2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't have the numbers. But if i.e. 99% of all free trade agreements needed more than two years to finish them. What gives you and others the idea this one will be finished in 1 year? It's impossible! And it makes a lot of sense to accept reality. But it seems lots of UK voters don't want to see reality. Yeah, please continue to dream about the unicorns. But maybe, just maybe, keep the possibility open that they don't exist.

 

So you refer to statistics but don't have then numbers! Classic. Maybe you don't even bother asking 100 other people down the bar! Just your own opinion is enough?

 

I said 1 year is a very tall order. But you need a stretching target. Or they'll still be talking drivel about what color text and font size to use for the treaties in 12 months! They need to focus and show progress. 

 

It seems a lot of people don't want to see reality, and the excuses maybe suggest a mindset that plans to fail? 

 

If you want a serious discussion, stop making silly remarks about unicorns.

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

Well if Hungarians wish to leave they may ...as we are not undemocratic holding anyone against their wish ….E.U. is fully trained now after the British Brexit …. "the Brexit blueprint" can be used for all who wish to become next one  (BTW  I was always already finding the expansion became to big to quick )

Would that be the Mrs Mays blueprint or Boris Johnsons blueprint, for where I am at this very moment things seem to have taken an upward surge since Boris has took control of the ship.

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

So you refer to statistics but don't have then numbers! Classic. Maybe you don't even bother asking 100 other people down the bar! Just your own opinion is enough?

In all fairness to him, he does have two British friends that agree with him.????????

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Dream on!

 

Guess what,, any security council member can veto anything, in reality.

 

Russia - Crimea, Ukraine, Georgia

 

China - Uighurs, South China seas,

 

etc. etc.

 

None of the big boys care about what the UN says if they don't like it. Come on, an organization that has despotic tossers like Maduro on its HR committee - whole things a joke!

 

And a member of the Security Council is UK. That's right. The same as the country you're a citizen of, with your British nationality.

 

Yep - Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are not sovereign nations. The UK is.

But it will not be going before the security council.

Scotland, England Wales and Northern Ireland are not sovereign nations? Do you have any link to evidence supporting that assertion?

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So you refer to statistics but don't have then numbers! Classic. Maybe you don't even bother asking 100 other people down the bar! Just your own opinion is enough?

 

I said 1 year is a very tall order. But you need a stretching target. Or they'll still be talking drivel about what color text and font size to use for the treaties in 12 months! They need to focus and show progress. 

 

It seems a lot of people don't want to see reality, and the excuses maybe suggest a mindset that plans to fail? 

 

If you want a serious discussion, stop making silly remarks about unicorns.

The Canadian EU FTA took about 7 or 8 years from memory. Australia has been going at it with the EU for a similar amount of time with still no deal signed. 
 

 

9 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You might well get another referendum but Scotland would vote remain again unfortunately. 

 

55% of them voted for parties backing remaining in the UK only 3 weeks ago. Once we've left the EU even more will want to remain part of the UK as they know joining the EU as an Independent country will be very difficult. And if you succeed joining the EU you still wont be independent so what's the point?

 

The point? 

 

Well, then Leader Sturgeon, the leader of the Scottish National Socialist Party, could get her place in history, have numerous statues of herself erected, take center stage negotiating Scotland's leaving the UK, and become the "world leader' she dreams of, President or whatever title she prefers of Scotland. She can tour the world on state visits and blame others for all the <deleted> in Scotland she isn't bothered about addressing.

 

The SNP still want to introduce their "named persons" legislation for young people. Effectively providing a mechanism for state control of parent/children relationships. Wonder if the plan the Sturgeon Youth too?

 

Most Scots see through her and her cronies self interest. But disenchantment with the main political parties has seen a move towards them in elections. However, splitting the UK is different. There's always a certain section of Scots, who are totally racists towards anything English and sectarian. Unfortunately, as often the case, they tend to be more mouthy than there peers.

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

But it will not be going before the security council.

Scotland, England Wales and Northern Ireland are not sovereign nations? Do you have any link to evidence supporting that assertion?

 

The security council effectively rule any actions of the UN. The rest is just bla bla bla.

 

Link - read your passport!

8 minutes ago, samran said:

The Canadian EU FTA took about 7 or 8 years from memory. Australia has been going at it with the EU for a similar amount of time with still no deal signed. 
 

 

 

Not surprised with the Canadians!

 

But it shows just how important it is to have challenging stretch targets rather than allow bureaucrats to meander at will.

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

Would that be the Mrs Mays blueprint or Boris Johnsons blueprint, for where I am at this very moment things seem to have taken an upward surge since Boris has took control of the ship.

Both can be used as similar , only Boris put his lies over it , as no backstop anymore …(?) as he areed now (in Brussels but not admitting in U.K.) what E.U. suggested before ...Irish Sea checks....lol 5555

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Not surprised with the Canadians!

 

But it shows just how important it is to have challenging stretch targets rather than allow bureaucrats to meander at will.

As much as it may appeal to the engineer in you to have a ‘challenging me deadline, and how appealing this may sound to those who are still beating their chests from Boris’ recent win, the fact remains that the reason these thing are slow is there is usually a lot of ongoing background consultations with industry. 
 

