PM’s world-politics adviser warns of ‘worrying future’

[GalaxyMan]

15 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

Seems 'Corridors' are the answer to all woes !

A corridor to the exit might be the best possible solution, if Prayut will use it.

[rkidlad]

4 minutes ago, saengd said:

"Cynical realism is the intelligent persons best excuse for doing nothing".

 

Aldous Huxley

“Cynical realism—it's the intelligent man's best excuse for doing nothing in an intolerable situation”

 

At least get the quote right. 

[saengd]

5 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

“Cynical realism—it's the intelligent man's best excuse for doing nothing in an intolerable situation”

 

At least get the quote right. 

Shame that, if you'd typed it out rather than cut and paste, people might think you actually knew it!

 

Looks like we're all done here on this topic, perhaps time to go do something useful.

[rkidlad]

1 minute ago, saengd said:

Shame that, if you'd typed it out rather than cut and paste, people might think you actually knew it.

The irony being that you're the one who didn't know it. You forgot the end which is the most important part. 

[sammieuk1]

Surely there will be a billion rich Indians en-route to calm the worrying future ???? 

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, saengd said:

You think! Given the chance to do the wrong thing I suspect they will seize the moment.

As Churchill once said, "America always does the right thing...after they have tried everything else.

[PatOngo]

2 hours ago, saengd said:

Seven posts and not one constructive post, just lots of name calling and sarcasm, it's like the school yard!

Great post! Very constructive and informative! If the clown that runs the white house gets another 4 year term things WILL be very worrying!

[yellowboat]

52 minutes ago, saengd said:

We've been there on this point already, there's no need to come up with an argument why it's a good thing to do, the government is spending money on developing business infrastructure to improve the economy but you personally don't like that particular idea, get over it.

I beg your pardon, but the statement above rings of cynical realism.   

 

If memory serves, the EEC is centered around the U-Tapao airport which is military owned.  Some of us here are very skeptical of the motives of the military.  Is the EEC for the average Thai or the military?  How does the average Thai benefit from purchase of submarines?  That's the argument and not something to just "get over".

 

1 hour ago, saengd said:

Why are SME's here so fragile you ask. Well yes they are, or so it seems. I refer back to the link I provided earlier, business in Thailand is still embryonic and the deck is loaded against foreign competition. Twenty years ago the country was in the dog house, growth and stability take time to establish. Perhaps when Thai businesses are more experienced and stable they'll be in a position to compete internationally and/or compete with foreign competition, today they are not. Is that a bad thing and is it fair....no, of course but growing a country from 80% rice farmers takes time and a different set of rules perhaps than most of us are used to.

Growth and stability are not hallmarks of a country that favors coups to settle disputes, so that day of establishment and stability may never come.  Taiwan partnered with big and small foriegn firms from all over the world.  Those incentives are non existent in Thailand.

 

I am still trying to grasp your argument.  True, the vast majority in this knitting circle are  anti military rule, but shouldn't we be?

[Chazar]

16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

beckon other investors

they  better  get  the  hottest  go-go  girls  for  that  gig then

[GalaxyMan]

12 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

If memory serves, the EEC is centered around the U-Tapao airport which is military owned.  Some of us here are very skeptical of the motives of the military.  Is the EEC for the average Thai or the military?  How does the average Thai benefit from purchase of submarines?  That's the argument and not something to just "get over".

 

True, the vast majority in this knitting circle are  anti military rule, but shouldn't we be?

The military is all about the military. They couldn't give 2 s.h.i.t.s about the people.

[ubon farang]

1 hour ago, saengd said:

Like that's never been done in any other country in the world throughout history that has subsequently developed into a well managed democracy, over time!!!

Oh ok i am learning all the time. I guess  it is one way of becoming  the government Just seize control

[allenberg]

39 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

I beg your pardon, but the statement above rings of cynical realism.   

