Non-OA retirement extension and insurance

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

What is her reason for not doing it?

Doing it has no repercussions for her. She can keep her maiden name if she wants to. No problem to buy land or houses.

 

I posted in a separate thread on this topic.  

 

She notes there are legal aspects in Thailand, where a spouse signature is required (such as going for a loan, complications for a Thai woman on Board of Directors of a Thai company (wrt needing husband's signature)).  Also this being Thailand, and her of course raised in Thailand and knowing how laws can change at times  (and be reverted), she does have a fear that things could revert to the past (~40 years back) when Thai woman could not own property if married to a foreigner.  I keep reminding her that is the past and not today, and she keeps reminding me that things do not always move progressively in this part of the world.  

 

To register our marriage (we were married 18-years ago in Canada) we need to:

   *  Go to Bangkok from Phuket and stay there in Bangkok for almost a week.

   *   Obtain an English declaration form with instructions available at the Canadian Embassy.

   *  Complete the English declaration form and submit the completed form to the Embassy with the fee for notary service (about 1200 baht)
   *  Have the completed and notarized English declaration translated into Thai by a certified translator in Bangkok. This could take1-2 days to complete.
   *   Take the documents to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs and have them certified there.

   *   Head back to Phuket

   *   In Phuket have the marriage registered at the appropriate Phuket district office

 

So there is an inconvenience factor.  Still I now have her considering this (with a possible trip to Bangkok in January-2020).

 

If it was not for this new Health Insurance requirement on the type-OA visa, she would not consider doing such, as there is no benefit for her having the marriage registered in Thailand.   wrt benefit for me, I am fortunate that having 400k or 800k baht in the bank is not an issue.  Rather for me, its my far superior Health Insurance not being accepted, that is the issue.

 

I could of course go for more Health Insurance (keeping my old and going for Thai approved insurance with massive deductions), but my experience in life, is once one starts paying 2x for something, then 3x is next, and 4x is next ... and one ends up in extortion.  So its best to avoid that path altogether.

 

 

 

 

[Wake Up]

3 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi, obviously option (c) is the preferred route to go for you.  Note: When you are using the 800K money in bank method to prove your financials when applying for an extension of stay, switching to reason of marriage when your extension is due, will have the advantage of halving that requirement, and freeing 400K THB.  Such a Bonus might convince your wife to register your marriage also in Thailand.

Option (b) is definitely out > it would be madness to dump your present generous health-insurance policy, for the expensive and basically worthless bogus thai-approved health-insurance scam.

When you consider option (a), just PM me and I will send you a comprehensive roadmap to embark on the surprisingly easy and not expensive OA > O transition.

Thanks for your posts. One question. When I end my O-A extension of stay and return to Thailand with 30 day USA visa exempt and then change at CW to Non-O visa extension of stay. —- can I use the 800 k I already have in my Bangkok Bank account for the Non O extension of stay? Or do I I have to transfer another 800 k to Bangkok Bank to show the funds came from abroad. My current 800 K was not from an overseas transfer but cash dollars brought to Thailand and converted to baht.  Thank you ???? 

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, Wake Up said:

Thanks for your posts. One question. When I end my O-A extension of stay and return to Thailand with 30 day USA visa exempt and then change at CW to Non-O visa extension of stay. —- can I use the 800 k I already have in my Bangkok Bank account for the Non O extension of stay? Or do I I have to transfer another 800 k to Bangkok Bank to show the funds came from abroad. My current 800 K was not from an overseas transfer but cash dollars brought to Thailand and converted to baht.  Thank you ???? 

Your 800K in your Bangkok Bank account will do and you will not have to prove its foreign origins again, as it has been 'seasoned' already when applying for and being granted your previous OA extension of stay.

[oldcpu]

5 hours ago, Momofarang said:

I don't blame immigration, it is the MoH who should provide, an "Insurance certification office". This could have been achieved easily. At Bumrungrad or Bangkok hospital they have easy access into my Insurance details and accept this as guarantee before admission. A similar setup could be used by MoH to issue certificates to be handed over to Immigration.

This has me thinking, that an approach that could be adopted by MoH would be to in essence 'contract out' certification of International Health Insurance to Thailand hospitals such as Bumrungrad, Bangkok Hospital, Vichaiyut Hospital, etc ... where a foreigner who has superior International Health Insurance goes to the hospital, and for a nominal fee of a few thousand baht (charged by the hospital) would have the hospital check the foreigner's insurance, have the hospital stamp/approve an official Thai document for the foreigner, and that would be accepted by Immigration as proof of health Insurance meeting/exceeding the Thai government health insurance requirement.  

