unpaid credit cards

[Jinjo14]

A friend of mine (faring) left Thailand after a few years working here with 3 Thai credit cards (limit of around 120k each).   For a few months he continued to pay the debt off by sending money from overseas to his Thai accounts - however he was getting rimmed on interest and transfer charges and after emailing each bank to find a solution and not getting a reply he stopped payments.  This was over 3 years ago.

 

He wants to return to Thailand for a holiday to visit friends and is worried that he might have a court order against him and immigration would detain him on arrival - obviously he didn't leave a forwarding address so there's no way he would know if he received anything by snail mail.   

 

I was stopped once by immigration for owing the Thailand TAX office a measly 1500 baht (mistake on my tax return) and was scared <deleted>less I would be detained so I can understand him being worried about half a million baht!!! 

 

Is there anyway he can check with a lawyer that he will be fine to return to Thailand for a visit?

 

 

[Pilotman]

"rimmed by interest and transfer charges", that is hardly the truth of it.   It was a debt he should have honoured.  I bet he was quick enough to spend money that wasn't his. Hopefully, if he is stupid enough to come back, he will be nabbed and forced to pay, or risk jail.  

[Ventenio]

almost nobody forgets about someone who owes them money.  He knows he went into default on purpose, but the allure of Thailand is getting him to risk jail and perhaps now he will owe 11 billion baht after interest.  Is it worth it to him?  I think cheaper to fly his friend to Laos and meet them there.  He is now playing with fire twice.  Maybe he wants to get caught.  

 

I'm not sure I would even trust a lawyer on this one, but it's a good start and nobody on this forum is a Thai lawyer so good luck.  I would just call the credit card companies or someone log-in and check with them first.  i'm sure he now owes a lot more.  

[ezzra]

There are two ways he can go about it, try to enter Thailand and hope for the best and keep low profile while here, or try to contact the issuing banks, either by himself or someone else on his behalf, preferably a Thai national,  and see what can be done with the debts without mentioning that he's planning to travel to Thailand and see what can be done to remedy the problems...

[Pib]

He's got money to spend on a holiday back to Thailand but no money to pay his Thai credit card debts?  Or is he putting the trip on new credit cards he doesn't plan to pay off either?  He needs to stay home...save up some money...and pay off his credit cards.

[Delight]

 I have a credit card with Bangkok bank

My credit limit is identical to monies that I put into  fixed account with them

So no danger for them.

I have it for convenience.

 

It seems that the banks are not all the same.

Do you know the name of your friends bank?

If so perhaps you could reveal.

[Jinjo14]

I asked him , he applied once with krungsri and they gave him 3 credit cards at once (jcb, visa, first choice) which if true was highly irresponsible of them.
he had a managerial role at the time earning 85k a month.

 

I gave him an earful on why he didn’t try to arrange a payment plan and stop using the damn things.  I shudder to think at 20% or so how much the interest would be.  He was adamant that he emailed them asking for a solution but never received a reply except statements every month.  
 

after about a year, they stopped coming and he received an email that his accounts were terminated and handed over to their credit collection team. That’s the last he ever heard of them.

[RJRS1301]

I am amazed that Visa and the others have not listed him in default affecting his credit  reference lisiting worldwide

 

If he is in management he should be able to live within his means unless he is a serial offender.

 

[RichardColeman]

So he ran up 120k  debt on each card ? Total Of 360K - or £9,200 or $12,000 ? the minimum payment would be about £350 or $500 a month.

 

From information given I very much doubt he stopped working so much as ran off !

 

But hey, it's OK now, he wants a holiday rather than pay HIS DEBT !

[HampiK]

5 hours ago, Delight said:

 I have a credit card with Bangkok bank

My credit limit is identical to monies that I put into  fixed account with them

So no danger for them.

I have it for convenience.

 

It seems that the banks are not all the same.

Do you know the name of your friends bank?

If so perhaps you could reveal.

Mostly foreigners need to have to deposit the amount of the credit limit from the credit card.

But when you have a work permit this deposit is not necessary. Even without work permit it's possible to receive a credit card without the safety deposit. I think it depends how much money you have in the bank.

 

Look how easy it is for Thais to become a credit card with a limit much more they earn. And I see some Thais with more than 3-4 cards in their wallet. Of course not all live over their standards, but I would guess there are some (or more)...

