Northern Ireland -- which has been suspended since 2017 -- would have the right to decide every four years whether it wants to continue to abide by EU rules on traded goods.

 

The European Union and Ireland, however, said the proposals were unlikely to result in a deal without more concessions.

 

Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said he did not fully understand how the British proposals might work and that Dublin could not sign up to a treaty that did not safeguard an open Irish-British border.

 

His deputy, Simon Coveney, said giving the Northern Ireland Assembly a vote on single market alignment would in effect give a veto to any one party.

 

He also raised concerns about the proposed customs arrangements that would require checks and controls even if, as proposed, they do not take place at or near the border.

 

Barclay said Britain was willing to discuss the detail of customs proposals, adding: "We have set out a broad landing zone, in the detail of the negotiations, of course we can get into the details of how operationally they work, what legal certainty is required."

 

NO DITHER

Writing in the Sun on Sunday newspaper, Johnson said the proposals were a "practical compromise that gives ground where necessary while still protecting the UK's interests and the Brexit this country voted for".

 

He said lawmakers from every wing of his Conservative Party, from his allies in Northern Ireland's DUP and even from the opposition Labour Party had said they could get behind the deal.

 

"And I salute the spirit of compromise from MPs on all sides who have looked at what's on the table, reflected on what's best for their constituents, and decided they are willing to put aside their personal beliefs and back the deal that they know will get Brexit done," he said.

 

With the Oct. 31 deadline approaching, Johnson has consistently said he will not ask for another delay to Brexit, but also that he will not break a law that forces him to request one if no withdrawal deal has been agreed by Oct. 19. He has not explained the apparent contradiction in his comments.

 

Johnson discussed his proposals with French President Emmanuel Macron and Portuguese Prime Minister Antonio Costa on Sunday.

 

He urged Macron to "push forward" to secure a deal and said the EU should not be lured into the mistaken belief that the UK would stay in the EU after Oct.31, Number 10 said.

 

Macron told Johnson that talks should continue swiftly with EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier's team in the coming days, in order to evaluate at the end of the week whether a deal is possible that respects European Union principles, according to an Elysee official.

 

Johnson said in the Sun on Sunday that Britain could do a deal if the EU was willing.

 

"But they should be under no illusions or misapprehensions," he said. "There will be no more dither or delay. On Oct. 31 we are going to get Brexit done."

 

A senior source in Johnson's office said on Sunday there was a chance to get a deal done: a deal that is backed by lawmakers and a deal which involves compromise on all sides.

 

"The UK has made a big, important offer but it's time for the Commission to show a willingness to compromise too," the source said. "If not the UK will leave with no deal."

 

The government acknowledged for the first time on Friday that Johnson will send a letter to the EU asking for a Brexit delay if no divorce deal has been reached.

 

(Reporting by Paul Sandle; Editing by Catherine Evans and Frances Kerry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-07

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[Samui Bodoh]

The solution is easy; allow Northern Ireland to reunite with the rest of Ireland.

 

Erin go Bragh!

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

29 minutes ago, webfact said:

some flexibility

Is not enough. And Boris knows that. It's just a stupid show to tell their voters: We tried, but the EU is obviously to blame.

 

In a way I would love to see the EU telling the Brits NO, no extension. Enough is enough, get on with your life and blame your own politicians.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Is not enough. And Boris knows that. It's just a stupid show to tell their voters: We tried, but the EU is obviously to blame.

 

In a way I would love to see the EU telling the Brits NO, no extension. Enough is enough, get on with your life and blame your own politicians.

Agree not enough yet, but for the first time there seems to be some progress and maybe even a way out.

[chrisinth]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The solution is easy; allow Northern Ireland to reunite with the rest of Ireland.

 

Erin go Bragh!

 

 

 

Yep, that should sort out Brexit.

 

But will also re-ignite troubles in NI that the British government do not want, or indeed will not be able to handle. It would be an extremely difficult step to sell out NI to a United Ireland.

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The solution is easy; allow Northern Ireland to reunite with the rest of Ireland.

 

Erin go Bragh!

 

 

 

Are you suggesting bring the date of Armageddon forward?

 

To much inbred sectarianism, yes, ideally unite NI with the rest of the Island of Ireland but that would not be feasible in our life time. 

 

IMHO the only solution would be to turn NI into a self governing British dependency, but as NI is proving it is not even able to form a legislative assembly to govern itself.

 

The issue is unless NI can self govern and allow its laws to align with EU rules then the Boris proposal will not work, NI being governed from Westminster is not going to be acceptable due to conflicting interests.

 

  

[Srikcir]

It looks like Parliament clipping Boris' ears has forced him into meaningful negotiations with the EU on Brexit. If there is a final agreed deal it will be interesting to see just how much different it is from May's deal.

[zorrow424]

8 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

It looks like Parliament clipping Boris' ears has forced him into meaningful negotiations with the EU on Brexit. If there is a final agreed deal it will be interesting to see just how much different it is from May's deal.

