Thailand to demand proof of health insurance for 'risky' long-term visitors

[JackDenz]

I would guess that lobbying from insurance companies would be at work here. Several months ago there was a list if prescribed companies that would be accepted for the Non-O-A holders. I expect it will be regurgitated for now for the Non-O!

[brewsterbudgen]

 
Do not let the highly affordable rates for outpatient care fool you.
 
If admitted to the ICU of that same hospital your bill could easily top 1 million baht. And if in a private hospital, 3-4 million.
 
Unfortunately the required insurance of 400k will not cover even half of that. And the required 40k of OPD cover is totally unneeded.
 

Presumably it will be possible to top up the policy to make the inpatient coverage realistic? Just a shame about the unnecessary outpatient cover.

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[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, yahboo11 said:

Trump did the exact same thing in the States. Immigrants require to demonstrate they have health insurance. In the States, health insurance is very expensive

And staying as a legal immigrant in the US is not as easy as some people seem to think.

 

 

[uncleeagle]

This is how nasty, small minded, dishonest, probably racist and definitely illogical this new insurance requirement is.

 

They say there are $16 million dollars of unpaid hospital bills...lets call that 500 million baht...roughly 30 baht to one US dollar...and they have roughly 40 million arrivals per year most of whom will have bought a ticket electronically...a tax of 12 baht per ticket would cover the paltry bill they are whinging about. 

 

But instead of doing that they have decided that, without a shred of evidence shown to justify it, the entire bill should be paid by a quite vulnerable and generally well behaved group of people who are already subjected to an onerous and strict visa extension application procedure...i.e., retirees aged above 50.

 

Do younger people not get sick and have accidents...or do the vast numbers of migrant workers never require medical treatment and leave without paying?

 

This is abject nonsense, it is nasty, racist, illogical, xenophobic idiocy and I truly hope it motivates a good number of people to move on.

 

Here is some more simple arithmetic...the $16 million of unpaid bill they claim is roughly equivalent to 600 multiplied by 800,000 baht...800,000 is the amount of money needed for a retirement extension but many spend far more...so all it will take is 600 retiress to leave and they lose the entirety of the claimed unpaid bill. I suspect many more will leave so the net result is these idiots are just shooting themslves in the foot. What if 6000 leave? My guess is it will be even more. The maths is really quite simple. Not only are they not going to filter out the vast majority of the non bill payers, they are going to cost the country far more than the unpain bill they claim.

 

 

[thequietman]

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Add a few Baht tax to all plane tickets/landings, use the money to aid foreigners hurt in the Kingdom, and problem solved.

They already did this a number of years ago, but we can only guess that NONE of it made its way to the hospitals.

[WaveHunter]

According to the new regulation, the mandatory insurance must offer up to 40,000 baht coverage for outpatient treatment and up to 400,000 baht for inpatient treatment.  There is a website set up to help ex-pats over 50 find insurance coverage at http://longstay.tgia.org/

 

For foreigners who can’t purchase health insurance because their health risks or age are considered too high, there is a provision in the regulation where relevant authorities might consider requiring them to have higher deposits in bank accounts so as to make sure that they have enough to live in Thailand and in addition meet the above-mentioned requirement for inpatient treatment.  So, I guess that would mean 800,000 in the account year-round, instead of the current 800/400 provision.  Most reasonably funded retirees could handle this with no problem.

 

So, for the vast majority of retirees that think they will be forced to leave the Kingdom, I don't see cause for alarm.

 

Also, for many expats over 50, in the event of serious illness or need for expensive medical treatment, they can return to their home-countries for state-assisted treatment (i.e.: Medicare for American Expats).  In cases of life-threatening conditions, USA Medicare will often cover treatment costs within Thailand, without the need to even return home.  These new Thai regulations don't seem to take this factor into account.

 

Personally I think this whole thing about requiring 800/400 be frozen in your bank account, and now this new health insurance regulation are a little bit extreme.  Expats over 50 in Thailand actually represents a very small percentage of the foreigners living in Thailand.

