Turkey should scrap Russian missile system or face U.S. sanctions - White House official

[webfact]

Turkey should scrap Russian missile system or face U.S. sanctions - White House official

By Humeyra Pamuk

 

FILE PHOTO: A Russian serviceman walks past S-400 missile air defence systems in Tverskaya Street before a rehearsal for the Victory Day parade, which marks the anniversary of the victory over Nazi Germany in World War Two, in central Moscow, Russia April 29, 2019. REUTERS/Tatyana Makeyeva

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States is very upset about Turkey's purchase of Russian missile defence systems and could impose sanctions on Ankara if it does not "get rid" of them, White House National Security Adviser Robert O'Brien said on Sunday.

 

"Turkey will feel the impact of those sanctions," O'Brien told CBS's "Face the Nation" in an interview, referring to penalties under the U.S. law known as the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, which he said would pass Congress with "overwhelming" bipartisan support.

 

His comments came ahead of a visit by Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan to Washington on Nov. 13 to meet U.S. President Donald Trump for likely crucial talks as the two NATO allies have been at loggerheads over a range of issues.

 

One key disagreement is Ankara's purchase of the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, which Washington says is incompatible with NATO defences and threatens its Lockheed Martin <LMT.N> F-35 fighter jets.

 

Despite threats of U.S. sanctions, Turkey started receiving its first S-400 deliveries in July.

 

In response, Washington removed Turkey from the F-35 programme, in which Ankara was a manufacturer and buyer. But so far, it has not slapped any sanctions on Ankara.

 

Turkey has not yet activated the S-400 batteries it received, and Washington still hopes to persuade its ally to "walk away" from the Russian systems.

 

"There's no place in NATO for the S-400. There's no place in NATO for significant Russian military purchases. That's a message that the president will deliver to him (Erdogan) very clearly when he's here," O'Brien said.

 

Earlier this month, the head of Turkey's Defence Industry Directorate said a second S-400 delivery to Turkey may be delayed beyond a planned 2020 timeline by talks on technology sharing and joint production.

 

The S-400 issue is part of a wider range of disagreements between Turkey and the United States.

 

Washington was incensed by Turkey's offensive into northern Syria against U.S.-allied Kurdish YPG fighters last month. Turkey halted the incursion after the Kurds withdrew from a border region under a U.S.- brokered truce.

 

(Reporting by Humeyra Pamuk; Editing by Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-11-11

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[Puchaiyank]

Ain't going to happen...just as the Chinese are expanding their influence in SE Asia, the Russians have taken advantage of percieved US weakness brought on by idle threats with no action in the Middle East...to expand Russian influence in the Middle Eastern countries.

 

US has to rethink and readjust it's foreign policies to position itself to be a factor in an ever changing world landscape...

 

More idle threats and sanctions is just going to put the US at odds with developing nations...

[Bluespunk]

Deary, deary, deary me.

You stab your Kurd allies in the back to please the Turkish government, clearing the way for their invasion of Syria and they still don’t buy your weapons. 
 

Some countries just can’t be trusted...

[mikebike]

Does the left hand know what the right is doing in this admin? If you really wanted this... and were gonna abandon the Kurds anyway, why not get something for pulling back?

[zydeco]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

His comments came ahead of a visit by Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan to Washington on Nov. 13 to meet U.S. President Donald Trump for likely crucial talks as the two NATO allies have been at loggerheads over a range of issues.

The last time the Turk sultan was in the US his bodyguards beat up protesters. This time, I hope the protesters come prepared to fight back. Can't seek justice, because the last time the Turks assaulted Americans expressing their first amendment rights, the Turks were identified and charged but the Trump administration had the charges dropped to please Erdogan. 

[legend49]

I cant believe the stupidity of the demand.

[zyphodb]

Ha, way to go America,

 so you want Turkey to scrap Russia's much cheaper air defence system and buy your much more expensive system that doesn't seem to work as well or you'll throw your toys out of the pram.

