My company is struggling to get my Work Permit, my Non Imm B visa expires in Jan - what can I do?

[ThePugAndMe]

Hey,

 

I'm posting here because I'm at my wits end - last time I got some good advice on this forum!

 

So my situation is

- Arrived in BKK in May

- Got a 30 exempt, extended for 30 days.

- In July did a trip to KL and got a proper tourist visa

- Extended after 60 days whilst I looked for a job here

- Got a job at the end of Aug, worked in Sep

- Work sent me to get one of those temp 90 day visa from KL in October

 

Now it's coming up to January when this 90 day visa expires and they still haven't managed to get me my work permit!

 

I'm a programmer, but self taught with 10 years+ of experience (mixed with periods of self employment/freelancing).

I have supplied my previous work contracts to them from 2010 onwards. Apparently the BOI won't give me the work permit because they want to know how I learned my "knowledge" - it's unfathomable to them that someone didn't study this in university.

 

I have doubts about the girl at my company that is handling this situation and after 4 months of this starting to get frustrated, this is her last message about the situation:

 

Quote

 

Hey Guys
I just got the phone from BOI
BOi asked me about how he can work on this project without knowledge guarantee.

They said we can use certificate from Head company but we need to inform them the truth, Which institute or where that he got all the knowledge for programmer.

This is all experience for him. I told them. FYI

In general they don’t mind that some years missing (Not continue for work) but in this case because we cannot they them about the knowledge. That why they have a lot of a doubt in that case.
What should we do for next step?

Future permanent plan
1. We inform them about details for knowledge. (We can try this one first)
Or
2. He go to UK embassy and give the to confirm or guarantee for his CV or resume.
Or
3. He go to test with some institute for approval his knowledge.
Topic for test: PHP Programer.

Non Permanent plan
We request for permission to temporarily work as urgent (30 days)

 

 

My questions:

 

1) I've been told I can extend my 90 day visa for another 30 days to at least give us some more time - I asked the girl what was involved and still haven't heard back. Does anyone here know?

2) Is there any way I can take charge of this situation? In every other country my work experience speaks for itself, how can I convince the BOI, I have the skills for them to give me the work permit.

 

I suggested sending code examples but I was told "the BOI can't assess your skills"....

 

Thanks in adv guys!

Edited December 24, 2019 by ThePugAndMe

[FritsSikkink]

Google PHP certification, do the exam and get one.

 

https://www.bing.com/search?q=PHP+certification&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&msnews=1&refig=ec130f1704ed4085cc02c62da7b4dbac&sp=-1&pq=php+certification&sc=8-17&qs=n&sk=&cvid=ec130f1704ed4085cc02c62da7b4dbac

Edited December 24, 2019 by FritsSikkink

[tomazbodner]

Actually BOI is like that. Very detailed and even goes on to command the company what position they are allowed to or not allowed to hire you in, regardless of what the company actually wants.

 

While degree is not necessary for the work permit (AFAIK), except for teachers, there are other requirements from BOI such as training several Thai staff every year to hand the experience over (you need to provide training chart with all the names in English and Thai of staff you trained, contents and duration of training, outcome of training, etc.), which make BOI a much bigger hassle to apply at than at the Ministry of Labour in Din Daeng.

 

What I don't know is whether a BOI sponsored company can apply at Din Daeng rather than Chamchuri Square, but I'd guess with your academic background you would have had more chance of success there.

 

2 things though - in this post you clearly admit that you were working without work permit for this company (which is illegal), and your projects may expose past work for which you've had no permission, landing you in even more trouble. Be careful what you say to them.

 

Advice above to undertake classes and get academic certifications is a good one. Unfortunately things like these take time, which it seems you don't have.

[ThomasThBKK]

2 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Advice above to undertake classes and get academic certifications is a good one. Unfortunately things like these take time, which it seems you don't have.

https://www.guru99.com/best-linux-certifications.html These usually  are doable in weeks, op could then work as a "DevOps engineer" there.

 

But as a side node i find this requirement to be hilarious and it just shows much thailand is out of touch with reality.

The whole IT sector, me including is full with college dropouts a la zuckerberg....

[Nakmuay887]

seems weird you would be supplied one and then denied after when it came to the renewal of it. How competent do you feel this company is? I would extend your visa 30 days at immigration and then do a land border crossing as a last resort for another 30 days if you still needed more time.

 

You should probably start looking elsewhere for employment that's stable at least so you avoid this headache in the future.