 

Thai authorities vastly overestimate the seriousness of this issue.  While estimates of the number of Expats living in Thailand range from 500,000 to one million according to Thai authorities, the actual number of Expats over 50 residing full-time in the Kingdom is only 150,707, and of those, only 72,969 are retirees for the previous year, according to the United Nations Thailand Migration Report of 2019.  So I think the seriousness of this "problem" is vastly overblown.

 

In light of all of this, I think Thai authorities have really gone overboard with these draconian requirements, especially when you consider that the majority of expats over 50 are well funded and many have invested in property, and contribute a substantial amount of money to the country's GDP.

 

I really think Thai officials are being "penny-wise and pound foolish" in their policies towards ExPats.  Expats contribute far more money to the Kingdom's GDP than they cost the Kingdom, yet it seems like those in charge are constantly finding new ways to make life as difficult as possible for Expats!  Their actions are a case of "Cutting off the nose to spite the face" IMO!

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Bazt]

I might be wrong, and hope I am, but am I getting this feeling that this government really wants to kick all aged Farangs (the white ones) out the country..? It seems to invent more and more ways to put pressure for us Oldies (50+) to leave ! 
Admitting that their figures are right (after all, they should know), their amounts pales in front of what we give financially to our Thai spouses and families. We are the ones who donate to their grass (I mean rice) root economy. Our monies flow directly to the local micro economy. We, the above 50ies  retired farangs, cost nothing to this country. Its smile is becoming more like a grin. For my love of my woman, her family
should I kowtow and pay ..  

It only takes about 1250 retirees to leave with their 800,000 a year for Thailand to lose a billion baht to their economy.


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[thequietman]

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

So when this stupidity and paranoia ends? this government is going from the silly to the ridiculous, let the government tell us how many non-o visa holders have treated in Thai hospitals and didn't had the money to pay, numbers and figures please real figures, not made up ones

Government spokesman Aripong Namchat was quoted as saying : Falang tink too mutt." ????

[owenm]

1 hour ago, Mark mark said:

Well, actually thinking about it ... YES, (If I was an Australian tax payer who paid the Medi car levie) as some many years ago, when I did have this status, I DID actually claim the costs of treatment in Thailand, for VD, ... and back then it was still covered !!! ... So I was paid !!! .... Like I would just have loved to have seen the expression on the Public servants face, that opened, and had to process my Claim !!! Har Har ... Now VD contracted abroad at least I think ? is not covered by Medi care I think, ....  but other things still might be ! and though I do not know for sure, I am being quite honest here ! ?

When I first settled long term in Thailand 4.5 yrs ago, initially on 3ETV, then multiple METVs and then 18 mths ago on Non-Imm O-A I decided to cancel my private health cover in Oz, which was with Bupa..

 

Unbeknown to me at the time, Bupa informed me that I can have my cover deferred for up to 2 yrs at a time by showing them a O/W ticket out of Aus. After 2 yrs, then by paying only one month's premium, can continue the suspension for another 2 yrs. So after 4 years, just paid for one month again, AUD 170 and returned to Aus to have surgery done on a hernia as a private patient.. I had to pay my annual excess of AUD 500, surgery for laparoscopic keyhole was a No Gap as was the Private Hospital a No Gap, even with a two night stay, so no out of pocket expenses. No penalty for having my cover deferred for 4 yrs, no waiting period, no preexisting conditions. I paid my excess and AUD 300 for anethasist, so total cost was AUD 800.. Private and Medicare paid the bulk of it. 

 

The surgeon also found two other smaller hernias as well, and repaired all three at no further cost to me.

 

I saw a specialist in Bangkok prior, and he quoted me about 80k Bht just for the surgery, plus anethasist and hospital costs would be additional. Approx 100-120k Thb total cost.. That's AUD 5-6,000..

 

I saved a lot by keeping my Aus Bupa cover alive, and not totally cancelling it before arriving here.. 

I also got two pairs of specs from Specsavers for free with my extras cover with the policy.. By suspension of your Aus private health cover, there's no age penalty and my monthly premium paid was only AUD 170 to reactivate my policy.. 

[wwest5829]

I would encourage all retired here to write letters to their respective Emassies outlining the demand by Thailand, pointing out the hardship caused by insurance policy excluded pre-existing conditions and the financial burden being unaffordable by many retirees. I will als include in my letter, a proposal that the issue be investigated, statistics gathered and a proposal to cover any deficit burden borne by Thailand be covered by an annual tax on the different segments of foreigners burdening Thailand with unpaid medical costs.