 

Would that not be a win-win scenario? The hospital gets more money.  Thailand gets people with far superior insurance who will use their insurance supporting the Thai hospitals.  And the foreigner for a nominal fee (few thousand baht ? ) is not forced to dump their superior insurance for Thai specified insurance which is not as good.

 

Of course this is not true for everyone, but it would be good for those of us who already have excellent health and insurance for us and our families, and who were never a burdon on the Thai taxpayer.

 

I wonder if such an approach was ever considered?   One difficulty I see is International Health Insurance is not always structured in terms of in-patient/out-patient, so having a hospital such as Bumrungrad, Bangkok Hospital, Vichaiyut Hospital  confirm the Thai in-patient/out-patient requirement is met, may not be so easy (and hence not doable for a few thousand baht).

Edited December 24, 2019 by oldcpu

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

She notes there are legal aspects in Thailand, where a spouse signature is required (such as going for a loan, complications for a Thai woman on Board of Directors of a Thai company (wrt needing husband's signature)).  Also this being Thailand, and her of course raised in Thailand and knowing how laws can change at times  (and be reverted), she does have a fear that things could revert to the past (~40 years back) when Thai woman could not own property if married to a foreigner.  I keep reminding her that is the past and not today, and she keeps reminding me that things do not always move progressively in this part of the world.  

The not being able to own land rule was rescinded due to the constitution of 1997 making the rights of a woman more equal. It has also been in the last two constitutions so there is about zero chance of it being changed.

Same for changing her name to yours. That was rescinded in 2002. 

My wife has had my name since we got married here in 2001 She has never had a problem with doing many things which includes being a village head person for 5 years. I don't recall ever having to sign anything due to it.

Not sure the other things are factual.

 

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

*  Go to Bangkok from Phuket and stay there in Bangkok for almost a week.

   *   Obtain an English declaration form with instructions available at the Canadian Embassy.

   *  Complete the English declaration form and submit the completed form to the Embassy with the fee for notary service (about 1200 baht)
   *  Have the completed and notarized English declaration translated into Thai by a certified translator in Bangkok. This could take1-2 days to complete.
   *   Take the documents to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs and have them certified there.

   *   Head back to Phuket

   *   In Phuket have the marriage registered at the appropriate Phuket district office

You will not be registering a new marriage at an Amphoe. You would be registering your foreign marriage to get a Kor Ror 22 mariage registry that immigration requires. No need to do a declaration at your embassy.

Your marriage certificate does need to be legalized. Not sure how that is done for one issued in Canada. It might be as simple as doing a self certification of it by doing a statutory declaration a the embassy that it is true, correct and valid that would be accepted by an Amphoe.

As far as the translation and having it certified by the Consular Affairs Department that can be done with one trip to a translation service and having them do it for you and then mailing it all back to you. There may be a translation service in Phuket that can do it all for you.

 

 

 

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

This has me thinking, that an approach that could be adopted by MoH would be to in essence 'contract out' certification of International Health Insurance to Thailand hospitals such as Bumrungrad, Bangkok Hospital, Vichaiyut Hospital, etc ... where a foreigner who has superior International Health Insurance goes to the hospital, and for a nominal fee of a few thousand baht (charged by the hospital) would have the hospital check the foreigner's insurance, have the hospital stamp/approve an official Thai document for the foreigner, and that would be accepted by Immigration as proof of health Insurance meeting/exceeding the Thai government health insurance requirement. 

A good suggestion, and surely worth considering by the thai authorities when they consider updating (improving) the present shamble before rolling it out further to other Visa categories.

However, it will only address one part of the problem the present mandatory thai-approved healht-insurance scheme created.

Other aspects that have not been taken into consideration and would need to be addressed are a.o.:

- OA holders with full coverage in their home-country (often referred to as 'Nanny' countries), that only require travel-insurance (which includes re-patriation when required);

- OA holders which are already covered under the thai social-security system;

- OA holders that due to age (+75 years) or pre-existing conditions, are presently in the impossibility to subscribe to any of the available thai-approved health-insurance policies.

 

 

[UKresonant]

30 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Would that not be a win-win scenario?

