Will Thai Health Insurance be mandated for O Visas and Extensions

[UKresonant]

13 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Whether the will require this insurance or not is at present mere speculation and scare mongering. Nobody knows, so why did the OP post?

 

IF it happens, (and I think it will), the problem is the requirement to use ONLY local approved Thai insurance companies, which charge too much for very limited cover. If they are going to make health insurance mandatory it is surely illegal to try and force us to use a particular insurance company. We ought to be able to use one of our own choosing as far better coverage is available elsewhere for less cost.

 

Our embassies ought to have complained about this already as it has been applied to the OA visa, but as usual they do nothing for us.

Waste of time I would think with the Embassies, if they make a complaint here I would think it will fall on deaf ears, they will likely not want to change it, having a next to useless scheme (for the customer) introduced and reviewing quickly out of embarrassment would be more like the western way of thinking.  

 

However if people are concerned that it is misleading, and/ or perhaps in some scenarios illegal, there are plenty of organisations and regulators in home country where the Visa's are mainly issued, who may take an interest if the detail is explained / complained about by enough numbers to get it over their action threshold?  The mostly implausible foreign insurance certificate may have been a hedge against such complaints, but the situation could be looked on as diverting trade from the domestic insurance market? (not much point of just grumbling on here)

[DrJack54]

Bit off topic but a question.

If someone had this rubbish Thai proposed insurance, would it cover you if outside of Thailand. Reason I ask is some people (me) spend lot of time outside los. Sometimes just week or 2 travel to various places. Vietnam, Japan etc.

[Langsuan Man]

20 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Bit off topic but a question.

If someone had this rubbish Thai proposed insurance, would it cover you if outside of Thailand. Reason I ask is some people (me) spend lot of time outside los. Sometimes just week or 2 travel to various places. Vietnam, Japan etc.

It might cover you but will the facility you need accept it

 

You live here so you should know better;  would you trust a Thai insurance company ?

[Thaidream]

On 1/3/2020 at 8:58 AM, Peter Denis said:

understand what you are saying, but 'fleecing us' was for sure not the sole reason for enforcing health-insurance on post Oct 31 issued OA Visas. 

I agree with drJack54 (and several other TVF members) that the implementation went horribly wrong, and that it was never the intention to impose health-insurance on extensions of stay for OA Visas dating from yesteryear.

It's now 2 months it was imposed, and for sure more difficult with every passing day to turn back the clock without horrible loss-of-face for IO.  So, most probably, they will leave it this way (meaning health-insurance required for extensions of ALL OA Visas for reason of retirement), but imo they will NOT embark on a further March of Fully to enforce it also on O - retirement Visas.

Agree- However, easy to save face-  Immigration Head sends internal memo indicating that anyone on O-A prior to 31 October 2019 is grandfathered.  Anyone who questions- are simply told that was the initial intention- all along- too bad you didn't understand it.

[lamyai3]

On 1/3/2020 at 12:42 PM, DrJack54 said:

Bit off topic but a question.

If someone had this rubbish Thai proposed insurance, would it cover you if outside of Thailand. Reason I ask is some people (me) spend lot of time outside los. Sometimes just week or 2 travel to various places. Vietnam, Japan etc.

These are from the T&C's from Pacific Cross - worldwide cover is provided subject to being resident at least six months of the year in Thailand, but making a successful claim might be a different matter. Japan is one of the countries mentioned where a claim looks like it could be tricky. 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by lamyai3

[DrJack54]

29 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

These are from the T&C's from Pacific Cross - worldwide cover is provided subject to being resident at least six months of the year in Thailand, but making a successful claim might be a different matter. Japan is one of the countries mentioned where a claim looks like it could be tricky. 

 

Thanks for taking the effort with good advice.

I read a lot about "Thai resident". Yes certainly here for longer than 180days/yr. 

Also realize that where I'm from (AU) has requirements to be regarded as resident. I still do all my taxes in au along with homes etc and Medicare card. Realize it's not that simple

Since I travel so much I choose to self insure.

This detailed boring story is not really about me, it's more than any compulsory rubbish Thai health insurance would be zero value.

[AussieBob18]

SUMMARY OF OUTCOME:  Health Insurance will be made mandatory for all long term Visa/Extensions:

Yes = 39

No = 16

Dont care/know - Leaving/Left : 20

 

A previous Poll by Jingthing offering a lot of options (summarised results):

Policy will bedropped: 31

Apply to O-A only: 97

Increased to more than just O-A : 176

 

A majority of TV Expats clearly believe that the policy is going to be extended.

Most view Health Insurance as warranted - but view the Thai policy and how it was implemented as wrong, and that the selected Thai policies are inadequate. No one supports 40K Outpatient coverage.

There is clearly no method for Expats in Thailand to raise their concerns with the Thai Govt.

