Will Thai Health Insurance be mandated for O Visas and Extensions

[DennisE]

OP, have you considered maybe taking up golf ????️‍♀️ or fishing ????? ????

[Bangkok Barry]

14 hours ago, ballpoint said:

The way I understand it, as explained to me by an immigration agent, the 400,000 baht you need to keep in the bank under the terms for a Non-O retirement extension serves the same purpose as the 400,000 baht inpatient insurance required for the OA.  It's no coincidence that the (meagre, in my opinion) figure is the same in each case.  Anyone under a Non-O extension who doesn't have medical insurance, and can't cover the cost of treatment, would have the 400,000 baht to fall back on - either for treatment here or to be used for evacuation, and then would be unable to get a new extension, which is really what they want.  No doubt I'll be attacked for saying this, but I agree with them.  Anyone here long term who is unable to cover the costs of emergency medical treatment - either by insurance or savings, should really be returning to their own country.

 

 

Not everyone with a long-term visa keeps 400,000 in the bank. Many people get their visa in Savannakhet or to a lesser extent in HCMC with no financial requirement at all. It might be required for an O-A visa, but the OP has asked about O visas. So no, they might not have the 400,000 to fall back on.
 

[Bangkok Barry]

As a few others above have suggested, to extend the insurance requirement to the considerable number of O visa holders, which from my observations I would suggest are largely elderly men with a Thai family, would cause massive hardship. Many would be unable to get insurance due to age and would have to exit Thailand and leave their family behind to fend for themselves. Is that what the government wants? Do they even care? I don't know. But those same folk who cannot get insurance but are sensible will have money available (self-insurance) for any medical needs. That, in my mind, is better than paying huge insurance fees each year which is wasted if not needed to be drawn upon. Money thrown away, basically.

[HHTel]

I don't think it will apply to Non-O visas anytime soon.  The requirements for an O-A and an O visa are very different.

Firstly, you have to be over 50 and have the required funds to get an O-A visa which allows you to stay for 1 year.

 

The eligibility for an O visa are quite different:

 

This from the Thai Embassy:

 

Quote

NON-IMMIGRANT VISA Category "O" (Other)

This type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom to perform other activities as follows:

                      (1) to perform duty or mission in the family of an alien who enters to stay temporarily in Thailand in accordance with Section 34 (1) (2) (5) (6) (7) (10) (11) (12) (13) and (14) of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) as the parents, spouse or child under patronage or being a part of the household of the said person or being a private servant under Section 15 (7)

                      (2) to provide or receive support from the person whose nationality is Thai or the alien who has been granted and has taken up permanent residence in Thailand as the parents, spouse or child under patronage and being a part of the household of the said person

                      (3) to perform duties for the state enterprise or social welfare organizations

                      (4) to stay in Thailand after retirement for the elderly

                      (5) A person who used to be a Thai who would like to visit relatives or to return to live in Thailand

                      (6) to receive medical treatment for more than 60 days

                      (7) to be a sport trainer as required by the Thai Government

                      (8) to be a contestant or a witness for the judicial process

To require medical insurance for an O visa would affect all those categories above which makes it a non-starter.

However, extensions based on retirement (which is at the discretion of immigration) would be the starting point to require medical insurance.  So not for an O visa, but could be required for extensions if that is based on retirement.

 

[DennisE]

I really have to ask what’s the point of this topic? ???? I mean seriously what a waste of time. This is from the attorneys and it already quashed all these fake rumors. This tells you everything you’ll need to know for a long time just ignore this kind of stuff ????. 

 

 

 

[DennisE]

7 minutes ago, HHTel said:

I don't think it will apply to Non-O visas anytime soon.  The requirements for an O-A and an O visa are very different.

Firstly, you have to be over 50 and have the required funds to get an O-A visa which allows you to stay for 1 year.

 

The eligibility for an O visa are quite different:

 

This from the Thai Embassy:

 

To require medical insurance for an O visa would affect all those categories above which makes it a non-starter.

However, extensions based on retirement (which is at the discretion of immigration) would be the starting point to require medical insurance.  So not for an O visa, but could be required for extensions if that is based on retirement.

 

Obviously. The OP knows that. But the last thing you said they don’t even have the capability ????. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by DennisE

[sfokevin]

11 minutes ago, DennisE said:

OP, have you considered maybe taking up golf ????️‍♀️ or fishing ????? ????

Sadly healthy outdoor activities are not possible for some of us right now...

 

[DennisE]

This is one of those topics that you normally should just kind of ignore there’s no logic or point to it except for one thing spreading doubt and totally unnecessary fear but the Issan Lawyers have pretty much already quashed these. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by DennisE

[wtfracing]

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

If it does come about it will be the final straw for many people,

the Immigration dept,keeps making changes,NONE of them good,

just last week Chiang Mai immigration introduced the need to show

a 6 month statement, they already see your bank book, all pages

copied,and bank letter.

regards worgeordie 

And there in lays the problem still, it will still get back to what each individual immigration office or officer decides on the day as to what they want to see or implement.

[worrab]

I'll just throw this out and see the reaction.