Parliament have done nothing to clip Boris wings,not forced into anything,he,himself is forcing the issue   bye bye EU 31/10

[stephenterry]

No point in going round in circles with every Brexit post reported on this forum. Wait until something actually happens.

[Dumbastheycome]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The solution is easy; allow Northern Ireland to reunite with the rest of Ireland.

 

Erin go Bragh!

 

 

 

If  were "allowed"  would  it be welcomed by sides?

[stephenterry]

4 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

Parliament have done nothing to clip Boris wings,not forced into anything,he,himself is forcing the issue   bye bye EU 31/10

Presumably you're in the know as to what happens after that? For example, all the unresolved commitments that the UK has to negotiate before it can say bye bye EU. Probably take another 3 years of talks, particularly if the scenario is a no-deal. To think otherwise is not thinking.

 

That's why it's called a 'divorce' settlement. Countries just cannot leave without negotiating that with due legal process - unless it's a dictatorship.

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The solution is easy; allow Northern Ireland to reunite with the rest of Ireland.

 

Erin go Bragh!

 

 

 

 

What a ludicrous suggestion. 

 

Interesting how people support democracy - but only for some and only when they like the result. That's fast becoming the hallmark of the left.

[samran]

All Boris has to do is throw the DUP under the bus. Leave NI in the EU customs zone and regulatory zone, and brexit will be done.

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Is not enough. And Boris knows that. It's just a stupid show to tell their voters: We tried, but the EU is obviously to blame.

 

In a way I would love to see the EU telling the Brits NO, no extension. Enough is enough, get on with your life and blame your own politicians.

 

That game has been and is being played by both sides.

 

The EU and May, either through her incompetence or connivance, proposed a deal, that was unacceptable to just about everyone in the UK.

 

Boris and his cronies have exploited that to get the no deal they want to cash in their investments and hedging, Boris possibly thinks that by crashing out he'll gain a lot of favor with a large section of the electorate which will propel him into a new term as PM with a majority in parliament of like minded Tories.

 

Tusk, Juncker etc will be aware of all this. There original plan, May's deal has been thwarted. They might play the long game. If they do nothing, Boris will be legally forced to apply for an extension using the legally required letter. If he tries tricks, he'll be in contempt and all hell will break loose. That could well result in a GE, and then who knows. A remain government could be elected. It's in the EU's interests, at the moment, to grant an extension, and watch the UK government and politicians destroy themselves.

[Baerboxer]

Just now, samran said:

All Boris has to do is throw the DUP under the bus. Leave NI in the EU customs zone and regulatory zone, and brexit will be done.

 

Only he can't do any of that! 

[samran]

9 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Only he can't do any of that! 

If he's got a thumping majority coming his way - as the polls are telling us - the he probably can ultimately?

 

The majority of NI'ers will be happy. The land of hope and glory crew get their brexit (they never cared about the Irish anyway), and the EU get to watch the ashen faced performances of the GB brexiters as they try and explain away how things aren't going so well on November 1st and beyond, allowing them to put up a third rate trade deal. Or am I missing something?

Edited October 7, 2019 by samran

[zorrow424]

30 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Presumably you're in the know as to what happens after that? For example, all the unresolved commitments that the UK has to negotiate before it can say bye bye EU. Probably take another 3 years of talks, particularly if the scenario is a no-deal. To think otherwise is not thinking.

 

That's why it's called a 'divorce' settlement. Countries just cannot leave without negotiating that with due legal process - unless it's a dictatorship.

...and presumably you know even more of what happens   for example,any unresolved commitments stay unresolved,finished,that is what clean cut divorce is all about,and yes I'm thinking.  EU gets awkward UK puts its foot on eires throat ,no vehicular movement north of the border until it gets what it wants. EU may block EU entry points  but eire will scream harder and louder ,useful idiots is what its all about 

  Easy-peasy as i would say ,done and dusted   bye bye EU  not long now

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

That game has been and is being played by both sides.

I don't think the EU looks at it like a game.

The EU have their rules and they stick to their rules and they are not willing to change their rules for the small UK.

And that makes sense. Because if they would change their rules then everybody wants special rules and soon there wouldn't be a EU anymore.

 

On the other side the UK government is playing games to get reelected. And the only way for them to get reelected is to continue lying about beautiful Brexit. If they would tell the truth, that Brexit in the way it was promised does not exists, then people wouldn't vote for Boris anymore. So he continues with the lies. And the stupid UK tabloid press lets him get away with all those lies.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, zorrow424 said:

...and presumably you know even more of what happens   for example,any unresolved commitments stay unresolved,finished,that is what clean cut divorce is all about,and yes I'm thinking.  EU gets awkward UK puts its foot on eires throat ,no vehicular movement north of the border until it gets what it wants. EU may block EU entry points  but eire will scream harder and louder ,useful idiots is what its all about 

  Easy-peasy as i would say ,done and dusted   bye bye EU  not long now

A clean cut would only be possible if the UK and EU would stay completely separated from each other in the future. No travel, no business, no nothing. Is that realistic?