[IvorBiggun2]

22 hours ago, Ventenio said:

I think cheaper to fly his friend to Laos and meet them there.

It's the likes of the OP's friend that gives us lawful/legal farangs a bad name and he should cough up what he owes. But other than that, Ventino got it right IMO. 

[donnacha]

4 hours ago, Jinjo14 said:

he received an email that his accounts were terminated and handed over to their credit collection team.

Okay, so, there is your answer. He can be absolutely certain that his name is on a list against which all incoming visitors to Thailand are automatically cross-referenced. Standard practice for any collection agency.

Unless he is traveling under a different name, he will be stopped. They will have been waiting for him since the time his name appeared on the flight manifest.

He will be held until the current debt is paid. That will include all accumulated fees and the agency's interest rate, which will be significantly higher than the previous credit card rate.
 

 

23 hours ago, Jinjo14 said:

He wants to return to Thailand for a holiday to visit friends

People often have surprisingly complex motivations for the things they do. Your friend may have been harboring a sense of guilt, possibly connected to some other part of his life, or perhaps just a self-destructive urge, and actually wants to spend time in a Thai prison.

If you run out on a bank debt in any country, you accept that you can never return and you pray that it does not impact your credit rating internationally. You do not pop back for a holiday and cross your fingers that the computer systems will be out of action that day.
 

 

23 hours ago, Jinjo14 said:

he was getting rimmed on interest and transfer charges and after emailing each bank to find a solution and not getting a reply he stopped payments

That certainly suggests some level of delusion. The interest rates would have been whatever he agreed to when he signed up to the cards. The transfer charges would have been the standard international transfer fee from his own home bank or a service such as Transferwise to his Thai bank account, roughly $5 or $10 per transfer.

Only a sociopath would think it is okay to unilaterally cancel the loan because their bank did not respond to an email, presumably written in English, requesting a renegotiation of debts that he had already incurred.


 

Edited December 31, 2019 by donnacha

[jackdd]

23 hours ago, Jinjo14 said:

This was over 3 years ago.

Usually Thai credit cards charge about 30% interest per year, so whatever he owed 3 years ago, it has now about doubled.

[tomazbodner]

4 hours ago, Jinjo14 said:

I asked him , he applied once with krungsri and they gave him 3 credit cards at once (jcb, visa, first choice) which if true was highly irresponsible of them.
he had a managerial role at the time earning 85k a month.

 

I gave him an earful on why he didn’t try to arrange a payment plan and stop using the damn things.  I shudder to think at 20% or so how much the interest would be.  He was adamant that he emailed them asking for a solution but never received a reply except statements every month.  
 

after about a year, they stopped coming and he received an email that his accounts were terminated and handed over to their credit collection team. That’s the last he ever heard of them.

Krungsri is part of MUFG (previously GE Capital) and is very unlikely to let this go. Not only would they have contacted immigration, but they are also continuing to count that 18% interest until full amount and interest are paid off.

Not receiving a response in his favour from the bank does not clear his debt but rather gets him in significant legal challenges.

 

He really should have someone (preferably Thai) to contact the bank on his behalf and arrange a repayment, as that half a million could have become a million by now and growing.

 

Just saw 2 posts before mine: Thanks Donnacha. Yes, forgot to mention that collection agency (which is usually external to the bank) would also have their (not low) fees, and that there would also be legal expenses to cover, which makes even my estimate of double the amount probably too low. Jackdd: Law limits interest to 18% annual plus some credit usage fee, so basically in practical terms 20% per year. But that's compounding, so it would easily reach double the amount when left for 3 years. In other words - the man will spend a lot of time locked up until he coughs up well over a million baht should he return to Thailand. And it is likely (given he literally stole from internationally owned banks) that this won't escape him at his home country either. One day he'll get a visit. When the amount is many times larger than now.

Edited December 31, 2019 by tomazbodner
after seeing previous 2 posts

[jackdd]

4 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Jackdd: Law limits interest to 18% annual plus some credit usage fee, so basically in practical terms 20% per year.

Yes, but there are also "fees" and other stuff through which they bypass this law.

I once calculated the "total cost" (interest, fees, etc.) of my girlfriend's credit cards, and effectively it's about 30% interest.

[yogi100]

Jinjo, tell your chum not to bother and to go to the PI instead.