 

If memory serves, the EEC is centered around the U-Tapao airport which is military owned.  Some of us here are very skeptical of the motives of the military.  Is the EEC for the average Thai or the military?  How does the average Thai benefit from purchase of submarines?  That's the argument and not something to just "get over".

 

Growth and stability are not hallmarks of a country that favors coups to settle disputes, so that day of establishment and stability may never come.  Taiwan partnered with big and small foriegn firms from all over the world.  Those incentives are non existent in Thailand.

 

I am still trying to grasp your argument.  True, the vast majority in this knitting circle are  anti military rule, but shouldn't we be?

+1 Agree 100%

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, saengd said:

We've been there on this point already, there's no need to come up with an argument why it's a good thing to do, the government is spending money on developing business infrastructure to improve the economy but you personally don't like that particular idea, get over it.

 

Why are SME's here so fragile you ask. Well yes they are, or so it seems. I refer back to the link I provided earlier, business in Thailand is still embryonic and the deck is loaded against foreign competition. Twenty years ago the country was in the dog house, growth and stability take time to establish. Perhaps when Thai businesses are more experienced and stable they'll be in a position to compete internationally and/or compete with foreign competition, today they are not. Is that a bad thing and is it fair....no, of course but growing a country from 80% rice farmers takes time and a different set of rules perhaps than most of us are used to.

 

 

Your hypothesis that Thai Businesses, particularly SME's, will learn and develop knowledge and skill to become competitive with foreign businesses at home and overseas is based on what?

 

The Thai propensity for learning? The Thai business acumen and relishing of competition?

 

The reality is all businesses, even the very large ones, enjoy a highly protected home market, and do all they can to maintain that protected environment and market.

 

I would suggest that all businesses here are more concerned to protect the protectionism and exploit their monopoly if the have one rather than learn and develop. Competing is hard work and there is an uncertainty about it. Being protected is rather nice and very comfortable. It means they can continue to charge what they like for providing goods and services to whatever standards they feel like.

[Isaan sailor]

2 hours ago, saengd said:

We know you can't because that's the easy way out. Others may look at all of this and think that it's just another step in the development process, for which there is no quick and easy answer, despite your aspirations that there might be. I'm guessing that people like you think that Thailand should just have open and democratic elections so that the people can chose rather than be led, that in a country where the education level is so very very low, vote buying is still the norm, corruption is rampant, etc etc etc. Democracy is not one size fits all either, some populations simply aren't able to handle it or are not sufficiently developed to sensibly allow it.

What Thailand needs is a benevolent dictator—one who can steer the country to middle ground.  Current regime steers Thailand straight to China.

[Redline]

Besides the big cats running the country with only self interest, the other issue is SMEs don’t have ambassadors that speak other languages to scout and promote in other countries. Only 1 percent of the world speaks Thai.  When the Thai economy dies, there is no where to go, and more loans won’t cut the mustard 

[saengd]

2 hours ago, yellowboat said:

I beg your pardon, but the statement above rings of cynical realism.   

 

If memory serves, the EEC is centered around the U-Tapao airport which is military owned.  Some of us here are very skeptical of the motives of the military.  Is the EEC for the average Thai or the military?  How does the average Thai benefit from purchase of submarines?  That's the argument and not something to just "get over".

 

Growth and stability are not hallmarks of a country that favors coups to settle disputes, so that day of establishment and stability may never come.  Taiwan partnered with big and small foriegn firms from all over the world.  Those incentives are non existent in Thailand.

 

I am still trying to grasp your argument.  True, the vast majority in this knitting circle are  anti military rule, but shouldn't we be?

I don't believe a country achieves growth and stability in one fell swoop, they are steps in a process that may easily be decades long, especially when the starting point is a nation of rice farmers tending buffalo's, in Thailand's case that is very recent history.

 

I'm not going to debate the EEC with you, you don't like it, we know and I've told you my opinion of it. So when you write, "Growth and stability are not hallmarks of a country that favors coups to settle disputes", with a military government already in power they now have to find a new way forward.