 Keep up the good work of making yourself the most hated country in the world with the possible exception of your bestest ally Isreal... 

[Paul Henry]

No problem Donald will sort it out when Erdogan visits he will offer a trade in deal on the Russia Missiles in exchange for Yank ones and then sell the trade ins back to his mate Putin for $1 each providing Vlad gives Donny a spotters  fee of $10 mio each. "THE ART OF THE DEAL"

[JulesMad]

The 'normal' usa behaviour these days... Do what we (I?) want or we (I) impose sanctions on you! Maybe the extra-ordinary ultra smart orange leader has something to do with it; he has very often these 'brilliant' ideas   Of course you have to buy your weapons only with us

One of his copy cats is ruling Turkey, and he doesn't like to be told what to do ???? So, interesting days are ahead....

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, zydeco said:

The last time the Turk sultan was in the US his bodyguards beat up protesters. This time, I hope the protesters come prepared to fight back. Can't seek justice, because the last time the Turks assaulted Americans expressing their first amendment rights, the Turks were identified and charged but the Trump administration had the charges dropped to please Erdogan. 

What Turkish sultan?

[IAMHERE]

Is America wanting the Russian S-400 out of Turkey because eventually they may be used to defend against American airplanes ?  

[off road pat]

1 hour ago, legend49 said:

I cant believe the stupidity of the demand.

Yep,..that's what they get by having a narrow minded president without the slightest idea and vision about foreign policy !

[Classic Ray]

Of historical interest is that at the time of the Cuban missile crisis (Russian missiles pointing at the US) the US had missiles in Turkey (pointing at Russia). It finished with withdrawal of both lots. 
 

Yesterday’s friends are today’s enemies.

[ThaiFelix]

The empire is beginning to crumble.  Donald is clutching at straws.

  "Things fall apart, the center cannot hold" (Yeats)

[bristolboy]

7 hours ago, zydeco said:

The last time the Turk sultan was in the US his bodyguards beat up protesters. This time, I hope the protesters come prepared to fight back. Can't seek justice, because the last time the Turks assaulted Americans expressing their first amendment rights, the Turks were identified and charged but the Trump administration had the charges dropped to please Erdogan. 

Not just protesters. They attacked Secret Service agents, too. But Trump bravely showed them that the US wouldn't accept attacks on its own government agents. Here's how the US government showed those Turkish security officials the penalties awaiting those who commit crimes in America

"The security officials left the country before they could be arrested. They were delivered to a waiting flight at Joint Base Andrews by State Department diplomatic security and Secret Service. One agent described it as the fastest “joint move and departure I’ve ever seen in my 16 years on the job,” according to a memo sent to the State Department the day after the clashes."

 

https://thehill.com/policy/international/469705-erdogan-visit-stirs-memories-of-violent-protests

 

[bristolboy]

Given how often Trump has reneged on his threats in the Middle East, I suspect the Turks aren't too concerned.

[observer90210]

If I was an american bureaucrat, I would worry more of the Chinese tsunami that will slowly and shortly hit and flood the global arms market with hi-tech weaponry...at bargain prices !!...AliExpress at it's best (or worst) ????

[marqus12]

1 hour ago, ThaiFelix said:

The empire is beginning to crumble.  Donald is clutching at straws.

  "Things fall apart, the center cannot hold" (Yeats)

The US controls 65% of the world's financial flows, even China and Russia

have a problems with money transfers between each other when wanting

to bypass US.

The trade war was to harm the US and they are growing, in the meantime,

in China, 30% of factories have stopped (apparently) .

 

Recently, rather it begins to look that rumors of the end of the US

may be premature.

[Nigel Garvie]

8 hours ago, marqus12 said:

The US controls 65% of the world's financial flows, even China and Russia

have a problems with money transfers between each other when wanting

to bypass US.

