U.S. diplomat Sondland reverses impeachment testimony, says he knew of Ukraine quid pro quo

[Berkshire]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

To anybody following this it was already very clear, now it has been confirmed.

But will this be enough to convince senate republicans, I very much doubt it. Facts don't matter anymore to the people, and I think facts don't matter anywhere anymore.

 

Hope to be proven wrong.

Sadly, I agree.  The gutless Senate Republicans will most likely not convict.  Which will be a huge message to Trump that he's free to request foreign powers to make-up dirt on political opponents in exchange for money, trade deals, lifting sanctions...pretty much anything.  It's baffles me how Republicans can say that this is ok.

[Becker]

48 minutes ago, BestB said:

What’s the threat?

Look, if you're gonna continue with the deflections could you please do us all a favor and strive to make them just a little bit less inane?

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

LOL. That house of cards is faaaaaaaalling fast. Surreal how the reps and his base cannot see his immorality. Really really strange.

 

I don't think that's surreal at all. They can see but it's all about damage limitation now. All the "professional' politicians, all sides, don't really want to open some cans of worms. The danger is, in getting rid of Trump, and re-asserting the political "closed-shop" mentality, they might let things out that they can never put back!

 

Trump, despised or not, loved or not, has certainly changed the political landscape. And not just for the US.

[neeray]

5 minutes ago, Becker said:

They can see it but don't care since they share his traits. MAWA is all what it's about.

Isn't it more about Republicans just want to keep their political seat?

And to do that, they whore their reputation out to protecting him.

Very short sighted.

[jvs]

3 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Sad to see how far American politics have fallen into dysfunction...

You are wrong often but today i have to agree with you.

Keep up the good work?

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Sad to see how far American politics have fallen into dysfunction...

since Donald Trump became president.

 

I agree.

[Misty]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

It's baffles me how Republicans can say that this is ok.

I could be wrong, but I'd bet most do know it's not ok.  Rather, the "fear of being primaried" is overriding any personal desire to do the right thing.

 

Small - but very vocal parts of their voter base - are screaming at them their support for POTUS.  Those small groups almost certainly will vote in the primaries next year.  Republicans who try to do the right thing fear facing a well-funded primary challenger, and possibly their own personal smear campaign.

 

(Former) Republican Reps like Justin Amash are very rare. Although public opinion is turning, it's not yet to the point that Republicans feel safe to publicly say the emperor is butt-naked.

[Sujo]

3 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

For me, the jury is still out...obviously, you and a whole host of Trump haters have made your decision...????

So what is the evidence for trump that has you prevaricating?

 

We all know evidence against him that gives us a push to guilt.

[Becker]

1 hour ago, neeray said:

Isn't it more about Republicans just want to keep their political seat?

And to do that, they whore their reputation out to protecting him.

Very short sighted.

That's true but you're talking about the GOP politicians while I was talking about Trump's base supporters.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Becker

[Becker]

Link: Republicans Go Mute After Latest Ukraine Bombshell

 

"Senate Republicans ducked for cover on Tuesday after a top Trump administration diplomat revised his testimony in the House impeachment inquiry to acknowledge that U.S. aid to Ukraine was being withheld until the country promised to investigate a company tied to former Vice President Joe Biden’s son.

Gordon Sondland, a top donor to President Donald Trump who then picked him to serve as ambassador to the European Union, confirmed in an addendum on Monday to his testimony last month that he was involved in Trump’s attempted quid pro quo with Ukraine’s government after previously claiming he could not recall the details.

Sondland said his memory had been “refreshed,” and that he now recalled telling an aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Sept. 1 that “resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement.”

[Becker]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

Trump, despised or not, loved or not, has certainly changed the political landscape. And not just for the US.

That's true, and none of it is good. Alienating natural and long standing allies, betraying groups who have fought on his side while cozying up to despots and dictators has certainly changed the political landscape and made it clear that at best there is a totally amoral and completely clueless person in the WH and at worst a Russian controlled "asset".

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, Becker said:

57 minutes ago, neeray said:

Isn't it more about Republicans just want to keep their political seat?

And to do that, they whore their reputation out to protecting him.

Very short sighted.

You're correct but you're talking about the GOP politicians while I was talking about Trump's base supporters.

Hopefully it's a case of preserving the sanctity of POTUS by letting Trump's presidency 'expire' with some degree of grace albeit hoist with his own petard. This is far preferable to any impeachment where the biggest indictment will fall on those who voted for him. Richard Nixon's 11th-hour capitulation and resignation saved the face of thousands who voted for him and the GOP heaved a sigh of relief that was heard on the moon. Unfortunately, I don't consider DJT will ever place 'We the People', the nation and the Constitution above his hubris and clamor for adulation. Faced with this, the current, majority GOP Senate will. for the greater part, be playing devil's advocate.

