O/A visa and insurance experience today

[GeorgeCross]

11 hours ago, Thaidream said:

If they came up with a reasonable insurance plan; based upon  a system that does not  prohibit  pre existing conditions; or limit people because of age and make the insurance pool 0-100 instead of 50-75- expats would buy in.

 

can under 50s can already apply?

 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[LivinLOS]

12 hours ago, Thaidream said:

If they came up with a reasonable insurance plan; based upon  a system that does not  prohibit  pre existing conditions; or limit people because of age and make the insurance pool 0-100 instead of 50-75- expats would buy in.

The suggestion of widening the insurance pool means that it spreads the burden to the younger (presumably Thai) contributors to the system.. 

 

Why should Thais of any age, share the burden of the specific 'aged non Thai' pool of retirees who need insuring ?? 

 

This is what I fail to see about suggestions of older farangs joining Thai social security for a few 100 a month, when that means that they are being supported by the young thai contributions to the pool.. Whats in it for them ?? 

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, GeorgeCross said:

can under 50s can already apply

The whole purpose of insurance is to  create a  large pool of people from every age group.  Since there are statistically more people in the 0-50 age group than 50-100 age group- if eveyone buys in- the younger age group who uses it less subsidizes the upper age groups and everyone wins.

 

Thailand has picked the worst possible scenario forcing people into an age group of 50-75 ensuring higher premiums; in adition not providing any coverage for people over the age of 75 or at least excluding this age group from coverage.  

 

In the Industrialized World- no  Insurance Commission or regulatory agency would allow this type of system.  It serves no purpose to the public and only exists for the insurance industry to make windfall profits.  Unfortunately, in Thailand - the Insurance regulatory system is weak and favors the Companies and not the public.

[LivinLOS]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The whole purpose of insurance is to  create a  large pool of people from every age group.  Since there are statistically more people in the 0-50 age group than 50-100 age group- if eveyone buys in- the younger age group who uses it less subsidizes the upper age groups and everyone wins.

No the upper age groups win. 

Different if your a national of your own home country and pay into the system over a lifetime.. Unbelievable to expect to come to a poor developing world country, one which has only just recently started a national healthcare system for its own people and still argue over if it should continue in its current form, and then expect those developing world people to 'subsidize the upper age groups' of comparatively wealthy retirees who choose to come there. 

 

Thats mind blowing in its entitlement to me. 

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Different if your a national of your own home country and pay into the system over a lifetime.. Unbelievable to expect to come to a poor developing world country, one which has only just recently started a national healthcare system for its own people and still argue over if it should continue in its current form, and then expect those developing world people to 'subsidize the upper age groups' of comparatively wealthy retirees who choose to come there. 

 I pay the hospital bill when I go, nobody seems to be subsidising me.

Don't see how buying an insurance policy which won't pay for any treatment I currently need helps me or the hospital.

Does the insurance company contribute part of the policy fee to the hospital system every year?

 

If I were a foreigner in the UK and paid to join the NHS, they'd get the whole 400 pounds I paid every year.

Edited November 29, 2019 by BritManToo

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

The suggestion of widening the insurance pool means that it spreads the burden to the younger (presumably Thai) contributors to the system.. 

 

Why should Thais of any age, share the burden of the specific 'aged non Thai' pool of retirees who need insuring ?? 

 

This is what I fail to see about suggestions of older farangs joining Thai social security for a few 100 a month, when that means that they are being supported by the young thai contributions to the pool.. Whats in it for them ??

Firstly- Healthcare is not a burden it is considered  a human right.

 

Thailand has for decades established a marketing and PR stratedgy  to get foreigners to come to Thailand and  also a retirment program aimed at people 50 plus. IHowever, Thailand can change it's mind and develop a system to be more restrictive on foreigners aiming to retire in Thailand.

 

If Thailand was  smart- it would realize that  by providing no reasonable access to this change for many already in Thailand for decades  or at least grandfathering  prior O-A holders- it faces really bad publicity especially if  social media picks up  problems of aging foreigners being forced out of Thailand.

 

Insteady- they have picked a system to retroactively apply a change; refused to recognize foreign insurance and  forcing  foreigners to use 12 Thai insurance companies  at inflated prices and  put  many aged people who have ived in Thailand for decades to be left without any access to insurance.

