"Complaining" about Thai immigration issues while still loving Thailand

[Bangkok Barry]

I enjoy living in Thailand, but what officials might do with us in the future is always hanging over our heads and that isn't a great way to live. And while I do enjoy being here, it is getting increasingly frustrating to know that in my native UK so many things are far better quality and now cheaper than in Thailand. Paying more for poorer quality doesn't always sit well.

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, gamini said:

I think most of the moaning here is about immigration. They don't have the financial requirements to stay here. They are not genuine tourists and they have been using all sorts of loopholes in the past to continue staying here. They now complain  all the time because immigration is closing the loopholes and enforcing the law. Many of them don't want to go back to their own country because they're so ugly and unattractive that they could never find a decent looking girl where they come from. And most of them have no idea about the situation in other countries because they never been anywhere else except Thailand.

I agree in the beginning of your post, about immigration, as many posts and new threads seems to be about immigration problems.

 

And yes, a number of us are kind of "financial migrants" as we might find a better lifestyle here, than we can afford at home, at least for similar level of funds. So in a way a number of us are kind of trapped, i.e. can manage to stay, but would find it hard to leave; even moving on might, if not impossible then, be unpleasant.

 

But I don't think moaning solves anything, if one is financially trapped...????

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, khunPer said:

And yes, a number of us are kind of "financial migrants" as we might find a better lifestyle here, than we can afford at home, at least for similar level of funds. So in a way a number of us are kind of trapped, i.e. can manage to stay, but would find it hard to leave; even moving on might, if not impossible then, be unpleasant.

I consider myself more a 'romance migrant'.

I could live well enough in the UK or France, but prefer not to be alone in bed at night (or sleeping with granny).

Edited January 17, 2020 by BritManToo

[emptypockets]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

What wrong with that advice?... Answer: The lack of imagination involved with suggesting such advice...  advice often suggested by the same clowns who suggest the ‘farang is always at fault’ along with all the rest of the daft, dumb, unimaginative offerings presented by posters who are simply unaware they are dumb !!!

If I go to a restaurant and something is not to my standard....I leave. I would recommend others do the same.

If I go to a movie theatre and I don't like the movie ..I leave. I would recommend others do the same.

Why would the advice to leave any location you don't like be daft or dumb?

Staying somewhere you don't like epitomises daft and dumb in my opinion.

 

But staying in the restaurant or movie theatre and complaining to other patrons or potential patrons is plainly silly any you would look really daft and dumb. Especially when it is the cheapest establishment in town, but you are struggling to pay for food or the price of an admission ticket.

 

Even worse is standing outside trying to convince patrons who are very satisfied with the restaurant or theatre borders on pathalogical insanity.

 

IMO it all comes down to money and the ability to stay in your chosen location. The rest of it, TM zyx 90 day this and that is just a smokescreen for the real issue.

 

Not knocking people who have made a mistake and overeached themselves financially, but we are all adults and need to act like adults. No shame in not having the resources to stay in Thailand, but at least be honest.

 

Sure, people have had issues with Thai people that have caused them grief. I understand that. Move somewhere else in Thailand or even elsewhere if necessary.

Edited January 17, 2020 by emptypockets

[Dumbastheycome]

On 1/14/2020 at 11:39 AM, Matzzon said:

You seem to be hung up on the phrase "If you do not like it. Get Out!". Sad to hear, because that is such a useful phrase to be used on many comments in this forum. For example on all the constant complainers.

 

The phrase is not despicable in any kind of way. It´s probably not used to tell somebody to leave directly, but more as making a point that the complainer should just go back in the line and hide.

 

It´s just to understand this. When you choose to reside long term or settle down in Thailand, then you do not take your western values with you. That is a part of what you chose to leave. When all the expats in Thailand understand that, then we can all live in harmony.

Very  valid IMO. If  any individual  leaves what they know but for whatever reason makes that decision to reject or be rejected and then proceeds  to make  judgemental ( versus practical critical observation) comment on their location of choice should consider the reasons they are where they are.

[khunPer]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I consider myself more a 'romance migrant'.

I could live well enough in the UK or France, but prefer not to be alone in bed at night (or sleeping with granny).