[Farangwithaplan]

2 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Well, if a Vice President's son is guaranteed a job in an industry he knows nothing about...we should be OK with it...nothing to see in the Biden extortion/bribing debacle...

Why are you using this as an argument? It is a completely separate issue to what the impeachment sessions relate to.

 

Let's for the sake of discussion say that okay Biden did something wrong. Does it make it right - or more to the point - lawful to pressure a leader of another nation to do something, anything, before they receive weapons to protect themselves?

 

See that is the issue I see with people supporting Trump on this. They tend to try and make the waters murky by attempting to juxtapose. The word Biden should not be brought up in these conversation at all. either the President and friends broke did the wrong thing or they didn't.

 

Whether they did the wrong thing to investigate someone who may or may not have done the wrong thing makes not a lick of difference.

 

By bringing the Biden name into this shows people are clutching at straws to justify the President's unlawfulness.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Farangwithaplan

[Becker]

12 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Hopefully it's a case of preserving the sanctity of POTUS by letting Trump's presidency 'expire' with some degree of grace albeit hoist with his own petard. This is far preferable to any impeachment where the biggest indictment will fall on those who voted for him. Richard Nixon's 11th-hour capitulation and resignation saved the face of thousands who voted for him and the GOP heaved a sigh of relief that was heard on the moon. Unfortunately, I don't consider DJT will ever place 'We the People', the nation and the Constitution above his hubris and clamor for adulation. Faced with this, the current, majority GOP Senate will. for the greater part, be playing devil's advocate.

True, and if he isn't removed from office before the next election I fully expect him to call for an armed revolt if his loss is anything less than a landslide.

He really is that despicable.

[Becker]

22 minutes ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Why are you using this as an argument? It is a completely separate issue to what the impeachment sessions relate to.

 

Let's for the sake of discussion say that okay Biden did something wrong. Does it make it right - or more to the point - lawful to pressure a leader of another nation to do something, anything, before they receive weapons to protect themselves?

 

See that is the issue I see with people supporting Trump on this. They tend to try and make the waters murky by attempting to juxtapose. The word Biden should not be brought up in these conversation at all. either the President and friends broke did the wrong thing or they didn't.

 

Whether they did the wrong thing to investigate someone who may or may not have done the wrong thing makes not a lick of difference.

 

By bringing the Biden name into this shows people are clutching at straws on this saga.

As you correctly point out Biden has nothing to do with the impeachment investigation so it's not really clutching at straws (there are no straws) , it's purely a deflection.

[Becker]

4 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

My man...same BS from you on every thread...such hypocrisy...do you ever have an original thought?...contribute to TVF through your vast knowledge and experience?  Lurking in the shadows...waiting for your opportunity to pounce on every word of those that think differently from you...does not add to the conversation...and makes you appear a bit shallow...????

 

Now go whine about how you are being misrepresented...????

Talk about not having anything to add to the conversation!

[Puchaiyank]

28 minutes ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Why are you using this as an argument? It is a completely separate issue to what the impeachment sessions relate to.

 

Let's for the sake of discussion say that okay Biden did something wrong. Does it make it right - or more to the point - lawful to pressure a leader of another nation to do something, anything, before they receive weapons to protect themselves?

 

See that is the issue I see with people supporting Trump on this. They tend to try and make the waters murky by attempting to juxtapose. The word Biden should not be brought up in these conversation at all. either the President and friends broke did the wrong thing or they didn't.

 

Whether they did the wrong thing to investigate someone who may or may not have done the wrong thing makes not a lick of difference.

 

By bringing the Biden name into this shows people are clutching at straws to justify the President's unlawfulness.

 

 

 

 

 

The very question the Trump impeachment inquiry is trying to gather evidence of..."quid quo pro with Ukraine"...Joe Biden has admitted to while VP...it is the Trump haters who have the blinders on...our laws were meant to be equal for all people...HRC and the deep state bureaucrats that gave her a "get out of jail free pass"...has emboldened the scum to come to the surface...

[J Town]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

since Donald Trump became president.

 

I agree.

No. The government dysfunction started LONG before Trump. What Trump did was expose the moral rot that is now permeating government (and the Dems are just as guilty) AS WELL as throughout American citizenry. When someone can publicly say on this forum he's happy with starving American children as long as HIS bank account flows and there is no resulting public outcry, we've lost our humanity. I grew up in the 60's and homeless people just didn't happen. Now, we've lost the capacity to care for each other. Trump didn't cause this, he just let it bubble up publicly from the swamp he multiplied.

[J Town]

2 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

The very question the Trump impeachment inquiry is trying to gather evidence of..."quid quo pro with Ukraine"...Joe Biden has admitted to while VP...it is the Trump haters who have the blinders on...our laws were meant to be equal for all people...HRC and the deep state bureaucrats that gave her a "get out of jail free pass"...has emboldened the scum to come to the surface...