The trade war was to harm the US and they are growing, in the meantime,

in China, 30% of factories have stopped (apparently) .

 

Recently, rather it begins to look that rumors of the end of the US

may be premature.

Yes the dollar is the main trade currency, but there is plenty of talk of alternatives. China has big long term plans for the Yuan.

 

Some facts:-

China is now the worlds largest economy taking PPP into account (Puchasing parity I believe)

Chinas debt is around 5 trillion US debt is 22 trillion.

China and Japan hold over two trillion of US debt between them. 

 

American farmers (Who largely voted for Trump) are the hardest hit in this absurd trade war. 

 

If China and Japan sold their dollars it would crash the economy. They won't, it is not in their interest. I've not heard any rumors of the end of the US, they would be idiotic. 22 Trillion of debt is too much though, the US is living beyond its means. 

 

No wonder they want to sell arms to all and sundry, including Turkey, maybe if they stopped buying MAGA (Make America Grope Again) hats from China it would help!

 

Trump will be putty in Erdogan's hands just like he is in Putin's, Bankrupts with inflated egos are no match for dictators. 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Yes the dollar is the main trade currency, but there is plenty of talk of alternatives. China has big long term plans for the Yuan.

 

Some facts:-

China is now the worlds largest economy taking PPP into account (Puchasing parity I believe)

Chinas debt is around 5 trillion US debt is 22 trillion.

China and Japan hold over two trillion of US debt between them. 

 

American farmers (Who largely voted for Trump) are the hardest hit in this absurd trade war. 

 

If China and Japan sold their dollars it would crash the economy. They won't, it is not in their interest. I've not heard any rumors of the end of the US, they would be idiotic. 22 Trillion of debt is too much though, the US is living beyond its means. 

 

No wonder they want to sell arms to all and sundry, including Turkey, maybe if they stopped buying MAGA (Make America Grope Again) hats from China it would help!

 

Trump will be putty in Erdogan's hands just like he is in Putin's, Bankrupts with inflated egos are no match for dictators. 

Overall, Chinese total debt is about the same as the USA's as a percentage of GDP. And the overall quality of those loans is certainly lower, given that the Chinese criteria for lending to local governments and state owned enterprises is very lax.

China’s total debt rises to over 300 per cent of GDP as Beijing loosens borrowing curbs to boost growth

China's total debt burden rose strongly in the first quarter of 2019 as Beijing allowed more loans and local government bond issuance to help shore up the slowing economy, according to estimates by the Institute of International Finance.
The figure stood at nearly 304 per cent of its gross domestic product (GDP) in the first three months of the year, up from 297 per cent a year earlier, the US-based trade association said.

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3018991/chinas-total-debt-rises-over-300-cent-gdp-beijing-loosens

 

And China's efforts to make the Yuan a world currency have so far failed because few are going to trust in a currency that doesn't float freely.

 

And ya think if China and Japan were to lose their collective minds and sell their T-bills, they wouldn't be snapped up by other investors?

[Pedrogaz]

18 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

Of historical interest is that at the time of the Cuban missile crisis (Russian missiles pointing at the US) the US had missiles in Turkey (pointing at Russia). It finished with withdrawal of both lots. 
 

Yesterday’s friends are today’s enemies.

Turkey still hosts US nukes at Incirclik Base.

[nausea]

What happened to free trade - you buy from who you want, when you want, how you want; oh dear, it doesn't suit us, suddenly free trade goes out the window.

[jany123]

On 11/11/2019 at 10:34 PM, marqus12 said:

The US controls 65% of the world's financial flows, even China and Russia

have a problems with money transfers between each other when wanting

to bypass US.

The trade war was to harm the US and they are growing, in the meantime,

in China, 30% of factories have stopped (apparently) .

 

Recently, rather it begins to look that rumors of the end of the US

may be premature.

“The trade war was to harm the US...”

Oh really? The trump started the trade war to harm the US? Do tell.