 

So what's in it for Thailand to develop a system to allow foreigners to 'buy into their current Government Health care system.  Money- and using some of that money to shore up it's  Government System which is under funded- not becuase of losses  due to foreigners but losses due to poor citizens using the 30 Baht scheme.

 

I/m mot suggesting we , as non citizens, pay the same monthly premiums as Thais- I am saying that  the Thai Government could come up with a monthly price that allows foreigners full healthcare; dental and vision.  For example if a pirce of $150 per month was placed on the buy in- this would mean an expat would pay$1800 per year x 80,000 long stayers.  The first year the fund would have $144 Million dollars.  A person would pay the first year and  the healthcare available in year 2.

 

At the same time-the Thai Government places a 500Baht medical  cost on every air ticket sold to foreigners visiting Thailand.  In other words, 30 Million people at $16 per ticket generate a pool of $480 million per year.  Throw in a 1,000 Baht co-pay to stop people running to the doctor for  colds etc and Thailand has  a huge pot of available money to treat foreigners and  use any excess to shore up it hospital system.

[Langsuan Man]

Almost as if by divine intervention I just received a notice from Blue Cross / Blue Shield, Federal Employees Program, that effective in 2020 they will waive all co-pays for foreign insurance claims for all Standard option members.  Useless in the future for Thailand

 

 

   

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

Almost as if by divine intervention I just received a notice from Blue Cross / Blue Shield, Federal Employees Program, that effective in 2020 they will waive all co-pays for foreign insurance claims for all Standard option members.  Useless in the future for Thailand

 

 

   

Not useless for actual coverage however.  I hope nobody actually stops such unlimited coverage for what is being required for the O-A visa.

[Langsuan Man]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Not useless for actual coverage however.  I hope nobody actually stops such unlimited coverage for what is being required for the O-A visa.

First line of the overseas claim form is your information, then the requirement to list any other insurance you may have, including the useless Thai insurance that is being forced upon us, thus begins your fight to obtain your actual coverage benefits you pay for  

[LivinLOS]

47 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 I pay the hospital bill when I go, nobody seems to be subsidising me.

Don't see how buying an insurance policy which won't pay for any treatment I currently need helps me or the hospital.

Does the insurance company contribute part of the policy fee to the hospital system every year?

 

If I were a foreigner in the UK and paid to join the NHS, they'd get the whole 400 pounds I paid every year.

I am not disputing this.. 

 

People who can insure or self insure (really !!) are not being subsidized. Its the folks who are saying they should be entitled to join the Thai social schemes, and be subsidized by young Thai contributors to the pool, in order to lower the aged non Thai costs, who I think are dreaming. 

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

I am not disputing this.. 

 

People who can insure or self insure (really !!) are not being subsidized. Its the folks who are saying they should be entitled to join the Thai social schemes, and be subsidized by young Thai contributors to the pool, in order to lower the aged non Thai costs, who I think are dreaming. 

Don't agree.

Thai SS payments cost around 500bht/month, the extra expense to the system is negligible even for a person that requires substantial care. You're confusing an American profit making system with a Social care system. The facilities, doctors and staff in the social system will still be purchased/paid and sitting there even if there are no patients. The only extra charge to the system  for foreign patients is the consumables each individual patient uses. The consumables in Thailand cost very little money if you remove 'profit' from the equation.

 

I have Thai children, why shouldn't I be allowed to join the Thai social system?

(Not that I would for sure, as my medical expenses even with a serious ongoing illness that will eventually kill me only cost me around 100bht/month)

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

55 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I/m mot suggesting we , as non citizens, pay the same monthly premiums as Thais-

Why not?

I have a Thai family and children, why shouldn't I pay the same monthly premium as a Thai?

I import enough money to support a family and household of five, and have been for the past ten years.

[lopburi3]

21 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

First line of the overseas claim form is your information, then the requirement to list any other insurance you may have, including the useless Thai insurance that is being forced upon us, thus begins your fight to obtain your actual coverage benefits you pay for  

Actually since the change from AXA to GMMI this year my claims have been very quickly paid and believe that required immigration policy would be secondary insurance (if it were employment provided or auto it would be primary).  In worst case if secondary you would file after filing local insurance.  Yet another monkey wrench in the cocktail.

