Second whistleblower in Trump-Ukraine scandal comes forward - lawyer

[webfact]

Second whistleblower in Trump-Ukraine scandal comes forward - lawyer

By Doina Chiacu and Mark Hosenball

 

U.S. President Donald Trump delivers remarks at Young Black Leadership Summit at the White House in Washington, U.S., October 4, 2019. REUTERS/Yuri Gripas

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A second whistleblower has come forward with first-hand knowledge of President Donald Trump's attempts to get the Ukrainian president to investigate a political rival, lawyers for the official said on Sunday.

 

Lawyer Mark Zaid said the person, also an intelligence official, has direct knowledge of some of the allegations involving the initial whistleblower complaint, which triggered impeachment proceedings against the Republican president.

 

The emergence of a second protected witness complicates efforts by Trump and his Republican supporters to dismiss the complaint as politically motivated hearsay and may strengthen the Democrats' case against him.

 

The complaint, filed with the inspector general on Aug. 12, cited information received from half a dozen U.S. officials expressing concern that Trump was using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country as he seeks re-election to a second term in 2020.

 

It also alleged that Trump leveraged $400 million in aid to secure a promise from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to investigate a Democratic rival, former Vice President Joe Biden, and his son Hunter Biden, who sat on the board of a Ukrainian energy company.

 

"I can confirm that my firm and my team represent multiple whistleblowers in connection to the underlying August 12, 2019, disclosure to the Intelligence Community Inspector General," Andrew Bakaj, a second lawyer, said on Twitter. Bakaj declined further comment.

 

Zaid said the whistleblower had spoken with the inspector general as part of an initial examination of the whistleblower complaint. An interview with the inspector general affords protection against reprisal.

 

Confirmation of another whistleblower followed stirrings of discontent within Trump's own Republican Party after he called on Beijing on Friday to investigate Biden's son, who had business dealings in China.

 

Republican U.S. Senators Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse and Susan Collins have expressed concerns about Trump reaching out to foreign countries to help him in his 2020 re-election bid.

 

However, other Republicans stood firmly in support of Trump on news shows on Sunday, echoing the president's insistence that there was nothing wrong with his Ukraine call and dismissing his entreaty to China as a joke, even though Trump continues to raise the issue.

 

"I doubt if the China comment was serious to tell you the truth," U.S. Senator Roy Blunt, a Republican member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said on CBS' "Face the Nation."

 

"I don't imagine that's what he was doing. Certainly we shouldn't expect the Chinese, the Russians or any of our national security adversaries to be helpful in any way."

 

Trump has alleged that Hunter Biden profited in his business dealings in both Ukraine and China from his father's position, and that Joe Biden, as vice president, pushed Ukraine to fire a prosecutor to impede a probe of a company tied to his son.

 

However, there has been no evidence of any wrongdoing.

 

"The Biden family was PAID OFF, pure and simple!" Trump exclaimed on Twitter on Sunday.

 

Biden spokesman Andrew Bates said Trump had "sent his administration into a tailspin by trying to bully a foreign country into spreading a comprehensively debunked conspiracy theory about the vice president" and he predicted Trump would lose "the old-fashioned way: an intervention by his own country - courtesy of the American people - in 2020."

 

DO-SOMETHING DEMOCRATS

The telephone call with Zelenskiy, a summary of which was released by the White House, and the whistleblower complaint prompted House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi to launch the impeachment inquiry on Sept. 24. Trump's attempts to solicit foreign interference jeopardized U.S. election integrity and threatened national security, she said.

 

The investigation could lead to the approval of articles of impeachment - or formal charges - against Trump in the House. A trial on whether to remove him from office would then be held in the U.S. Senate. Republicans who control the Senate have shown little appetite for ousting Trump.

 

Democrats said any finding that Trump withheld taxpayer money, already approved by Congress to help Ukraine fight Russian aggression, in exchange for a favour from Zelenskiy would strengthen the case against him.

 

Trump has maintained there was no "quid pro quo" in his request of the Ukrainian president, but text messages released last week have heightened Democrats' concerns.

 

In the texts, Trump's Ukraine envoy, Kurt Volker, told a Zelenskiy adviser a meeting with Trump could be set up if Zelenskiy convinced the U.S. president he would pursue an investigation, while another State Department official expressed unease over the withholding of aid.

 

The committees leading the impeachment inquiry released the texts after Volker testified on Thursday.

 

The committees this week expect to hear from several other U.S. diplomats, including Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, a committee official confirmed on Sunday. Sondland worked closely with Volker and Trump's personal lawyer Rudolph Giuliani on the Ukraine effort.

 

Former U.S. Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, disparaged by Trump and abruptly recalled from Ukraine, was scheduled to give a deposition to congressional committees on Friday.

 

(Reporting by Doina Chiacu and Mark Hosenball; Additional reporting by Valerie Volcovici, Timothy Ahmann and Jonathan Landay; Editing by Sandra Maler)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-07

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[Samui Bodoh]

I am not at all surprised that there is a second whistle-blower; the question now is how many more will surface? A third? a fourth? Another ten?

