Johnson, Corbyn wage Brexit battle in final debate before UK election

[rooster59]

Johnson, Corbyn wage Brexit battle in final debate before UK election

By Elizabeth Piper and Kylie MacLellan

 

Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson and opposition Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn take part during a head-to-head debate on the BBC in London, Britain December 6, 2019. Jeff Overs/BBC/Handout via REUTERS

 

MAIDSTONE, England/LONDON (Reuters) - Prime Minister Boris Johnson and opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn clashed over Brexit on Friday in the last televised debate before next week's election that will determine the path for Britain's departure from the European Union.

 

Six days before Britain votes in its second national election in less than three years, the debate was seen as the last chance for Corbyn to squeeze Johnson's lead in the polls, which mostly point to victory for the prime minister.

 

A snap poll by YouGov found 52% of viewers thought Johnson had won the debate.

 

The two leaders set a combative tone over how to leave the EU and in their very different offers for domestic policy - "socialism carried out in a democratic way" from Corbyn, or "one-nation Conservatism" that will not "rack up debts" from Johnson.

 

More than three years after Britain voted to leave the EU, the Dec. 12 election will determine when, how and even whether Brexit happens.

 

Johnson ridiculed Corbyn's support for a new referendum in which Corbyn has said he would remain neutral, while the Labour leader said the prime minister's pledge to "get Brexit done" actually meant years of trade talks.

 

"We have ample time to get on and build a new free trade partnership, not just with the EU but with countries around the world," Johnson said in the BBC television debate.

 

But Corbyn countered that it would take the government seven years to negotiate a trade deal with the United States and said business could not live with the uncertainty that Britain might still leave the EU without a deal next year.

 

Polls show Johnson's governing party is well ahead of Labour. A Panelbase survey on Friday showed the Conservatives extending their lead slightly over the opposition party to nine points, up from eight a week ago.

 

Johnson, who renegotiated a new divorce deal with the EU in October, has promised to "get Brexit done", a slogan he has repeated constantly during campaigning to try to win over Labour supporters who backed leaving the bloc, and those who are simply fed up of the political haggling over the issue.

 

Britons voted by 52%-48% in 2016 for Brexit but parliament has been stuck in deadlock over the way forward. If Johnson wins the majority he says he needs, Britain will leave by Jan. 31 and then seek to secure a trade deal with the bloc by the end of 2020.

 

DAMAGING DOSSIER

 

Keen to land a blow, Corbyn doubled down on an earlier attack on Johnson, calling his Brexit promises a fraud and saying his deal would simply be the start of years of "painful negotiations and broken promises".

 

The Labour leader waved at him documents he had unveiled earlier in the day, which he said showed the divorce deal would lead to customs declarations and security checks between Britain and Northern Ireland, a direct contradiction of Johnson's statements that it would not create any barriers.

 

"How about the prime minister showing a degree of honesty about the arrangements he's actually made with Northern Ireland," Corbyn said. "It is a question of openness."

 

Johnson said the document was "complete nonsense" and his team said they believed he had weathered the attack successfully.

 

Both were taken to task over accusations of prejudice in their parties, and questioned over their approaches to Britain's much loved public health service and their stance on security, a week after another terror attack hit the capital.

 

But with less than a week until the election, it looks as though many people are still undecided and the Conservative lead, so far, intact.

 

Sterling this week hit a 2-1/2-year high versus the euro and a seven-month high against the dollar on expectations that the Conservatives will win the election.

 

"Given the Conservatives went into this debate in the lead, they will hope the lack of a knockout blow means they can maintain this until voting day," said Chris Curtis, YouGov's Political Research Manager.

 

(Additional reporting by Paul Sandle, William Schomberg and Andrew MacAskill; writing by Elizabeth Piper and Michael Holden; Editing by Giles Elgood and Rosalba O'Brien)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-12-07

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[sammieuk1]

A snap poll by YouGov found 52% of viewers thought Johnson had won the debate.

 

Here is that 52% again????

[steve187]

11 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

A snap poll by YouGov found 52% of viewers thought Johnson had won the debate.

 

Here is that 52% again????

what i can not figure out is only 2 people watched it

[wombat]

why wasn't the important  stuff talked about? 

[Emdog]

Saw report on Al Jazeera regarding Boris doing no campaigning or appearances for his seat. If I voted in that area, that would cheese me off and I'd be tempted to turf Boris out. Could he be PM if he loses local election?

[tebee]

11 minutes ago, wombat said:

why wasn't the important  stuff talked about? 

Because that's not now representative democracy works .

 

[blazes]

53 minutes ago, Emdog said:

Saw report on Al Jazeera regarding Boris doing no campaigning or appearances for his seat. If I voted in that area, that would cheese me off and I'd be tempted to turf Boris out. Could he be PM if he loses local election?