[LivinLOS]

39 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Firstly- Healthcare is not a burden it is considered  a human right.

LOL Tell that to the people paying the taxes.. Healthcare is not a human right, any more than demanding people work for free, or be subsidized by others in any other field is a human right.. 

 

You want healthcare.. Pay for it.. Or go to developed world country where you contribute over a lifetime and are provided it. 

 

Quote

Thailand has for decades established a marketing and PR stratedgy  to get foreigners to come to Thailand and  also a retirment program aimed at people 50 plus. IHowever, Thailand can change it's mind and develop a system to be more restrictive on foreigners aiming to retire in Thailand.

And yet Thailand hasnt even 'for decades' had national healthcare of its own citizens, now its a human right for compartively wealthy non Thais to come here and make use of ?? 

 

Quote

 

So what's in it for Thailand to develop a system to allow foreigners to 'buy into their current Government Health care system.  Money- and using some of that money to shore up it's  Government System which is under funded- not becuase of losses  due to foreigners but losses due to poor citizens using the 30 Baht scheme.

 

I/m mot suggesting we , as non citizens, pay the same monthly premiums as Thais- I am saying that  the Thai Government could come up with a monthly price that allows foreigners full healthcare; dental and vision.  For example if a pirce of $150 per month was placed on the buy in- this would mean an expat would pay$1800 per year x 80,000 long stayers.  The first year the fund would have $144 Million dollars.  A person would pay the first year and  the healthcare available in year 2.

 

And the cost of that, as determined by the pool of insurers, is +- the cost of the insurance.. Why should government be cheaper ?? Especially in a country as notoriously corrupt as this one ?? The 'cost' for the 'service' on the older pool of non This has been calculated, its just no one wants to pay the bill !! 

 

Quote

At the same time-the Thai Government places a 500Baht medical  cost on every air ticket sold to foreigners visiting Thailand.  In other words, 30 Million people at $16 per ticket generate a pool of $480 million per year.  Throw in a 1,000 Baht co-pay to stop people running to the doctor for  colds etc and Thailand has  a huge pot of available money to treat foreigners and  use any excess to shore up it hospital system.

And put off those same tourists from coming and spending here, simply to benefit non Thais again.. 

This is a 3rd world / developing world country.. The concept that they should be doing things at a loss to help non Thais, when they have a huge long list of thier own things under funded, blows me away. 

There are many parts of this implementation I dont agree with, not accepting overseas policies with adequate cover, not accepting a locked emergency fund account, not accepting Thai social security recipients who have paid in.. But I wouldnt for a second think that they should involve themselves in any form of subsidy or non free enterprise solution (eg insurance companies) to the problem they wish to solve. 

[LivinLOS]

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Don't agree.

Thai SS payments cost around 500bht/month, the extra expense to the system is negligible even for a person that requires substantial care. You're confusing an American profit making system with a Social care system. The facilities, doctors and staff in the social system will still be purchased/paid and sitting there even if there are no patients. The only extra charge to the system  for foreign patients is the consumables each individual patient uses. The consumables in Thailand cost very little money if you remove 'profit' from the equation.

Yes Thai doctors nurses and specialists are just sitting around underworked waiting for the patient to treat. 

If you think aged farang retirees can be fully covered under any system for 500bht a month, of thier own unsubsidized contributions, I would love to see you attempt it. It only works when 10s of 1000s of younger healthy Thais pay into the system to subsidize it. 

[Peter Denis]

13 hours ago, Momofarang said:

... As far as I am concerned and even though I am on marriage extensions I will harden my defenses by getting a Non O, as well as a useless Pacific Cross insurance, if they want me...

Hi @Momofarang, from your post I understand that you are presently on an OA extension of stay based on Marriage.

I have seen no reports or any mention that an OA marriage Visa holder would be required to meet the health-insurance requirement at his next extension.

Or am I missing something?

[GeorgeCross]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Firstly- Healthcare is not a burden it is considered  a human right.

 

Thailand...

 

 

hahahaha...thailand...hahaha..human rights..lol

 

this is a very right wing nationalist country and they are NEVER going to ask their own citizens to subsidize 'rich' foreigners whatever the rest of the world aspires too

 

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[Max69xl]

38 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi @Momofarang, from your post I understand that you are presently on an OA extension of stay based on Marriage.

