Village Maintenace Charges

[DannyCarlton]

4 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Easy to say. We have a non-payer that has police connections, threaten him and you could find yourself in a world of hurt. Thais kill each other over a perceived insult.

Virtually every Thai I have ever had an argument with has claimed "connections". Always BS, at least as far as that connection wanting to get involved with someone who is a welcher and goes around threatening others.

 

Don't be a wuss, grow a pair and stand up for your security guard.

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

On a 92 house estate, we have reduced the number of non payers to 4 or 5. Not really a problem for me.

 

I also have sympathy for a couple of them, middle aged Thai ladies who's farang husbands have died and left them virtually destitute. One tours the estate on a saleng collecting recyclables. It's a community, happy to support each other.

 

As I said non payment of maintenance fees isn't my problem, it's the HOC's problem.

I agree with that. We only have a couple out of 40 houses that refuse to pay, and there's a couple more that have to be chased, but at the end of the day the village is still well maintained.

[DJ54]

Are the HOA fees here in Thailand insane as they are in US. The problem in US most of the fees keep escalating. Bought house 

that had HOA .$350 a month .. sold it and would never buy anything again with HOA....

[Titan1962]

Same problem here in our gated community,about 5 owners not paying the common fee. Some owners are from BKK and say they don’t live here all the time so why should they pay. Some just don’t give a <deleted>, so the committee raised the late fee to 10%. They approached  the local government office so they cannot sell their property untill all owed fees are paid in full. Plus the rest of the home owners agreed that if the common fee was not paid after 5 yrs the owner will be taken to court.

 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

Virtually every Thai I have ever had an argument with has claimed "connections". Always BS, at least as far as that connection wanting to get involved with someone who is a welcher and goes around threatening others.

 

Don't be a wuss, grow a pair and stand up for your security guard.

For a start you'd have to have proof that security was threatened, and he's not likely to point fingers at anyone for fear of retribution, and I'm certainly not going to knock on someone's door wielding a baseball bat threatening them with harm when there's a possibility of being stabbed or shot. If you are so brave, knock on your non-payers door and tell them to pay up or else.

[Thomas J]

On 10/21/2019 at 9:11 AM, lelapin said:

I live in a 60 house gated  village in Pattaya. Midway through the financial year 3 homeowners have not yet paid their annual maintenance fee. What action do other villages take to try to obtain these charges. 2 of the houses are actually rented out.

Do you have a "legal entity" formed for the village?  What do the by-laws of the village agreement say about non-payment.  Has the village been providing a monthly or quarterly recap of who has paid and income and expenses for the villa? 

[Isaanbiker]

On 10/21/2019 at 1:31 PM, giddyup said:

It's illegal to remove someone's meter unless the water is from an underground source. Mains water meters can only be  removed by the Water Company for non-payment of bills. I've never heard a Thai maintenance fee called a HOA fee.

Just make one up then. A 555 fee?

[Orton Rd]

Does not matter how rich they are some still will not pay. Know a famous Grammy singer who lives in a 20+ million baht house, only about 20 on the development, he is in charge of the committee. Just one will not pay so he told security not to raise the barrier for him- he went home and got a gun!

About 40% do not pay where we are the logic seems to go why should we pay when khun Knob is not paying. Expect security will go sooner or later when enough parasites refuse to pay up, it's just 500 a month,

Edited October 24, 2019 by Orton Rd

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

For a start you'd have to have proof that security was threatened, and he's not likely to point fingers at anyone for fear of retribution, and I'm certainly not going to knock on someone's door wielding a baseball bat threatening them with harm when there's a possibility of being stabbed or shot. If you are so brave, knock on your non-payers door and tell them to pay up or else.

I have a neighbour, 2 doors away from me. He owns a construction company building condos in Pattaya. It's generally rumored that he's Thai Chin and the local "mafia". His house is like Fort Knox and has a BMW, Mercedes and Ford Ranger on the drive, all relatively new and top of the range.

 

When I first moved here he had 2 yappy little dogs which he left out all night. Regularly woke everyone up at 3am. Firstly, I went round when the dogs were barking and grabbed one of them through the gate, so that he would see on his CCTV that I was capable of reaching the dogs. Also raised merry hell at them to ensure that I woke him and he would look at his CCTV.

 

The next time I saw him, I told him that if his dogs woke my son again, I would strangle them. He looked daggers at me but said nothing. 2 years later and I haven't heard the dogs once, neither have I had a gang of hitmen visiting my house.

 

"Feel the fear and do it anyway".