[Sheryl]

Presumably it will be possible to top up the policy to make the inpatient coverage realistic? Just a shame about the unnecessary outpatient cover.

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Most of the compsnies offer a range of plans but premiums go up accordingly and some do not offer, even in their highest plan, sufficient inpt cover.

Their are other issues with some of these plans as well.

But yes the OPD requirement is the worst and is what led to the creation of special plans just for retirees, which is a very cost ineffective way to insure.

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[thasoss]

16pages for what? or am I missing something here? Yesterday it was stated compulsory health insurance will be required from October 31st for all applications for a non O-A visa.. end of story until they decide to include extensions of stay sometime in the future 

[maxcorrigan]

4 hours ago, steve2112 said:

thais have to show proof of medical insurance to get a schengen visa (for EU), and UK will only cover emergency visits and have the option to charge you, and i think have started in some cases

Well in my experiance two years ago the treatment my Thai wife received in the UK for a semi emergency issue she was picked up by ambulance complete with a para-medic on board taken to hospital and was treated quickly we were there all day, given a prescription which we got from the hospital pharmacy all completely free and no questions asked!

[brewsterbudgen]

16pages for what? or am I missing something here? Yesterday it was stated compulsory health insurance will be required from October 31st for all applications for a non O-A visa.. end of story until they decide to include extensions of stay sometime in the future 

Indeed, and it's been in the pipeline, and discussed on this Forum, for months! Yet people are still scaremongering that it will be applied to other visas and Extensions.



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[brewsterbudgen]

Well in my experiance two years ago the treatment my Thai wife received in the UK for a semi emergency issue she was picked up by ambulance complete with a para-medic on board taken to hospital and was treated quickly we were there all day, given a prescription which we got from the hospital pharmacy all completely free and no questions asked!

What was her visa status?

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[phka]

So is this now mandatory for people renewing extensions

[thequietman]

3 hours ago, randy723 said:

I am 77years old and have tried with 3 different insurance companies to get insurance and they all say I am too old and will not insure me so does that mean I have to Leave Thailand, where I own a condo, car, motorbike, have a Thai wife and 2 children from my wifes first marriage and over 3 million baht in a Thai bank account where I am only getting 1 1/2 % interest. Does this mean i have to sell everything and leave and let the Thai goverament take care of my wife and kids.

Yes. ????

[Curmudgeonly59]

38 minutes ago, JackDenz said:

Several months ago there was a list if prescribed companies that would be accepted for the Non-O-A holders.

Yes - here it is: 

http://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

 

[NanLaew]

25 minutes ago, Bazt said:

It only takes about 1250 retirees to leave with their 800,000 a year for Thailand to lose a billion baht to their economy.

How many retirees do you think are (still) here?

[maxcorrigan]

4 hours ago, Skallywag said:

I agree.  Same situation here, if I end up in the hospital likely pre-existing and not covered with insurance.

The money I spend on health insurance would better put to use improving Thai women's livelihoods in the here and now.  

Exactly, i would imagine the insurance companies could rope almost anything into pre-existing conditions, so your cover you would be forced to pay would be virtually worthless, purely my opinion of course!

[kingofthemountain]

16 minutes ago, thasoss said:

.. end of story until they decide to include extensions of stay sometime in the future 

This is not the end of the story

but just the start,unfortunately

and as you say the next step is ''they decide to include extensions of stay''

this is the big concern for most of us here, and one of the reasons of the 16 pages and more

[NanLaew]

21 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

I would encourage all retired here to write letters to their respective Emassies outlining the demand by Thailand, pointing out the hardship caused by insurance policy excluded pre-existing conditions and the financial burden being unaffordable by many retirees. I will als include in my letter, a proposal that the issue be investigated, statistics gathered and a proposal to cover any deficit burden borne by Thailand be covered by an annual tax on the different segments of foreigners burdening Thailand with unpaid medical costs.

You sound like the kind of responsible, registered voter who when confronted with some ill-conceived government edict back home, would have no problems on writing a letter to your local MP about it.