Could you also afford not to sleep alone in bed at night (or sleeping with granny) in the UK or France...?

????

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

If I go to a restaurant and something is not to my standard....I leave. I would recommend others do the same.

If I go to a movie theatre and I don't like the movie ..I leave. I would recommend others do the same.

Why would the advice to leave any location you don't like be daft or dumb?

Staying somewhere you don't like epitomises daft and dumb in my opinion.

What if the air-con in your home breaks, or the roof leaks?

Do you still leave, or do you try and find a way round the problem?

[BritManToo]

Just now, khunPer said:

Could you also afford not to sleep alone in bed at night (or sleeping with granny) in the UK or France...?

????

I've been looking at several run down French farm houses. between 10,000 and 20,000 Euros with barns and a nice bit of land.

I'm quite good at building, and I wouldn't mind a go at farming. It's something I could easily afford to try.

I doubt I'd be able to find an attractive woman to share my bed there though.

[Nyezhov]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I've been looking at several run down French farm houses. between 10,000 and 20,000 Euros with barns and a nice bit of land.

I'm quite good at building, and I wouldn't mind a go at farming. It's something I could easily afford to try.

I doubt I'd be able to find an attractive woman to share my bed there though.

Yeah, I keep looking here, and looking there, but where else could I get an itch at 8pm and have it scratched by 9 for pocket change and home to bed by 10. Id probably have to be in Frankfurt and spend a few quid more.

[emptypockets]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

This is an open forum.  Topics are posted and posters can give their opinion.

 

Western countries  would have never improved, if it's citizens didn't complain, criticize those who had the power to hange things and then be proactive in continuing to demand change. The same in Thailand to a certain extent- except  it takes a major issue that affects millions before a real change takes place.

 

As people who work here; reside here and  some who pay taxes here- we should have a right to an opinion about those things Thai as long as done respectfully and within the limits of local sensibilities and proper decorum.

 

Many of us who have been here decades  came to a Thailand which was  mostly poor; had tons of hope; pristine beaches; lovely and friendly people and a promise for  a real future for everyone.  Unfortunately, some of these things have been degraded for various reasons. 

 

We fell in love with Thai culture; Thai people; Thai food and everything Thai- except one thing-  the bureacracy has always been loathed by both Thais and foreigners.

 

Much of the complaining for us really long stayers  centers on a  bureacracy that refuses to recognize our legitimacy to  stay without hassles; a recognition of reciprocity and being treated the same in Thailand as our Thai relatives are in our own countries. When one marries a Thai citizen, we are simply treated as a long stay tourist while  in the reverse after a few years- our  spouses would have every right and benefit of a citizen (except voting)/

 

I fully accept all the differences of living in Thailand- culture wise; driving habits; religious preferences and other idiosyncracies. In fact,  most I wouldn't change.

 

While I have to accept Immigration anomilies; different treatment at different offics; ridiculous changes in policy and laws which some cannot even comply  with , such as medical insurance. due to age and a system that refuses to bend without being primed by agents- that doesn't mean I have to like it or shouldn't complain about it.  There is a universal principle that is expected everywhere by everyone- fairness and equity.

 

If no one ever complains about improtant things such as  bad laws or pollution or  abuse of students- nothing will ever change.  As foreigners, we have no advocacy groups except our Embassies or Chambers of Commerce to try and get the bureacracy to listen to our plights.

 

This forum,  is a lifeline for many who are uninformed; having problems; just plain lonely and need to complain.  IMO,  if one does not like the topic- move on to one that you like.

 

Telling a poster to go back to their birth country or leave Thailand is not only rude and offensive- it shows a lack of tolerance.   Many of us in Thailand-are already home!

 

 

 

And the vast majority, nay, overwhelming majority are not citizens and rightly have no say in how the country is run. Check your passport and see what length of permission to stay you have.

Most people here have their personal grudges and whines about foreigners coming to their home countries and complaining about anything. The usual reply is if you don't like go back to where you come from.

Face it....you are the <deleted>,<deleted>,Chink Muzzy ( insert derogatory racist name of your choice) etc etc in this country. Some people simply can't accept that. Having white skin is no passport to respect and acceptance anywhere, and hasn't been for decades.

