Getting Rejected

[alex8912]

41 minutes ago, donnacha said:

That is absolutely wrong.

If you are rejected, they will almost certainly make you buy a ticket back to your last destination. If that was Frankfurt, you're going back to Frankfurt. Qatar, Qatar. You can sometimes, if they are even willing to listen to you, persuade them to let you buy a ticket to some equivalent airport. For instance, you could ask for Berlin instead of Frankfurt, possibly even Dubai instead of Qatar, but there is not a lot of flexibility. The safe play for them is to stick to your last port of call because of the International convention that only that or your home country has to accept you back from Thailand.

The one bit of flexibility seems to be that, if coming from a country in the region such as Malaysia, they seem reasonably relaxed to let you bounce to SG or HK instead of KL, but don't make the mistake of thinking you will have that option if you've just arrived from Europe or the States, or even that you will automatically have it is arriving from a hub in the region.

I do not mean to criticize you glegolo but your advice is dangerous because, if people believe what you said, they will not bother doing the ONE thing you actually can do to minimize the disruption that a rejection will cause:

If you believe that your history of visiting Thailand or your personal appearance puts you at risk of a refusal, and you are traveling from far away (Europe, the Americas, etc), fly into a hub in the region but outside Thailand, such as KL, HK, SG. Then get a cheap direct flight on a budget airline to your destination within Thailand, avoiding both Bangkok airports if at all possible. If Bangkok is your final destination, it may even be worth your while to fly into Chiang Mai or Udon and then get a domestic flight down to Bangkok.

Rejection is only a danger for people with a certain pattern of visiting Thailand, certain demographics, or certain races. Even in those cases, only a minority are rejected, most people are fine. All the same, the cost, disruption and emotional distress of rejection is sufficiently bad to make it worth taking the precautions I suggest above if you are in the high-risk categories.

 

The consequences are serious and no one such be giving advice about it unless they are sure they know what they are talking about.

 

 

Even though your advise seems good I think you are forgetting that most people traveling here from far away places are coming here with at least two 23 kg bags!  The suggestion of buying another round trip ticket from Singapore to Bkk back to Singapore with two 23 kg bags on Air Asia for example ( or another discount airline as you mention ) is quite expensive! I mean VERY VERY expensive. Oh God as I just read your post again you are suggesting for example fights from Singapore to Chiangmai Mai then Chiang  Mai to BKK!!! Really now I wish I could edit this whole post because that advise is borderline insane! Especially the 2 Nd bag costs a lot more. The better advise is something I’ve mentioned before is buying a multi city ticket and staying in another city even one night or even a few hours. From Europe the choices are almost unlimited and from the States depending on where you live there are still many choices: For example Cathay Boston to Hong Kong to BKK then return BKK to Boston ( not really having to leave transit in this direction). Or New York , Singapore , BKK THEN BKK to Singapore.  You can also fly to Taipei , Tokyo , Seoul or even Dubai. All less than 6 hour flight from BKK. The cost of even staying one night in these places is not expensive if you shop around and you can even get a nice rest in another country for a day. You can stay just a few hours , leave transit and come back for  a flight then you still have your port of Embark much much closer to BKK and you have your same baggage allowance covered. A multi city ticket can sometimes cost LESS than a round trip! Or sometimes just $25-50 more.  
As a side note the hype in this forum on this topic is too much. Many posters are THINKING their time spent in Thailand is too much when it actually is not. These people are being hurt by this hype and making stupid travel changes that are both expensive and not necessary. READER BEWARE of the hype!! Please. 

Edited November 9, 2019 by alex8912

[NanLaew]

45 minutes ago, donnacha said:

If Bangkok is your final destination, it may even be worth your while to fly into Chiang Mai or Udon and then get a domestic flight down to Bangkok.

At the moment, there are no international passenger flights in/out of Udon Thani. However, one can fly internationally into Vientiane (Laos) and enter Thailand via the Friendship Bridge at Nong Khai which is still one of the easy-going Thai entry (and exit/re-entry) points.

 

I used Vientiane-Hanoi to get back to work way back when the protests closed both Bangkok's airports. I think both Lao Airlines and Vietnam Airlines currently service that route.

