Retirees and medical insurance

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 Could well be... But right now, the new police order only pertains to O-A visas, not O visas, and perhaps extensions of stay stemming from O-A visas...

 

Right now, O visas aren't in play at all.

 

New police orders and ministry rules seem to change every six months... 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

New police orders and ministry rules seem to change every six months... 

 

See Pib's update from a visit to CW today... Bad news all around:

 

Quote

 

For the next 10 to 15 minutes I talk to this officer and she spoke pretty good English.  Once again this officer started scanning thru my numerous extension of stay stamps....back to the OA visa stamp.  And when seeing the OA visa from 2008 there is the bad news is coming facial expression again.  She said, "Yes I will be required to have insurance to extend again."   The new requirement applies all all OA visas issued "before, on, or after" 31 Oct 2019.  No grandfathering....it even applied to my 2008 OA visa.  

 

-  During those 10 to 15 minutes I asked the question at least 3 times in various forms like pointing out my OA visa is from 2008...."an old visa"....I've got 11 extension of stay since that 2008 OA visa expired---she said that didn't make a difference.  The new rule did not apply just to OAs issued after 31 Oct 2019....it applied to all OAs...past, current, and future.

 

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1128878-absolute-latest-from-immigration-on-insurance/?do=findComment&comment=14680988

 

[Sheryl]

People are not being pushed to abandon anything. You will need two policies.  The Thai's will not let you use your good foreign policy because they want to make money out of you.
 
People will need their proper comprehensive foreign policy, in case of illness and / or injury, and the Thai junk policy, just to obtain a visa / extension. So, that 1900 baht visa is set to become a whole lot more expensive, on top of the 800,000 baht in a bank that makes no money for you, and you can't even use 400,000 baht of it, forever.
 
The wealthy Thai elite can't be seen stealing visa fees, but they can force you to buy a junk insurance policy from an accredited company that they have financial interests in. 
 
Those who can not afford both, really should be looking at leaving Thailand. 
 
Don't shoot the messenger.  We can all see what they are doing, and we all know why they are doing it.  It has nothing to do with foreigners not paying their medical bills.  They are corrupt and greedy, and are using their power to legally extort money from foreigners. 
 
It will come down to paying them what they want for their policy that covers practically nothing, if you want to remain in Thailand, or leave. 
 
Since when has any rule or law come in that even remotely benefits foreigners in Thailand????

I have costed it out and switching to Elite would cost less than buying one of these policies if or once one is over 65.

If someone currently has no insurance then they might at least get some value out of the purchase (versus nothing much for your money with the Elite, as I see it) but it makes no sense to do as a second policy.

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[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Enoon said:

My main problem is how to explain to the beloved ones that they can't really rely on my support anymore if I find myself living in an alternative "place in the sun".

My gf expressed worries just last week, "What happens to me if you are forced to leave?"

I said I didn't know, maybe she could come back to the UK with me and my son.

Can't really afford him in a third country, it's either Thailand, UK or leave him in the Thai boonies with his mom.

 

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Why would it be? It's not even 31 October yet. You also didn't bother to mention if your base visa was O or OA. ALL people reporting should include that detail going forward. 

My visa, when Immigration transferred my stamps from an old to a new passport last month, seems to have converted from OA to a new class - RE. Which I assume means Retirement Extension. Make of that what you will.

Excuse me for not being aware of your requirements for posters on this thread. I thought I was passing on information.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

My visa, when Immigration transferred my stamps from an old to a new passport last month, seems to have converted from OA to a new class - RE. Which I assume means Retirement Extension. Make of that what you will.

Excuse me for not being aware of your requirements for posters on this thread. I thought I was passing on information.

That's interesting. I need to check my passport for that as I had my original visa transferred as well. People may want to bring in their old passports now if that becomes an issue to show the O rather than O-A visa.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Jingthing

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That's interesting. I need to check my passport for that as I had my original visa transferred as well. People may want to bring in their old passports now if that becomes an issue to show the O rather than O-A visa. So was your original visa an O or an O-A?

According to my passport, in 2014 it was NON-O. As of August 2019, it is NON-RE.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

According to my passport, in 2014 it was NON-O. As of August 2019, it is NON-RE.

Wow. Well anyway I think it's fair to assume that if there does continue to be a distinction between base O and O-A visa as far as insurance requirements, then either they would have that info in their computers or you could show them your old passport with the O visa.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Jingthing

[sfokevin]

21 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

My visa, when Immigration transferred my stamps from an old to a new passport last month, seems to have converted from OA to a new class - RE

My visa transfer to a new passport has a stamp for the initial visa and subsequent extensions added... So a complete history is shown..

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by sfokevin

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, sfokevin said:

My visa transfer to a new passport has a stamp for the initial visa and subsequent visa added..

 

Looks the same as mine.