Apples and apples, but different cases. Nail Biden with just as much vehemence, but you can't use the "Biden did it so why can't Trump?" defense.

[J Town]

17 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

My man...same BS from you on every thread...such hypocrisy...do you ever have an original thought?...contribute to TVF through your vast knowledge and experience?  Lurking in the shadows...waiting for your opportunity to pounce on every word of those that think differently from you...does not add to the conversation...and makes you appear a bit shallow...????

 

Now go whine about how you are being misrepresented...????

Rather beneath your usually misguided arguments. His point was it didn't matter WHAT was inserted, it would still be nonsensical <deleted>. And suggesting he go whine somewhere is borderline trolling. C'mon, you're better than that.

[Puchaiyank]

1 minute ago, J Town said:

Apples and apples, but different cases. Nail Biden with just as much vehemence, but you can't use the "Biden did it so why can't Trump?" defense.

Not trying to...Biden is hoping to get by without having to answer for his actions as VP...the press and Dem House of Representatives...without some pressure from the Republicans...will simply say it is dirty politics...while playing dirty politics themselves...

[xylophone]

7 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

LOL. That house of cards is faaaaaaaalling fast. Surreal how the reps and his base cannot see his immorality. Really really strange.

There is something VERY rotten in the "kingdom of Trump" and most of it is there for all to see.

 

And whilst he lies continually, I do believe that most of the time he cannot tell the difference between the truth, lies and the "somewhere in between" which he makes up in that tiny mind of his.

 

To protect his position and to enable him to keep lying and pushing the boundaries of common decency and respect expected of the POTUS, he has surrounded himself with more dubious characters and liars, all the time publicly declaring that he only surrounded himself with the "best people", some of whom are serving/pending jail sentences or similar.

 

It seems that Trumps lack of intelligence, duplicity and understanding of even the simplest of things knows no bounds, this as he plugs his son's book whilst accusing Bidens of self-dealing......."on Monday, Trump used his Twitter feed to publicise a new book by his eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., telling his 66.5 million followers that they should "Go order it today!"

And yet one more instance which should alarm the majority of intelligent people, even his supporters on this thread, "More than 11,000 scientists from around the world declare a 'climate emergency'. As Trump formally pulls out of landmark Paris climate agreement!

Why oh why a lying imbecile such as this has any following whatsoever is really hard to fathom, but he does, and some of it is very evident on TV. Unbelievable.

[spidermike007]

Trump is going down, and it is happening quickly. His defenders could make a reasonable argument about the Russian collusion accusations. But between Ukraine, and his absolutely inane and ill informed decisions on Syria, it is absolutely clear that he is totally unfit for the job, that he is a huge liability for the GOP, and that he does not have the well being, safety, and interests of the American people, as his main priority. He is a traitor. He needs to be removed, charged, or imprisoned as soon as possible. 

[J Town]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

<snip> it is absolutely clear that he [Trump] is totally unfit for the job, that he is a huge liability for the GOP <snip>

The Kentucky election results just made that ABUNDANTLY clear.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by J Town
clarity

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, J Town said:

The Kentucky election results just made that ABUNDANTLY clear.

 

 

Virginia too!

[Berkshire]

9 minutes ago, J Town said:

The Kentucky election results just made that ABUNDANTLY clear.

 

 

Yeap, and Trump was just there, practically begging the voters of Kentucky to bail him out....

 

“If you lose, they will say Trump suffered the greatest defeat in the history of the world,” said Trump, pointing at a bank of news cameras. “You can’t let that happen to me, and you can’t let that happen to your incredible state.”

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kentucky-outcome-embarrasses-trump-and-worries-many-republicans-ahead-of-2020/ar-AAJUSgL?ocid=wispr

 

 

[Jingthing]

Yes, this upset of 45 in KY is truly delicious! More, more, more! I'm not even close to being tired of winning … 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Jingthing

[J Town]

The recently released transcripts show that most Republicans weren't even bothering to show UP to those committee hearings they so publicly protested to be let into. If people are paying attention then they will see the scoundrels Republican politicians have become. Lindsey Graham publicly stated he won't even LOOK at the evidence cuz he "feels it's all BS." Beyond shameful how anyone can still defend this behavior!

[bristolboy]

6 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Typical American politics...may the liar with the best story win the contest.

 

This impeachment inquiry smells exactly like the Russia probe...

 

A "Hail Mary" by the Dems who know they have no chance to defeat Trump in the 2020 General Election.

 

Sad to see how far American politics have fallen into dysfunction...????

 

 

Typical Trump supporter deflection. When the facts go against you, make allegations about motive or refer to another investigation.

[bristolboy]

5 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

Surely "extortion" is when you are demanding money from another party !

No, it's when you're demanding something from somebody, be it money or services, upon pain of  illegitimate retribution f you don't. Keep in mind that services do have monetary value.

Edited November 6, 2019 by bristolboy