Edited November 9, 2019 by NanLaew

[donnacha]

34 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

I think you are forgetting that most people traveling here from far away places are coming here with at least two 23 kg bags

At least two 23 KG bags?!!

Surely that can't possibly be true. If you think about the people you see collecting their bags from airport carousels, most seem to have just one suitcase, and generally not particularly big ones. Even one 23 KG bag would be quite a lot to bring. Except for Americans, obviously, to enjoy their vacation they need to bring more possessions with them.
 

 

34 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

The suggestion of buying another round trip ticket from Singapore to Bkk back to Singapore with two 23 kg bags on Air Asia for example ( or another discount airline as you mention ) is quite expensive!

I didn't suggestion a round trip ticket for the budget airline hop. The advantage of those airlines is that there is no cost advantage to buying a roundtrip, so, you have the convenience of booking the return leg later.

Air Asia currently charge $19 for a 25 KG bag from SG to Bangkok. I feel that $40 for two 23 KG bags would not be excessive. Perhaps I am getting this wrong but presumably someone traveling around with such a massive amount of possessions, they had to have money to buy all that stuff, right? Surely $40 each way is peanuts compared to having to buy an emergency ticket back to Europe or Europe.

Just to be clear, I know nothing of this bizarre activity of shuffling around the world with heavy bags. It strikes me as a terrible way to start your vacation. A few clothes, perhaps some gym gear, some shower gel, your laptop, maybe a kindle. Even including presents, why would anyone ever need more than one 20 KG bag? The fact that the international carrier give you the allowance doesn't mean you are obliged to weigh yourself down with all that stuff.

 

 

34 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

the better advise is something I’ve mentioned before is buying a multi city ticket and staying in another city even one night or even a few hours.

Honestly, as someone who flies quite a bit, I cannot image any situation in which a multi-city ticket on an International carrier such as Cathay is going to work out less expensive than what I've suggest.

Is it possible that you might just not like the idea of using budget airlines?

I can sympathize, but if we are talking about a relatively cheap way to deal with a relatively low risk problem, budget airlines are the quick, cheap, flexible way to do it.
 

 

34 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

As a side note the hype in this forum on this topic is too much. Many posters are THINKING their time spent in Thailand is too much when it actually is not. These people are being hurt by this hype and making stupid travel changes that are both expensive and not necessary. READER BEWARE of the hype!! Please.

Wait, who is this READER guy? And has he been watching us this whole time!

No rational visitor to this forum is going to come away with any unwarranted fears. The threads are fairly balanced. There is a risk for certain categories of people and it is better that those people know, rather than not know, that it is currently a good idea to avoid entering Thailand via the Bangkok airport.

It is good to know what the precautions are. I speak as someone who has lived pretty much full-time in Thailand on back-to-back tourists visas even after things got tougher. That has involved taking exactly the sort of precautions that you dismiss as being "both expensive and not necessary". What I can tell you is that it was less expensive than buying an Elite visa, less stressful than getting rejected on arrival, and less catastrophic to my finances and mental well-being than getting married. My sincere thanks to all of those who shared their experiences, their knowledge, and their "hype" about how the system actually works.


 

Edited November 9, 2019 by donnacha

[Old Croc]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

The best reasonably readable source on this is https://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/2014-FAL-SEM/3.5 1100-1200 IATA InadmissiblePersons.pdf. I can recommend reading the whole thing. As far as your embarkation point is concerned, GUIDELINES FOR THE REMOVAL OF INADMISSIBLE PERSONS Section 5 (ASSISTANCE AND COOPERATION IN THE REMOVAL PROCESS) is most relevant. A key point is:

Note that readmission to the country is not required. The State is only required to examine the passenger as it would any other individual (not a person inadmissible elsewhere).

Firstly, well done finding relevant information and reading it. A good clear document setting out procedures for inadmissible persons.

You, however, seem to be suggesting the country receiving back an inadmissible person from another country, can shunt them back again or onwards. Not so.  Among other matters, these rules were written to stop possible situations of passengers flying backwards and forwards forever without being landed anywhere.