 

While you're at it also tell him about the fellow who died from beatings he received and from dehydration brought on by being refused water in the jail the Thais put him in.

 

You could be reading about the same thing happening to him otherwise.

 

The Thai establishment won't take kindly to a falang who's knocked one of their banks for this sort of money. They've got little enough time for us as it is.

[RJRS1301]

9 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

Jinjo, tell your chum not to bother and to go to the PI instead.

 

While you're at it also tell him about the fellow who died from beatings he received and from dehydration brought on by being refused water in the jail the Thais put him in.

 

You could be reading about the same thing happening to him otherwise.

 

The Thai establishment won't take kindly to a falang who's knocked one of their banks for this sort of money. They've got little enough time for us as it is.

Surely if he works middle management he can afford to pay the debt off before trying to enter the Kingdom?

He spent the funds, enjoyed the benefits, did a runner , pure dishonesty, he should repay his debt

Edited December 31, 2019 by RJRS1301

[yogi100]

49 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Surely if he works middle management he can afford to pay the debt off before trying to enter the Kingdom?

He spent the funds, enjoyed the benefits, did a runner , pure dishonesty, he should repay his debt

Tell the OP.

No point telling me, I don't even know the bloke!

[Tounge Thaied]

Usually banks have a cap (by law) and/or expiration date on added interest on unpaid credit cards. Usually, the bank will attempt for a short while to recoup their money, but will ultimately sell the debt off to a collection agency that will use many tactics to attempt get the money back. The banks will for sure have notified immigration authorities and your friends name and passport number will be flagged. If he ever wants to come back to Thailand, he will have to get a Thai attorney and sort out a payment plan. 

[meand]

6 hours ago, donnacha said:

Okay, so, there is your answer. He can be absolutely certain that his name is on a list against which all incoming visitors to Thailand are automatically cross-referenced. Standard practice for any collection agency.

Unless he is traveling under a different name, he will be stopped. They will have been waiting for him since the time his name appeared on the flight manifest.

He will be held until the current debt is paid. That will include all accumulated fees and the agency's interest rate, which will be significantly higher than the previous credit card rate.
 

 

People often have surprisingly complex motivations for the things they do. Your friend may have been harboring a sense of guilt, possibly connected to some other part of his life, or perhaps just a self-destructive urge, and actually wants to spend time in a Thai prison.

If you run out on a bank debt in any country, you accept that you can never return and you pray that it does not impact your credit rating internationally. You do not pop back for a holiday and cross your fingers that the computer systems will be out of action that day.
 

 

That certainly suggests some level of delusion. The interest rates would have been whatever he agreed to when he signed up to the cards. The transfer charges would have been the standard international transfer fee from his own home bank or a service such as Transferwise to his Thai bank account, roughly $5 or $10 per transfer.

Only a sociopath would think it is okay to unilaterally cancel the loan because their bank did not respond to an email, presumably written in English, requesting a renegotiation of debts that he had already incurred.


 

"Any country"? I will admit I have no idea how things work in Thailand. I would not think most people in this forum know how it works either by the way.

 

But I do know for a fact you can have as much cc debt as you can pile up in the US and you will not be getting stopped at any airport. 

 

I think a lot of the posts in this particular topic represent some serious virtue signaling. 

[donnacha]

6 hours ago, meand said:

I think a lot of the posts in this particular topic represent some serious virtue signaling. 

I am not sure I understand. Are you suggesting that my post was virtue signaling? Or would you like to keep it as a vague accusation, not leveled at anyone in particular?

 

6 hours ago, meand said:

"Any country"? I will admit I have no idea how things work in Thailand. I would not think most people in this forum know how it works either by the way.

Do you realize that quite a few "people in this forum" have decades of experience, not just of Thailand but in the professions, careers, and businesses they had in their lives before coming here?

Do you understand that this is not Reddit or some online hangout for teenagers, but a forum for expats of all ages, representing a broad cross-sections of many different societies all over the world?
 

 

6 hours ago, meand said:

But I do know for a fact you can have as much cc debt as you can pile up in the US and you will not be getting stopped at any airport. 

So, you are saying that if a collection agency succeeds in getting a court-ordered judgment against you, and you have failed to comply with that judgement, you won't be arrested as soon as you fly into America?