[Sheryl]

That is not a subsequent visa added. It is a permission of stay stamp given on entry, just happens to be located below where they put in the original visa info. If you look through your passport you may find others like it. I have a slew including one just put there an hour ago.

I think it stands for "Retirement Extension" and indicates you entered via re-entry permit on an extension of stay for retirement. Doesn't change the visa you entered on prior to initial extension of stay.


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[sfokevin]

Agreed but the point I was making is that my original (Non O) is there and has not been “converted” to anything... A new passport will not clear your initial visa type/history...

Edited October 18, 2019 by sfokevin

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

35 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

According to my passport, in 2014 it was NON-O. As of August 2019, it is NON-RE.

 

I believe, that means you went from an O visa to a retirement extension of stay...

 

That doesn't read as an O-A visa, however.

 

[taichiplanet]

my extensions only say 'Retirement'. no mention of non-imm. My multiple re-entry only has 'NON-IMM' above the stamp and in the visa category. All my re-entry stamps back into Thailand since 2014 (when passport was issued) are either stamped or hand written 'Non-RE' There is nothing in my passport saying NON-O or NON-OA.

 

Actually when i had my passport renewed in 2014 and took it to Thai Immi they seemed to stamp a bit of history on the first page when transferring the visa extension (retirement). One stamp shows my 'Visa Class' as 'Non-ED' (Education visa) back in 2009 and another shows my 'Visa Class' as 'Non-RE'

 

I guess that is why I and probably a few other people get confused when talking of 'Retirement', NON-O or NON-OA visas. But i am assuming i am on a Non-OA.

 

Interesting looking at the London Thai Embassy showing the various Type O visas and the Type O-A visa. It clearly states for the O-A that insurance is necessary. Also required for the Type O-X.

"Copy of evidence stating that applicants have insurance as stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and health insurance of Thailand which has insurance coverage for outpatient not less than 40,000 Baht and for inpatient not less than 400,000 Baht. Please check < http://longstay.tgia.org> for more information regarding the insurance requirement."

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84508-Non-Immigrant-visas.html#6

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

42 minutes ago, taichiplanet said:

Actually when i had my passport renewed in 2014 and took it to Thai Immi they seemed to stamp a bit of history on the first page when transferring the visa extension (retirement). One stamp shows my 'Visa Class' as 'Non-ED' (Education visa) back in 2009 and another shows my 'Visa Class' as 'Non-RE'

 

That would seem to suggest your most recent actual visa, as opposed to extensions of stay, was an Education (ED) visa.

 

Usually when you get a new passport, Immigration does a bunch of new stamps on the first 1 or 2 pages of your new book that copy over the essential info from your prior passport. And part of that includes making a new reference in your new passport to what your most recent actual visa was from your old passport.

 

The Non-RE stamp, AFAIK, is their indicator of a retirement extension of stay, which is NOT a visa.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[baansgr]

I'm with the authorities on this, its only right they expect long stay tourists to have cover....self funding etc can be circumvented. What's wrong is it seems to be money orientated....with over 80,000 long stayers requiring a policy at a cost of about 25-30k.....thats a Lotta money into the Economy. It may not be a police order yet but is only a matter of time befor it will be required, bet ya bottom dollar on that

[Guderian]

In its original announcement on the medical insurance requirement for getting an OA visa they stated that foreigners owed Thai hospitals 500 million Baht. Thailand's tourism industry is worth several trillion Baht per annum, so they're moaning bitterly about a cost that's far less than a thousandth of the income that the industry generates for the country. Surely any rational government should simply write it off as a natural cost of having such a large tourist sector? Thailand seems to be trying to set new international standards for miserliness.

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Why would it have been? The policy change doesn't take effect until Oct. 31.

 

And if you're not a former O-A visa holder, then you probably don't have anything to worry about at all.

 

 

Perhaps simply because the likelihood is the old extension ends after 31st October. He may well have a previous O-A, it wasnt mentioned. 

[Leaver]

13 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I have costed it out and switching to Elite would cost less than buying one of these policies if or once one is over 65.

If someone currently has no insurance then they might at least get some value out of the purchase (versus nothing much for your money with the Elite, as I see it) but it makes no sense to do as a second policy.

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See Post #27.

 

If officials saw a mass migration to Elite, they will either attach the insurance requirement to obtaining Elite, or raise the price of the Elite. 

[losername]

I am on retirement extensions originating from my O-A visa issued in UK.  Since my arrival I have had insurance with one of the companies listed as suitable online.  I have the ฿400,000 cover with the same company through the same broker and have maintained that policy for well over a decade.  It seems I might have to arrange cover of  ฿40,000 OPD but that should not present a major cost.  In the official documents I have seen they always refer to buying insurance "online".  I bought mine through a broker.  Does anyone have knowledge of or thoughts on whether this is a real problem or just loose wording?