 

They almost certainly will now also be inadmissible to the country that initially allowed their entry, and subsequent departure, but the person still is their problem. Because they were initially admitted to that country, airlines are no longer liable. Deportation would likely be the next process.

[steve187]

11 hours ago, farangbuffalo said:

Thanks for the input everyone. Will be coming from the UK so it seems like it's probably best to fly with Cathay so if I get rejected and they won't let me pick where I go, I'll only get sent back to HKG. 

 

Don't really fancy flying all the way back to the middle east with Emirates/Etihad after a 16 hour journey!

cathay are good but expensive, have a look at Malaysia, good prices and again only a short hop away, also once back in kl if refused entry at bkk, you can try a land border crossing

 

[pantsonfire]

3 minutes ago, steve187 said:

cathay are good but expensive, have a look at Malaysia, good prices and again only a short hop away, also once back in kl if refused entry at bkk, you can try a land border crossing

 

KL to VTE seem to only have one flight unless iam searching wrong?

[SteveK]

17 minutes ago, steve187 said:

cathay are good but expensive, have a look at Malaysia, good prices and again only a short hop away, also once back in kl if refused entry at bkk, you can try a land border crossing

 

Plus you won't have any issues getting into Malaysia however many times you have to go.

[BritTim]

57 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Among other matters, these rules were written to stop possible situations of passengers flying backwards and forwards forever without being landed anywhere.

That is addressed under 5.3:

Quote

States should not return such a person to the country where he was earlier found inadmissible.

It is why, after a failure to return someone to the original embarkation point, the usual default solution is a return to home country, often requiring the responsible airline to negotiate with the national airline of the INAD's passport country).

[ananda23]

7 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

Honestly after first rejection I would not bother trying to come back again.

In all fairness to Thai immigration I did stay quite a long time in Thailand on tourist visas. I understand and respect the fact that tourist visas aren´t meant to be used to stay long term. The reason I can´t just turn my back to Thailand even if I wanted to (which I don´t) is that I´m in the process of setting up a business there that I have invested millions of Baht in. There´s no turning back. I have sorted out my visa situation now and got a non-immigrant b so all is good.

[ananda23]

5 hours ago, bbi1 said:

What visa were you on when you were rejected in Chiang Mai? This is the 1st report we've seen of someone being rejected there. Also what's your visa history like?  What passport do you hold & were are you white, black, arab or asian?

I had spent almost 8 months in Thailand on SETVs and visa exemption stamps at the time they rejected me. I flew in from Hong Kong hoping to get another 30 day stamp. I hold a German passport, am white and was dressed well. Immigration in Chiang Mai was quite friendly, the head guy told me to get a SETV in KL and come back. My mistake was to fly to Bkk and not to CM apparently, hence the second rejection.

[randymarsh]

The amount of threads on here about rejections, it makes me wonder why people bother flying at all as no one gets in.  I've just got a new SETV from London and I haven't been in Thailand since almost a year ago today.  But I have been in Thailand quite a bit since 2015, on a combination of visa exempt + extensions, UK applied tourist visas, Nong Khai / Laos crossings, and Vietnam applied tourist visas.  

 

Here's my rough time in Thailand history

 

September 2015 for 6 months (entered on exempt and got a Double Entry visa in Laos - who remembers those bad boys?  Simpler times)

September 2016 for 3 weeks (visa exempt)

December 2016 for 2 months  (visa exempt)

May 2017 for 7 months (tourist visas)

NEW PASSPORT from here onwards:

March 2018 for 2 months (visa exempt)

September 2018 for 2 months (tourist visa)

 

What are my chances of getting in considering I've never been rejected before, have never overstayed, and haven't been in Thailand for 12 months?  I usually fly with Finnair because the A350 is so good, but I don't want to be rejected back to Helsinki.  OMG THIS IS SO RIDICULOUS.

Edited November 9, 2019 by randymarsh

[ananda23]

59 minutes ago, randymarsh said:

What are my chances of getting in considering I've never been rejected before, have never overstayed, and haven't been in Thailand for 12 months?  I usually fly with Finnair because the A350 is so good, but I don't want to be rejected back to Helsinki.  OMG THIS IS SO RIDICULOUS.

