visa renewal denied at CM immigration. Visa expires.

[Nakmuay887]

On 12/24/2019 at 9:00 PM, tomahawk said:

Thank you so much for your kind answers. Nakmuay, thank you especially for your offer. I will plan to go to Mae Sai as it is closer. Merry Christmas to you all.

My pleasure. Let me know if you need anything. 

 

How did the trip turn out? All is well now? 

[Gweiloman]

2 hours ago, Nakmuay887 said:

Just doing the neighbourly thing. We've all been down on our luck at times. It can be daunting! Especially in a foreign country with no safety net. 

 

I'll always do my best to help my fellow expats and Thai's alike. 

#respect

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, shy coconut said:

What are you talking about? It was the foreign office/embassy staff who withdrew the

confirmation letters, nothing to do with immigration having different rules for different

nationalities.

You would have to show me where I ever said it was anything to do with immigration.

As well as reading posts you really ought to try and understand them.

You may well want believe that the method immigration chose to apply to those without a letter is similar to that used for those with a letter, and of course that is your right.

There is however always more than one way to skin a cat.

[Chivas]

On 12/24/2019 at 11:51 PM, mike787 said:

And reasons like this are why expats are leaving, they get no leniency from Thai immigration.

.......and what leniency pray tell would the USA or UK observe

[Nakmuay887]

OP are you still alive? say something man! Update us

[Nakmuay887]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

#respect

for as much as many expats like to complain about one another while complaining about everyone else, I still believe the majority are great folks. I met one such guy last week who came down to see the children I have been helping and was an incredible asset to the kids and myself alike. 

 

I am just offering what I can. It's not much but if I can help another "farang" out at times I will. Even if it gets me burned. Mother always said "If you are more fortunate than others, build a longer table. Not a taller fence"

[tomahawk]

Thank you for your support and kindness. At least, thank you for those of you whoa re kind. I did make it to border at Mae sai and paid 2 days overstay fine and have 30 day extension. But let me warn you of this. Even though I have never done Mae Sai border crossing  in my life, the officer said I was denied extension because only 2 crossings a year are allowed. He said this without even checking to see if I ever was at border. Obviously he just did not want to give me xtension. But thank you Jesus my Thai wife showed up and spoke to him, and he changed hsi mind and gave me extension. As for those who say I should have all this money saved up, I have supported 13 Thai children through high school on my retirement pension and adopted a boy abandoned by his mother at bus station. .And then my wife got cancer and had operation. If my wife and I were just here enjoying cheap living, we could have saved all this money. We are Christians and not missionaries but we wish to pay back the Lord. I am not preaching, just explaining my financial situation. Merry Christmas everyone.

[Scott]

Inflammatory post and reply reported and removed.

 

[Nakmuay887]

10 minutes ago, tomahawk said:

Thank you for your support and kindness. At least, thank you for those of you whoa re kind. I did make it to border at Mae sai and paid 2 days overstay fine and have 30 day extension. But let me warn you of this. Even though I have never done Mae Sai border crossing  in my life, the officer said I was denied extension because only 2 crossings a year are allowed. He said this without even checking to see if I ever was at border. Obviously he just did not want to give me xtension. But thank you Jesus my Thai wife showed up and spoke to him, and he changed hsi mind and gave me extension. As for those who say I should have all this money saved up, I have supported 13 Thai children through high school on my retirement pension and adopted a boy abandoned by his mother at bus station. .And then my wife got cancer and had operation. If my wife and I were just here enjoying cheap living, we could have saved all this money. We are Christians and not missionaries but we wish to pay back the Lord. I am not preaching, just explaining my financial situation. Merry Christmas everyone.

Yes it's two land crossings per calendar year. The calender year fortunately starts over in a few days 

 

Life happens some days, don't stress it and use this time to plan for the future. 

 

You sound like a good man and I wish you all the best. If you need anything in the future let me know. If I can help in any way I will 

[Nakmuay887]

12 minutes ago, tomahawk said:

Thank you for your support and kindness. At least, thank you for those of you whoa re kind. I did make it to border at Mae sai and paid 2 days overstay fine and have 30 day extension. But let me warn you of this. Even though I have never done Mae Sai border crossing  in my life, the officer said I was denied extension because only 2 crossings a year are allowed. He said this without even checking to see if I ever was at border. Obviously he just did not want to give me xtension. But thank you Jesus my Thai wife showed up and spoke to him, and he changed hsi mind and gave me extension. As for those who say I should have all this money saved up, I have supported 13 Thai children through high school on my retirement pension and adopted a boy abandoned by his mother at bus station. .And then my wife got cancer and had operation. If my wife and I were just here enjoying cheap living, we could have saved all this money. We are Christians and not missionaries but we wish to pay back the Lord. I am not preaching, just explaining my financial situation. Merry Christmas everyone.