A concept of thinking, that does not appear to have featured, over the past year. 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by UKresonant

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

My wife has had my name since we got married here in 2001 She has never had a problem with doing many things which includes being a village head person for 5 years. I don't recall ever having to sign anything due to it.

Not sure the other things are factual.

 

You will not be registering a new marriage at an Amphoe. You would be registering your foreign marriage to get a Kor Ror 22 mariage registry that immigration requires. No need to do a declaration at your embassy.

Your marriage certificate does need to be legalized. Not sure how that is done for one issued in Canada. It might be as simple as doing a self certification of it by doing a statutory declaration a the embassy that it is true, correct and valid that would be accepted by an Amphoe.

As far as the translation and having it certified by the Consular Affairs Department that can be done with one trip to a translation service and having them do it for you and then mailing it all back to you. There may be a translation service in Phuket that can do it all for you.

 

 

 

My wife kept her own name, and I kept my name when we married.  Hence we are registered as married in both Canada and Germany, both under our original names.

 

wrt requirements - its difficult to confirm the paperwork requirements, as most info web sites talk of a 'new' marriage in Thailand, and not a simple registration of a 'foreign' marriage in Thailand.  Our research does thou suggest that the local authorities in Phuket want the Canadian Embassy/consulate in Bangkok to certify that our Canadian marriage paperwork is indeed valid.  That will be in English (or French) and that then requires translation to Thai. Since we will already be in Bangkok (needing to go to the Embassy for the the Canadian marriage certificate certification) then we might as well get the translation done in Bangkok, and then while in Bangkok make a visit to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  Perhaps thou, as you note, the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs can mail the documents back to us - as opposed to us waiting in Bangkok. 

 

I've been looking for easier ways to do this, but I don't think the Bangkok trip is unavoidable.  Having typed that, I enjoy Bangkok, but my wife does not.

 

wrt signatures (of the spouse) I do know for certain it is accurate for certain types of loans, where in Thailand the spouse signature is needed. One Thai/German couple I know, had an experience where the wife went for a mortgage for a condominium, and they both had to co-sign over 100-pages in a series of Thai documents for the loan approval, even thou it was to only be in her name.  Like Germany and other countries, Thailand does love its paperwork.   wrt 'Board of Directors' I do not know if true - my wife was throwing assorted reasons my way for not registering the marriage in Thailand.  

 

Of course, I teased her in turn saying,  no worries and great ... that means I am a single man here in Thailand (and I pretended to look for my 'butterfly wings in storage').  Fortunately she saw the humour in that.

 

We were at a local government office yesterday, applying for a Yellow Tabien Baan (house registration book) for myself.  My wife was lectured by the Thai official in the office, that she should register our marriage, as it provides benefits.  That 'lecture', for the first time, has my wife thinking maybe she will agree to register the marriage.

 

So my marriage being registered could work for my keeping my (and keeping my wife's) superior Health Insurance that is heavily subsidized by my pension scheme, but unfortunately there are other foreigners on a Type-OA who have excellent international insurance (far exceeding that nominally offered by the Thai listed companies) who are not in my fortunate situation (as they don't have a Thai wife).  

 

My hope is that there will be a refinement/improvement allowing a verification of International  Health Insurance by some means, in Thailand. 

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by oldcpu
fixed typos

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Since we will already be in Bangkok (needing to go to the Embassy for the the Canadian marriage certificate certification) then we might as well get the translation done in Bangkok, and then while in Bangkok make a visit to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  Perhaps thou, as you note, the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs can mail the documents back to us - as opposed to us waiting in Bangkok. 

A trip to a translator would be all you would need to do if you paid them to handle the certification at Consular Affairs Department of the MFA (the MFA is located elsewhere) and mail it to you. The consular affairs will mail the to you as well.

Info is here: http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/6441/71860-ขั้นตอนการรับรองนิติกรณ์เอกสาร---Legalization-Proc.html

You should check with the Canadian Embassy about the legalization.

[Momofarang]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

This has me thinking, that an approach that could be adopted by MoH would be to in essence 'contract out' certification of International Health Insurance to Thailand hospitals such as Bumrungrad, Bangkok Hospital, Vichaiyut Hospital, etc ... where a foreigner who has superior International Health Insurance goes to the hospital, and for a nominal fee of a few thousand baht (charged by the hospital) would have the hospital check the foreigner's insurance, have the hospital stamp/approve an official Thai document for the foreigner, and that would be accepted by Immigration as proof of health Insurance meeting/exceeding the Thai government health insurance requirement.  

