I have work permit but can I freelance in different field?

[jrward42]

Hi all.

I am a writer and I used to work freelance in Bangkok for numerous magazines both here and abroad. Then I got a job at a university where I go in a few days a week and write content, edit and generally check everything is ok. Unfortunately, it is difficult for the university to get a work permit as a writer and as I do the odd bit in class, my WP has me down as a teacher.

Recently I have been getting a lot of offers to do some freelance writing here in Thailand. I remember a few months back that the rules on work restrictions had been lessened and you weren't limited to a specific field of employment. Essentially, you can do what you want as long as a Thai can't do it and it is not one of the forbidden jobs. Is that the case or just another announcement that was not followed through?

Basically: Can I write freelance articles in Thailand with a work permit that says I am a teacher?

 

Thanks a lot for any help.

[jrward42]

If that was all too long - 

 

Can I write for magazines on a teacher's work permit?

 

I guess I can go to a legal website or something.

[ubonjoe]

Are you writing for magazines here? Are you getting paid here for doing it?

[jrward42]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Are you writing for magazines here? Are you getting paid here for doing it?

Not right now. I used to many moons ago and it was my sole source of income. For the last 5 years all freelance writing work has been in other countries like the UK, Australia, etc and the money goes into my UK account (where I pay the tax). I do write articles for things like the two English newspapers but that is on behalf of the university (usually press releases).

 

I have been offered work doing editing for a variety of things recently - brochures, books, websites, etc. Some of them say they will need my tax number here, so it will be reported. A lot of the magazines I used to write for don't pay as much as they did, so that is no big deal. But say I edit a brochure/website for a hotel or university and they use my tax number, am I going to get in trouble?

 

Thanks Joe.

[problemfarang]

Firstly (not related to the topic) it should be lecturer not teacher on your WP because your teaching at a university. Which makes lot differences when you go to labor office for WP.

 

Secondly, as long as you dont sign a second contract and let your work know what your doing and where your writing at, your good. You can do it. just dont sign a 2nd contract or sign any document from your second job. And it might be a good idea to get your payment in cash (no bank transaction) from your part time. And yes you cannot work in your second job as a full time. If im not mistaken you writers usually use a fake name.. Also legally you dont need to worry too much. Just NO second contract!

Edited October 26, 2019 by problemfarang

[Rv Hawee]

The work permit rules have been modified / updated few months ago. As I understand it, now, you could do freelancing, as long as you keep your work permit of course.

It was from articles of Phuket News ;

there and also there for the 1st announcement

I hope i understood it well.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Rv Hawee
typo

[jackdd]

26 minutes ago, Rv Hawee said:

The work permit rules have been modified / updated few months ago. As I understand it, now, you could do freelancing, as long as you keep your work permit of course.

It was from articles of Phuket News ;

there and also there for the 1st announcement

I hope i understood it well.

Working freelance would usually mean writing an invoice to the client. But to be able to do this he would need to have a business, but as foreigner he can't register a personal business.

So imho he could be employed at different companies without requiring a new work permit, but he can't really work freelance.

A way arround this would be that the company for which he does some freelance work just employs him for a month or so.

[jrward42]

1 hour ago, problemfarang said:

Firstly (not related to the topic) it should be lecturer not teacher on your WP because your teaching at a university. Which makes lot differences when you go to labor office for WP.

 

Secondly, as long as you dont sign a second contract and let your work know what your doing and where your writing at, your good. You can do it. just dont sign a 2nd contract or sign any document from your second job. And it might be a good idea to get your payment in cash (no bank transaction) from your part time. And yes you cannot work in your second job as a full time. If im not mistaken you writers usually use a fake name.. Also legally you dont need to worry too much. Just NO second contract!

You're absolutely right and it does indeed say lecturer. My WP is being renewed as we speak, so that is a good reminder.

 

I will definitely not be signing any other contracts. Back in print days you often got a by-line but now there may be a short bio. Most of the time it is anonymous. Even when I write something for say, the Nation, it is not in anyone's name. On the payment front, If it is a bigger organisation, they often want my Thai tax number. Which is a concern. Cash is best obviously!

 

Thanks for the input, it is most appreciated.

[jrward42]

1 hour ago, Rv Hawee said:

The work permit rules have been modified / updated few months ago. As I understand it, now, you could do freelancing, as long as you keep your work permit of course.

It was from articles of Phuket News ;

there and also there for the 1st announcement

I hope i understood it well.

Thanks for the link, it reminded me that I'm an idiot. I only say that because the lawyer who wrote the article you linked to is a good friend of mine. I will ask him as well. 

[jrward42]

51 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Working freelance would usually mean writing an invoice to the client. But to be able to do this he would need to have a business, but as foreigner he can't register a personal business.

So imho he could be employed at different companies without requiring a new work permit, but he can't really work freelance.

A way arround this would be that the company for which he does some freelance work just employs him for a month or so.