Also it's two crossings into Thailand total by land. Not two at each crossing. That's why he would have denied you 

[tomahawk]

Thank you Nakmuay. It is obvious you are a good man yourself. God bless you.

[Langkawee]

There's a welcoming country with friendly locals. Vietnam and Philippine. Do yourself a favour and take the hint. 

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 6:59 PM, Drax said:

Move to Vietname. 40%+ cheaper and easy 4 visa. Since your American your paying taxes worldwide so no benefits staying here. Especially 4 beers cigars and cars. They’re much cheaper over there. 

Good idea, if you can't afford a "third world country" like many of you leavers call it, better to move somewhere cheaper. What would that country be called then?

Edited December 26, 2019 by FritsSikkink

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, Langkawee said:

There's a welcoming country with friendly locals. Vietnam and Philippine. Do yourself a favour and take the hint. 

He has a boy he has accepted responsibility for and a wife who has been sick.......

[Chazar]

On 12/25/2019 at 4:45 PM, mcl2504 said:

I hadn't thought of that analogy. But even with that line of thinking, the landlord isn't obliged to renew your rental agreement when the lease comes to an end, and if you don't fulfill your obligations as a tenant during the rental period, they would have the right to throw you out. So it does cut both ways. The tenant never has a permanent right to live in the landlord's property. Nor is the landlord under any obligation to rent out his/her property. It could just sit empty. So whether we are like guests or like tenants, our rights are limited. At least that's the way I see it.

Yet  you can buy a  20  year  visa and the landlord  can still change the rules at anytime ..Thai  Elite 1million baht

[Chazar]

21 hours ago, moe666 said:

They have their rules not hard to comply with, that way everyone knows what they need. How screwed would it be if they cut one guy slack then everyone would be asking for slack. I have never seen any sign saying immigration benevolent society,

Oh  I dont know , plenty of stories of under table askings .......from THEM and then theres the "agents"  who seem to "fix" everything and who gets that  money??

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Chivas said:

.......and what leniency pray tell would the USA or UK observe

"Leniency" wasn't really the best word to use, implies a judgement and not something we should want.

Rules are rules but objectives are never confined to a single approach, that is a choice of those responsible for implementation.

When the certain embassies stopped providing supporting documents and the Thais had to introduce an alternative arrangement it may have been better if that new arrangement had been applied to all nationalities. I suspect that much of the criticism of those struggling with the new arrangement comes from those that retained the more flexible approach.

[Sheryl]

On 12/25/2019 at 9:16 AM, sandyf said:

Are you trying to say that 12 consecutive deposits to a Thai bank is the only alternative to an Embassy letter.

One has to assume that 4 deposits of 3 times the amount, or any other combination, just doesn't equate.

 It may "equate" but it is not acceptable under Imm rules.

 

2 options:

 

1. Monthly transfers from abroad of at least 65k into a Thai bank 

 

2. Lump sum 800k in a Thai bank (with restrictions on spending it).

 

If married to a Thai can switch to extension based on marriage in which case amounts ate less (40k/month or 400k in bank) and no restrictions on spending the lump sum.

 

OP needs to figure out  what he will do after he re enters visa exempt.

 

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 It may "equate" but it is not acceptable under I.m rules.

Do you really think that I am not aware of that, it does not mean that a more flexible approach could not be adopted,

Options are a personal issue, I chose to return to a visa.

[Nyezhov]

On 12/25/2019 at 6:51 AM, mike787 said:

And reasons like this are why expats are leaving, they get no leniency from Thai immigration.

nor do they deserve any, any more than any alien in a foreign country deserves it....

[phuketrichard]

41 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Do you really think that I am not aware of that, it does not mean that a more flexible approach could not be adopted,

Options are a personal issue, I chose to return to a visa.

prehaps once ur running thai immigration you can inplimment the new rules ..

[ubonjoe]

58 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Do you really think that I am not aware of that, it does not mean that a more flexible approach could not be adopted,

Options are a personal issue, I chose to return to a visa.

Extensions have always required a monthly income for extensions based upon marriage or retirement. So not surprising the police order requires 12 months of transfers.