 

Would that not be a win-win scenario? The hospital gets more money.  Thailand gets people with far superior insurance who will use their insurance supporting the Thai hospitals.  And the foreigner for a nominal fee (few thousand baht ? ) is not forced to dump their superior insurance for Thai specified insurance which is not as good.

 

Of course this is not true for everyone, but it would be good for those of us who already have excellent health and insurance for us and our families, and who were never a burdon on the Thai taxpayer.

 

I wonder if such an approach was ever considered?   One difficulty I see is International Health Insurance is not always structured in terms of in-patient/out-patient, so having a hospital such as Bumrungrad, Bangkok Hospital, Vichaiyut Hospital  confirm the Thai in-patient/out-patient requirement is met, may not be so easy (and hence not doable for a few thousand baht).

One key to get the large private hospital involved is to convince them that, because of the ridiculous level of coverage provided under the OA scam, they will gain absolutely nothing as only public hospitals would be within range for the policy holders. In fact they'd be likely to lose business as good customers, like me, could leave the country altogether. The fact that Bangkok hospital and Bumrungrad have the same shareholder could also make things easier.

[Thaidream]

3 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

good suggestion, and surely worth considering by the thai authorities when they consider updating (improving) the present shamble before rolling it out further to other Visa categories.

However, it will only address one part of the problem the present mandatory thai-approved healht-insurance scheme created.

Other aspects that have not been taken into consideration and would need to be addressed are a.o.:

- OA holders with full coverage in their home-country (often referred to as 'Nanny' countries), that only require travel-insurance (which includes re-patriation when required);

- OA holders which are already covered under the thai social-security system;

- OA holders that due to age (+75 years) or pre-existing conditions, are presently in the impossibility to subscribe to any of the available thai-approved health-insurance policies.

I have another suggestion-

 

- Grandfather everyone in Thailand on An o-A original Visa dated prior to 31 October 2019-  Insurance not needed.  These people are already advancing in age and the vast majority have financial resources to cover most medical expenses.  The rest who don;t- you simply write it off- it's the cost of doing business. (Note: The majority of foreign medical visits are by tourists- not the expat community) 

 

-For an O=A Visa issued after 31 Oct 2019 Insurance requirement applies

 

-Accept any foreign insurance and simply change the form  need to simply state  the coverage and signed by one person-the agent who sells it with a name and  phone number.

 

- Accept  US Government Insurance- or other Foreign Government Insurance- An ID Card or document from the US Goverment or other Government proves you have it.

 

-Accept  Thai Social Security and open the system immediately to any long stay foreigner who needs medical insurance.

 

The key is the grandfathering of prio O-A holders- it takes the pressure off of evereyone- the long stayer- the Thai Government and Thai immigrations.  So simple- so easy - Want to save face- just do it-and say that's what we meant in the first place.

[JohnHauser]

What NON-IMMI Visa I/we have ?

 

Me and my buddy (different countries) aren't sure what type of Visa we are having (O or O-A).

 

We both made our 1st retirement Visa (years ago) in Thailand.

(800K in the Bank, pension)

 

Any hint how I can find out 'O' or 'O-A' ?

(all the stamps in the PAssport don't state it)

 

Thanks for your help and I apologize if that is already somewhere written and I overlooked it.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by JohnHauser

[oldcpu]

4 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Other aspects that have not been taken into consideration and would need to be addressed are a.o.:

- OA holders with full coverage in their home-country (often referred to as 'Nanny' countries), that only require travel-insurance (which includes re-patriation when required);

- OA holders which are already covered under the thai social-security system;

- OA holders that due to age (+75 years) or pre-existing conditions, are presently in the impossibility to subscribe to any of the available thai-approved health-insurance policies.

 

1.   wrt "OA holders with full coverage in their home-country (often referred to as 'Nanny' countries), that only require travel-insurance (which includes re-patriation when required)"

 

I don't think this is straight forward, so I can understand Thailand's reluctance to certify such as adequate.  My understanding is some home countries require one be in their home country greater than 50% of the year to qualify for their home country insurance.  Further some countries 'travel insurance' is not intended to cover a person for as long as 5-months out of the country.   How can Thailand confirm that the home country criteria is met by a person for those countries?   How can Thailand be certain they are not being scammed by a person?