[Angry Dragon]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Banks aren't allowed to sell a property for less than the outstanding loan amount.

So they may not be able to 'offload it' if they loaned too much money on the property.

 

wrong.  if a bank auctions a foreclosed property for an amount less than the amount due on a mortgage, then the debtor is not liable for the shortfall.  thus, in practice, a bank won't want to sell a property for less than the outstanding loan amount as they wouldn't have recourse against the debtor, but they're free to do so.

[Jaxxper]

Another common issue on villages.

I do believe that if the committee for the village calculates the annual/ monthly service charge and registers it with the land office that a lien is put on the house(s) meaning it can’t be sold until the back maintenance fees have been paid, but it has to be done correctly.

Haven't  tested the theory but I’m told it’s correct. One of the problems is vacant houses. The Owners don’t see the need to pay for an empty house.

[topt]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

I pay a high figure of 1k baht/month

If that's meant to be high our village has stratospheric charges.

Getting all that you say for 12k a year seems like a bargain.

[DannyCarlton]

25 minutes ago, Jaxxper said:

The Owners don’t see the need to pay for an empty house.

Because of the lien put on the house and registered with the Land Office, they will have to pay the full arrears plus interest, before they can sell the house.

[giddyup]

2 hours ago, topt said:

If that's meant to be high our village has stratospheric charges.

Getting all that you say for 12k a year seems like a bargain.

I pay about the same, 14,000 baht a year. The maintenance is judged on the size of your land in my village.

[giddyup]

3 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

I have a neighbour, 2 doors away from me. He owns a construction company building condos in Pattaya. It's generally rumored that he's Thai Chin and the local "mafia". His house is like Fort Knox and has a BMW, Mercedes and Ford Ranger on the drive, all relatively new and top of the range.

 

When I first moved here he had 2 yappy little dogs which he left out all night. Regularly woke everyone up at 3am. Firstly, I went round when the dogs were barking and grabbed one of them through the gate, so that he would see on his CCTV that I was capable of reaching the dogs. Also raised merry hell at them to ensure that I woke him and he would look at his CCTV.

 

The next time I saw him, I told him that if his dogs woke my son again, I would strangle them. He looked daggers at me but said nothing. 2 years later and I haven't heard the dogs once, neither have I had a gang of hitmen visiting my house.

 

"Feel the fear and do it anyway".

Bully for you, but we are getting away from the subject of non payers of maintenance, or are you suggesting I threaten to strangle their dog to get them to pay up?

[topt]

Just now, giddyup said:

I pay about the same, 14,000 baht a year. The maintenance is judged on the size of your land in my village.

Yes that is the standard way to do it as far as I am aware with a set figure of so many baht per Talang Wah per month. I know the biggest house in the village (land area) has an annual charge of just over 75k baht a year..........

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Bully for you, but we are getting away from the subject of non payers of maintenance, or are you suggesting I threaten to strangle their dog to get them to pay up?

No, it was you that suggested that I knocked on my non payers door and ordered them to pay up, even though I had stated that non payers aren't my problem and there are times that I have sympathy with them.

 

Not my fault that you are too scared to have a word with some Thai.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

No, it was you that suggested that I knocked on my non payers door and ordered them to pay up, even though I had stated that non payers aren't my problem and there are times that I have sympathy with them.

 

Not my fault that you are too scared to have a word with some Thai.

Nothing to do with being scared, but I avoid making problems for myself unnecessarily. I already said that as long as the village is maintained to the same standard it doesn't affect me whether they pay or not. Don't hold yourself up as some kind of dirty harry, easy to be brave on a PC, talk is cheap.

[Soundspeed]

In our gated community in Chiang mai the Juristic person is empowered to charge interest on the outstanding fees, This accumulates until the owner wishes to sell the property then it is charged against the sale price with the interest at around 7% ( may be wrong there). property cannot be sold until all fees are settled.

The longer you leave it the more it will hurt.

 

[giddyup]

Just now, Soundspeed said:

In our gated community in Chiang mai the Juristic person is empowered to charge interest on the outstanding fees, This accumulates until the owner wishes to sell the property then it is charged against the sale price with the interest at around 7% ( may be wrong there). property cannot be sold until all fees are settled.

The longer you leave it the more it will hurt.

 

It's tough if they live there for 20 years or more. You have a long time to wait for your money and probably half the residents will have either have moved on or died.

[Rimmer]

Some flaming and bickering posts have been removed, in need of a holiday are we? Then keep that up !