 

The army seized power to prevent the various factions from killing each other, not the most subtle approach but it did save lives, I think. And after some twenty coups it was not an illogical step for the military to seize power, the fact they may not necessarily be fully equipped to handle it in the first instance is largely irrelevant, lives were saved and the next step in the process has been taken. And after all, the chances of another coup when the military are already in power is remote. 

 

 

 

 

[saengd]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Your hypothesis that Thai Businesses, particularly SME's, will learn and develop knowledge and skill to become competitive with foreign businesses at home and overseas is based on what?

 

The Thai propensity for learning? The Thai business acumen and relishing of competition?

 

The reality is all businesses, even the very large ones, enjoy a highly protected home market, and do all they can to maintain that protected environment and market.

 

I would suggest that all businesses here are more concerned to protect the protectionism and exploit their monopoly if the have one rather than learn and develop. Competing is hard work and there is an uncertainty about it. Being protected is rather nice and very comfortable. It means they can continue to charge what they like for providing goods and services to whatever standards they feel like.

"Your hypothesis that Thai Businesses, particularly SME's, will learn and develop knowledge and skill to become competitive with foreign businesses at home and overseas is based on what?" It's an inevitable consequence of the passage of time, they will not be protected forever which is why many of them are branching out overseas to get a foothold, that's knowledge acquisition in itself.

[saengd]

3 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Great post! Very constructive and informative! If the clown that runs the white house gets another 4 year term things WILL be very worrying!

Look on the positive side, the barb did its job and got people thinking and talking about the problem rather than avoiding it with meaningless one liners.

 

But agreed fully on your second point, it's a scary prospect.

[yellowboat]

40 minutes ago, saengd said:

I don't believe a country achieves growth and stability in one fell swoop, they are steps in a process that may easily be decades long, especially when the starting point is a nation of rice farmers tending buffalo's, in Thailand's case that is very recent history.

That is pretty much every Asian country's recent history.   Indo China was ravaged by war for threel decades after WW2, and Vietnam is hot on Thailand's tail.   Excusing Thailand for its shortcomings when Vietnam is catching fire, rings hollow. 

 

44 minutes ago, saengd said:

I'm not going to debate the EEC with you, you don't like it, we know and I've told you my opinion of it. So when you write, "Growth and stability are not hallmarks of a country that favors coups to settle disputes", with a military government already in power they now have to find a new way forward.

Which is?  Do you have an argument, a recommendation or more empty excuses?    When it comes to the EEC, you have no substantive argument, so there is no debate.

 

46 minutes ago, saengd said:

The army seized power to prevent the various factions from killing each other, not the most subtle approach but it did save lives, I think. And after some twenty coups it was not an illogical step for the military to seize power, the fact they may not necessarily be fully equipped to handle it in the first instance is largely irrelevant, lives were saved and the next step in the process has been taken. And after all, the chances of another coup when the military are already in power is remote. 

For five years ?   You sound like apologist fore military rule.   The army should have restored order then allowed an election as did the last coup.   Not hold the country hostage for five years, load the legislature with shills in uniform, institute martial law, intimidate people with attitude adjustment and redraw electoral lines.   Why did these "brave" coup leaders ask for a pardon from the courts if they did in fact do a good thing?

 

The current coup will avoid a coup from happening as there is already a coup that is happening, so no coup while there is a coup?  Are you a comedian?

[yellowboat]

 

1 hour ago, saengd said:

"Your hypothesis that Thai Businesses, particularly SME's, will learn and develop knowledge and skill to become competitive with foreign businesses at home and overseas is based on what?" It's an inevitable consequence of the passage of time, they will not be protected forever which is why many of them are branching out overseas to get a foothold, that's knowledge acquisition in itself.

You know this because there is a very wise gnome in your garden who can see into the future?  The same ideas you have could be said for future of North Korea.   Why did China surpass Thailand in the 90's?  I was in both places at that time.  The simple answer was education and opportunity.  Even now, China offers most of its people more opportunity than Thailand.   And the Chinese leadership is far smarter than that of the generals running Thailand.  