 

Will those countries give Thailand government a verification letter that the Thailand requirement is met?  I suspect not.  If so , that could help.

 

wrt re-patriation insurance - My experience is that sort of insurance can actually be incredibly expensive, dependent on the medical condition of the person being repatriated, and can cost more than the Thai authorized health insurance (I have such insurance - fortunately heavily subsidised)

 

2.  wrt "OA holders which are already covered under the thai social-security system" ...

 

I'm curious, what is the story here?  Is Thailand asking for double health insurance? or is Thailand asking for these people to be taken out of the Thai social-security system?

 

3.  wrt "OA holders that due to age (+75 years) or pre-existing conditions, are presently in the impossibility to subscribe to any of the available thai-approved health-insurance policies" -

 

How can Thailand address this?  Could 75+ year olds be allowed to go for International insurance that covers +75-year olds?  If so, then Momofarang and my previous thinking that those with superior international health insurance could be verified by some Thai hospitals, could be a work around.

 

I suspect, for those +75 years, another possibility needing to be addressed, would be provision for self insurance based on some TBD amount frozen in the bank (possibly an additional 800k Thai baht, on top of the current financial requirements for a Type-OA Visa).  But there would need to be admin aspects put in place, with medical power-of-atourney granted to someone who could control the 800k.  ie such that if the +75-year old had an unexpected medical condition where they could not authorise the medical expenses, then the person with the power-of-atourney could cover such ... and have the power-of-atourney contact number stored in some government database that hospitals could access.    Possibly that is not the best approach, but something would need to be put in place for 'self-insurance' to cover the case where those self insured can not make the insurance payment themselves.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by oldcpu

[Sheryl]

10 hours ago, Momofarang said:

I don't blame immigration, it is the MoH who should provide, an "Insurance certification office". This could have been achieved easily. At Bumrungrad or Bangkok hospital they have easy access into my Insurance details and accept this as guarantee before admission. A similar setup could be used by MoH to issue certificates to be handed over to Immigration. They don't want to do it because there is no money to be made from it. T.I.T once more.

Actually MoPH wanted foreign insurance accepted. Seems to have been the OIC who nixed it. 

[SamMunich]

Official sides in TH claim, some 500 mill. Baht are open from treating foreigners. That claim covers how many years? And even if true, that is only 1% of the money, the Thai Government has forgotten to pay to the Thai Social Security Office, which also covers Health Insurance (mostly for Thais).
I assume, the Thai Insurance Industry is looking for new avenues of creating income and singled out rich foreign customers as promising targets. Then a little bit of greasing at the right places and such a proposal is made and subsequently enforced. Would not be the first time things went this way.
With many sides in TH meanwhile complaining loudly about the faltering tourism I doubt this will last much longer or even be enlarged.

[Sheryl]

49 minutes ago, JohnHauser said:

What NON-IMMI Visa I/we have ?

 

Me and my buddy (different countries) aren't sure what type of Visa we are having (O or O-A).

 

We both made our 1st retirement Visa (years ago) in Thailand.

(800K in the Bank, pension)

 

Any hint how I can find out 'O' or 'O-A' ?

(all the stamps in the PAssport don't state it)

 

Thanks for your help and I apologize if that is already somewhere written and I overlooked it.

 

 

In the first page or 2 of your psssport will be a stamp entered by immigration when you got the new passport (assuming you have gotten a new passport since retirement extensions began).  One of these will contain data on your previous passport and date of entry and visa type. 

 

OA visas are only issued in your home country from a Thai Embassy or Consulate and you would have had to show financial statements etc to get it and then it would have been valid for one year.  If you did not go through that process you likely have an O visa. Bit look for the stamp I describe at the beginning of your passport.

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, SamMunich said:

Official sides in TH claim, some 500 mill. Baht are open from treating foreigners. That claim covers how many years? And even if true, that is only 1% of the money, the Thai Government has forgotten to pay to the Thai Social Security Office, which also covers Health Insurance (mostly for Thais).
I assume, the Thai Insurance Industry is looking for new avenues of creating income and singled out rich foreign customers as promising targets. Then a little bit of greasing at the right places and such a proposal is made and subsequently enforced. Would not be the first time things went this way.
With many sides in TH meanwhile complaining loudly about the faltering tourism I doubt this will last much longer or even be enlarged.