[malcolminthemiddle]

Section 50 of the Land Development Act BE 2543 sets out the remedy for late/unpaid fees within a licensed project. Ultimately, if after 6 months fees are unpaid, a lien can be placed on the title deed at the Land Office which prevents the plot being sold until the fees are paid. Hope this helps.

 

Section 50
The person liable to pay the fee for the maintenance and management of public facilities under section 49 paragraph two who makes such payment later than the specified time shall be liable to a fine for the late payment at the rate prescribed by the Commission.

 

The person who fails to pay the fee for the maintenance and management of public facilities for three consecutive months upwards may have the service or the exercise of right in the public facilities suspended, and in the case of failure to make payment for six consecutive months upwards, the competent official has the power to suspend the registration of rights and juristic acts in respect of the developed land of the person whose payment is in arrears until full payment is made in accordance with the rules and procedures prescribed by the Commission.
 

It shall be deemed that the obligation arising from the fee for the maintenance and management of public facilities is the obligation which is subject to the preferential right on account of the preservation of an immovable property over the developed land of the person whose payment is in arrears.

[The Theory]

11 hours ago, kevinmartyn said:

 A lot of Thai nationals feel they are above the "Law"!

Yes, if there is any law regarding this matter. Those who refuse to pay are aware of this. It seems the management companies have no shortage of found even without receiving payments from some owners. The question is how much profit is there for a “none profit management co.” ? Where the extra go ? Why the board does not hire a lawyer and just seat back without any action !!!!

Edited October 24, 2019 by The Theory

[ifmu]

this may be a solution for future complexes

put it in the contract  clearly and in upper case  failure to pay dues will result in  ...xxxxxxxxx  it is only enforcement after that .. they will agree to the rules and consequences  before they even get to rent

[JayBird]

Not tried this, but:

1) All facilities are key card locked, so access can be denied

2) Large concrete block in front of driveway.

3) Lock main gate so it can only be opened with key in office, so owner has to wait 30 minutes to bring the key over.

4) Charge 500thb each time the gate has to be manually opened. Double if they do not pay immediately.

5) Send Bill collector to house three times a day (5am, 7pm, 12am).

[mahjongguy]

Under no circumstances can anyone prevent access to another's property, nor charge a toll. This is hard-coded into basic Thai law.

 

At best, a mooban can assert its right to provide security to residents. This could include barrier arms which the guards normally open via pushbutton. Deadbeats must get out of their car to reach into the guardhouse and push the button themselves. That would be legal, but would the guards have the nerve?   

[digbeth]

You can't bar their cars from entering their own property, but you don't have the open the gate for them, make them come out of their car and open the barrier gate by hand or push the button themselves.

 

this would of course means there would be argument with the security guys every time, without support from the Juristic Person and other paying households, the security guys would give up and open the gate for the non-paying house eventually. security guys don't get paid enough to put up with this 

 

This is why many of the newer developments just have card reader machine, deactivate their card and security can pretend to not have authority to let them in without exchanging ID

[justin case]

they can do NOTHING

 

unless the house would be sold ONE day than they could go claim at the land department that the fees are due

[jack7106]

I was away from our condominium complex of approximately 1800 condos for a couple of months. I came back and had no water whatsoever – upon closer inspection my water meter had been removed.

I went to the office and they confirmed that because I hadn’t  paid the bill, they had their maintenance team remove my water meter and would not replace it until my bill was paid.

Welcome to Thailand – TIT????????‍♂️????????????????????
I have lived here for many years in this complex and have never had a problem before????????‍♂️

[DannyCarlton]

1 hour ago, jack7106 said:

I was away from our condominium complex of approximately 1800 condos for a couple of months. I came back and had no water whatsoever – upon closer inspection my water meter had been removed.

I went to the office and they confirmed that because I hadn’t  paid the bill, they had their maintenance team remove my water meter and would not replace it until my bill was paid.

Welcome to Thailand – TIT????????‍♂️????????????????????
I have lived here for many years in this complex and have never had a problem before????????‍♂️

I pay every bill online, except water. My electricity company sends me a bill with the amount owed every month and it's deducted from my account on a set date.. Same with internet/TV. I have tried 6 times with the water company to set the same facility up. Get a letter from the bank, take it to the water company and set it up for the following month. Never happens, water company blames the bank, bank blames the water company. Rinse and repeat. I am in danger of the same thing happening to me.

 

Not the end of the world though. Go to the water company's office, pay the bill, including small fine for late payment and they usually refit your meter within a couple of hours.