Thanks for the input. It may be different in other trades (and what you say is right when I did TV work in London) but for freelance writing I can just write an invoice in my name. Most places don't even ask for that but a standard invoice works in my experience. For example, I wrote a piece for an Australian company recently and I just gave my details and my UK bank account and I think they did their own invoice. It varies. I am on a marriage extension and have a work permit so hopefully I can just invoice or not, depending on what they want. 

I can't work for anyone else though, unless I quit my current job.

I will be looking into this more and thanks for the advice.

[problemfarang]

27 minutes ago, jrward42 said:

You're absolutely right and it does indeed say lecturer. My WP is being renewed as we speak, so that is a good reminder.

 

I will definitely not be signing any other contracts. Back in print days you often got a by-line but now there may be a short bio. Most of the time it is anonymous. Even when I write something for say, the Nation, it is not in anyone's name. On the payment front, If it is a bigger organisation, they often want my Thai tax number. Which is a concern. Cash is best obviously!

 

Thanks for the input, it is most appreciated.

 

have another idea for you, not sure if you can use though: If your working in a university, you must do a search for the university. Well, if you can related your research to whatever your writing... hehe.. i think you get the point.

 

But again, you have nothing to worry. Theres no problem about your part-time. I did and doing also. And yes i strongly suggest cash. If they use your tax number (happened to me before) it means you have 2 works at the same time. Most likely nothing going to happen, but may raise questions when your doing your tax for the university. Tax office may see somethings fishy. 

[jackdd]

23 minutes ago, jrward42 said:

It may be different in other trades (and what you say is right when I did TV work in London) but for freelance writing I can just write an invoice in my name.

If this is what Thai labour law says then it should be ok to do.

 

23 minutes ago, jrward42 said:

Most places don't even ask for that but a standard invoice works in my experience. For example, I wrote a piece for an Australian company recently and I just gave my details and my UK bank account and I think they did their own invoice.

Of course the companies don't care if you follow the labour laws of the country, not their problem. Usually they only care if the invoice contains VAT and they want to have this refunded.

 

5 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

But again, you have nothing to worry. Theres no problem about your part-time. I did and doing also. And yes i strongly suggest cash. If they use your tax number (happened to me before) it means you have 2 works at the same time. Most likely nothing going to happen, but may raise questions when your doing your tax for the university. Tax office may see somethings fishy. 

So you suggest he commits tax evasion? You should not recommend to break the law.

Edited October 26, 2019 by jackdd

[jrward42]

8 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

 

have another idea for you, not sure if you can use though: If your working in a university, you must do a search for the university. Well, if you can related your research to whatever your writing... hehe.. i think you get the point.

 

But again, you have nothing to worry. Theres no problem about your part-time. I did and doing also. And yes i strongly suggest cash. If they use your tax number (happened to me before) it means you have 2 works at the same time. Most likely nothing going to happen, but may raise questions when your doing your tax for the university. Tax office may see somethings fishy. 

Ha. I don't actually do research for the university sadly. For the latter bit, yeah, the tax number is a concern. A recent company insisting on that is partly what kicked this off for me.

[jrward42]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

If this is what Thai labour law says then it should be ok to do.

 

Of course the companies don't care if you follow the labour laws of the country, not their problem. Usually they only care if the invoice contains VAT and they want to have this refunded.

That is another problem and you're right. Bigger companies are very strict on my giving them tax numbers and stuff but either have no idea or little interest in whether I am following the letter of the law. It is a lot easier when I write for companies in foreign countries! 

[Gulfsailor]

The way I understood it is that under the new rules you can do a different job or at a different location then what it says in your work permit, but it should be for the benefit of the company on your work permit. For instance a consultant working for CP in Bangkok can be hired out as a temporary interim manager at Honda in Chonburi, providing CP invoices Honda for it. 

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, problemfarang said:

Secondly, as long as you dont sign a second contract and let your work know what your doing and where your writing at, your good. You can do it. just dont sign a 2nd contract or sign any document from your second job. And it might be a good idea to get your payment in cash (no bank transaction) from your part time. And yes you cannot work in your second job as a full time. If im not mistaken you writers usually use a fake name.. Also legally you dont need to worry too much. Just NO second contract!

Lol yeah your good.. just hide it !! 

 

The definition of it being good is when it doesnt need hiding, and is legal !! 

[problemfarang]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

So you suggest he commits tax evasion? You should not recommend to break the law.

 

hi again,

as i said, as long as no pay tax, no 2nd contract and no sign any paper your name on it....  your good ????

Edited October 26, 2019 by problemfarang

[manarak]

4 hours ago, jackdd said:

Working freelance would usually mean writing an invoice to the client. But to be able to do this he would need to have a business,

where does that information come from?

in all countries where I have been so far, private individuals can write invoices.

[timendres]

As a freelance, the company you work for can use your personal tax id as the id of the recipient of the payment. You will then report the income on your tax return and pay any relevant taxes.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, manarak said:

where does that information come from?

in all countries where I have been so far, private individuals can write invoices.

Then you have not been in Germany yet (but i expect that it will be similar in other EU countries), some professions are exempt in Germany, but for most things you would have to register as inidividual business / sole proprietor.