No, it began from the Health Ministry based on a genuine problem and fear it will only worsen as retirees age.

 

It just went horribly wrong in the development of a solution. Really, really wrong. Partly because too many different government entities were involved. Partly due to lack of knowledge about the target polulation. Partly due to lobbying by the private insurance sector.

 

And lastly because the actual wording of the police order, as always is done by Immigration and they seem to specialize in vahue wording and inability to clearly inform their rank and file on how to interptet and apply.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

..

 

Quote

I'm curious, what is the story here?  Is Thailand asking for double health insurance? or is Thailand asking for these people to be taken out of the Thai social-security system?

 

Neither. Those who developed the regulation seem to be utterly unaware of the fact that there are many retirees covered by Thai SS through prior employment and thus it is not mentioned and no exception exists for them in terms of the insurance requirement. So in that sense, yes they are being forced to have double insurance but not intentionally.

 

There is no push to get foreigners out of Thai SS and under the terms if the SS Act it cannot be done.

 

This is but one of many things not taken into consideration. Others include the fact that most older people have pre-existing conditions which their existing foreign policies cover but a new policy will not....so forcing people to switch to a local policy,, if they can even get one,, will render them effectively uninsured rather than insured.

 

And many more things. 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Actually MoPH wanted foreign insurance accepted. Seems to have been the OIC who nixed it.

He'd already bought a new Mercedes Benz and condo, had he...?

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

1.   wrt "OA holders with full coverage in their home-country (often referred to as 'Nanny' countries), that only require travel-insurance (which includes re-patriation when required)"

I don't think this is straight forward, so I can understand Thailand's reluctance to certify such as adequate.  My understanding is some home countries require one be in their home country greater than 50% of the year to qualify for their home country insurance.  Further some countries 'travel insurance' is not intended to cover a person for as long as 5-months out of the country.   How can Thailand confirm that the home country criteria is met by a person for those countries?   How can Thailand be certain they are not being scammed by a person?

Will those countries give Thailand government a verification letter that the Thailand requirement is met?  I suspect not.  If so , that could help.

wrt re-patriation insurance - My experience is that sort of insurance can actually be incredibly expensive, dependent on the medical condition of the person being repatriated, and can cost more than the Thai authorized health insurance (I have such insurance - fortunately heavily subsidised)

 

2.  wrt "OA holders which are already covered under the thai social-security system" ...

 

3.  wrt "OA holders that due to age (+75 years) or pre-existing conditions, are presently in the impossibility to subscribe to any of the available thai-approved health-insurance policies" -

Points 2. and 3. have been more than accurately addressed by Sheryl in her response to your post.

 

Re point 1. >>> Most probably you are a US citizen and are not fully knowledgeable on how health-care works in many West-European countries (mandatory health-care for all).  As a result, and although well intended, your comments are based on several mis-conceptions.  In order to make my response as concrete as possible I will use my own situation, but it is applicable for many citizens of West-European countries being on long-stay in Thailand.

 

#1 - OP = My understanding is some home countries require one be in their home country greater than 50% of the year to qualify for their home country insurance. 

>>> Not fully correct.  Although I stay more than 10 months a year in Thailand, my residence is still in my home-country (Belgium) and as a result I am 100% covered for any accidents/illnesses that might occur.  And those will get high-quality treatment in my home-country without me having to pay anything.  But it's not 'for free' because during my working life I - like all Belgian citizens - paid for this mandatory health-care by it being deducted automatically from any salary received.  So it is not insurance but assurance that you will get the treatment you need without any deductibles or pre-existing conditions.  Nobody is left behind...

 

#2 - OP = Further some countries 'travel insurance' is not intended to cover a person for as long as 5-months out of the country.  

>>> As I am fully covered in my home-country, I only need to have travel-insurance for any accident/illness that occurs in Thailand and requires immediate treatment.  The costs for that are covered UNLIMITED by the policy.  And the travel-insurance also includes re-patriation at no cost when treatment in my home-country is indicated.  

Such travel-insurance is surprisingly cheap in Western Europe (my annual policy costs less than 300 US $ annually and covers ALL my trips abroad up to 6 months - after 6 months I am not covered anymore, and need to be in my home-country again for 2 weeks, before my next trip is covered again).  That suits me fine as I travel at least 1-2 times a year to my home-country and use on-the-fly travel-insurance for the non-covered periods.