I have seen no reports or any mention that an OA marriage Visa holder would be required to meet the health-insurance requirement at his next extension.

Or am I missing something?

You haven't missed anything. It's just an O-A based on retirement that needs an insurance.

[brianj1964]

3 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You haven't missed anything. It's just an O-A based on retirement that needs an insurance.

I really don't understand the rational behind this? 80 year old married to a Thai on an O-A based on marriage doesn't require health insurance but anyone who is on an O-A based on retirement does, I'm 55 here on retirement and less likely to need the insurance than the above mentioned 80 year old ( touch wood) I applied for retirement because it was less hassle to do and I'm married to a Thai, when I do my next 90 day report I will enquire what's needed to get one based on marriage 

marriage certificate and 50% less money in the bank, anything else?

[Thaidream]

3 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

here are many parts of this implementation I dont agree with, not accepting overseas policies with adequate cover, not accepting a locked emergency fund account, not accepting Thai social security recipients who have paid in.. But I wouldnt for a second think that they should involve themselves in any form of subsidy or non free enterprise solution (eg insurance companies) to the problem they wish to solve. 

Sorry, couldn't disagree more with most of what you said and in fact if you had to argue your point before a Thai court or the Ministry of  Health- the Thais would love you and aplaud you for  accepting the corruption you continually point out.

 

You may not think  Healthcare is a human right but apparently all the countries in the World that provide National Healthcare do believe it is because they provide it.  In fact, since th 1930s the UK NHS has provided one of the best nationl healthcare systems in the World.  Throw in Canada; the rest of Europe; Japan; Singapore and it appears there are many countries that do provide National coverage for their citizens and resident foreigners.  Unfortunately my country, the US has  another model- no national healthcare and the highest ccost in the World. However,  70% of the US population want universal coverage, so it's coming and Big Insurance and Big Pharma are on their way out.

 

In addition the Universal Declaration of Human Rights indicates that everyone has a right to life and that includes healthcare to sustain one's life.  Since the majoiryt of the World signed the declaration to include Thailand- it looks like you are about the only person that seems to find it hard to believre that Hcealthare is a human right.

 

As far as Thais objeecting to a foreigner  getting Healthcare via the Government hospitals- it they did-object, we wouldn't be able to get treated there.

 

As I have already stated- Neither -  I or anyone else is advocating foreigners buy in at a higher rate than Thai citizens.or get free care in Thailand

 

All National Health Serevices in the World allow a buy in for foreigners at a rate higher than citizens pay. 

 

You may disagree with me- but you do not speak for the Thai population and suggesting they would object is absurd- esspecially at a rate of 4500 Baht per month when their rate is 457 Baht per month graduated upward by income level.

 

 I am not indicating this is the only way to do it  but an easy way to allow the system to function .  You asked the question- What does Thailand get and I stated money but also a simplified way of dealing with  poorly funded hospitals; as well as a requirement to have foreigners get healthcare coverage.

 

In addition- anyone residing in Thailand  who has adequate foreign coverage should be allowed.   Anyone who cannot get insurance should  have the requirment waived- they sign a statement indicating they will self fund.

 

You and I can argue the pro's and con's forever but neither you or I have any pull in the system.  That is why I and others wrote to the Embassy as they can actually generate some dialogue with the Thai Government. 

 

In the meantime,  I will be wateching for first hand reports of what happens  when people enter the airport or go to a partuclar immigration office with an O-A  for an extension.

 

The real answer to all this is for the Thai Government to grandfather all past O-A holders= they do this and the chaos stops. Eventually everyone currently in Thailand on any type of  long term Visa/extension either leaves permanently or dies and then Thailand is left with only those who enter after 31 Oct 2019  or possibly  no one with an O-A ss the majority will not come  under the current conditions.  

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Thaidream

[sscc]

Just sign up today.  My first post.  

 

Have rather simple questions about my plan as follows : 

/ Presently over 60 YO.    Received O-A  visa issued and stamped on passport before Oct 31, 2019.   

/ No Thai medical insurance.  Plan to enter the Kingdom at BKK airport around New Year Day Jan 1, 2020.