 

Best of luck to you!

[ThomasThBKK]

7 minutes ago, Nakmuay887 said:

seems weird you would be supplied one and then denied after when it came to the renewal of it. How competent do you feel this company is? I would extend your visa 30 days at immigration and then do a land border crossing as a last resort for another 30 days if you still needed more time.

 

You should probably start looking elsewhere for employment that's stable at least so you avoid this headache in the future.

 

Best of luck to you!

 

This all seems hilarious because igluu is also a BOI i think and they don't check any of this stuff. Just came to my mind...

[Bangel72]

Also noticed quite a few more hoops for people to get a work permit this year, sometimes six iterations of ping pong back and forth before they give up and accept the application if you are lucky.

self employed and freelancing is often overlooked on the application so it will often come down to 'recognised' degree from 'recognised' university and multiple years real work experience and an employee of a known company. References and real work examples may help beyond that.

It used to take an hour and a small 'cup of tea' but when they removed that option they also may have got rid of any sense of efficiency and maybe even some common sense at the same time.

 

[tomazbodner]

47 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

https://www.guru99.com/best-linux-certifications.html These usually  are doable in weeks, op could then work as a "DevOps engineer" there.

 

But as a side node i find this requirement to be hilarious and it just shows much thailand is out of touch with reality.

The whole IT sector, me including is full with college dropouts a la zuckerberg....

Comptia is certainly doable in a month or so, but I don't think it would suffice. I have (alas not Linux) certification from them and it's just PDF downloaded certificate with expiry date. Don't think BOI would accept that in lieu of a university degree.

[VocalNeal]

In Indonesia they require proof of employment in a similar job/industry. This they get from the reference letters one gets when leaving a company.

Could be the same here?  Copies of past contracts maybe no good.  See if your past "employers will give you a letter, on letterhead, confirming your work periods with them. 5 years should do. They don't have to be consecutive.

Edited December 24, 2019 by VocalNeal

[SbuxPlease]

Feel for you, these situations feel impossible. A lot of people, might uh... find a bachelors degree somewhere in their sock drawer to provide for this purpose.

 

[natway09]

I doubt the Labour Dept will extend without you having a Non Imm B & just recently a Tax ID

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

In Indonesia they require proof of employment in a similar job/industry. This they get from the reference letters one gets when leaving a company.

Could be the same here?  Copies of past contracts maybe no good.  See if your past "employers will give you a letter, on letterhead, confirming your work periods with them. 5 years should do. They don't have to be consecutive.

Yes, in my experience it is usually university degree OR letters of reference showing more than five years of experience.  I have been employed here for 24 years and I've worked for five different companies in that time - all BOI companies - and have never presented educational certificates (because I didn't go to university).  My experience and references have always sufficed.

At my current company we have 17 staff and 8 of them are foreigners, including me, and all of us have been granted our work permits this year as we only get BOI approval and VAT registration etc set up at the end of 2018.  Out of those eight only one of us has a university degree.  We do have an admin manager who is amazing and knows the BOI inside out so that helps; I get the impression your company doesn't know what they're doing or don't have experience with the BOI.

 

Get some reference letters from previous employers (on headed paper with company stamp) and try again.  As long as you have more than five years' experience you should be fine.

[josephbloggs]

9 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Yes, in my experience it is usually university degree OR letters of reference showing more than five years of experience.  I have been employed here for 24 years and I've worked for five different companies in that time - all BOI companies - and have never presented educational certificates (because I didn't go to university).  My experience and references have always sufficed.

At my current company we have 17 staff and 8 of them are foreigners, including me, and all of us have been granted our work permits this year as we only get BOI approval and VAT registration etc set up at the end of 2018.  Out of those eight only one of us has a university degree.  We do have an admin manager who is amazing and knows the BOI inside out so that helps; I get the impression your company doesn't know what they're doing or don't have experience with the BOI.

 

Get some reference letters from previous employers (on headed paper with company stamp) and try again.  As long as you have more than five years' experience you should be fine.

Oh, and if you are on good terms with your previous employers (or previous people who gave you contract work) ask them to include some things that you know they look for:

 

"Mr X was always willing to devote time to passing on his knowledge to junior staff and we saw many of his subordinates achieve promotions and go on to successful careers in programming."

Make sure the message comes across loud and clear that you train, you bring people up, you share your knowledge.