I don´t think you need to worry. It seems to me that they only reject people who stay a long time on tourist visas without any breaks in between. It looks like they reject people they suspect work illegally in Thailand. Since you haven´t been to Thailand for some time there is no reason for immigration to suspect you are working there. 

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, randymarsh said:

The amount of threads on here about rejections, it makes me wonder why people bother flying at all as no one gets in.  I've just got a new SETV from London and I haven't been in Thailand since almost a year ago today.  But I have been in Thailand quite a bit since 2015, on a combination of visa exempt + extensions, UK applied tourist visas, Nong Khai / Laos crossings, and Vietnam applied tourist visas.  

 

Here's my rough time in Thailand history

 

September 2015 for 6 months (entered on exempt and got a Double Entry visa in Laos - who remembers those bad boys?  Simpler times)

September 2016 for 3 weeks (visa exempt)

December 2016 for 2 months  (visa exempt)

May 2017 for 7 months (tourist visas)

NEW PASSPORT from here onwards:

March 2018 for 2 months (visa exempt)

September 2018 for 2 months (tourist visa)

 

What are my chances of getting in considering I've never been rejected before, have never overstayed, and haven't been in Thailand for 12 months?  I usually fly with Finnair because the A350 is so good, but I don't want to be rejected back to Helsinki.  OMG THIS IS SO RIDICULOUS.

You will be fine, especially if you enter with a tourist visa. However, if planning another long stay, be careful with the later visa and border runs.

[SteveK]

1 minute ago, BritTim said:

You will be fine, especially if you enter with a tourist visa. However, if planning another long stay, be careful with the later visa and border runs.

He's right though, it is ridiculous.

[Salerno]

8 hours ago, alex8912 said:

most people traveling here from far away places are coming here with at least two 23 kg bags!

What utter and complete <deleted>.

[alex8912]

20 minutes ago, Salerno said:

What utter and complete <deleted>.

Of course you left out the part about coming here for a few months because you know your are 100% wrong. Want to take a poll on this? People who come to Thailand for a few months from Europe or North America usually bring two checked bags with them. Period 

[Salerno]

13 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Of course you left out the part about coming here for a few months because you know your are 100% wrong.

No, I don't think so, I think I'm pretty accurate in my assessment of your statement.

 

1 minute ago, BritTim said:

I think it is impossible to generalise.

Thing is he's not generalising, he's stating it as a fact.

 

14 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Period 

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Salerno

[BritTim]

16 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Of course you left out the part about coming here for a few months because you know your are 100% wrong. Want to take a poll on this? People who come to Thailand for a few months from Europe or North America usually bring two checked bags with them. Period 

I think it is impossible to generalise. On a couple of occasions, I started a long trip with only one bag, intending to buy extra clothing during my trip. Before returning to home country, I had bought a second bag and did return with two bags. When going to the tropics for a couple of months, if planning to do a lot of overland travel, I can usually travel very light, not even investing in a large backpack. It is harder if going somewhere that may be cold, or if attending events where a jacket and tie is expected.

EDIT: (Sorry if some find this sexist) I think it is easier for a guy to travel light than a woman.

Edited November 9, 2019 by BritTim

[DrJack54]

21 hours ago, BritTim said:

Some relevant facts:

1. If you are denied entry, the airline that flew you to Thailand is responsible for your removal.
2. The airline is obliged to remove you whether or not you can (or are willing) to pay for the flight. However, the airline will try to get reimbursement for the flight. If you have flight bookings out of Thailand, the airline will try (usually successfully) to grab those, and, legal or not, there is little you can do about it. Leaving aside unused flight bookings, the airline have ways of putting pressure on you to pay up. It is difficult to know which threats they make against you are genuine, and which are just an attempt to frighten you.
3. Under most circumstances, there is no way you can fly to a destination the airline does not serve out of Thailand. There is a strong tendency to return you to your last point of embarkation, but another destination will be necessary if you do not have a visa (or right to visa exempt entry) at that location. If all else fails, arrangements will be made to return you to home country (with your airline negotiating with national carriers if they do not fly to your country themselves).
4. [My own belief] Immigration really does not care where you go as long as it is out of Thailand on the original airline. The airline does not really care where you go as long as they get paid and have no further exposure for costs arising from your denied entry. I believe you should tell the airline
   • where you want to go that the airline flies to from Bangkok, and where you are entitled to enter (e.g.often  Laos or Malaysia);
   • that you will pay immediately and without complaint to be flown to the destination of your choice;
   • that you will sign an indemnity form promising to defray any further costs the airline may incur in discharging their responsibilities; and
   • you will resist payment for flights to destinations where you are unwilling to go, and consider legal action against the airline in your home country if improperly pressed for payment.