These things take time for positions to be developed, presented and the for trade discussions to be digested and for recalibrations on positioning to happen.

 

Then add the political aspect. Which constituencies and industries will Boris throw under the bus so can get an outcome in other areas of trade. So the politicians will be working furiously to see that none of their interests are degraded for someone up the road. 
 

And I’m only talking about the British side. Lord help you if the Italian tomato farmers decide to hold up your discussions, like they have the Australians the past 12 months. And not amount if shouting ‘BUT WE ARE BRITISH’ is going to hurry that up. 

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

Both can be used as similar , only Boris put his lies over it , as no backstop anymore …(?) as he areed now (in Brussels but not admitting in U.K.) what E.U. suggested before ...Irish Sea checks....lol 5555

Maybe two similar songs, but two completely different singers, Boris has 10 octaves compared to Mays 1, whilst the EU are totally tone deaf.

25 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

But it will not be going before the security council.

Scotland, England Wales and Northern Ireland are not sovereign nations? Do you have any link to evidence supporting that assertion?

Already centuries the Scot's had Kings and Queens  different from England , fought some wars between each other …. and then saying they are not sovereign nations , because a treaty …… strange that E.U. treaty seems different handled ( not useful to the cause intended by U.K. , same double tongue standards ...over and over again ) ….. meeting 15 januari for first wake-up call for Boris ...

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Maybe two similar songs, but two completely different singers, Boris has 10 octaves compared to Mays 1, whilst the EU are totally tone deaf.

E.U. is happy with Boris for the reason the Bill get past thru the HOC. 

And now U.K. have a PM who can not hide after the excuse his hands are tied up by HOC as they pitied May for that ….No excuses anymore  for Boris he is the leader who can get hold responsible and can make decisions' ...whatever they are …. WTO rules may be for my personal choice , as it are very clear rules and no misinterpretations or British game play  possible , follow it or you are  out of WTO

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

Maybe two similar songs, but two completely different singers, Boris has 10 octaves compared to Mays 1, whilst the EU are totally tone deaf.

For the wrong tones the E.U. shall be still deaf ….Boris won election in U.K.   not in E.U.  that's the main point ...

1 minute ago, david555 said:

E.U. is happy with Boris for the reason the Bill get past thru the HOC. 

And now U.K. have a PM who can not hide after the excuse his hands are tied up by HOC as they pitied May for that ….No excuses anymore  for Boris he is the leader who can get hold responsible and can make decisions' ...whatever they are …. WTO rules may be for my personal choice , as it are very clear rules and no misinterpretations or British game play  possible , follow it or you are  out of WTO

All Boris is doing is following the instructions he was given by the electorate, you cannot ask anymore from him, that's how democracy works.

1 minute ago, vogie said:

All Boris is doing is following the instructions he was given by the electorate, you cannot ask anymore from him, that's how democracy works.

That's counting in full on your side ….. let's see if that can be settled with our democracy , that's the hot point … I don't think the E.U. go step of from alignment , freedom of peoples and the other mantras ….good luck in hoping "Boris the messiah"go open the North Sea ,as in the Bible tale ….5555

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

For the wrong tones the E.U. shall be still deaf ….Boris won election in U.K.   not in E.U.  that's the main point ...

The point is with Mrs May to some extent you had us over a barrel, I feel that this is no longer the case, and it is not about Boris winning the election in the UK, but how he won it. With a reduced majority it would have been tougher for Boris, but easier for the EU, you see how the two are inter-linked?

20 minutes ago, vogie said:

The point is with Mrs May to some extent you had us over a barrel, I feel that this is no longer the case, and it is not about Boris winning the election in the UK, but how he won it. With a reduced majority it would have been tougher for Boris, but easier for the EU, you see how the two are inter-linked?

Your point of view , not the E.U. one ,you don't understand we have now an adversary who is convinced to leave (with PM May the E.U. had some hopes  for a second referendum or revoke ..) but now the cards are clear and E.U. can go for it , no considerations for collateral damage to remainers as they lost …. now they can go ahead for a Brexit in full ...

 

It is same as your point from U.K. confronting E.U.

Ours is just same as yours now but coming to your U.K. side , like mirroring yourself , that's different as with Pm. May before 

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

That's counting in full on your side ….. let's see if that can be settled with our democracy , that's the hot point … I don't think the E.U. go step of from alignment , freedom of peoples and the other mantras ….good luck in hoping "Boris the messiah"go open the North Sea ,as in the Bible tale ….5555

As my dear ol granny used to say, "we'll have to suck it and see," no fancifull predictions from me I'm afraid.

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Whats the problem?

Johnson has an "oven ready deal" so there should be no need for any extension.

So the UK is ready, more or less, but the EU is the party that needs more time. They have had over 3 years under Teresa May and have done little or nothing, and now they have a year to prepare for Brexit.

 

The negotiators could always work an 8 working hour day and a 5 day week. They could even work overtime if they need to.