 

Unfortunately all the whiners have to whine to is their own racial group, in the majority of cases, westerners. Don't hold you breath that anything is going to change in Thailand any time soon based on the complaints of non citizens.

Go with the flow....life is much easier.

[Dap]

On 1/14/2020 at 1:46 PM, Matzzon said:

Have you ever thought about that there might be nothing to complain about, and that most of the people doing that just need something to waste their otherwise very boring life on?

Nope! Never once thought that.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, statman78 said:

I have no problems with the complainers but if all you do is complain and can’t find 1 good thing to say then I feel sorry for you since you must have a miserable life.  
No place is perfect and no place is so bad that it has no positive features.  I prefer to focus on the positives and TRY to let the negatives go.

My house is great, my gf is great, my children are great.

I can tolerate the pollution for 3 months of the year, I don't mind the dangerous drivers.

 

BUT immigration is a total <deleted> show, which is really hard to avoid.

[Traubert]

Complaints about immigration is just tilting at windmills. Ten complaints a day is just competitive tilting at windmills.

 

Complaints about TAT and their figures is nobodies affair but TATs. It affects expats not one jot.

 

Complaints about Chinese and Indian tourists are largely fiction. They are people too. Some of the things said on here would result in arrest in your own countries.

 

Complaints about Thai drivers are fruitless. The rural community is too big to control.

 

Complaints about RTP are contradictory and border on slander in some cases. Just pray they don't become efficient overnight.

 

Complaints about air quality, welcome to Asia.

 

I think I've covered 90% of the daily input on TV and that's the whole point. In the Thailand section day after day after day it's the same stuff from the same posters. If you try to explain, give them a nudge. ease their way along the path, you're an 'apologist.'

 

Now Mr Puchiyank says that nobody had better tell him to go home (although he has) or they get a stern telling off. So do us apologists get the same freedom? Is it any less rude or confrontational to be branded an 'apologist?' What are we apologising for? Well, see, it's Thai apologist, we're apologising for Thailand.

 

Because Thailand is always wrong.

[bwpage3]

On 1/14/2020 at 1:46 AM, Matzzon said:

Have you ever thought about that there might be nothing to complain about, and that most of the people doing that just need something to waste their otherwise very boring life on?

Come on man, nothing to complain of?

 

Did you just move to Thailand yesterday?

 

Many of these folks moved to Thailand to retire only to see a myriad of issues, get worse and worse and worse over the years.

 

These issues like the baht rate, visa's, insurance, air pollution, droughts, floods, rising costs directly affect these folks.

 

Are any of these issues the fault of the retiree's who follow all the rules?

 

No they aren't.

 

Thailand can change the rules whenever they want to and that affect's all expats.

 

The bad thing is Thai people can move to most countries in the world and they don't have to do any of the things they force expats to do in Thailand.

 

Some people on a fixed income don't have the choice to just pack up and move.

 

These changes are being brought about by a military govt that doesn't seem to be friendly toward expats.

 

There were none of these issues when TS or his Sister was in charge

 

So darn straight, these folks have a reason to complain.

 

 

 

 

[bwpage3]

On 1/14/2020 at 1:53 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Most of us who live in Thailand decided to live here. Some of us checked out many details of Thailand before we moved. Other just stayed after a holiday.

I think first of all we should not live in Thailand if we don't like the country, the people, the weather, the overall situation. I.e. some people complain that it's hot all the time. My answer is: accept it or move to another place.

With the weather it is obvious that the weather won't change because some farangs don't like it. But there are many other things which won't change. Accept it.

And another thing what I think we should accept is that Thais won't change because some farangs don't like it. That's like anywhere else in this world. In which countries to the people who make the rules care about the few foreigners who moved to that country?

And then there is the big difference between trying to change something and moaning about things. Some time ago I made a computer program which printed information into official Thai forms. Some of these forms had horrible formatting like a lot of space for a house number and very little space for a name. I pointed that out to the person I knew and asked them if maybe they want to think about changing these forms. They didn't want to change them. Ok, accepted. And I don't moan about it. Case closed.

 

It seems here on Thai Visa are many people who moan about lots of things. Do they really want to change things? How often do we have posts like: I don't like xyz, which government agency should I contact to change that? Do we have posts like that?