 

“In China, 30% of factories have stopped (apparently)”

heres a link to your claim. Keep up the good work. MAGA, 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/10/24/china-shuts-down-tens-of-thousands-of-factories-in-widespread-pollution-crackdown/

[Nigel Garvie]

16 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Overall, Chinese total debt is about the same as the USA's as a percentage of GDP. And the overall quality of those loans is certainly lower, given that the Chinese criteria for lending to local governments and state owned enterprises is very lax.

China’s total debt rises to over 300 per cent of GDP as Beijing loosens borrowing curbs to boost growth

China's total debt burden rose strongly in the first quarter of 2019 as Beijing allowed more loans and local government bond issuance to help shore up the slowing economy, according to estimates by the Institute of International Finance.
The figure stood at nearly 304 per cent of its gross domestic product (GDP) in the first three months of the year, up from 297 per cent a year earlier, the US-based trade association said.

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3018991/chinas-total-debt-rises-over-300-cent-gdp-beijing-loosens

 

And China's efforts to make the Yuan a world currency have so far failed because few are going to trust in a currency that doesn't float freely.

 

And ya think if China and Japan were to lose their collective minds and sell their T-bills, they wouldn't be snapped up by other investors?

I should have quoted my source, which was I accept 2018. If I had time I would read up in more detail, a complicated topic which I may well have a partial view of. 

 

China's world currency is just a plan at this stage as I said.

As I read US has suffered significantly from this trade war, trade wars like cod wars, are generally thought to be a bad idea. 

 

[gk10002000]

I go back to my US Air Force days in the 80s and 90s.  The USA was going to base Ground Launch Cruise Missiles (GLCM) in Turkey or Poland as I recall.  Then somewhat more recently the USA was going to base Patriot or THAAD missile systems in Poland or Turkey.  The details escape me.   So what is really driving the USA desires?  True NATO air defense concerns?  Foreign Military Sales pressure from USA contractors and less than straight up Congressmen and Senators?

 

errata, I think the GLCMs were slated for and actually did make it into a few European countries, West Germany, the UK, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy but then the INF took it down.  One of my fellow service men volunteered to go work on the GLCM as it guaranteed he got out of the job he was in, and he would get his choice of follow on assignment.  Yeah well, didn't quite happen.  He ended up doing a stint in Tule Greenland with Space Command but he survived it.

[Nigel Garvie]

3 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I go back to my US Air Force days in the 80s and 90s.  The USA was going to base Ground Launch Cruise Missiles (GLCM) in Turkey or Poland as I recall.  Then somewhat more recently the USA was going to base Patriot or THAAD missile systems in Poland or Turkey.  The details escape me.   So what is really driving the USA desires?  True NATO air defense concerns?  Foreign Military Sales pressure from USA contractors and less than straight up Congressmen and Senators?

If you want the current cost for a Senator there are a few options. Ask the arms industry first, then the fossil fuel industry, AIPAC, and..............well hard to know where to stop really!

[Credo]

1 hour ago, jany123 said:

“The trade war was to harm the US...”

Oh really? The trump started the trade war to harm the US? Do tell.

 

“In China, 30% of factories have stopped (apparently)”

heres a link to your claim. Keep up the good work. MAGA, 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/10/24/china-shuts-down-tens-of-thousands-of-factories-in-widespread-pollution-crackdown/

Your link is 2 years old.   

[Scott]

I am not sure how China has crept into this thread, but it's off-topic.   Please stay on topic.   Further off-topic posts will be removed.  

 

[jany123]

12 hours ago, Credo said:

Your link is 2 years old.   

Indeed.... but it was the only content identified by the posters comment...... to wit... 30% shutdown.

 

it would be so helpful if in making claims, people would back them up with their own facts, rather than offhand statements written factually, to con the rest of the forum.

 

and... if the poster I was responding too, believes that he can post a newer and more relevant link, that one exists.... well... see he has not