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

Your point of view , not the E.U. one ,you don't understand we have now an adversary who is convinced to leave (with PM May the E.U. had some hopes  for a second referendum or revoke ..) but now the cards are clear and E.U. can go for it , no considerations for collateral damage to remainers as they lost …. now they can go ahead for a Brexit in full ...

 

It is same as your point from U.K. confronting E.U.

Ours is just same as yours now but coming to your U.K. same , like mirroring yourself , that's different as with Pm. May 

I do not class ourselves as "adversaries" more of two trading nations wishing to come to some sort of an agreement, I think using words like adversary would be counter productive in any of our future talks together. However should the EU wish to cut their nose off to spite their face, as the saying goes 'up to them'.

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

As my dear ol granny used to say, "we'll have to suck it and see," no fancifull predictions from me I'm afraid.

A very sensible Granny you have ….. are you family ? ( or adopted ..? just joking 555 !!)

First signs after 15 January (some important decisions E.U. side …), and then 1 February 

 

So for the moment let 's just wat and see....

I was just reacting on the euphoria from the G.E. from which you brexiteers awaiting miracles , put out shoes and socks and by preference step on wet floor to realise you are on ground not floating anymore 5555

 

Cheers & a Happy new year to all , and wishing you a very fruitful WTO in 2020

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

That's the spirit Vogie mate. Fog in the channel. Europe cut off.

Never mind what world economists say. 

What did the world economists say about the 2008 banking crash, or how after the referendum the UK economy will crash, millions of people will be jobless and homeless and thousands of businesses will fold to send the UK into bankruptcy?

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So the UK is ready, more or less, but the EU is the party that needs more time. They have had over 3 years under Teresa May and have done little or nothing, and now they have a year to prepare for Brexit.

 

The negotiators could always work an 8 working hour day and a 5 day week. They could even work overtime if they need to.

"EU is the party that needs more time."

 

Only if the U.K. wish all that Christmas list , not that we need time..., as from beginning they let understand all is complicated and need long time  , that is what they mean , not all that can be negotiated in 11 months , as you compare it with other country's negotiating time ….

 

Just see clear in Boris , he opted for  a E.U. surrender or... to his " no deal " (JRM favorite ), for me  …. you can have the WTO option , WTO rules are clear and no negotiation the rules are there and if not follow  ...you are all alone on that big blue Earth 

1 hour ago, samran said:

Security issues will be taken care at security forums and these things are never discussed in the same context as trade. 
 

I never said that the UK wasn’t important, but it comes down to relative importance to each other as well as leverage each party can extract. The numbers bear it out that the even if the UK is punching above its weight, it is still 8 weight classes below its competitor. 

The bottom line is that the EU could probably replace UK trade over time but they are going to have to find £9b a year from other member states just to stand still. Other than Germany and France, who is going to pick up the tab ?

Security will be discussed as part of an ongoing agreement. The UK contributes around 16% of the EU budget, again who is going to cover the shortfall?

 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/uk–eu-defence-and-security-cooperation

 

55 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So the UK is ready, more or less, but the EU is the party that needs more time. //

Just not true again. We both follow the planning established before. Current step is to wait for UK to ratify the withdrawal agreement.

Then only will come negotiations, and their durations will depends of which subjects/sectors can be postpone to after 2020, and of how far from EU rules the UK want to be able to go...

Recent declarations of UK's PM are not really compatible with a less than 1 year duration. 

8 hours ago, candide said:

So do you mean that, in case UK decides to drop those regulations, they would not be replaced by similar UK regulations, i.e. to ensure consumer prorection  safety, heakth, etc... as most EU standards deal with. Would there really be a noticeable effect?

I am not referring to the worker/consumer protection and HSE aspect. I am referring to the financial cost for small businesses that have to comply with EU regulations, even of they do not export to the EU.

On 12/27/2019 at 8:26 PM, samran said:

and he knows better than those unelected bureaucrats at the coal face

one  look  at  Diane  Abbot  confirms that.

20 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

The bottom line is that the EU could probably replace UK trade over time but they are going to have to find £9b a year from other member states just to stand still. Other than Germany and France, who is going to pick up the tab ?

Probably not. What as been suggested until now is a very small general increase of contributions, but mainly lower spending and subventions.

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Some people think if they know i.e. 100 people and all those 100 people think similar then that must be true and it is for them the confirmation that everybody must think similar. NO!

 

If you want to know how people from all regions and all backgrounds and all social situations think then it's a good idea to also look at statistics. And if i.e. almost all experts are sure that it's impossible to make a comprehensive deal within one year then it makes sense to listen to those experts - even if you don't know any of those experts in person and even if all your buddies in the pub are sure it all can be done within one year.

 

P.S.: Better forget about that idea with the academic paper...

After your Boris prediction any credibility you may have had has gone. Stick you you and your two mates you all know best.

again as you are not British, you do not understand the British people and that is why all your remarks seem to be proven incorrect.

 

You and statistics. Them same statisticians who told us all, the UK wouldn't vote to leave the EU and Boris Johnson would be the shortest serving prime Minister in British history. Do you see a pattern?

 

P.S. Better forget commenting when you are consistently proven to be wrong...