The clause of the police order for extensions based upon marriage allows a average income of 40k baht but that even has to be for 12 months. I assume a small transfer for a couple of months as long as the annual income totaled 480k baht it might be accepted. But some offices have insisted a average is not allowed even though it is clearly written in the orders it is allowed.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Extensions have always required a monthly income for extensions based upon marriage or retirement. So not surprising the police order requires 12 months of transfers.

The clause of the police order for extensions based upon marriage allows a average income of 40k baht but that even has to be for 12 months. I assume a small transfer for a couple of months as long as the annual income totaled 480k baht it might be accepted. But some offices have insisted a average is not allowed even though it is clearly written in the orders it is allowed.

Your first sentence is not quite true, extensions on an income basis have not always required a monthly income, they have required that annual income be shown as monthly income, something quite different.

I have never disputed the rules as they stand and the obligation to observe the rules, that however does not mean that they cannot be open to amendment.

You more than anyone should be aware that inconsistency and ambiguity are the root of all evil in respect of extensions.

Personally, when they brought out the new ruling I decided to stay away from immigration until the fog lifts.

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Your first sentence is not quite true, extensions on an income basis have not always required a monthly income, they have required that annual income be shown as monthly income, something quite different.

Maybe when a proof of income document was done at some embassies. Mine only showed monthly income.

This what the police order for extensions states. "(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month" 

Or for marriage. "(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month"

[UKresonant]

14 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Maybe when a proof of income document was done at some embassies. Mine only showed monthly income.

This what the police order for extensions states. "(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month" 

Or for marriage. "(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month"

However the test that is being implemented, (for those without a letter) from the posts I've read, is each calendar month, a transfer from overseas must be made to a Thai bank, and they shall take the transfer of the lowest in month value over the 12 months, as being the hurdle to qualify, which even then will likely be <98% (unless you have a free transfer facility, there and here) of what is sent. That is what, In part, has disrupted the OPs stability it would seem.

Though I'm just playing with the monthly transfers, and in any case not transferring current income, I'm only transferring one of my pension values equal to what it was 12 months ago. If I were transferring live, and it mattered, The pension payments are not the same each month, though they have settled now to one higher payment in May as indexing is applied (this is not state pension), and then 11 similar amounts affected by minor tax tweaks. Add to this substantial currency flux etc. Implementation then appears quite different from the police order text intent.

[The daughter just did an income submission for something in the UK (.GOV related), and it was based on a 13 week sample period, within 12-13 months and you could select the sample period.! ]

So proving 800k/480k income is no longer the test, it's whether the transfers are disrupted ever so slightly, the bank may halt a payment for some sort of check, or a variety of other minor glitches, etc.

 

So are these initially plausible implementations, by design, or just lack of knowledge, with parallel things like the O-A insurance implementation, being similar examples...

Edited December 27, 2019 by UKresonant

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, UKresonant said:

However the test that is being implemented, (for those without a letter) from the posts I've read, is each calendar month, a transfer from overseas must be made to a Thai bank, and they shall take the transfer of the lowest in month value over the 12 months, as being the hurdle to qualify, which even then will likely be <98% (unless you have a free transfer facility, there and here) of what is sent. That is what, In part, has disrupted the OPs stability it would seem.

The OP apparently had no transfers into the country.

When applying they want bank statements showing 12 months of transfers into the country equal to 65k for retirement (no average allowed but the combination option is possible). Same for the 40k baht for marriage but as I wrote before a average income is allowed according to the written rules which would be a annual income of 480k baht but there still would need to be 12 months of transfers.

I was fortunate this year that I was already transferring (direct deposit) my income into the country to meet the 40k baht income for my extension based upon marriage. I think they may of been surprised when they saw my bank book had over 2 years of transfer well above 40k baht.

[lamyai3]

23 hours ago, UKresonant said:

So are these initially plausible implementations, by design, or just lack of knowledge, with parallel things like the O-A insurance implementation, being similar examples...

Poor design and unclear instruction, combined with an entrenched hierarchical system where the low and mid level ranks quake in fear at the thought of questioning their superiors. 

[brokenbone]

On 12/24/2019 at 2:15 PM, Nakmuay887 said:

OP if you can get yourself to Mae Sot i'll help however I can. it's not an expensive bus ride here from CM or Lampang, if you need a place to sleep for a night or anything shoot me a PM. always willing to help someone down on their luck however I can. keep me posted please

that was a commendable act of kindness