 

1.  May be not allowed entry on O-A Visa by IO at the airport due to lacking the insurance coverage ? 

2.  In case of holding up of O-A Visa,  may I enter the kingdom under 30-Day tourist exemption ?   ( Traveled and entered LOS on 3-0-Day tourist many times ) 

3   May I apply for the Thai medical insurance  400.000B/ 40,000B   while being a tourist in LOS ?    I.E.  Not having O Visa, can I as a tourist in LOS,  purchase Thai medical insurance in Thailand ?      

4   After I have the Thai medical insurance,  do I need to leave LOS and come back in to activate the O-A  Visa ?   Thinking of 1 day excursion to neighbor country. 

 

Those willing to reading my case,  and/or giving an opinion on the viability.   Thanks a lot. 

[JimGant]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The real answer to all this is for the Thai Government to grandfather all past O-A holders= they do this and the chaos stops. Eventually everyone currently in Thailand on any type of  long term Visa/extension either leaves permanently or dies and then Thailand is left with only those who enter after 21 Oct 2019  or possibly  no one with an O-A ss the majority will not come  under the current conditions.  

 

Amen.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

You may disagree with me- but you do not speak for the Thai population and suggesting they would object is absurd- esspecially at a rate of 4500 Baht per month when their rate is 457 Baht per month graduated upward by income level.

Just a small point, but Thailand is a third world country with low wages compared to the west.

NHS want 625 pounds/year to buy in, that's 50 pounds/month (2,000bht).

Why are you suggesting Thailand charges double when it's wages and costs are 1/10?

 

I think Thai the current price of around 500bht is the right price.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, sscc said:

2.  In case of holding up of O-A Visa,  may I enter the kingdom under 30-Day tourist exemption ?   ( Traveled and entered LOS on 3-0-Day tourist many times ) 

Yes, they'll let you in on 30 day VISA waiver, to allow you time to arrange insurance.

(Already reported in a previous post)

3. Yes, 4. Yes.

Edited November 29, 2019 by BritManToo

[moontang]

A lot of this talk somehow reminds me of my university infirmary at a state school in Virginia.  Higher GDP, with one eighth the population compared to LOS.  Healthcare was free at the infirmary for all students, it was part of the already subsidized tuition.  But, there was a long-standing joke that no matter what your sickness, ailment, or injury was..the treatment was always the same:. Sudafed and a few packets of salt to gargle with.  The newspaper even did a cartoon of a guy showing off his remedies as he was being dumped out of his wheelchair, bandaged head to toe, by the clinic exit.  Be careful what you wish for..

 

 

[AAArdvark]

4 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

However,  70% of the US population want universal coverage, so it's coming and Big Insurance and Big Pharma are on their way out.

 

I believe that is wishful thinking.  As soon as someone uses the word "socialism" far too many people will think it will lead to communism.  Those who have employer paid insurance, in many cases, they are happy with what they have and they are afraid of change.  Throw in the zillions of dollars the insurance companies and big Pharma spend on propaganda, it becomes very difficult for change to happen.  Couple all that with the common American belief that the US has the best healthcare in the world, despite the evidence to the contrary, make things even worse.

I hope I am wrong but I doubt it.

[Peter Denis]

21 minutes ago, sscc said:

Just sign up today.  My first post.  

 

Have rather simple questions about my plan as follows : 

/ Presently over 60 YO.    Received O-A  visa issued and stamped on passport before Oct 31, 2019.   

/ No Thai medical insurance.  Plan to enter the Kingdom at BKK airport around New Year Day Jan 1, 2020.

 

1.  May be not allowed entry on O-A Visa by IO at the airport due to lacking the insurance coverage ? 

2.  In case of holding up of O-A Visa,  may I enter the kingdom under 30-Day tourist exemption ?   ( Traveled and entered LOS on 3-0-Day tourist many times ) 

3   May I apply for the Thai medical insurance  400.000B/ 40,000B   while being a tourist in LOS ?    I.E.  Not having O Visa, can I as a tourist in LOS,  purchase Thai medical insurance in Thailand ?      

4   After I have the Thai medical insurance,  do I need to leave LOS and come back in to activate the O-A  Visa ?   Thinking of 1 day excursion to neighbor country. 

 

Those willing to reading my case,  and/or giving an opinion on the viability.   Thanks a lot. 

You will NOT be queried for health-insurance when entering Thailand with your pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa.

