O/A visa and insurance experience today

[Martyp]

2 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

yes as stated before if the risk pool is high risk, as in this case being all over 50 year olds, then the premium will be high too.

 

the whole idea of insurance is that the sum of claims paid out is equal (minus a profit for the insurance company*) to the sum of premiums taken in.

 

free market principles dictate where the profit margin sits unless a cartel has been formed.

 

 

Yeah.

 

It is crazy that you have to explain how insurance works. It is crazy that so many people jump to conspiracy theories when confronted with something they don’t like. But the Immigration Department has left a vacuum of information surrounding this policy and its implementation. People are naturally going to fill in the spaces.

[Sheryl]

4 minutes ago, spetersen said:

This thread is getting more and more confusing the more you read. For us who entered the country several years ago initially on a O-A visa and reside here now on an extension of stay based on retirement, does the new health insurance requirements apply to us as well ? Thankful for a clarification...

It appears at this stage that different Imm offices have different interpretations on this point, Best to ask yours.

[Martyp]

4 minutes ago, spetersen said:

This thread is getting more and more confusing the more you read. For us who entered the country several years ago initially on a O-A visa and reside here now on an extension of stay based on retirement, does the new health insurance requirements apply to us as well ? Thankful for a clarification...

That is my current status too. The OP and a couple of others have given direct experience regarding OA visa holders. I think it is best to see what happens to people on extensions of stay. Both when they enter the country and when they apply for their next extension of stay. No need to speculate any more. Just wait for the reports.

[GeorgeCross]

10 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Yes very sad and very worrying also if you try to stay on a long term vision here.

If i am right it's the first time a law affect the visa holders with retroactive action

 

second, they changed the rules with regard to financials too.

 

800K must be in bank for 5 months & 400K in all year instead of just 2 months pre-extension

 

when i realised that grandfathering was dead for a second time i activated plan B

 

not going to wait for the next general's whim immigration order. good luck to those that do though!

 

 

[uncleeagle]

7 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Yeah.

 

It is crazy that you have to explain how insurance works. It is crazy that so many people jump to conspiracy theories when confronted with something they don’t like. But the Immigration Department has left a vacuum of information surrounding this policy and its implementation. People are naturally going to fill in the spaces.

 

Nobody is confused by what insurance is and how it works, I dont know why you think that. The question is what is the ball park fair value, if it were a free market, of the OA insurance policies we have been discussing, for each over 50 age bracket and are the insurance companies charging far higher than they should be, taking advantage of the situation they know these over 50 visa holders are now in.

[LivinLOS]

16 minutes ago, spetersen said:

This thread is getting more and more confusing the more you read. For us who entered the country several years ago initially on a O-A visa and reside here now on an extension of stay based on retirement, does the new health insurance requirements apply to us as well ? Thankful for a clarification...

Likely yes. 

 

At renewal of permission of stay, it seems you will need insurance.

[Pattaya46]

5 hours ago, Max69xl said:

An immigration officer at the largest airport in Thailand is supposed to be able to read a police order in thai and understand it. And if they don't understand, why not ask someone who should know? The police order was released in April,over 6 months ago. 

And what allow you to say that they understand it wrong ?? 

Are you yourself able to understand the original police order in Thai ?   (I don't)

[zydeco]

After reading through this topic and a couple of others on the subject, I think it's pretty clear that the way to figure out how the law will apply is to figure out the greatest harm and cost to the expat and the greatest profit for the government and insurance companies. That will be the answer.

[Mango Bob]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And Pacific Cross has confirmed that their policy holders can choose ANY  deductible level they wish, and doing so will NOT cause any problem with their O-A certified policies being accepted and receiving the required insurance certificate for Immigration.

 

I was told the same thing by one of their agents.

[Martyp]

23 minutes ago, uncleeagle said:

 

Nobody is confused by what insurance is and how it works, I dont know why you think that. The question is what is the ball park fair value, if it were a free market, of the OA insurance policies we have been discussing, for each over 50 age bracket and are the insurance companies charging far higher than they should be, taking advantage of the situation they know these over 50 visa holders are now in.