 

IMO every single American, British and Australian Expat should write a letter complaining about the situation and their lack of support from the Embassy in Thailand - to the appropropriate Minister/Head in their home country (send a copy to the Embassies in Thailand).  All 3 Embassies have 'negotiated' with the Thai Government about us and as a result they have unilaterally cancelled the provision of the 'Income Letters or Stat Decs' to their Expats.  Not one Expat has been found guilty of lying or falseifying their letters/stat decs, and yet the Embassies have decided to stop providing them.  In Australia the signing of a Stat Dec by the appropriate authority cannot be denied, unless that authrority has clear evidence or concern that the statement being made is false.  I assume the same applies in USA and UK.

 

All 3 Embassies have supported the introduction of the mandatory Health Insurance and have made no attempt to discuss with the Thai Government the problems they are causing their Expat Citiens in Thailand.  All 3 Embassies are being derelict in their duty and have not made any attempt to seek feedback from or consultations with their Expats in Thailand (their citizens that they claim to represent) - but they have been doing that with the Thailand Government.  I worked with Federal Govt in Aust for over 25 years - a written complaint is something they cannot ignore (they must file and respond) - and hundreds of them will cause them to review things. 

 

Expats in Thailand are entitled to be supported and represented by their Embassy when the Government implements unfair Laws that negatively affect their lives.  The 3 Embassies are clearly talking with the Thai Govt and in cancelling all income letters/stat decs they have opened themselves o being uestioned.  The Embassies are not doing their job and the only way to make Government employees do what they do not want to do is to complain to their bosses/media.  Complaint is the only way to bring this to the attention of those in Govt that can do something about it.  I note that Shirely has written to the US Embassy and has received a response - I suggest that 100s of such letters will force them to do something and will stop them sweeping the matter under their very large and thick carpet.  

 

 

Thanks for responding everyone - I thought there was a lot of concern.  IMO we all need to get those that 'represent' us to hear that and to do something about it.  Expats have no 'channel' with the Thai Govt, but as clearly shown with the Embassies cancelling the letters for Expats, the Embassies are doing that and have a channel - we need to force them to use that channel for our benefit. 

 

[dallen52]

Just reading this article and I did a base enquiry as to Non O insurance. 

I'm currently non O with retirement extension and 67.

AXA came back with entry level price of 90,000 baht. 

Same 400k / 40k inpatient/outpatient limit.

 

The large companies are quoting over 300k plus for the usual health insurance policies. 

 

It's a far cry from the 30 baht a day thai citizen type coverage. 

 

I would be more than happy to see a government regulated schedule that would give affordable care at around 50 to 100 baht a day. (Enforce for all tourists/retirees)

 

 

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

SUMMARY OF OUTCOME:  Health Insurance will be made mandatory for all long term Visa/Extensions:

Yes = 39

No = 16

Dont care/know - Leaving/Left : 20

 

A previous Poll by Jingthing offering a lot of options (summarised results):

Policy will bedropped: 31

Apply to O-A only: 97

Increased to more than just O-A : 176

 

A majority of TV Expats clearly believe that the policy is going to be extended.

Most view Health Insurance as warranted - but view the Thai policy and how it was implemented as wrong, and that the selected Thai policies are inadequate. No one supports 40K Outpatient coverage.

There is clearly no method for Expats in Thailand to raise their concerns with the Thai Govt.

 

IMO every single American, British and Australian Expat should write a letter complaining about the situation and their lack of support from the Embassy in Thailand - to the appropropriate Minister/Head in their home country (send a copy to the Embassies in Thailand).  All 3 Embassies have 'negotiated' with the Thai Government about us and as a result they have unilaterally cancelled the provision of the 'Income Letters or Stat Decs' to their Expats.  Not one Expat has been found guilty of lying or falseifying their letters/stat decs, and yet the Embassies have decided to stop providing them.  In Australia the signing of a Stat Dec by the appropriate authority cannot be denied, unless that authrority has clear evidence or concern that the statement being made is false.  I assume the same applies in USA and UK.

 

All 3 Embassies have supported the introduction of the mandatory Health Insurance and have made no attempt to discuss with the Thai Government the problems they are causing their Expat Citiens in Thailand.  All 3 Embassies are being derelict in their duty and have not made any attempt to seek feedback from or consultations with their Expats in Thailand (their citizens that they claim to represent) - but they have been doing that with the Thailand Government.  I worked with Federal Govt in Aust for over 25 years - a written complaint is something they cannot ignore (they must file and respond) - and hundreds of them will cause them to review things. 