 

I am certain there will be those who whine that a whistle-blower is "unfair" and that Trump "has a right to face his accuser", but those people are incorrect. The US has had whistle-blower laws for well over two hundred years and those laws are an element in any well-functioning Democracy. Further, Trump has only himself to blame; had he actually listened to issues and/or complaints bubbling up through his Administration, he could have dealt with them in a proper and timely manner. Instead, he chose to attack with the full force of his office; it made the usage of whistle-blowing law(s) almost inevitable. Finally, Trump has made loyalty a hallmark of his administration, but not in a good way; Trump demands loyalty up the line, but doesn't give it down the line. Other than perhaps Niki Haley, is there anyone who has left the Trump Administration with a better reputation than when they entered it? Anyone? I can't think of a single person, but am willing to be corrected. Again; has anyone left the Trump Administration with a better reputation than when they entered it?

 

I have said this before, but it bears repeating... The Republican party really needs to have a long look in the mirror. The simple fact is that Trump is going to be impeached (there are already enough votes in the house) and the focus of history will be on the subsequent actions of the Republican party. Yes, there are those who might believe that Trump has done no wrong, but they are incorrect and in their 'heart of hearts' they know it. Whatever they choose to do, it is going to follow them throughout the rest of their careers and to the grave; it will be the defining vote of their entire political lives. Choose well.

 

Finally, the Dems need to step up their game and get this done quickly. I don't know how much more damage Trump will do before he is removed from office, but you can bet your left testicle that he will do some. 

 

Remove him now. 

 

ASAP.

 

 

[canuckamuck]

Whether it is or it isn't, it is being perceived by some right wing commentators as a coup attempt by the intelligence community. I guess we will see if the new evidence has any teeth. In any case, America is continuing to pull apart.

[Cryingdick]

2 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Whether it is or it isn't, it is being perceived by right wing commentators as a coup attempt by the intelligence community. I guess we will see if the new evidence has any teeth. In any case, America is continuing to pull apart.

 

What will eventually happen is more conservative states will do what liberal states are doing. If Trump is impeached expect no cooperation from local law enforcement regarding gun rights etc. 

 

This is why I feel we need an election and a winner or loser either way. If Warren runs and wins of her own accord she has some type of mandate. If it is impeachment and nobody agrees a bigger rift than you can imagine will form.

[Scott]

Troll post and replies removed.  

[Tug]

Not surprised some people care about America and democracy it takes great courage to stand up to a viscous mentally ill powerfull person especially when he has corrupted the system to support him but cracks are appearing soon the dam will break and a coup is not what is happening far from it it is a measured careful exposure of the facts 

[quandow]

32 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

If Trump is impeached expect no cooperation from local law enforcement regarding gun rights etc. 

Yeah. That's JUST how a healthy democracy works. Sore losers!

[quandow]

Most notable - not ONE White House representative went on ANY Sunday talk shows defending Trump's actions because he is no longer defensible. Even Republicans are starting to smell the coffee.

[Skallywag]

Doesn't someone in authority have to actually see a statement taken under oath from these so called "whistleblowers" ?

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Andrew Bakaj, a second lawyer, said on Twitter. Bakaj declined further comment.

Anyone can open a twitter account with any name and title AFAIK.

 

A statement to the "inspector general"  is mentioned, but not from the inspector general, so hearsay.

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Zaid said the whistleblower had spoken with the inspector general as part of an initial examination of the whistleblower complaint.

Again, someone said someone talked to someone. This is all hearsay.

Am not a Trump fan, but am waiting for some "first hand" information, as likely the Democrats will need this to proceed with impeachment

[Cryingdick]

8 minutes ago, quandow said:

Yeah. That's JUST how a healthy democracy works. Sore losers!

Sore losers would be the theme of the dems. They have been playing that hand for over a decade

 

[Cryingdick]

5 minutes ago, quandow said:

Most notable - not ONE White House representative went on ANY Sunday talk shows defending Trump's actions because he is no longer defensible. Even Republicans are starting to smell the coffee.

 

When did you become clairvoyant? 

[LomSak27]

23 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Whether it is or it isn't, it is being perceived by some right wing commentators as a coup attempt by the intelligence community.

Perceived my hiney .... when they were trying to impeach Clinton, did you hear a word about "coup" of course not. Shoes on the other foot now and it's a "coup" just FOX news being FOX news. Yawn.

 

 

 

 

[Skallywag]

1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

 

When did you become clairvoyant? 

It is Sunday evening in America, All the Sunday morning news shows were broadcast 6-8 hours ago

[Cryingdick]

2 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

Perceived my hiney .... when they were trying to impeach Clinton, did you hear a word about "coup" of course not. Shoes on the other foot now and it's a "coup" just FOX news being FOX news. Yawn.

 

 

 

 

 

Truer words have never been spoken. You have got me to completely reverse my position. 

[Cryingdick]

2 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

It is Sunday evening in America, All the Sunday morning news shows were broadcast 6-8 hours ago

 

So we should sort of wait and see what the next whistleblower actually says?