I do not guarantee my approach will work, but it is what I would do myself. Do not sign anything Immigration asks you to.

Can you post the links to where airline paid for your flight to point of embarkment. Also link to given an alternative such as flying in from Saigon and allowed flight to Vientiane (AirAsia eg service both).

Pervious post here from someone denied entry flying in from HK and allowed to fly to KL after being denied entry. RARE to say the least, if true. 

[farangbuffalo]

21 hours ago, alex8912 said:

OP I think you are not a candidate for being sent back. The hyoe on here is just OTT. I

Its your 4 th METV in 2 years and you’ve been home for 5 months. I’m not sure how long you spent here on them ( which should have been included in your post) also the time BETWEEN them. But really under the worse case is a 6 hour flight to Dubai really so much worse than a 3 hour flight to  Hong Kong or 5 1/2 to Seoul or 6 to Tokyo or 3 1/2 to Taipei?  

I've had 4 Visas in the last 4 years (not 2 years) and stayed roughly 6 months each trip. So around 2 years in total out of the past 4 years.

 

I did make an error in the OP though...I've only had 3 METV's as the first time I got a double entry, just before they stopped doing them and switched to the new multi entries. Don't think this really matters much tho

[Alex2554]

FYI

Immigration Act B.E.2522

Section 22

In a case where the competent official discovers that an alien who has entered the Kingdom is prohibited from entering the Kingdom under the provisions of Section 12, the competent official shall have power to order said alien by written notification to leave the Kingdom. If the said alien is not satisfied with such an order, the alien may appeal to the Minister except for cases under Section 12 (1) or (10). The order of the Minister shall be final. If the Minister does not issue an order within seven days as from the date of submitting the appeal, it shall be deemed that the Minister has ordered that the said alien is not a prohibited person not permitted to enter the Kingdom under Section 12.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Alex2554 said:

FYI

Immigration Act B.E.2522

Section 22

In a case where the competent official discovers that an alien who has entered the Kingdom is prohibited from entering the Kingdom under the provisions of Section 12, the competent official shall have power to order said alien by written notification to leave the Kingdom. If the said alien is not satisfied with such an order, the alien may appeal to the Minister except for cases under Section 12 (1) or (10). The order of the Minister shall be final. If the Minister does not issue an order within seven days as from the date of submitting the appeal, it shall be deemed that the Minister has ordered that the said alien is not a prohibited person not permitted to enter the Kingdom under Section 12.

Sadly, at the entry points where they are bending Section 12 (2) to have a meaning that was never intended, they also try very hard (and usually successfully) to block the right of appeal.

[acenase]

Immigration don't care where you go after they deny your entry ????

 

The responsibility is on the AIRLINE that FLEW YOU IN.

 

So if you flew on an Airline that only has flights going in and out of BKK, then you are stuck going to where you came back from.

 

Luckily for me when I got denied entry, I flew from Bali - BKK on Thai Airlines when I was denied entry. So Thai Airlines flies to MANY different destinations so I was able to use Thai Airlines to go from BKK - VTE (Vientiane) and enter through Thailand via Land Border.

 

The problem is most people will not be using an airlines that flies from BKK-VTE (or neighboring country) so you are STUCK going back to where you flew in from. For example if you flew to BKK on Japan Airlines... There is no flights on Japan Airlines that go from BKK to another country, except only Japan. So you are stuck going back to Japan.

Edited November 11, 2019 by acenase