 

Expats in Thailand are entitled to be supported and represented by their Embassy when the Government implements unfair Laws that negatively affect their lives.  The 3 Embassies are clearly talking with the Thai Govt and in cancelling all income letters/stat decs they have opened themselves o being uestioned.  The Embassies are not doing their job and the only way to make Government employees do what they do not want to do is to complain to their bosses/media.  Complaint is the only way to bring this to the attention of those in Govt that can do something about it.  I note that Shirely has written to the US Embassy and has received a response - I suggest that 100s of such letters will force them to do something and will stop them sweeping the matter under their very large and thick carpet.  

 

 

Thanks for responding everyone - I thought there was a lot of concern.  IMO we all need to get those that 'represent' us to hear that and to do something about it.  Expats have no 'channel' with the Thai Govt, but as clearly shown with the Embassies cancelling the letters for Expats, the Embassies are doing that and have a channel - we need to force them to use that channel for our benefit. 

 

" A majority of TV Expats clearly believe that the policy is going to be extended. "

I would say a majority of TV Expats clearly couldn't be bothered to vote. Your conclusion is not validated by the poll.

[Thaidream]

20 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Thanks for responding everyone - I thought there was a lot of concern.  IMO we all need to get those that 'represent' us to hear that and to do something about it.  Expats have no 'channel' with the Thai Govt, but as clearly shown with the Embassies cancelling the letters for Expats, the Embassies are doing that and have a channel - we need to force them to use that channel for our benefit. 

It is absoltely essential that expats in Thailand write letters to their Embassies and Consulates as that is our only venue to air grievances and recommendations.

 

We have no lobbying group in Thailand like we have in our birth countries-  there is no other representation except via our Embassies.

 

Like Sheryl- I already have written to the US Embassy and they replied indicating they are in discussion with the Thai Government over the insurance issue.

 

The basic points I made are as follows:

 

A.  If there is mandatory insurance- there has to be a way to obtain it. However, applicants are being denied due to age and pre exisrting conditions.  since they cannot obtain it- the requirement must then be waived.

 

B  Almost every Constitution in the World (including Thailand) recognizes the concept of 'ex post facto'- meaning a law and regulation cannot be applied to those prior to the laws implementation/

 

It is only fair and legal that anyone who has an O-A Visa or extension be 'grandfathered' and allowed to continue their extensions under the laws/requirements that were in existence at the time of their original O-A Visa.  

 

This concept and legal axiom has been used before by Thai Immigration in that when the income levels for extnesions was raised to 800K; those on unbroken extensions were allowed to continue to this day to use the income levels from their original Visa (200K).

 

C.  The whole insurance plan is completely unfair as it excludes those with current insurance; refuses to allow purchases of foreign insurance and forces expats to purchase only those policies by a select number of Thai Companies.

 

These companies are only using a pool of people (expats only) aged 50 and up causing  hufe permiums for little coverage.  Medical insurance needs to be offered using a pool of 1 -100 and expats integrated into  Thai Insurance policies available to anyone.

 

As an alternate- the Thai Government needs to allow expats to buy into the Thai Government Social Security System (Medical Only) at a fiar and equitable rate.

 

The initial step now must be grandfathering for anyone on an O-A Visa/extension prior to 31 October 2019-  Many of these expats came to Thailand to retire under the conditions that were in place prior to this change in policy.  It is unfair. unjost and just plain wrong to cause these people  to possibly have to tear up their lives.

 

As Aussie Bob 18 has indicated- there is strenght in numbers.  If we, as expats, do not stand up for ourselves and at least indicate our displeasure- no one is going to do it.

[OJAS]

On 12/29/2019 at 7:21 AM, Caldera said:

Although common sense is in short supply in the officialdom, my prediction is that this was merely the first step and that they will extend the requirement to others. Now that they've put a framework in place for checking if someone has insurance, that will be fairly easy.

To extend the insurance requirement to ALL non-immigrants who are aged 50 or over (as per the OA visa requirement) and eligible for annual extensions for whatever reason (i.e. not just retirement) and regardless of the type of the visa which they originally used to enter Thailand would, as I see it, involve a significant rewrite of Police Order 327/2557. In particular, no fewer than 40 of the stated "Reasons Of Necessity" would, by my reckoning, need detailed tweaking.

 

We can therefore but hope that the "where there is a will there is a way" belief is similarly in short supply in Thai officialdom!

Edited January 8, 2020 by OJAS

[Langsuan Man]

Why does anyone here think that their respective Embassies give a damn about "ex pats"  the operative word is EX

 

You might be able to make an argument for a trade imbalance , since no foreign insurance is approved, but just so you can remain in Thailand;  why should they care ?

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, OJAS said:

We can therefore but hope that the "where there is a will there is a way" belief is similarly in short supply in Thai officialdom!

I wonder each year if my avenue will be removed as I see changes in the Retirement Extension requirements... loss of Embassy letters, extending the monetary requirements, imposing insurance obligations on some! I hope the Elite will still be around when they eventually nail my feet to the ground, or will I have to do the dreaded penance, and marry her! ????