 

I do not think that they will extend this health insurance to Non-O visa holders who then remain here with extensions based on either retirement or marriage. Why? Because we are here long term and therefore to skip hospital bills is almost an impossibility. How many expats on this system have been able to get away with not paying? I'll bet the figures are very very low.

The Thais want to plug the supposed holes with this insurance whereby people are able to do a runner! And that is another story.

 

 

[Old Croc]

5 minutes ago, worrab said:

I'll just throw this out and see the reaction.

 

I do not think that they will extend this health insurance to Non-O visa holders who then remain here with extensions based on either retirement or marriage. Why? Because we are here long term and therefore to skip hospital bills is almost an impossibility. How many expats on this system have been able to get away with not paying? I'll bet the figures are very very low.

The Thais want to plug the supposed holes with this insurance whereby people are able to do a runner! And that is another story.

 

 

The same logic applies to O-As.

Any coherent thinker should be able to work out that most hospital debt by foreigners emanate from short term tourists who fall off their bikes or similar.  This seems to be something else.

Incidentally this was approved by cabinet and seemingly was put forward by the Health Service Support Department, not Immigration.

[Thingamabob]

Indications are that annual extensions to an O category visa based on retirement, supported by 800k baht on permanent bank deposit, will continue to be granted without any insurance requirement.

[mokwit]

For me, more than the possibility of paying for insurance that might not even pay out, it is the need to synchronise insurance dates and visa dates that is bugging me.

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

As a few others above have suggested, to extend the insurance requirement to the considerable number of O visa holders, which from my observations I would suggest are largely elderly men with a Thai family, would cause massive hardship. Many would be unable to get insurance due to age and would have to exit Thailand and leave their family behind to fend for themselves. Is that what the government wants? Do they even care? I don't know. But those same folk who cannot get insurance but are sensible will have money available (self-insurance) for any medical needs. That, in my mind, is better than paying huge insurance fees each year which is wasted if not needed to be drawn upon. Money thrown away, basically.

If a requirement is changed and made mandatory there are two basic principles that come into play

 

1.  There has to be a way to meet a mandatory requirement such as insurance.  At the present- if one has pre existing conditions and/or over a certain age (70-75) one  is normally denied coverage. In essence, there is no way to meet a mandaotry requirement. At present, IOs are telling people to get an O Visa which skirts the requirement.

 

2. In almost every country in the World (including Thailand) the concept of law makes it illegal to require a law; change of policy etc be applied  ex post facto- to people who never had the requirement imposed in the past.   There is precedent in Thailand for  this as in the past changes  on income requirements have never been placed on people already in the system and the prior requirements remain in force.

 

I personally believe if the issue of grandfathering is not applied to  any current or future changes- a lawsuit filed in the Administrative Thai Court could be won but it would be lengthy and expensive.  

 

More likely-  the powers that be will close the O-A to O gap by not allowing a retired applicant to use the O  which forces everyone in this category into an O-A.

 

As one poster indicated to save face they may not enforce the insurance requirement on O-A holders prior to 31 Oct 2019.  The result will end the current chaos but at the end very few people will choose Thailand as a retirement choice.  The fair' equitable' moral solution is to announce  grandfathering and they can save face by saying that's what we meant all along.  

 

Unless a fair and equitable solution is worked out- nothing will change for the hospitals who claim they are losing money.  The real truth is they are losing money, because they are not properly funded and this has nothing to do with foreigners.  There are large numbers of poor Thais who use the 30 Baht scheme. 

 

If every long stay foreigner had and used medical insurance- it would not change  the bottom line of any hospital losing money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Peter Denis]

21 minutes ago, mokwit said:

For me, more than the possibility of paying for insurance that might not even pay out, it is the need to synchronise insurance dates and visa dates that is bugging me.

A Bug-Free solution ???? > Switching from your OA - retirement Visa extension to an O - retirement Visa is surprisingly easy. 

> NO bogus health-insurance required, and same conditions/requirements at extension as for your present OA Visa. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Peter Denis

[GeorgeCross]

 

1 hour ago, DennisE said:

LMAO ???? what’s the point of this topic? This is not even currently under consideration by the Thai government at all, and even if it was when ever they start considering passing a new bill into law or an amendment to the immigration act that usually takes them a very long time as it did when they first made it mandatory for new NON OA visas.

 

yes keep laughing..

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

yes keep laughing..

I think that part of the cabinet resolution may of been shelved already.

They came out with charging a fee on entry to the country to fund medical care but it was shot down.

[DennisE]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think that part of the cabinet resolution may of been shelved already.

They came out with charging a fee on entry to the country to fund medical care but it was shot down.

Yeah I recall hearing that as well thank you. 

[phitsanulokjohn]

3 hours ago, Chicken George said:

Yes. It will happen. I just wish we could pay  monthly to be included in the Thai health system. 

I wholeheartedly agree,but to prevent the system being abused,should be used for serious or emergency situations only.The government should also give considerations to citizens of countries that offer Thai citizens free healthcare,such as the Uk's Nhs system.

[DennisE]

18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think that part of the cabinet resolution may of been shelved already.