Yes, he could, but he would have to persuade, PDQ, some Tory who had just won a big majority in (say) Dorset to resign in favour of Bojo running in that constituency in a by-election.

[TopDeadSenter]

Well it seems the Labour elite know the way the cards will fall. Their hostile welcome wherever they went on the campaign trail will have been an eye opener. The below article reminds me a bit of the Titanic's band playing on as the ship slipped below the icy waters. But it being Labour the valiance is forced and fake rather than an impromptu display of braveness. Most of us with business interests in the UK will also be crying when Labour lose. Tears of joy that is.

 

Labour tells candidates not to cry in public if they lose next week

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1214169/General-election-2019-Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-Party-candidates-Boris-Johnson-Tory

[OneMoreFarang]

What's the point of these interviews?

What's the point of asking the candidates, which are both since years in politics, what they promise for the future?

 

I think interviewers should first concentrate of what the candidates promised in the past and what they have actually achieved in the past.

Did they deliver what they promised? Did they tell the truth?

 

At least one of those candidates is a serial liar who promises everybody what they want to hear. And if he talks with 3 different groups of people he promises them 3 different versions of his homemade truth. There is no point to ask someone like that about what he promises for the future. It's easy: He promises everything and then he "forgets" his promises or he blames other why things didn't happen.

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Well it seems the Labour elite know the way the cards will fall. Their hostile welcome wherever they went on the campaign trail will have been an eye opener. The below article reminds me a bit of the Titanic's band playing on as the ship slipped below the icy waters. But it being Labour the valiance is forced and fake rather than an impromptu display of braveness. Most of us with business interests in the UK will also be crying when Labour lose. Tears of joy that is.

 

Labour tells candidates not to cry in public if they lose next week

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1214169/General-election-2019-Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-Party-candidates-Boris-Johnson-Tory

And then there are the other views about what is happening:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/06/tories-johnson-scary-manifesto-scrutiny-safari-park

[OneMoreFarang]

 

[leeneeds]

Really spoilt for choice with English politicians 

takes years of dithering to make a decision, 

shall I go left 

shall I go right 

maybe straight ahead 

oh I don't know,

let's start at the beginning again.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, wombat said:

why wasn't the important  stuff talked about? 

 

And they are. They can be voted out at the next election or deselected by their constituency party, as some have, prior to the next election.

 

Look up the difference between representative member of parliament and delegate btw.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, leeneeds said:

Really spoilt for choice with English politicians 

takes years of dithering to make a decision, 

shall I go left 

shall I go right 

maybe straight ahead 

oh I don't know,

let's start at the beginning again.

 

They're British not English politicians.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And then there are the other views about what is happening:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/06/tories-johnson-scary-manifesto-scrutiny-safari-park

 

The Guardian - a left wing paper since it's inception. No bias there then ????

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What's the point of these interviews?

What's the point of asking the candidates, which are both since years in politics, what they promise for the future?

 

I think interviewers should first concentrate of what the candidates promised in the past and what they have actually achieved in the past.

Did they deliver what they promised? Did they tell the truth?

 

At least one of those candidates is a serial liar who promises everybody what they want to hear. And if he talks with 3 different groups of people he promises them 3 different versions of his homemade truth. There is no point to ask someone like that about what he promises for the future. It's easy: He promises everything and then he "forgets" his promises or he blames other why things didn't happen.

 

Mr. Corbyn and his PR Image Make-Over team have taken hypocrisy to new heights. He really is the one who says whatever he thinks anyone wants to hear on any subject to get votes.

 

He had a long long career as a back bench MP. Now virtually every issue he supported and fought for has been u-turned, hidden, presented as a misunderstanding and in many cases he's now saying the opposite.

 

A Stalinist who believes in state control, and has been anti NATO and anti EU nearly all his career. Wonder who the Russians are supporting?

[Loiner]

These TV debates are not debates at all. They're merely political pony and trap shows, not worth the air time they waste. See the biased Channel 4 statement with a block of ice, or the Andrew Neil empty chair. And we are supposed to believe anything that is said in these programmes? Why would anybody then believe what another poll says about a 'result' of the non-debates? Who believes anything that comes from the pollsters anyway - "These are our results, and if you don't like them we have others." 

 

Even the new celebrity interviewer/political commentator programmes are nonsense - questions (or disguised and biased statements) are not answered but sidestepped or simply ignored, while the interviewer continues haranguing and interviewee continues spouting. 

[OneMoreFarang]

51 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The Guardian - a left wing paper since it's inception. No bias there then ????

The good thing is it's possible to read many different "papers", even from different countries.

And with all that information it is a lot easier to see the truth compared to just one source.

 

The Guardian has news articles and opinions articles, like many. In my experience they tell a lot of truth in the news articles.

Sometimes I agree with the opinions, and sometimes not. Because they are exactly that, opinions.

 

Boris is a serial liar, that is a fact. And any news source who pretends he is not a liar are lying. 

