Scotland must be given new independence vote - Sturgeon

[melvinmelvin]

41 minutes ago, transam said:

Eeeeeeeer, I thought Scots, who may live just across the border in England,  could not vote in the Independence thing, but short stay Africans could....

Could you clarify ...?

yes,

that was a rather clever trick by Salmond, but not clever enough - the vote still failed to meet Salmond's expectations

[RuamRudy]

22 minutes ago, transam said:

And there's me thinking Scotland had its own Parliament.....

Has it closed down, well I heard their control of education and other stuff was cr_p, and their cash figures are laughed at by the EU powers that be, so what happened to Sturgeon, not the same as Salmond, surely..????

Go on, tell us more about our education system and our `cash figures' that you have heard about. Oh, and do tell us about those Nazi parallels you mentioned earlier. I await with baited breath. 

[RuamRudy]

54 minutes ago, transam said:

Eeeeeeeer, I thought Scots, who may live just across the border in England,  could not vote in the Independence thing, but short stay Africans could....

Could you clarify ...?

If you are on the electoral roll in Scotland, you can vote. It's pretty straightforward. No need to bring low level racism into it. 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, Henryford said:

So you think there should be a referendum every 6 years until they get a Yes vote. After that of course the matter is settled for ever. Sounds like the EUSSR.

In the Belfast agreement 7 years was considered a reasonable interval, why should Scotland be any different. 

The "once in a generation" myth is nothing more than a deliberate misinterpretation by those against another vote.

Fact is circumstances have changed, end of story.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, transam said:

So you are crossing King James VI.....?

He was long gone when the Claim of Right passed into law in Scotland in 1689. You've got to move with the times...

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Eeeeeeeer, I thought Scots, who may live just across the border in England,  could not vote in the Independence thing, but short stay Africans could....

Could you clarify ...?

Again, it should be up to the Scots to decide whether they want an “Independence thing” and, if so, who should participate in it.

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[transam]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

If you are on the electoral roll in Scotland, you can vote. It's pretty straightforward. No need to bring low level racism into it. 

Racism, where was my racism, aaah, looking for something to twist, usual stuff...

 

I was replying to a bloke who said Scots should vote, but Scots could not vote if they were across the border, but Africans, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese etc, etc, could.....

 

I recall we had a member here, at the time of the Independence thing, going round Baptist Churches, with primarily coloured folk, giving speeches as to why they should vote Independence, at the time I thought that was below the belt, cancelling out born and bred Scots votes........ But, expected I suppose...????  

[vogie]

This is the Edinburgh Agreement signed by our PM at the time David Cameron, Scotlands FM Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, it was signed in 2012 by all concerned. The most relevant part of it is when it declares that: "deliver a fair test and decisive expression of the views of the people in Scotland and a result that everyone will respect.

Edited July 29, 2020 by vogie

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

This is the Edinburough Agreement signed by our PM at the time David Cameron, Scotlands FM Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, it was signed in 2012 by all concerned. The most relevant part of it is when it declares that: "deliver a fair test and decisive expression of the views of the people in Scotland and a result that everyone will respect.

I really don't understand this. What is wrong with letting Scotland leave if that is what they want?

[transam]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Go on, tell us more about our education system and our `cash figures' that you have heard about. Oh, and do tell us about those Nazi parallels you mentioned earlier. I await with baited breath. 

The Nazis started as a small party, look what happened in a very short period, visions of grandeur followed by its destruction......Oh, and....

 

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

I really don't understand this. What is wrong with letting Scotland leave if that is what they want?

They had their vote on it, to remain, now the SNP is spending all its time fluffing about with it instead of running the country.....

[Rookiescot]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

This is the Edinburgh Agreement signed by our PM at the time David Cameron, Scotlands FM Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, it was signed in 2012 by all concerned. The most relevant part of it is when it declares that: "deliver a fair test and decisive expression of the views of the people in Scotland and a result that everyone will respect.

In what way was it not respected?

Did Scotland just go ahead and leave anyway or something?

Go on vogie. Explain how the referendum has not been respected.

[stevenl]

30 minutes ago, transam said:

They had their vote on it, to remain, now the SNP is spending all its time fluffing about with it instead of running the country.....