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, losername said:

I am on retirement extensions originating from my O-A visa issued in UK.  Since my arrival I have had insurance with one of the companies listed as suitable online.  I have the ฿400,000 cover with the same company through the same broker and have maintained that policy for well over a decade.  It seems I might have to arrange cover of  ฿40,000 OPD but that should not present a major cost.  In the official documents I have seen they always refer to buying insurance "online".  I bought mine through a broker.  Does anyone have knowledge of or thoughts on whether this is a real problem or just loose wording?

 

Loose wording.

 

immigration is not going to go into the ins and outs of how you bought the policy. They aren't going to look at the policy documents, either. All they will want to see is a single page standard wording certificate signed by the company stating you meet Imm requirements.

 

For the company to give you that, you will have to add OPD cover and it will likely cost more than you think, but should certainly be possible.

 

If you are planning on retiring here permanently, should verify whether your policy guarantees renewal and up to what age to avoid being left high and dry in later years. If they do nto guarnantee lifetime renewal or close to it (e.g. 99 years) now would be the time to change to one that does, as the older you get, the fewer new insurance options there will be if any.

[nrasmussen]

That is not a subsequent visa added. It is a permission of stay stamp given on entry, just happens to be located below where they put in the original visa info. If you look through your passport you may find others like it. I have a slew including one just put there an hour ago.

I think it stands for "Retirement Extension" and indicates you entered via re-entry permit on an extension of stay for retirement. Doesn't change the visa you entered on prior to initial extension of stay.


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Since the re-entry permit just says "NON-IMM" (and nothing about retirement) my take on this is that the "RE" in "NON-RE" on the entry stamp means "re-entry".

[Sheryl]

Since the re-entry permit just says "NON-IMM" (and nothing about retirement) my take on this is that the "RE" in "NON-RE" on the entry stamp means "re-entry".

Could well be. Or "re-entry-extension".

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[Sheryl]

 
Loose wording.
 
immigration is not going to go into the ins and outs of how you bought the policy. They aren't going to look at the policy documents, either. All they will want to see is a single page standard wording certificate signed by the company stating you meet Imm requirements.
 
For the company to give you that, you will have to add OPD cover and it will likely cost more than you think, but should certainly be possible.
 
If you are planning on retiring here permanently, should verify whether your policy guarantees renewal and up to what age to avoid being left high and dry in later years. If they do nto guarnantee lifetime renewal or close to it (e.g. 99 years) now would be the time to change to one that does, as the older you get, the fewer new insurance options there will be if any.

I would add as a P.S. that if planning to retire here permnently you should also check what your insurance premiums will be at later years (and do not assume you won't live to a very old age or that somehow it won't matter then. You may and it will.)

Factor this into your financial and other planning (such as the extent to which you cut ties in your home country).

Premiums go up very, very steeply as you age. You do not want to end up old, unable to readily go back to your country due to nowhere to stay and no close connections, having been settled in Thailand for many years but no longer able to meet Immigration requirements for extension of stay.

Exactly this already happens to some older expats, and with the new rules has the potential to affect a much greater percentage of them.

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[Momofarang]

On 10/18/2019 at 11:45 AM, webfact said:

They would be forced out of the country if unobtainable medical cover was made compulsory, thus leading to a gigantic loss of income.

Hmmmhhh, I love the the typical Thai humanity of this statement.

[nrasmussen]

Could well be. Or "re-entry-extension".

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It would be nice if someone not on an extension of stay based on retirement, and that entered with a re-entry permit, would tell us what their entry stamp says.

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Perhaps simply because the likelihood is the old extension ends after 31st October. He may well have a previous O-A, it wasnt mentioned. 

Correct. While I renewed my extension before October 31, the extension fell due on November 3. And as I said, medical insurance was not mentioned.

[Guderian]

At the end of the day, it just shows that many of us made a serious mistake retiring to a country that doesn't have a formal retirement programme for expats. We've just ended up as pawns in some silly game being played by the generals and ex-generals, and the rich Thai-Chinese who mostly own the country and have little interest in us living here.

 

I moved here following my retirement 15 years ago, one of the main attractions being that Thailand was such a relaxed, easy-going place when it came to rules and regulations. Avoid drugs, underage sex and lese majeste and you were unlikely to have any problems that couldn't be fixed by waving a 500 Baht note at somebody, but how things have changed for the worse. And with a quasi-military government apparently in power forever more I really don't see any hope of it ever getting any better, in fact the opposite might happen.

[Leaver]

13 hours ago, Guderian said:

it just shows that many of us made a serious mistake retiring to a country that doesn't have a formal retirement programme for expats.

 

But, but, but, my visa says, "Retirement" so it's got to be ok to retire here.    ???? 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Leaver

[Oink]

My understanding was that the requirement to keep 400,000 baht in the bank was to cover for medical emergencies.

That said, just try going into BPH without a credit card in your back pocket. Even if you have insurance they require you to pay first, then it is up to you to reclaim the cost from your insurer so no chance of them being left with unpaid bills.