 

#3 - OP = How can Thailand confirm that the home country criteria is met by a person for those countries?   How can Thailand be certain they are not being scammed by a person?

Will those countries give Thailand government a verification letter that the Thailand requirement is met?  I suspect not.  If so , that could help.

>>> Thailand does not care whether I am covered in my home-country (I am for 100%), but they are or should only be interested that when I have an accident/illness in Thailand, that my hospital bills will be paid. My travel-insurance fully takes care of that (and way beyond the ridiculous 400.000 THB in-patient cap).

Actually the ONLY 3 signed and filled-in Foreign Health Insurance Certificates that meet the IO requirements that I have seen till now, are from travel-insurance companies that confirm that the health-insurance part of their policy easily meets the IO requirements.

 

#4 - OP = wrt re-patriation insurance - My experience is that sort of insurance can actually be incredibly expensive, dependent on the medical condition of the person being repatriated, and can cost more than the Thai authorized health insurance (I have such insurance - fortunately heavily subsidised)

>>> As mentioned in #2 re-patriation is fully covered by my travel-insurance policy.  And for me that's also essential, because for serious illnesses/accidents I prefer to be treated in my home-country.

 

The above goes to show that there are many aspects to this health-insurance requirement, that have simply not been taken into consideration when the thai authorities enforced the requirement on the long-stay retiree population in Thailand.  As a result nobody (except maybe the thai insurance lobby) is happy with the mess that has been created and it will have zero impact on the unpaid hospital bills that were supposed to be the trigger for this farce.  Imo the only real solution would be to grand-father all the original OA - retirement Visa extension holders and then back to the drawing board for an approach that considers the situation of all stakeholders.

 

[Momofarang]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Actually MoPH wanted foreign insurance accepted. Seems to have been the OIC who nixed it. 

You are right there we had the proof of this in their press release.

[EVENKEEL]

So, my OA was issued Sept 2019, and if just before my OA expires in Sept 2020 I leave and enter Thailand with an entry permit will I need Insurance for the second year??

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, my OA was issued Sept 2019, and if just before my OA expires in Sept 2020 I leave and enter Thailand with an entry permit will I need Insurance for the second year??

No, as the Visa is pre-Oct 31st 2019. Also you do not need a re-entry permit, as the Visa is a Multiple Entry. You would be stamped with a permission to stay a further year. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by jacko45k

[petey123]

a personal note:   i would like to thank Peter Denis for sending me a detailed road map for securing a non O retirement visa in lieu of the non OA which i have had for many years.    much appreciate the time it took Peter to compose and send me this message....    petey123

[Peter Denis]

16 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, my OA was issued Sept 2019, and if just before my OA expires in Sept 2020 I leave and enter Thailand with an entry permit will I need Insurance for the second year??

When you re-enter Thailand before your OA Visa validity expires (sept 2020) you will be stamped in for the full year that Visa entitles you to.  You will then have a permission to stay till sept 2021.

However, when exiting Thailand after your OA Visa validity has expired (sept 2020) you need to have bought a re-entry permit beforehand, in order that your permission to stay (till sept 2021) is kept alive.

You can buy such a re-entry permit at any local IO or at the Re-entry desk in the departure hall of all major thai international airports.  A single entry costs 1000 THB and a multiple re-entry costs 3800 THB.

Note: Leaving Thailand after your OA Visa validity (sept 2020) has expired, will result in your permission to stay being voided.  If you did this by accident, you will be allowed entry but it will be on 30 day VisaExempt.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Peter Denis

[EVENKEEL]

5 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

When you re-enter Thailand before your OA Visa validity expires (sept 2020) you will be stamped in for the full year that Visa entitles you to.  You will then have a permission to stay till sept 2021.

However, when exiting Thailand after your OA Visa validity has expired (sept 2020) you need to have bought a re-entry permit beforehand, in order that your permission to stay (till sept 2021) is kept alive.

You can buy such a re-entry permit at any local IO or at the Re-entry desk in the departure hall of all major thai international airports.  A single entry costs 1000 THB and a multiple re-entry costs 3800 THB.

Note: Leaving Thailand after your OA Visa validity (sept 2020) has expired, will result in your permission to stay being voided.  If you did this by accident, you will be allowed entry but it will be on 30 day VisaExempt.

Got it, thanks. Wonder how the required insurance will work entering Thailand during the second year with a re-entry permit? Regardless I'll make it work.