[ThomasThBKK]

5 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Comptia is certainly doable in a month or so, but I don't think it would suffice. I have (alas not Linux) certification from them and it's just PDF downloaded certificate with expiry date. Don't think BOI would accept that in lieu of a university degree.

I used my RHEL cert in dubai, was ok there as a proof of education for temp residency... But yeah this is thailand, no one knows what they will accept until someone tries it.

[tomazbodner]

1 minute ago, ThomasThBKK said:

I used my RHEL cert in dubai, was ok there as a proof of education for temp residency... But yeah this is thailand, no one knows what they will accept until someone tries it.

Worth a shot I guess. It's only a few 100 $ and actually not a bad course at all. At least what I studied was useful. Certification itself so far hasn't exactly brought any extra value, though.

[mockingbird]

On 12/24/2019 at 11:18 AM, ThomasThBKK said:

 

This all seems hilarious because igluu is also a BOI i think and they don't check any of this stuff. Just came to my mind...

Iglu are no longer BOI. BOI won't issue work permits to them anymore.

[ThePugAndMe]

Hey guys, I forgot to mention that I did print out references on company letter heads for all my previous employers... they didn't take that either! ????

 

So suggestions are

 

1) I probably won't be able to extend

2) I should do a course (<deleted>! I've got tons of work already) and get a certification

3) Keep trying until they get annoyed and accept it?

[ukrules]

8 hours ago, ThePugAndMe said:

1) I probably won't be able to extend

2) I should do a course (<deleted>! I've got tons of work already) and get a certification

3) Keep trying until they get annoyed and accept it?

There is another option : Leave this backwards country and go somewhere that welcomes you for your skills.

 

Don't take this as any kind of 'dig', because it's not - it's the most sensible option.

[josephbloggs]

51 minutes ago, ukrules said:

There is another option : Leave this backwards country and go somewhere that welcomes you for your skills.

 

Don't take this as any kind of 'dig', because it's not - it's the most sensible option.

Yeah because so many countries just throw their arms open to people who say they can do stuff and don't actually need any proof.  No offence to the OP, I am sure he is very well qualified, but why make such a ridiculous comment?

The UK has strict criteria for issuing work permits including qualifications and language (based on a points system).  Why should Thailand be any different?  Or why is it backward for having foreign employment standards?

 

I assume you've already packed up and left this backward place?

 

[jackdd]

On 12/24/2019 at 10:23 AM, ThePugAndMe said:

- Got a job at the end of Aug, worked in Sep

- Work sent me to get one of those temp 90 day visa from KL in October

 

Now it's coming up to January when this 90 day visa expires and they still haven't managed to get me my work permit!

So they let you work illegally for 4 months? I doubt they will ever get a work permit for you

[ukrules]

12 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I assume you've already packed up and left this backward place?

No, I haven't but then again I'm not looking for work so it's a very different set of circumstances.

 

If I was going to start work, either by forming a company and hiring a bunch of people or just on my own then I almost certainly wouldn't do it here in Thailand.

[ThePugAndMe]

On 12/26/2019 at 6:46 PM, josephbloggs said:

Yeah because so many countries just throw their arms open to people who say they can do stuff and don't actually need any proof.  No offence to the OP, I am sure he is very well qualified, but why make such a ridiculous comment?

The UK has strict criteria for issuing work permits including qualifications and language (based on a points system).  Why should Thailand be any different?  Or why is it backward for having foreign employment standards?

 

I assume you've already packed up and left this backward place?

 

 

I have a Github profile full of code, 10 years worth of projects.... and I launched a startup that was funded earlier this year. All of these could be used as examples if I was getting a UK work permit. Thailand's BOI/Immigration has nobody who can review this stuff. That's the difference.

[tabarin]

I am a drop out too but my BOI company just took care of it with some nice resume etc (Maybe it was easier at the time, it is a few years back).
Guess as said your easiest chance is to get certified for something, even it is a joke. Dance to the tune they started to play or lose anyway.

 

They are all about degrees in this country, even we all know how easy it is to get one as you can't fail a year + low standards.

Edited January 1, 2020 by tabarin

[tabarin]

On 12/26/2019 at 6:52 PM, jackdd said:

So they let you work illegally for 4 months? I doubt they will ever get a work permit for you

Is not illegal if processing as far I know. Also it is quite a time consuming process sometimes.
Many BOI are careful the first months, many people still leave within that timeframe (by choice or forced due to lacking performance).