[OneMoreFarang]

51 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Mr. Corbyn and his PR Image Make-Over team have taken hypocrisy to new heights. He really is the one who says whatever he thinks anyone wants to hear on any subject to get votes.

 

He had a long long career as a back bench MP. Now virtually every issue he supported and fought for has been u-turned, hidden, presented as a misunderstanding and in many cases he's now saying the opposite.

 

A Stalinist who believes in state control, and has been anti NATO and anti EU nearly all his career. Wonder who the Russians are supporting?

Lets just pretend that is the truth. Is that a reason to vote for the serial liar Boris? Just looking at the last year and what Boris promised and delivered should be more than enough to see he is lying all the time.

The British people should demand someone who tells the truth even if they don't like it.

They had at least one decent candidate like that. And then they threw him out of the party...

[leeneeds]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

They're British not English politicians.

oh the borders, are no problem then if that statement were true.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What's the point of these interviews?

What's the point of asking the candidates, which are both since years in politics, what they promise for the future?

 

I think interviewers should first concentrate of what the candidates promised in the past and what they have actually achieved in the past.

Did they deliver what they promised? Did they tell the truth?

 

At least one of those candidates is a serial liar who promises everybody what they want to hear. And if he talks with 3 different groups of people he promises them 3 different versions of his homemade truth. There is no point to ask someone like that about what he promises for the future. It's easy: He promises everything and then he "forgets" his promises or he blames other why things didn't happen.

Yes, Corbyn is full of promises. 

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Mr. Corbyn and his PR Image Make-Over team have taken hypocrisy to new heights. He really is the one who says whatever he thinks anyone wants to hear on any subject to get votes.

 

He had a long long career as a back bench MP. Now virtually every issue he supported and fought for has been u-turned, hidden, presented as a misunderstanding and in many cases he's now saying the opposite.

 

A Stalinist who believes in state control, and has been anti NATO and anti EU nearly all his career. Wonder who the Russians are supporting?

QUOTE: A Stalinist?

 

Oh dear.

A Stalinist AND a trotskyist at the same time.

You're not very good at history, are you?

 

Unless of course these are your 2 favourite swearwords.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE: A Stalinist?

 

Oh dear.

A Stalinist AND a trotskyist at the same time.

You're not very good at history, are you?

 

Unless of course these are your 2 favourite swearwords.

Fair cop. Corbyn is a Marxist. 

[oldhippy]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Fair cop. Corbyn is a Marxist. 

If my English is correct, would it not be up to Bearboxer to say "fair cop" ?

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

<Snip>.  . Wonder who the Russians are supporting?

Heavens that should be blindingly obvious to everyone by now. The Russians have been doing everything they can to support Brexit, Boris is the perfect  man for them. Doubtless they are still doing everything they can to support him, no surprise that Boris is hiding the Russian Interference papers. Putin wants to weaken the EU............get it?

 

Putin is not a Socialist, he is a dictator, with an expansionist agenda, which has been furthered by his control of Trump.

He isn't interested in the welfare of his own people, why should he give tuppence monkey's about ours.  

[OneMoreFarang]

What I always find interesting in these threads is that it seems almost everybody is 100% pro one candidate and 100% against another.

How many here are willing to say something like: Guy A is good in this way but bad that way and with guy B its this and that?

 

I don't vote in the UK so I don't follow all the details. I don't see any good candidates. I see only very bad candidates and others who might be just about acceptable. 

And it seems most of the UK press are not willing to scrutinize all those impossible promises.

One way or another Brits will vote for Mission Impossible. And then sometime soon they will blame someone else or something else for the mess.

 

Good luck! You need it!

[oldhippy]

26 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Fair cop. Corbyn is a Marxist. 

QUOTE: Corbyn is a Marxist

 

Ah, now we are getting somewhere.

Marxism is a 19th century philosophy that tried to explain the evolution of capitalism.

Leninism, Trotskyism and Stalinism are early 20th century add ons, later followed by different add ons, such as Breznjev,

Dubchek, Gorbatjov.

There is no reason why a Marxist should be a Stalinist etc.

 

But of course, all these names can also be used as swearwords by "historically challenged" people.

 

 

 

[elliss]

7 hours ago, Emdog said:

Saw report on Al Jazeera regarding Boris doing no campaigning or appearances for his seat. If I voted in that area, that would cheese me off and I'd be tempted to turf Boris out. Could he be PM if he loses local election?

All part of the Russian plan .. 

              

 

[elliss]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

A Stalinist who believes in state control, and has been anti NATO and anti EU nearly all his career. Wonder who the Russians are supporting?

 

     Both sides. Win Win ..

 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

 

But of course, all these names can also be used as swearwords by "historically challenged" people.

 

Would a pedantic pinko be a Pedantist?

Looks like we even have to be oh so Communistically Correct in these matters too now.