 

But writing your respective embassies? In Thailand? Really?

 

We are expats. Deal with it.

[Pedrogaz]

I am getting tired of this. Seriously, I will leave. I have 6 maths to prepare. 

If the Thais were serious about this they would offer government insurance or let us pay into the government system. I have a serious objection to being raped by insurance companies.

[ourdon]

3 hours ago, Estrada said:

This is just a repeat of yesterday's news on Thai Visa/Nation which clearly stated that this applies for applications for O-A visas from outside Thailand which does not apply to Non-O retirement visas and extensions.

I am outside of Thailand.  The courier delivered my passport with new one year O - A visa today. 

Nothing medical other than not having elephantiasis, leprosy or the third stage of syphilis was mentioned.  I was asked how much money was available for this trip and had to provide a bank statement of an account.

 

I think this gives me about a year to see how this insurance shakes out.  It might mean changes in my winters.  I am now doing a little investigating to find out what my options really are.

 

Unlike most of you, I have no wish to permanently retire to Thailand.  I spend about five months in Thailand, about two months in Europe (mostly investigating vinyards) and about five months in Canada.  That pretty well seems to fill my dance card for the year.  I'm quite enjoying my semi romany lifestyle.

 

 

 

[WaveHunter]

36 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

... "Also, for many expats over 50, in the event of serious illness or need for expensive medical treatment, they can return to their home-countries for state-assisted treatment (i.e.: Medicare for American Expats). ..."

 

Sorry, meant to say over 65, not 50 in the case of Medicare.

Edited October 10, 2019 by WaveHunter

[fforest1]

Well one thing I find refreshing....We dont have to listen to those on the top of the visa food chain belittle those people going through a visa tightening lower down the visa food chain..As has been happening for many years now...

 

And then the Nazis came for me and there was no one left to say any thing...

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by fforest1

[Mark mark]

Looking at all of this, and in particular the regulations posted, 

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5d9c3b074d8a8f318362a8aa&fbclid=IwAR39UI_zBxVLedZKgZeAeYnvb0yyyIsr6SHPhnq64ohzACO7VsLUU_LlGn0

 

It would seem that just for now, only the Non Im OA visa applications are affected. But just for now ! 

 

This UPDATE Article here seems to show a government statement that it WILL be aplied to all Long Stayers on 12 month visas ? ... But it is only saying this, and this is one man that "Said this" ...

 

...  for it to be enforced the Government will have to Draft New regulations, like this one above for OA Visas. Like I think that quite possibly they WILL do this, ... but it has to be passed in Parliament, the new regulations drafted, and then posted first. Right ? 

 

Like they might not do it, as well the stories of a lot of people leaving and with their cash, would probably be true, like a LOT of us might not be able to get any coverage any way ! ... and then it would be back to the 2 month Tourist Visas, with a 1 month extension, then a trip abroad, which well when in "as mental As" Thailand, might not be such a bad idea any way. .... and no need for the 800,000 either !!!

 

Any way, ... if I was a betting man ? ... I think that they eventually will do this ... make it mandatory for all Long stayers, ... and probably sooner than later.

 

BUY they have not done it yet, (I think ?) and it is not in the law yet, either ??? (I think ???)

[Truthhurts]

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

I would be quite happy to see changes in the rules to ensure that Thais pay for any treatment they receive in the UK and don't get free treatment like pretty much everyone else in the world.

 

I know they pay nothing right now.

 

I wonder how much free treatment Thais get over in Europe per year and how that figure compares to this paltry sum?

Foreigners dont get free treatment in the uk, usa or oz unless they are part of reciprocal arrangements or have insurance. 

 

[illiterate]

This is just old news being rehashed. How convenient for Thaivisa, another round of free promotional sharing and advertising. Getting people stirred up is all the rage, take a look at the news, all they report on is stories that will outrage viewers. 

[hagai]

50 minutes ago, thequietman said:

They already did this a number of years ago, but we can only guess that NONE of it made its way to the hospitals.

I guess you mean what they called the “Emergency Fund”. This Fund was completely wasted a couple of years ago, compensating the families of all the Chinese victims of two boat accidents.