You will be stamped in for a full year permission to stay (as you are entitled to from your OA Visa) from the day you enter Thailand (e.g. Jan 3rd 2020 > permission to stay till Jan 2nd 2021).

When you exit and re-enter Thailand before the validity of your pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa expires, you will be once again stamped in for a full year permission to stay.

During that second period you will need to buy a re-entry permit before exiting and re-entering Thailand, otherwise your permission to stay will be voided.

The health-insurance requirement will only kick in when you apply for an extension of stay based on your original OA Visa.  That date is almost 2 years down the road, so you have all the time of the world to consider your options during that period (e.g. switching to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa).

Better not to take any action yet as things might evolve in course of coming months.

Just enter Thailand as you intended and enjoy the almost 2 years your pre Oct31 issued OA Visa provides you, without any health-insurance worries.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Peter Denis

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

this is a very right wing nationalist country and they are NEVER going to ask their own citizens to subsidize 'rich' foreigners whatever the rest of the world aspires too

I never suggested Thailand or Thai citizens subsidize foreigners Health care but apparently you seem happy with subsidizing  Thai insurance companies that provide little coverage and  high premiums. You apparently are one of the rich foreigners who sees no problem with what is proposed. If that is the case- go right ahead and purchase the insurance. No one objects to it.

 

However.The plan I proposed  puts the monthly cost  for a foreigner to have Thai Government insurance at 4500 Baht per month. That is the same cost of a US citizen getting coverage under the US Medicare program.   If the Us medical system can do it- which is the costliest system in the World- I have to believe the Thai system cannot only do it but make a profit.

 

Every foreign National Health system allows foreigners residing long term in their country to buy into their  countries system.  Most Governments all ow equal access but charge the foreigners a surcharge above what their own citizens pay.

 

The reason Thailand won't do it is because they have come up with a plan to force everyuone to buy costly local policies which provide little coverage. An obvious boon to the insurance industry and theeir Boards of Directors.  If you have your own non Thai insurance- you can't use it to meet the requirement. If you are over 75 none of the companies will sell you medical insurance.

 

We can argue all day long about differnt plans that would help both Thailand and expats but at the end of the day- unless they grandfather all none prior O-A holders-  the only way forward for these people is to purchase the worthless insurance; leave and get a non O; get married to a Thai and get a non O orvfind an agent or leave.

[moontang]

35 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

I believe that is wishful thinking.  As soon as someone uses the word "socialism" far too many people will think it will lead to communism.  Those who have employer paid insurance, in many cases, they are happy with what they have and they are afraid of change.  Throw in the zillions of dollars the insurance companies and big Pharma spend on propaganda, it becomes very difficult for change to happen.  Couple all that with the common American belief that the US has the best healthcare in the world, despite the evidence to the contrary, make things even worse.

I hope I am wrong but I doubt it.

Prescription drugs only account for 11% of the national health expenditure in the US.  Strange, how the Left always goes on the attack against them, and always refuses to go after their ambulance chasing friends from law school.  

[Thaidream]

42 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

believe that is wishful thinking.  As soon as someone uses the word "socialism" far too many people will think it will lead to communism.  Those who have employer paid insurance, in many cases, they are happy with what they have and they are afraid of change.  Throw in the zillions of dollars the insurance companies and big Pharma spend on propaganda, it becomes very difficult for change to happen.  Couple all that with the common American belief that the US has the best healthcare in the world, despite the evidence to the contrary, make things even worse.

I hope I am wrong but I doubt it.

Your point is well made- however- as long as neither Bernie or Elizabeth Warren win- what will happen initially is a Medicare option will be listed as part of Obama care and the cost of this option will be much less than what other insurance plans provide. The Medicare option may also include Dental and Vision which the other for profit companies will not provide.

 

Medicare actually is one of the US Government programs that works well.  As the US population starts to realize how much money they will save and get quality care- more individualss and companies will opt for the Medicare plan.

 

Insurance companies within 30 years will either cease to exist or match Medicare prices.  Big Pharma will also feel the pinch as part of Medicare will allow foreign sourced drugs that are much cheaper and also allow foreign options for treatment.

 

It's coming but it will take a few decades  before the full impact takes affect.

 

Americans are fed up with greedy insurance companies and parmaceutical companies that  put outraegous prices on medicines and insurance companies pay it and simply pass the costs onto the consumer.