So? Nothing to do with England. Again, what is the problem?

[welovesundaysatspace]

36 minutes ago, transam said:

They had their vote on it, to remain, now the SNP is spending all its time fluffing about with it instead of running the country.....

Whether they “had their vote on it” or want another one or not, and how they spend their time and are running their country, should be their business alone. 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Racism, where was my racism, aaah, looking for something to twist, usual stuff...

 

I was replying to a bloke who said Scots should vote, but Scots could not vote if they were across the border, but Africans, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese etc, etc, could.....

 

I recall we had a member here, at the time of the Independence thing, going round Baptist Churches, with primarily coloured folk, giving speeches as to why they should vote Independence, at the time I thought that was below the belt, cancelling out born and bred Scots votes........ But, expected I suppose...????  

As I said, if you are on the electoral roll, you get a vote irrespective of where you were born. Scotland has had a clear and obvious population problem for many years, so we are very happy for anyone to move there if they are willing to contribute to the betterment of the country. 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, transam said:

They had their vote on it, to remain, now the SNP is spending all its time fluffing about with it instead of running the country.....

The country is being run - and run well. Otherwise, how do you explain the popularity of the First Minister and of the party in general? 

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The country is being run - and run well. Otherwise, how do you explain the popularity of the First Minister and of the party in general? 

Many would disagree with you about the country being run well, but to explain the popularity of the SNP someone said and I wouldn't argue with them: 

The whole SNP movement is built on hate.

Get the Scottish to hate the English

Get the English to hate the Scottish.

And worst of get Scottish to hate other Scots who you politically disagree with. HTH

[7by7]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

<snip>

someone said

Who?

 

Do you have a source, or did you make it up?

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

I really don't understand this. What is wrong with letting Scotland leave if that is what they want?

 

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

So? Nothing to do with England. Again, what is the problem?

 

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Whether they “had their vote on it” or want another one or not, and how they spend their time and are running their country, should be their business alone. 

Not surprisingly no meaningful answer to these statements.

[vogie]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

So? Nothing to do with England. Again, what is the problem?

You don't think that the breakup of the UK is anything to do with England and the rest of the UK, are you serious?

[stevenl]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

You don't think that the breakup of the UK is anything to do with England and the rest of the UK, are you serious?

So England determines what happens to Scotland? You're being ridiculous.

 

So EU should determine the faith of UK leaving or not? You're being hypocritical.

 

Btw, the remark you're answering to was a reply to a post that mentioned Scottish internal affairs, so 'nothing to do with England'.

Edited July 29, 2020 by stevenl

[vogie]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

So England determines what happens to Scotland? You're being ridiculous.

 

So EU should determine the faith of UK leaving or not? You're being hypocritical.

Sorry I just can't compete with posters who don't think that breaking up the UK is nothing to do with the rest of the UK.

You have made a post that is senseless and you're calling me ridiculous. Goodbye!

[RuamRudy]

24 minutes ago, vogie said:

Many would disagree with you about the country being run well, but to explain the popularity of the SNP someone said and I wouldn't argue with them: 

The whole SNP movement is built on hate.

Get the Scottish to hate the English

Get the English to hate the Scottish.

And worst of get Scottish to hate other Scots who you politically disagree with. HTH

Vogie, are you spoiling for a fight here because you are not going to get one. But I will ask you this -do you honestly believe what you wrote to be true? If, hand on heart you do, then I have to ask if you actually know any Scottish person. When was the last time you were in Scotland? The picture you paint is so very far from reality that it would be comical if it was not so offensive.

 

Of course, if you get your news from the Express or the Mail, then I can understand. They both hate the notion of independence, in a large part down to their owners owning large chunks of Scottish real estate, but the fact is that everything you wrote is garbage of the highest level. Much like the majority of Brexiteers are not racists who hate all immigrants, the vast majority of Scots who support independence are nothing like your description. 

 

But you can deny it. You can say that more than half of Scots hate the English. It is very insulting but nothing I can do about that - you can lead a horse to water etc. 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Vogie, are you spoiling for a fight here because you are not going to get one. But I will ask you this -do you honestly believe what you wrote to be true? If, hand on heart you do, then I have to ask if you actually know any Scottish person. When was the last time you were in Scotland? The picture you paint is so very far from reality that it would be comical if it was not so offensive.

