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O/A visa and insurance experience today


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1 hour ago, Maestro said:
2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Many of us have read the police order and it's in my opinion not that hard to understand. The problem will most likely be the confusion at local immigration offices and immigration at Suvarnabhumi.  

 

For the immigration officials at the entry points (airports, land borders) it is the Memorandum 0029.161/W 4603 dated 27.09.2019 they have to understand and implement, not the Police Order 548/2562.

I think you nailed it there.

 

These early reports indicate IOs at the airport are following the memorandum correctly "effective from October 31st, 2019 onwards"

 

Now we just need to wait to see how IOs doing extensions of stay follow the police order. If they do follow it as written, this will apply to all O-A extensions of stay.

 

The wording looks very clear to me. No implied grandfathering.

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9 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

So if I buy Thai insurance now just to ensure I'm allowed in, when I come to apply for an extension in 3 months, I would only get an extension for 9 months and not a year !

I would discuss your plan with your insurance agent and see if they could synchronize your coverage with your extension date and adjust the fee accordingly. 

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13 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

So if I buy Thai insurance now just to ensure I'm allowed in, when I come to apply for an extension in 3 months, I would only get an extension for 9 months and not a year !

Talk with your insurance agent.  I was told they would refund you for the 3 months and start a new policy at the time for your next extension.

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1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

The doccument I refer to is the actual Police Order in English and Thai which gives the effective date as 31 October 2019 and states only applies to O-A Visa.

 

The other Memoranda  refer to implementation- such as the Embassy marking the passport with a note re insurance.  Others refer to extnesions but my thinking is that the extension requirements apply only to  an O-A issued after  October 31, 2019 as at some point the person may go out of Thailand and re-enter (show the insurance again) and eventually some will extend their stay for a year by going to  Immigration- since the original O-A will be dated after 31 October 2019- subject to insurance.

 

In none of the docucments I have read does it say the order applies to anyone having an O-A original Visa PRIOR to 31 October 2019.   If the intent was to make this order retroactive- IMO it would have to have some implementation memo saying that was the case.  Have I missed seeing this docucment and does it exist?

 

Thank you. I can see it more clearly now. Two excerpts from Police Order 548/2562:

 

548 Effective as of p1.png

 

548 Effective as of p2.png

 

Looking at these two excerpts next to each other I must admit that it does not seem unreasonable to interpret the opening line of the new clause 2.22(60) to mean "Only an alien who has been granted a Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A before 31 October 2019 must buy..."

 

Personally, I never made that link but you have made me think now and much as I would hate this to be the case I still believe that 2.22(6) is meant to apply for any foreigner who at any time in the past arrived in Thailand with an O-A visa and at that time was given permission to stay (arrival stamp) on the basis of that visa and optionally subsequently got extensions of that permission to stay.

 

We shall have to wait and see how this plays out but the reports from members so far do not look promising.

 

P.S. Having had another look at clause 2.22 I see that there seems, in fact, to be some grandfathering in 2.22(7), but only for foreigners who entered Thailand before 21 October 1998.

Edited by Maestro
added postscript
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3 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

Thank you. I can see it more clearly now. Two excerpts from Police Order 548/2562:

 

548 Effective as of p1.png

 

548 Effective as of p2.png

 

Looking at these two excerpts next to each other I must admit that it does not seem unreasonable to interpret the opening line of the new clause 2.22(60) to mean "Only an alien who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A before 31 October 2019 must buy..."

 

Personally, I never made that link but you have made me think now and much as I would hate this to be the case I still believe that 2.22(6) is meant to apply for any foreigner who at any time in the past arrived in Thailand with an O-A visa and at that time was given permission to stay (arrival stamp) on the basis of that visa.

 

We shall have to wait and see how this plays out but the reports from members so far do not look promising.

I cant read it that way.. 

 

Effective from this date.... The following conditions must be met... 

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1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

I cant read it that way.. 

 

Effective from this date.... The following conditions must be met... 