I’m thinking this way because the primary reason the prices are high is because of the limited pool of older customers. If they are charging higher prices yet because of circumstances of the immigration policy then of course that would not be right. The question is what percent of the fees are justified or not? There is more than one company. You would expect there to be some price competition in all this. On the other hand the total pool of potential customers may be so small that it is hard to sort any of this out. Which brings up the question of what percentage of retirees are here on OA visas in the first place?

Edited November 6, 2019 by Martyp

[brianj1964]

I totally agree that insurance cover is needed but why won't they accept policies bought at home?

at the desk where they moved me to there was a German fellow who said he had a far superior policy with AXA and I clearly heard her say they couldn't accept his insurance and they seemed to be telling him it had to be one of the Thai approved companies.

ive read people's comments on other threads saying they have this policy from home country but have any of them actually been allowed to present it at immigration?

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

This is the problem, they've increased the prices and made a very short list of expensive policies which are the only policies accepted.

 

The whole thing is a scam by the government working together with the insurance industry.

 

They must think we're too stupid to notice. I can't wait for this to hit the media around the world.

 

There is big money in this and I wonder how many people are feeding from this trough. How much was it worth for the select few insurance companies that made it onto the lonstay.tgia.org list? How much flows into the trough with every policy sold?

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

And when given 30 days to extend, do they 'only' need insurance or must money again be seasoned for 2/3 months ?? So a timeline longer than the 30 day period of stay admitted until. 

The implications of this mess keep growing.. 

 

They way I understand it, it will not an extension but an amendment of the UNTIL date on the arrival stamp.

[Max69xl]

48 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Yeah.

 

It is crazy that you have to explain how insurance works. It is crazy that so many people jump to conspiracy theories when confronted with something they don’t like. But the Immigration Department has left a vacuum of information surrounding this policy and its implementation. People are naturally going to fill in the spaces.

I don't actually think the police order is very confusing,the problem is immigration officers not understanding it. 

[Martyp]

10 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

I totally agree that insurance cover is needed but why won't they accept policies bought at home?

at the desk where they moved me to there was a German fellow who said he had a far superior policy with AXA and I clearly heard her say they couldn't accept his insurance and they seemed to be telling him it had to be one of the Thai approved companies.

ive read people's comments on other threads saying they have this policy from home country but have any of them actually been allowed to present it at immigration?

There is a form that can be downloaded and signed by a foreign insurance company. Everyone says a foreign insurance company would never sign the form. So far I’ve only seen one post of someone claiming to have used the form but we don’t have any details on that. 

[Max69xl]

7 minutes ago, Brer said:

To clarify what’s right on arriving on O/A I will ask a friend of a friend of a friend who sisters brother is arriving.

Dont believe the previous posters and no evidence and a deliberate attempt to stir things up.

Many of us have read the police order and it's in my opinion not that hard to understand. The problem will most likely be the confusion at local immigration offices and immigration at Suvarnabhumi.  

[Martyp]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

Many of us have read the police order and it's in my opinion not that hard to understand. The problem will most likely be the confusion at local immigration offices and immigration at Suvarnabhumi.  

Of course. The OP understood it too but couldn’t convince the IOs though he got lucky to be stamped in for a year anyway by a different IO. Maybe this will sort itself out over time. In the meantime it is a real concern for those traveling now. And there is more to come as we hear about people applying for 1 year extensions.

[Maestro]

1 hour ago, Genericnic said:

Visa exempt stamps would be appropriate if they are coming from one of the countries entitled to them, e.g. US, UK, etc. For non-visa exempt countries, they would have to do a VOA (visa on arrival) if they are qualified for that...

 

Not necessarily.

 

The one-year permission to stay for a foreigner arriving with an O-A visa is not mandatory. "Not exceeding one year" is the rule (paragraph 1 of section 35 of the Immigration Act)

[Maestro]

33 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

I totally agree that insurance cover is needed but why won't they accept policies bought at home?

at the desk where they moved me to there was a German fellow who said he had a far superior policy with AXA and I clearly heard her say they couldn't accept his insurance and they seemed to be telling him it had to be one of the Thai approved companies.

ive read people's comments on other threads saying they have this policy from home country but have any of them actually been allowed to present it at immigration?