Obviously: No! Ane this is why there is no such thing as a clean cut. Because what is a clean cut today is a big mess tomorrow.

[zorrow424]

3 minutes ago, samran said:

If he's got a thumping majority coming his way - as the polls are telling us - the he probably can ultimately?

 

The majority of NI'ers will be happy. The land of hope and glory crew get their brexit (the never cared about the Irish anyway), and the EU get to watch the ashen faced performances of the GB brexiters as they try and explain away how things aren't going so well on October 2nd and beyond before the force a third rate trade deal on them. Or am I missing something?

Yes you are   93 billion trade deficit,8 million fee for belonging,EU discussing trapped countries being enforced to take in more and more refugees.

   1 million UK ites  living in EU  just how many on welfare there, whilst 3 and a half million in UK   probably all on minimum work hours whilst on max benefits,  all stops  31/10

[zorrow424]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

A clean cut would only be possible if the UK and EU would stay completely separated from each other in the future. No travel, no business, no nothing. Is that realistic?

Obviously: No! Ane this is why there is no such thing as a clean cut. Because what is a clean cut today is a big mess tomorrow.

Who says so ? YOU   right  lol

[zorrow424]

18 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

That game has been and is being played by both sides.

 

The EU and May, either through her incompetence or connivance, proposed a deal, that was unacceptable to just about everyone in the UK.

 

Boris and his cronies have exploited that to get the no deal they want to cash in their investments and hedging, Boris possibly thinks that by crashing out he'll gain a lot of favor with a large section of the electorate which will propel him into a new term as PM with a majority in parliament of like minded Tories.

 

Tusk, Juncker etc will be aware of all this. There original plan, May's deal has been thwarted. They might play the long game. If they do nothing, Boris will be legally forced to apply for an extension using the legally required letter. If he tries tricks, he'll be in contempt and all hell will break loose. That could well result in a GE, and then who knows. A remain government could be elected. It's in the EU's interests, at the moment, to grant an extension, and watch the UK government and politicians destroy themselves.

What a load of bolloc.ks.  Boris majority come GE will be enormous   bye bye EU 31/10

[zorrow424]

Distinct impression,most,if not all posters here are not from UK,but can see the end results for themselves ,in their own respective countries,and yes it looks grim for them,and undoubtedly will be,but from UKs view, not interested,just get on with it the best way you can,but the UKs absence will make a vast hole in EU s budget for sure ,while the UK can tote its 93 billion deficit around with it if so wishes,not putting into EUs pot

 

  you see,hope you do,anything but anything to thwart Boris intentions on leaving the EU on 31/10 have all been attended to,all wishful thinking "all hell breaking loose" at parliament being snubbed,well it is and boris knows how to do it.  all hot air from now in

Edited October 7, 2019 by zorrow424

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

while the UK can tote its 93 billion deficit around with it if so wishes,not putting into EUs pot

Sure it can. And be the only nation to violate the universally observed economic phenomenon that there is a directly proportional relations between proximity and the amount of trade between nations. And that's because BREXIT IS MAGIC!!!

[zorrow424]

6 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Sure it can. And be the only nation to violate the universally observed economic phenomenon that there is a directly proportional relations between proximity and the amount of trade between nations. And that's because BREXIT IS MAGIC!!!

It is,it surely is   only a matter 20 odd days,and not just a matter of UK fortunes but EUs, EU will not last long,especially with world financial crisis unfolding   UK getting out at just about the right time

   UK gives EU crumbs   10 bob a year will do    EU grateful for anything it throws out,even its used underpants

Edited October 7, 2019 by zorrow424

[Mike Teavee]

27 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

What a load of bolloc.ks.  Boris majority come GE will be enormous   bye bye EU 31/10

Boy are you going to look silly come 1st November when the UK is still in the EU & Boris is back peddling faster than Chris Froome in reverse... 

 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, zorrow424 said:

It is,it surely is   only a matter 20 odd days,and not just a matter of UK fortunes but EUs, EU will not last long,especially will world financial crisis unfolding   UK getting out at just about the right time

I guess if you haven't got the facts on your side, then your best course is to invoke the future. Lovely thing, the future. It can be whatever your biases make it.

[zorrow424]

Just now, bristolboy said:

I guess if you haven't got the facts on your side, then your best course is to invoke the future. Lovely thing, the future. It can be whatever your biases make it.

I suppose you have too,come on lets hear them    UK saving 93 billion a year  no 8 billion fee  plus plus 39 billion in its back pocket

[edwinchester]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The solution is easy; allow Northern Ireland to reunite with the rest of Ireland.

 

Erin go Bragh!

 

 

 

If Brexit is the massive failure some imagine it will be I guess there may be a popular groundswell in NI for unification as they watch the Republic surging forward with Europe.

[zorrow424]

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Boy are you going to look silly come 1st November when the UK is still in the EU & Boris is back peddling faster than Chris Froome in reverse... 

 

All wishful thinking,just jaw -jawing to each other of the evil empire,all of it wishful thinking    bye bye EU 31/10   few short days left  bye bye