On 11/16/2019 at 11:21 AM, UncleMhee said:

A whole lot of prefabricated pollywaffle; just as I'd also expect to hear from the Australian Embassy.

You would never get such a comprehensive explanation from the Australian Embassy.

 

What is the "polly waffle"? They can't give citizen's personal income details to 3rd parties (Thai government). That's out of the hands of the British Embassy. Their decision seems quite reasonable.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Can't bank the 800k? 

Don't want to for a variety of reasons.

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Actually the word used in the police order is to certify  incomewhich can be done by an applicant self certifying that the information they are attesting to is correct.  The other approximate 80 Embassies who provide letters normally view a few documents the applicant presents and has the applicant take an Oath that it is true under penalty of perjury.

No it doesn't; it states "evidence of". And there is no mention in the police order or being able to evidence the income via a letter from your embassy!

 

Someone walking into a US embassy and signing an affidavit claiming x income is not evidence.

 

The Oaths are meaningless. The embassy don't care whether you're lying to a foreign state and Thailand don't check with the source. And on the rare occasion that immigration do ask the applicant for back up proof the applicant can simply withdraw their application.

 

Immigration rules are that the applicant proves their income. The embassy therefore has a duty to get evidence of that income at the very least. And the only way you can truly verify an income is from its source.

Just now, DannyCarlton said:

Don't want to for a variety of reasons.

Then I guess you get to go home. But in the end the variety of reasons really boils down to one. I mean if you had a million pounds it wouldn't be an issue right.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Totally wrong.

My consulate always certifies my income with the following formula:

Upon his/her request, the above mentioned citizen has declared that his/her monthly revenue are: ................ thb

Imigration requires nothing more.

The excuse of impossible verification is therefore fallacious.

555. A self declaration is not evidence/proof/verification of anything.

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

Immigration rules are that the applicant proves their income. The embassy therefore has a duty to get evidence of that income at the very least. And the only way you can truly verify an income is from its source.

Which is what we did by sending official documentation to the British Embassy as proof of income. TI has never mentioned proof of income from source. Not required as the 80 embassies that still produce income letters can vereify.

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No it doesn't; it states "evidence of". And there is no mention in the police order or being able to evidence the income via a letter from your embassy!

 

Someone walking into a US embassy and signing an affidavit claiming x income is not evidence.

 

The Oaths are meaningless. The embassy don't care whether you're lying to a foreign state and Thailand don't check with the source. And on the rare occasion that immigration do ask the applicant for back up proof the applicant can simply withdraw their application.

 

Immigration rules are that the applicant proves their income. The embassy therefore has a duty to get evidence of that income at the very least. And the only way you can truly verify an income is from its source.

It was all cool until it wasn't.

 

I used to just think the whole letter thing was total whale poop. I absolutely knew and would have gambled that one day it would end because everyone knew it was such a joke.

 

That's another reason why I'm so surprised the whiners and complainers not letting this thing go.

 

And the request for other individuals pension information, best laff all day sure.

2 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Then I guess you get to go home. But in the end the variety of reasons really boils down to one. I mean if you had a million pounds it wouldn't be an issue right.

 

 

Yes it would. I use the 65k baht monthly deposits as proof of income, which is much more of an inconvenience than applying by post for an embassy letter once yearly.

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

555. A self declaration is not evidence/proof/verification of anything.

TI are happy with it.

5 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Yes it would. I use the 65k baht monthly deposits as proof of income, which is much more of an inconvenience than applying by post for an embassy letter once yearly.

A bird went in search of a cage - Kafka

 

Maybe while you're still here study a bit of Buddhism. Learn to simplify your life. The freedom it brings. You're your own little maelstrom. That line from the Joker making plans comes to mind. You're retired but with all this confusion and little planning. Must be tough to be you.

 

But honestly I just think you don't have the money.

11 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Totally wrong.

It was factually correct regardless.

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

TI are happy with it.

Indeed, we Belgians residing in Pattaya have the choice :

 

An Affidavit at the Belgian embassy Bangkok : no need to proof anything. 

One just declare his monthly income. 

 

A "Letter of Income" at the Austrian Consulate : copy or original official papers has to be presented. 

 

So far the Affidavit and L.o.I. has been accepted at Jomtien Immigration. 

 

An affidavit is a type of verified statement or showing, or in other words, it contains a verification, meaning it is under oath or penalty of perjury. 

In the UK a person convicted of perjury is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years, or to a fine, or to both. (The Perjury Act 1911, the Criminal Justice Act 1948)

 

11 minutes ago, elviajero said:

555. A self declaration is not evidence/proof/verification of anything.

Indeed, It doesn't even prove the person holding "passport no 123456 issued by IPS on (date)" isn't a fraudster with a cloned ID.