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Got it, thanks. Wonder how the required insurance will work entering Thailand during the second year with a re-entry permit? Regardless I'll make it work.

HI Evenkeel,

You do NOT need to show health-insurance when re-entering Thailand on a re-entry permit during the second year that the permission to stay from your OA - retirement Visa will provide you.

You will only need to show that you meet the health-insurance requirement when applying for an extension of stay based on your Non Imm OA Visa for reason of retirement.

But that's still 22 months from now, so no need to worry about the mandatory thai-approved health-insurance requirement.

Enjoy LoS and Happy Xmas days! 

[oldcpu]

On 12/24/2019 at 7:22 PM, Peter Denis said:

#1 - OP = My understanding is some home countries require one be in their home country greater than 50% of the year to qualify for their home country insurance. 

>>> Not fully correct.  Although I stay more than 10 months a year in Thailand, my residence is still in my home-country (Belgium) and as a result I am 100% covered for any accidents/illnesses that might occur.  And those will get high-quality treatment in my home-country without me having to pay anything.  But it's not 'for free' because during my working life I - like all Belgian citizens - paid for this mandatory health-care by it being deducted automatically from any salary received.  So it is not insurance but assurance that you will get the treatment you need without any deductibles or pre-existing conditions.  Nobody is left behind...

For Canadians, my understanding is you MUST be in Canada for at least six months, else you lose your health coverage.  The Canadian 'snow birds' who every year go to Florida, need to ensure they stay in Florida for less than 6-months.   Your country appears to be far more generous in its application of health insurance coverage to its citizens.

 

Just going back to Canada for 2 weeks and then leaving again for the rest of the year, does NOT restore the health insurance.

 

Given we have just now noted how 2 countries can be very different, how can Thailand officials keep track of each and every country's policy? 

[oldcpu]

On 12/24/2019 at 6:12 PM, Sheryl said:

... that most older people have pre-existing conditions which their existing foreign policies cover but a new policy will not....so forcing people to switch to a local policy,, if they can even get one,, will render them effectively uninsured rather than insured.

True, but I don't think Thai officials look at it that way. 

 

The Thai official view, I speculate (and I emphasise "speculate") is that if foreigners on a Type-OA can not get the Thai approved insurance, then the foreigners must leave.    Unfortunately (from my view) I speculate they view foreigners as guests in their country, not as citizens with embedded rights.   Ergo I speculate if its too deemed too difficult for the Thai authorities to checkup on foreign insurance (because each policy different, and because the Foreign insurance companies may NOT confirm they meet the 400k/40k in/out patient coverage), then the Thai officials do not want to deal with this situation, and I suspect they believe those foreigners who can't prove the 400k/40k need to leave.  

 

Its unfortunate, but I find big insurance companies, like governments, have a bureaucracy, and such large companies don't want to accept someone else's paperwork (such as Thailand's) but rather they want other countries such as Thailand to accept their complex many paged insurance policy paperwork (not in Thailand language).  

 

And we, as the insured, are caught in between.

[oldcpu]

On 12/24/2019 at 7:22 PM, Peter Denis said:

#4 - OP = wrt re-patriation insurance - My experience is that sort of insurance can actually be incredibly expensive, dependent on the medical condition of the person being repatriated, and can cost more than the Thai authorized health insurance (I have such insurance - fortunately heavily subsidised)

>>> As mentioned in #2 re-patriation is fully covered by my travel-insurance policy.  And for me that's also essential, because for serious illnesses/accidents I prefer to be treated in my home-country.

I agree its good to have such coverage.

 

My point is it is expensive, and some medical repatriation's (if one reads the fine print) will only cover someone if they can be flown back economy class, but not flown back in an 'invalid' state. The fine print needs to be read.

 

A full medivac, can easily cost up to $250,000 US$ - so the repatriation insurance has to cover that.  The reason for the high price, is if the person should have a bad experience mid-flight, and aircraft has to emergency land somewhere, then someone needs to pay the costs for that emergency landing (landing fees, fuel costs, aircrew costs, emergency on arrival costs, aircraft costs, plus any expenses associated with claims of other passengers on the flight, due to them missing connections, etc ..).  The repatriation insurance has to be sufficient to cover such.

 

Ergo, knowing the 'fine print' as to what is covered in the repatriation is important. Some repatriations only cover basic return flight costs, but no emergency coverage.

Edited December 26, 2019 by oldcpu