According to what i found on Google it looks to be similar in Thailand, a person who wishes to do any business has to register as sole proprietor first at the amphoe.

But for example the USA seem to be somehow special (compared to Thailand and Germany), there registering as sole proprietor is not necessary.

[manarak]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Then you have not been in Germany yet (but i expect that it will be similar in other EU countries), some professions are exempt in Germany, but for most things you would have to register as inidividual business / sole proprietor.

According to what i found on Google it looks to be similar in Thailand, a person who wishes to do any business has to register as sole proprietor first at the amphoe.

But for example the USA seem to be somehow special (compared to Thailand and Germany), there registering as sole proprietor is not necessary.

well, in Germany, Journalists, Translators, Writers, etc. working as freelancers are exempt from having to register their business.

but even if one has to register, a private person can still write invoices before registering.

registering the business in Germany is only mandatory if the work becomes regular. If all activity there was are 2 or 3 orders and then nothing anymore, a registration is not necessary.

VAT is due from a threshold of 17.500 EUR sales volume.

 

[thequietman]

5 hours ago, jrward42 said:

I am on a marriage extension and have a work permit so hopefully I can just invoice or not, depending on what they want. 

I can't work for anyone else though, unless I quit my current job.

Many Thai companies will accept your wife's tax ID number, even though it is you doing the work. She just goes to the tax office and pays the necessary tax in February each year.

I can confirm this. ????

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, manarak said:

where does that information come from?

in all countries where I have been so far, private individuals can write invoices.

The issue here is that Thailand doesn't allow non Thais to operate 'freelance' only as staff of a Thai organisation with associated work permit. 

 

So it's not the production of a personal invoice that's really the issue, it's the fact your not invoicing to a Thai company (or registered non Thai one) that engages you. 

 

There's no simple cheap way to legalise yourself unless you can get covered by an umbrella company. Hence you will get folks just telling you to do it on the quiet and take action to not get caught. 

Edited October 26, 2019 by LivinLOS

[Cloudy]

No issues working somewhere else as long as you have a valid work permit. Confirmed by labor multiple times now.


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[LivinLOS]

32 minutes ago, Cloudy said:

No issues working somewhere else as long as you have a valid work permit. Confirmed by labor multiple times now.

Is that not,  doing the same job in another location ?

[donnacha]

So much overthinking!

Tens of thousands of Westerners living short-term or long-term in Thailand at any given time earn a living through various types of writing. Writers have worked while traveling all over the world for centuries - in a sense, they were the original "digital nomads", long before computers were invented.

With the exception of news journalists, no country cares about this type of work. As long as you are not walking around, soliciting work from Thai companies as a marketing expert, they do not consider it to be a "job" that you are stealing from a Thai national. By long tradition, intellectual work commissioned outside the country, and which has no physical end-product within Thailand, is of no interest to them. It also has no bearing on the work you perform under your work permit.

Simply get on with it. Some members of this forum are predictably deranged every time the subject to visas and work permits comes up. Just ignore them, everyone else with any sense does. The angriest, most pedantic posters actually have very little understanding of how real people operate in the real world. All they have is their bitterness and all the time in the world to misinterpret Thai law and attack other members here.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by donnacha

[jrward42]

In the mid-2000s I used to be commissioned to write articles for Bangkok based publishers and would be put down as a 'foreign adviser' and then pay 15% tax. I was not resident in Thailand then however. Simpler times.

 

Anyway, thanks for all the advice people! My main issue was with my Tax ID being used in multiple places. I got some good advice here and will follow up with my lawyer friend. I am also a member of the FCC so might pop in there and see what people in there think. 

 

Thanks! 

[Number 6]

I would say you're ok if you're reporting the income. If not then it all needs to be off the books.

 

Your university might not be so pleased to learn if you are thought to be underperforming or late or whatever.

 

If you're writing for blogs and pay is to bank outside Thailand I don't see an issue although you're obviously here working. Good luck getting paid. Those gigs are usually scams. The writing stuff on ajarn mostly looks scammy to me as well. 

 

No one gonna pay you cash up front or on the barrel for writing. They'll drag it out till months end. Then make excuses. You'll quit, they don't pay then find another dumb farang.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Number 6

[problemfarang]

18 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Lol yeah your good.. just hide it !! 

 

The definition of it being good is when it doesnt need hiding, and is legal !! 

Well as i mentioned before, you can LEGALLY have a part-time job. Unless if your working in a government. Just cant sign a second contract thats all.

[scorecard]

19 hours ago, jrward42 said:

That is another problem and you're right. Bigger companies are very strict on my giving them tax numbers and stuff but either have no idea or little interest in whether I am following the letter of the law. It is a lot easier when I write for companies in foreign countries! 

Correct that most Thai (and foreign) business enterprises are very careful that they (emphasise they) are not breaking any tax laws, there are very severe punishments for the business involved. Nowadays the Thai Revenue Dept., (tax collection dept.,) has many ways to check this and getting more sophisticated all the time.