Yep, that's how i read it... Effective 31st October anybody entering on/extending a Non-OA has to have insurance 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

IMO since insurance is mandatory for an O-A and if indeed they make it retroactive there must be a provision for someone who cannot not obtain the insurance.  A letter of denial from one of the companies  should make the requirement waived

It's not retroactive, people who are already in the country may stay even without insurance, until their permission of stay ends.

But from now on, if you enter Thailand on a non-OA visa, you are required to have health insurance.

 

Thailand doesn't offer a visa for everybody in every situation, if somebody doesn't fullfill the requirements he just can't get this visa.

Using your argumentation we could also demand that for somebody without Thai family and who isn't working or studying in Thailand, Thailand should waive the 50 year age requirement for the non-OA visa to allow this person to stay longer in Thailand.

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21 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

My mate just arrived today at Swampy and was told exactly the same. Given 30days, told to get insurance, go out of Thaialnd & return within 30 days.

Why "Go out of Thailand"?  Can't he get the insurance and just go to the local immigration?

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2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It’s clear in the police order. 
 

you did notice the effective date?

Which means that everybody entering after this date needs to fulfill the requirements.

Doesn't matter when the visa was issued, unless there would be a specific paragraph stating that visas issued prior to this date were exempt, but looks like this doesn't exist.

 

Just now, AAArdvark said:

Why "Go out of Thailand"?  Can't he get the insurance and just go to the local immigration?

I think you can't activate an entry of a visa which you got outside of Thailand while being in Thailand, afaik this is only possible if you got the visa in Thailand.

Edited by jackdd
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3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I have had contact with a gentleman who is currently using an extension of stay that was given prior to October the 31st. He entered BKK airport today (November 6) with a reentry permit. No insurance was required 

 

He felt that his experience would be of benefit. As I don’t know the policy of linking to outside websites here is his report.

 

Superb.. as expected and as per the logic and text of the law imo. 

Starting to feel like for all the criticism, they have got this exactly right, as per the text of the law, in all the reported locations so far. Shocked !! 

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Almost certainly insurance  will be required when you enter Thailand if you have had to have insurance when you apply for an extension, as that information is in the police order and your permission to stay is governed by the period of your insurance if that is shorter than you would otherwise get.

 

But as has now been proved insurance is (almost certainly) not required if you did not need insurance for your  extension.

Edited by sometimewoodworker
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3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

But as has now been proved insurance is (almost certainly) not required if you did not need insurance for your visa or extension.

How was this proved? Here were reports of two people who got a visa exempt stamp because they didn't have the insurance when they entered Thailand. This actually disproved what you say.

Edited by jackdd
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4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

How was this proved? Here were reports of two people who got a visa exempt stamp because they didn't have the insurance when they entered Thailand. This actually disproved what you say.

 

4 today by my count.

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23 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

I cant read it that way.. 

 

Effective from this date.... The following conditions must be met... 

 

It is the "...have been granted...", without indication of the date when the O-A was granted, that I take to mean granted at any time prior to the application for extension.

 

Incidentally, I believe that "was granted" would have been a more accurate translation than "has been granted"

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8 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Which means that everybody entering after this date needs to fulfill the requirements.

Doesn't matter when the visa was issued, unless there would be a specific paragraph stating that visas issued prior to this date were exempt, but looks like this doesn't exist.

 

I think you can't activate an entry of a visa which you got outside of Thailand while being in Thailand, afaik this is only possible if you got the visa in Thailand.

This is not what an immigration officer told another guy at the airport. He got 30 days to get an insurance in Thailand and then go to the local Immigration office to activate his O-A Visa.

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16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I have had contact with a gentleman who is currently using an extension of stay that was given prior to October the 31st. He entered BKK airport today (November 6) with a reentry permit. No insurance was required 

 

This topic is about entry with an O-A visa (obtained from a Thai embassy or consulate), not about entry with a re-entry permit.

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1 hour ago, Mango Bob said:

I was told this yesterday by the agent.  It is only on certain policies not all of them.  The Standard Extra policy they said I could.

The Standard Extra has a max of 780000 so if one takes off the the max deductible of 300000 it leaves a cover of 480000. This is my understanding. And would make sense for the hospitals as many bills will exceed the puny 400000 required by Immifrakkinggration.

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