[Skallywag]

4 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

So we should sort of wait and see what the next whistleblower actually says?

I mentioned that so far it seems all this information is hearsay, second, third hand, and announced on Twitter feeds (way of the world now it seems)

There is mention of an inspector general having taken a "statement" from the whistleblower (under oath I assume), yet nothing published AFAIK

Everything I have seen on Trump since he began his candidacy in 2016 points to the fact he can skirt around any accusation.  Everyone who works for him, getting prosecuted. 

All Trump has to do is blame someone else for giving him false advice, which resulted in him saying what he did to the Ukrainian president during the phone call. 

Trump is like teflon, nothing sticks to him

[metisdead]

An off topic trolling post and a reply has been removed. 

[neeray]

5 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Trump is like teflon, nothing sticks to him

All Teflon pans eventually wear out. Some at about the 3 year point !

[Chomper Higgot]

33 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Doesn't someone in authority have to actually see a statement taken under oath from these so called "whistleblowers" ?

Anyone can open a twitter account with any name and title AFAIK.

 

A statement to the "inspector general"  is mentioned, but not from the inspector general, so hearsay.

Again, someone said someone talked to someone. This is all hearsay.

Am not a Trump fan, but am waiting for some "first hand" information, as likely the Democrats will need this to proceed with impeachment

There is already first hand information, a summary of the subject phone call released by the WH, documents preserved on a secure server and Trump’s statements in front of the press on the WH lawn.

[scottiejohn]

27 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

So we should sort of wait and see what the next whistleblower actually says?

Not necessarily a whistleblower per se but some hard evidence is required, not 2nd and 3rd hand coments and conjecture.

[Skallywag]

Just now, neeray said:

All Teflon pans eventually wear out. Some at about the 3 year point !

We can only hope!

The "wheels of justice" seem to move slower and slower every year as more lawyers and politicians get involved to line their pockets or gain notoriety/electability

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Not necessarily a whistleblower per se but some hard evidence is required, not 2nd and 3rd hand coments and conjecture.

You have read what the whistleblower had to say about ‘locking down evidence’ and where the ‘locked down evidence’ has been stored?

[Skallywag]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There is already first hand information, a summary of the subject phone call released by the WH, documents preserved on a secure server and Trump’s statements in front of the press on the WH lawn.

Trump statement on the WH lawn saying he withheld the military aid from Ukraine until they dug up dirt on Biden I cannot find online.  It sure seems Trump is in serious trouble, but I have to be skeptical as still need 2/3 vote in Senate to impeach.   No news coverage on Senate Republican comments - are there?

 

[bristolboy]

30 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Not necessarily a whistleblower per se but some hard evidence is required, not 2nd and 3rd hand coments and conjecture.

There's this fiction alive and well amongst Trump supporters that the first whistleblower is only in possession of second hand information. 

The IG’s office also said Monday that it had determined that the whistleblower did have some first-hand, “direct knowledge of certain alleged conduct.”

It’s not true that the whistleblower could “provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions,” the IG said.

https://www.apnews.com/2305510b6e23498c9298ed597ddccbac

[neeray]

1 hour ago, Skallywag said:

Trump statement on the WH lawn saying he withheld the military aid from Ukraine until they dug up dirt on Biden I cannot find online.  It sure seems Trump is in serious trouble, but I have to be skeptical as still need 2/3 vote in Senate to impeach.   No news coverage on Senate Republican comments - are there?

 

Senate Republicans are laying low trying to figure out <deleted> to do on this one. Hopefully they'll take a cue from Mitt.

[dimitriv]

1 hour ago, Skallywag said:

Again, someone said someone talked to someone. This is all hearsay.

Am not a Trump fan, but am waiting for some "first hand" information, as likely the Democrats will need this to proceed with impeachment

 

Trump admitted to this crime himself. He blocked $400 million of aid, and a week later he pressured someone to do him a favour. That should be enough to send him to prison. If the US was a normal democracy.

 

[amexpat]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

Sore losers would be the theme of the dems. They have been playing that hand for over a decade

 

It wasn't dems who claimed for a decade that President Obama was born in Kenya, said the top priority was to make sure he was a one-termer, blocked voting on supreme court justice, voted against healthcare and everything else proposed by the winners. 

 

Not that you will stop claiming the opposite. Cult members can't change. 

[Cryingdick]

1 hour ago, neeray said:

All Teflon pans eventually wear out. Some at about the 3 year point !

 

You are beginning to sound like Harris in a city in the midst of urban decay.

[Tug]

7 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

You are beginning to sound like Harris in a city in the midst of urban decay.

The Bay Area is the driving force behind California’s thriving economy the 5 th largest on the planet I think Oakland is on fire as far as real estate and business go just so ya know

[quandow]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

Sore losers would be the theme of the dems. They have been playing that hand for over a decade

You can't have it both ways - you just predicted Republicans would cross their arms, pout like spoiled babies and become publicly defiant if they didn't get their way. Pot and kettle, man.