They came out with charging a fee on entry to the country to fund medical care but it was shot down.

In fact it was you who told me that before thanks. So anyway very good thanks Joe. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by DennisE

[EricTh]

3 hours ago, MJKT2014 said:

That's always been the case, O-A's can keep their money in home country banks providing they go home every 1-2 years to get another O-A. 

No wonder immigration requires O-A group to have medical insurance.

 

For O visa, we need to put at least 400k in a bank in Thailand or do a monthly transfer every month. That in itself is sort of 'insurance' against any unforeseen circumstances.

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

Indications are that annual extensions to an O category visa based on retirement, supported by 800k baht on permanent bank deposit, will continue to be granted without any insurance requirement.

So I will ask this question.  If I am on an extension of stay for my O-A and I have to show the same financials as you on a "O" extension when I go to immigration here, tell me why the O-A holders are being forced into the insurance scheme and "O" extension of stay holders are not, therein lies an inequity...…….

Edited December 28, 2019 by ThailandRyan

[Krataiboy]

I do wish ThaiVisa Forum posters would stop their endless speculation over whether O Visa holders will eventually be subject to the same mandatory insurance regulations now enforced for O-A visa holders.

 

It is a pointless exercise in collective masochism which can only heighten the concerns among thousands of retirees in the firing line.

 

Even worse, because the Thai authorities monitor all social media, such public mass second-guessing of Immigration policy might even lead to them adopting the very measure we would all wish to avoid. Never plant mercenary ideas into official heads which might not already have them in mind.

 

If plans to widen the insurance net are in the pipeline, you can bet those most affected will be the last to know.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Krataiboy

[PlastikbinLina]

The best way to get something started is begin a rumour. For example the AEON Credit Co did not charge a fee for withdrawal of overseas funds from its ATMs but persistent questions to the company and on  line here whether ithere was a 150 baht fee turned it in to reality.

Fortunately Transferwise came along to save the day and money for many of us.

Maybe the questioner here is an insurance rep pushing his company's interest to make it happen? If you are please go away and leave us in peace.

 

[flexomike]

1 hour ago, worrab said:

I'll just throw this out and see the reaction.

 

I do not think that they will extend this health insurance to Non-O visa holders who then remain here with extensions based on either retirement or marriage. Why? Because we are here long term and therefore to skip hospital bills is almost an impossibility. How many expats on this system have been able to get away with not paying? I'll bet the figures are very very low.

The Thais want to plug the supposed holes with this insurance whereby people are able to do a runner! And that is another story.

 

 

If you do an extension of an OA you are in the same boat, why should someone who has been here long term doing extensions with an OA be treated any differently than someone with an O

[ThailandRyan]

9 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

I do wish ThaiVisa Forum posters would stop their endless speculation over whether O Visa holders will eventually be subject to the same mandatory insurance regulations now enforced for O-A visa holders.

 

It amounts to a pointless exercise in collective massochism guaranteed to heighten existing concerns among retirees who would be affected.

 

Even worse, because the Thai authorities monitor all social media, such public mass second-guessing of Immigration policy could lead to them adopting the very measure we would all wish to avoid. Why put mercenary thoughts into official heads who have not already had them?

 

If plans to widen the insurance net are in the pipeline, you can be those directly in the firing line will be the last to know.

Krataiboy, I was told by the Thai Consulate Los Angeles this past November that eventually the insurance will be rolled out for all visa applications for all categories.  Now whether or not this rolls down to all including those on extensions of stay is what I am sure is being debated here.  Since I entered on an O-A issued prior to October 31, I did not need to show it, and I have a US life time policy due to a state pension. However, I still have a policy here in Thailand as, I always have to cover the initial visit, and then file with my US health company to pick up the remainder.  Of course I am only 55, and the cost is minimal to me, as I pay nothing in the US for that heath policy.

Edited December 28, 2019 by ThailandRyan

[flexomike]

10 minutes ago, EricTh said:

No wonder immigration requires O-A group to have medical insurance.

 

For O visa, we need to put at least 400k in a bank in Thailand or do a monthly transfer every month. That in itself is sort of 'insurance' against any unforeseen circumstances.

 

 

You have to understand that everyone doing an extension of an OA visa also has the same money requirments as someone on an O extension

[EricTh]

9 minutes ago, flexomike said:

You have to understand that everyone doing an extension of an OA visa also has the same money requirments as someone on an O extension

But you don't need to put that amount of money into Thai banks.

 

Furthermore, there is more opportunities to forge foreign financial statements than in Thailand.

 

After all, immigration won't be able to verify those foreign bank statements unlike the standard Thai bank letters here.

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by EricTh

[The Theory]

IMO Non-O 800,000 method already is on insurance plan. 
"400,000 in bank all year long" (equal to min. Insurance policy that is 400,000) Only 400,000 available in limited time limit. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by The Theory

[tonray]

8 minutes ago, EricTh said:

But you don't need to put that amount of money into Thai banks.

Absolutely incorrect. Extensions of an original OA visa have exactly the same financial requirements in Thai banks

Edited December 28, 2019 by tonray