 

Did they have this insurance certificate?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VeQbGym2s3zIBtdAYTRyTQFZ4RbytkSe

 

[david555]

2 hours ago, brianj1964 said:

That was EXACTLY what they said to me, I accepted their offer because I had been standing for 2 hours and I wanted out of there, though when I went back to the passport control the girl with a senior colleague looking over her stamped me in for the year 

looks like I was lucky 

oh just another example from TIT. different desk different person or time , or just she could read the orders properly ….. your lucky … but annoying situation for all those with O-A visa  before that date it is demanded

[GeorgeCross]

18 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Many of us have read the police order and it's in my opinion not that hard to understand. The problem will most likely be the confusion at local immigration offices and immigration at Suvarnabhumi.  

 

hahahaha you kidding right??

 

if by not easy to understand you mean 2 distinct camps claiming polar opposites of their interpretation of the order and split roughly 50:50? then yes, not that hard to understand at all!

 

 

 

[Maestro]

22 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Many of us have read the police order and it's in my opinion not that hard to understand. The problem will most likely be the confusion at local immigration offices and immigration at Suvarnabhumi.  

 

For the immigration officials at the entry points (airports, land borders) it is the Memorandum 0029.161/W 4603 dated 27.09.2019 they have to understand and implement, not the Police Order 548/2562.

[Sheryl]

54 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

I was told the same thing by one of their agents.

I was initially too but they just clarified this was a mistake. Can't take a deductible on a polucy issued to meet Imm requirements.

[Sheryl]

47 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

I totally agree that insurance cover is needed but why won't they accept policies bought at home?

at the desk where they moved me to there was a German fellow who said he had a far superior policy with AXA and I clearly heard her say they couldn't accept his insurance and they seemed to be telling him it had to be one of the Thai approved companies.

ive read people's comments on other threads saying they have this policy from home country but have any of them actually been allowed to present it at immigration?

You are supposed to be able to use it on the first entry only and then only if they sign the designated certificate which you will find available for download on the tgia site.

 

Since the certificate asks them to attest that your policy complies with a Thai Cabinet resolution which they have not read, won't be easy.

[AAArdvark]

I am on the first year of an O-A.  I will be re-entering Thailand at DMK in a couple of weeks.  What can I expect?

[Thaidream]

45 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Many of us have read the police order and it's in my opinion not that hard to understand. The problem will most likely be the confusion at local immigration offices and immigration at Suvarnabhumi.  

Agreed-  even the Thai veresion states the order applies only to O-A Visa's issued after 31 Octobere 2019.  

 

How can a law/order/regulation apply to anyone who has a Visa/extension stamp  PRIOR to 31 October 2019.  This would make the change retroactive which in every country I have ever been- not only unfair but illegal.

 

If this is indeed the case- letters need to be written to the isuing Thai Embassy/Consulate with copies to the Foreign Minister- Ministry of Foreign Affairs and  the Health Minister-  Ministry of Health.   I can't remember if Thailand has an Attorney General but they also need to be notified.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Thaidream

[david555]

3 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

I am on the first year of an O-A.  I will be re-entering Thailand at DMK in a couple of weeks.  What can I expect?

I suggest keep reading as it is now all new and all mixing up who see it which IO. way by arrival 

[britishjohn]

When you enter the country on an OA in your first year you get a permission to stay for another year which allows you to get up to 2 years out of it before extending.

Maybe I got this all wrong but as I understand it, your permission to stay will only be granted for the insurance period.

If your insurance policy expires lets say around the same time as your visa, how will you be able to get an extra year out of it unless you take out a two year health policy ?

[GeorgeCross]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

Agreed-  even the Thai veresion steates the order applies only to O-A Visa's issued after 31 Octobere 2019.  

 

How can a law/order/regulation apply to anyone who has a Visa/extension stamp  PRIOR to 31 October 2019.  This would make the change retroactive which in every country I have ever been- not only unfair but illegal.

 

If this is indeed the case- letters need to be written to the isuing Thai Embassy/Consulate with copies to the Foreign Minister- Ministry of Foreign Affairs and  the Health Minister-  Ministry of Health.   I can't remember if Thailand has an Attorney General but they also need to be notified.

 

 

unfair maybe but illegal? doubt it, their country, their rules.

 

they changed the retirement extension financials retroactively this year too. maybe advise them of this too. 

 

let us know how you get on 

 

 

 

[david555]

if they are difficult on this already , how they go treat the ones trying to change their non O-A to  the non"O".....? If they see started with the Non O-A