9 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Which is what we did by sending official documentation to the British Embassy as proof of income. TI has never mentioned proof of income from source. Not required as the 80 embassies that still produce income letters can vereify.

You're all caught up in tiny technicalities and nuances. They never said this, they didn't do that.

 

The income verification method was always dicey. The letter was carte blanche. The deposits were given cursory review. It's really not the fact that the letter is now gone but that the British embassy signed off on a the rubbish which the Thais rubber stamped. That's the real issue.

 

British expats even the ones supposedly with the money struggle to get payments in correctly and on time.

 

I'm not surprised. So really, why bother? It's DONE. A process in name only. You are almost guaranteed to be knocked back. Is this a smart method of applying for your annual permission to remain in Thailand?

 

NO

22 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Which is what we did by sending official documentation to the British Embassy as proof of income. TI has never mentioned proof of income from source. Not required as the 80 embassies that still produce income letters can vereify.

I haven't said immigration want proof from the source. But that is the only way to confirm what's claimed in the paperwork is true.

 

Immigration do not just accept bank statements. They also want confirmation from the bank that the account is receiving monthly transfers.

9 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

British expats even the ones supposedly with the money struggle to get payments in correctly and on time.

Most expats.

22 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

TI are happy with it.

And? That isn't the issue.

2 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I haven't said immigration want proof from the source. But that is the only way to confirm what's claimed in the paperwork is true.

 

Immigration do not just accept bank statements. They also want confirmation from the bank that the account is receiving monthly transfers.

Not if you're attatched to one of the 80 embassys that stiil produce the letters.

Just now, elviajero said:

And? That isn't the issue.

It's totally the isssue. There was never a requirement from TI for the British Embassy to change the way that they verify income, let alone cease the letters.

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

"Alright, then, can someone please name something that our embassies have done over the past five to ten years to make our lives easier..."

It is not the Embassy's, or the Government's job, to "make expats lives easier"!  Geez...

Some people, it appears, are just incoherent and just witless.  "The mission of the United States Embassy is to advance the interests of the United States, and to serve and protect U.S. citizens in Thailand."

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulate/bangkok/

9 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Not if you're attatched to one of the 80 embassys that stiil produce the letters.

Most of those embassies have a few expats and probably rarely have to produce such letters, or don't offer the facility.

11 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

It's totally the isssue. There was never a requirement from TI for the British Embassy to change the way that they verify income, let alone cease the letters.

In the opinion of the UK/US embassies there is. End of.

My two letters were both issued by the U.K. government ie state pension and Civil Service Pension.

not difficult for them to confirm for years 1-6 but year 7 too difficult!!!!!

2 hours ago, wgdanson said:

I thought they wanted 12.

The Embassy not Thai Immigration 

16 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

It's totally the isssue. There was never a requirement from TI for the British Embassy to change the way that they verify income, let alone cease the letters.

They got tired of lying. Is that not clear? It's totally clear to me.

 

The embassy needs to at least outwardly have some even a modicum of integrity.

 

Maybe all the loudmouths ruined it. Guffawing about scoring letters every year when it was all just a big rub and tug.

16 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Some people, it appears, are just incoherent and just witless.  "The mission of the United States Embassy is to advance the interests of the United States, and to serve and protect U.S. citizens in Thailand."

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulate/bangkok/

 

1 minute ago, Number 6 said:

They got tired of lying. Is that not clear? It's totally clear to me.

 

The embassy needs to at least outwardly have some even a modicum of dignity.

 

Maybe all the loudmouths ruined it. Guffawing about scoring letters every year when it was all just a big rub and tug.

Not clear at all to me.

 

"Maybe all the loudmouths ruined it. Guffawing about scoring letters every year when it was all just a big rub and tug." I never heard any of this, a figment of your imagination or do you have evidence of this?

 

As I've said a number of times, those wanting to game the system didn't forge a sheaf of documents, they just paid an agent. Easier and much safer.

11 minutes ago, elviajero said:

In the opinion of the UK/US embassies there is. End of.

I very much doubt that it's the opinion of the UK embassy. Just an exercise in downsizing. Not the opinion of the 80 other embassys that continue to produce the letters either.

Just now, DannyCarlton said:

As I've said a number of times, those wanting to game the system didn't forge a sheaf of documents, they just paid an agent. Easier and much safer.

Entirely disagree. Those skint guys can save 25k they will because they've obviously no money from get go.

 

I'm sure there are some* that actually do have an income stream but they constantly have problems getting the money here on time bc they don't have 65k income. Further it's not arriving exactly as they need it to in their own personal little self absorbed dream world.

 

Anyway it looks like you're all going home apparently because you cannot manage the technical aspects of the extension requirements. Namely getting your money into the bank on time.

 

The question is really moot is it not?

 

800k in the bank - welcome

 

Another whinging thread.