 

Of course, if you get your news from the Express or the Mail, then I can understand. They both hate the notion of independence, in a large part down to their owners owning large chunks of Scottish real estate, but the fact is that everything you wrote is garbage of the highest level. Much like the majority of Brexiteers are not racists who hate all immigrants, the vast majority of Scots who support independence are nothing like your description. 

 

But you can deny it. You can say that more than half of Scots hate the English. It is very insulting but nothing I can do about that - you can lead a horse to water etc. 

You don't have to look very far to see some of your own cohorts saying that if you are not a member of the SNP and you are a Unionist you are a "traitor' what message do you think that this sends out.

The thing I don't believe is that the English hates the Scots, I have no evidence of placards with 'Scots out of England' or the English burning your Saltire. There is something not nice happening at the moment in Scotland and its down to the SNP, they have split your country in half, are you happy with that, have you no thought for what the Unionists must be going through, are you even bothered.

I might even know Scotland better than you, all my holidays were either spent in the Highlands or the Lake District. I have walked and climbed too many Munroes and Corbetts, too many to remember, all my best mates in the army were Scots, so I do have a good reason to hope that our union remains intact and is not destroyed by the fiery Nationalists. It always amazes me when I talk to some Scots and many have never been further north than Glasgow or Edinburgh, they don't realise what an amazing country they have further north, but there again if you don't like mountain climbing or walking it may be not be the best place to go.

Hopefully Scotland will get rid of Mrs Sturgeon domination of the country, it is not healthy.

 

 

 

 

[2 is 1]

Hmm ... intresting topic! Im not say no or yes only few question if i understand right. Don't judge me only question.Land size Scotland is about 30% from UK. Almost all oil and gas what have find in North Sea belong to Scotland. Scotland don't have own army even service in wars. History tell many story what not go right whit Scottish and Brittish so there is long story about 2 "nation". 

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, 2 is 1 said:

Hmm ... intresting topic! Im not say no or yes only few question if i understand right. Don't judge me only question.Land size Scotland is about 30% from UK. Almost all oil and gas what have find in North Sea belong to Scotland. Scotland don't have own army even service in wars. History tell many story what not go right whit Scottish and Brittish so there is long story about 2 "nation". 

 

Scottish are British.

[2 is 1]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Scottish are British.

Yes i know they still are! Not so long time ago many other coundry was British also!

Edited July 29, 2020 by 2 is 1

[welovesundaysatspace]

53 minutes ago, vogie said:

You don't think that the breakup of the UK is anything to do with England and the rest of the UK, are you serious?

Well, at least you seem to admit now that the failing UKSSR can only be held together by keeping other countries as prisoners. (And maybe you understand now why the Scots would prefer the EU where they would be a sovereign state that is free to go whenever and however it likes.) 

[evadgib]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

You don't have to look very far to see some of your own cohorts saying that if you are not a member of the SNP and you are a Unionist you are a "traitor' what message do you think that this sends out.

The thing I don't believe is that the English hates the Scots, I have no evidence of placards with 'Scots out of England' or the English burning your Saltire. There is something not nice happening at the moment in Scotland and its down to the SNP, they have split your country in half, are you happy with that, have you no thought for what the Unionists must be going through, are you even bothered.

I might even know Scotland better than you, all my holidays were either spent in the Highlands or the Lake District. I have walked and climbed too many Munroes and Corbetts, too many to remember, all my best mates in the army were Scots, so I do have a good reason to hope that our union remains intact and is not destroyed by the fiery Nationalists. It always amazes me when I talk to some Scots and many have never been further north than Glasgow or Edinburgh, they don't realise what an amazing country they have further north, but there again if you don't like mountain climbing or walking it may be not be the best place to go.

Hopefully Scotland will get rid of Mrs Sturgeon domination of the country, it is not healthy.

Celts in all corners of the UK will round on the English far quicker than the other way around.

[2 is 1]

My personal opinion is even im not big fan about EU is that UK shoot whit big gun in own leg about Brexit! Only time will tell! New sht about give so much money to Italy and others to support bank's in France, Germany is BS! But need look forest not tree!