Honestly, I don't care. It is a brand new year. I hereby resolve not to waste anymore of my time arguing with anonymous online morons. Not saying that anyone in particular is a moron, but, sweet Jesus!

 

[amykat]

20 minutes ago, donnacha said:

I am not sure I understand. Are you suggesting that my post was virtue signaling? Or would you like to keep it as a vague accusation, not leveled at anyone in particular?

 

Do you realize that quite a few "people in this forum" have decades of experience, not just of Thailand but in the professions, careers, and businesses they had in their lives before coming here?

Do you understand that this is not Reddit or some online hangout for teenagers, but a forum for expats of all ages, representing a broad cross-sections of many different societies all over the world?
 

 

So, you are saying that if a collection agency succeeds in getting a court-ordered judgment against you, and you have failed to comply with that judgement, you won't be arrested as soon as you fly into America?

Honestly, I don't care. It is a brand new year. I hereby resolve not to waste anymore of my time arguing with anonymous online morons. Not saying that anyone in particular is a moron, but, sweet Jesus!

 

Donnacha, you are a high information farang, some people here like low information people, but I prefer your style, so please stay around.  Happy New Year ????!!

[cranki]

38 minutes ago, donnacha said:

I am not sure I understand. Are you suggesting that my post was virtue signaling? Or would you like to keep it as a vague accusation, not leveled at anyone in particular?

 

Do you realize that quite a few "people in this forum" have decades of experience, not just of Thailand but in the professions, careers, and businesses they had in their lives before coming here?

Do you understand that this is not Reddit or some online hangout for teenagers, but a forum for expats of all ages, representing a broad cross-sections of many different societies all over the world?
 

 

So, you are saying that if a collection agency succeeds in getting a court-ordered judgment against you, and you have failed to comply with that judgement, you won't be arrested as soon as you fly into America?

Honestly, I don't care. It is a brand new year. I hereby resolve not to waste anymore of my time arguing with anonymous online morons. Not saying that anyone in particular is a moron, but, sweet Jesus!

 

Speaking of morons......what the hell is an international credit rating....lmao !!!! sheesh....

[RJRS1301]

3 hours ago, cranki said:

Speaking of morons......what the hell is an international credit rating....lmao !!!! sheesh....

I would have assumed that an organisation such as Visa would list a person who is in default with them with all there overseas outlets and issuers irrespective of country debt accrued in. Thereby making an impact on your credit rating across the globe

[Nip]

I recall 20 years ago I divorced my wife and as part of the settlement was that I would clear her Bank debts. Fortunately I had a buddy who was the manager of her Bank and he confided that Banks realise chasing bad debts can be tossing further good money after bad. He advised me that his bank indeed most banks will settle for 60% of the original debt in full and final settlement. He suggested that I make an written offer to clear the debt I did and they accepted 60% indeed it was all very amicable. The 60% was on the basis they reinstated my wife's credit rating. Now maybe things have changed but the best advice is if you stop communicating they will definately file against you.

[wimpy]

8 hours ago, donnacha said:

So, you are saying that if a collection agency succeeds in getting a court-ordered judgment against you, and you have failed to comply with that judgement, you won't be arrested as soon as you fly into America?

That is correct. They can seize your assets and garnish your wages, but they do not put you in jail.

[BestB]

Credit card is  unsecured loan and this is why interest is so high.

 

bank Will not go to court and will never get court order this is why it’s called unsecured loan.

 

your friend has nothing to worry about ,in your case of tax office it’s different matter 

[donnacha]

11 minutes ago, wimpy said:

That is correct. They can seize your assets and garnish your wages, but they do not put you in jail.

For a debt, yes, but you can be arrested for failing to comply with a court-ordered judgement to repay a debt or enter into a repayment plan. Technically, you are arrested not for the debt but for the failure to comply. I believe this applies in about a third of the states. A court case can move forward against you in your absence.
 

[Lacessit]

I do get fed up with deadbeats asking about what they should do with a debt. Life would be a lot simpler for them if they followed Mr. Micawber's advice.

[robblok]

4 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I would have assumed that an organisation such as Visa would list a person who is in default with them with all there overseas outlets and issuers irrespective of country debt accrued in. Thereby making an impact on your credit rating across the globe

I am not sure, but Visa does not directly give you that creditcard. Its the bank that does so and the debt is with the bank.