 

You say nothing rather eloquently.

[scorecard]

19 hours ago, ParkerN said:

Fiddling while Rome gets ready to burn. That's all. Long as they can keep their snouts in the trough prepared for them, all will be well, and that's all they're really interested in.

Sure, but don't forget to appoint a committee and never mind whether the members have any capability or exerience in the matter at hand. 

[saengd]

37 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

That is pretty much every Asian country's recent history.   Indo China was ravaged by war for threel decades after WW2, and Vietnam is hot on Thailand's tail.   Excusing Thailand for its shortcomings when Vietnam is catching fire, rings hollow. 

 

Which is?  Do you have an argument, a recommendation or more empty excuses?    When it comes to the EEC, you have no substantive argument, so there is no debate.

 

For five years ?   You sound like apologist fore military rule.   The army should have restored order then allowed an election as did the last coup.   Not hold the country hostage for five years, load the legislature with shills in uniform, institute martial law, intimidate people with attitude adjustment and redraw electoral lines.   Why did these "brave" coup leaders ask for a pardon from the courts if they did in fact do a good thing?

 

The current coup will avoid a coup from happening as there is already a coup that is happening, so no coup while there is a coup?  Are you a comedian?

I'm still not going to debate the EEC, no matter how much you prod.

 

As for the rest of it....let's just agree to disagree, it's getting silly.

[DoktorC]

TL;DR    can we go back to the one liners   555

[saengd]

1 minute ago, DoktorC said:

TL;DR    can we go back to the one liners   555

Comics with pictures easily found elsewhere if attention span is an issue.

[yellowboat]

46 minutes ago, saengd said:

I'm still not going to debate the EEC, no matter how much you prod.

 

As for the rest of it....let's just agree to disagree, it's getting silly.

It is silly as you have yet to make a substantive argument of which to agree or disagree.   Debate is not silly.  It is still shun by the usurper you think will change the country for the better.  It also loved by Thaivisa.com because it generates traffic.   I agree to nothing. 

[Knocker33]

22 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

Seems 'Corridors' are the answer to all woes !

And committee's don't forget committees 

[saengd]

22 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

It is silly as you have yet to make a substantive argument of which to agree or disagree.   Debate is not silly.  It is still shun by the usurper you think will change the country for the better.  It also loved by Thaivisa.com because it generates traffic.   I agree to nothing. 

Don't get upset, you don't like the EEC, I get that.

 

I also get that you don't think the currently ex-coup leaders government is part of a longer term process that will transition to a stable democratically elected government, in time.

 

I further think you may not have seen first hand the huge changes that have taken place since 1997, you're only looking at the last five years, I think.

 

We don't agree, don't beat our disagreement to death, it's what it is, we don't agree.

[yellowboat]

34 minutes ago, saengd said:

I further think you may not have seen first hand the huge changes that have taken place since 1997, you're only looking at the last five years, I think.

Sorry, they were not huge at all.   Saw changes in Taiwan, China, Singapore and Hong Kong during that time.   Thailand and Malaysia did make any great advances that I know of.  What advances are you talking about ?    All the coups?

[saengd]

9 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Sorry, they were not huge at all.   Saw changes in Taiwan, China, Singapore and Hong Kong during that time.   Thailand and Malaysia did make any great advances that I know of.  What advances are you talking about ?    All the coups?

I think we're done, bye.

[DoktorC]

2 hours ago, saengd said:

Comics with pictures easily found elsewhere if attention span is an issue.

Well that's what I thought I found the picture and the quotes from the PM's world political advisor to wit - Thailand better get prepared for tensions in the Middle East.   I guess the Thai government just woke up?  That was comical, until you turned into a slog about how great coups are as a path to democracy.  Not sure I can understand where that comes from... but hey that's you.