It seems TV has lots of posts like: I spend hours trying to do this and that. Those stupid people don't understand what I want. Why is it not the way I am used to from back home? Why don't those Thais treat me like I am someone important? I think I am important. And why don't they all speak perfectly English in the Thai government? I explain it to them in English and they don't understand. Why don't they learn English? ...

 

I don't apologize everything here and lots of things need improvement. But moaning won't improve it.

 

And IHMO if people are not happy here then it would be great if they look for another place. Likely they will also be unhappy in that new place because they are just people who like to moan. But at least after they moved to Kazakhstan or Timbuktu they can moan in the local forums over there.

All the govt has to do, with the stroke of a pen, is change things and you/everyone  will be moaning too.

 

Let's see, how about 5,000,000 baht each year for a VISA?

 

How about 20thb/US $1?

 

Thailand is not rational and anyone that accepts that it is, well there is no hope for those folks.

 

Rules change for no logical reason, which affect these people's lives and make it harder

 

20-30 years ago NO ONE predicted Thailand would be the way it is today.

 

Wait another 10 years.

 

The rules COULD change and force everyone out.

 

 

 

 

[bwpage3]

3 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

What is wrong with the simple, sensible advice to leave if you don't like it here ? 

How many posters cannot afford to leave and have no where to go?

 

If I was trapped, I would complain as well.

[Salerno]

4 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

If I was trapped, I would complain as well.

Complain about what; inadequate planning/finances?

[bwpage3]

2 hours ago, khunPer said:

I've been staying in LoS almost 15 years now on retirement extensions, and during that period I've seen more improvements than obstacles; even it sounds like the opposite when reading some of the threads in Thaivisa forums.

 

Those os us expats that OP, and probably also others, might view as "forum regulars who seem to defend everything Thai authorities do and/or criticize every critic", might rather be some that has noticed the many improvements over some time, and also appreciate that regulations and rules are followed for the benefit of »good guys in, bad guys out«, as a well media-profiled immigration boss stated it.

 

Where I stay in Thailand the authorities have improved a lot in efficiency – not the least the local immigration office, in spite of slightly more complex rules the later years – with just a bit of preparation most things are handled easy and smooth. Thaivisa forums, especially the local ones, are very good help for being able to prepare whatever needed, and to understand the procedures in advance.

Furthermore the infrastructure improves a little all the time – in spite of rapid development, where many needs arise in many areas, so it can be difficult to keep up – even the improvements could be made faster og better planned, they are still improvements. I'm not arguing against that it could be done better when compared to one's home country, or some other places out in the big World.

 

Honestly, I don't understand people, who feel so unhappy in LoS that they need to complain like an ever lasting blues, continue to stay here, instead of either moving home – where everything seems to be much better, as it's often compared to when telling about how bad things are in Thailand – or move on to another place, where things might function better.

????

You have been in Thailand for 15 years and point out efficiency at your local office as the only example?

 

Infrastructure has improved? That is complete BS.

 

You have been there too long and don't see all the negative changes

 

I just returned after not being there for 6 years and drove from Bangkok deep into Isaan

 

I can tell you the infrastructure is worse, traffic is worse, air pollution is worse. Thai people's attitudes are worse.

 

Saraburi has so many cement plants there is a brown, choking haze in the sky everyday.

 

Floods or droughts. Take you choice.

 

Baht down, costs up.

 

I think there are many people just like you, that have no other choices, so they sing the praises of Thailand no matter what the facts are.

 

Thailand is NOT improving no matter what anyone says.

 

If after 15 years the only thing you can say is the efficiency of your local office improved, well, that's no improvement at all.

 

 

 

 

[ChaiyaTH]

9 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Complain about what; inadequate planning/finances?

What a silly comment without any thinking. I guess you live a very lonely and bored life with few friends to guarantee that for yourself. 

 

Many ppl came with plenty, invested a decade ago and had very adequate planning. The army government however, had different plans. 

 

Then you do end with almost nothing and only a fixed income.

 

Seems that many Americans think like you too, as they have little social welfare pensions but a lot cash and credit. Then it's easy to drop 400-800k too.

Edited January 17, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Thailand is NOT improving no matter what anyone says.

If after 15 years the only thing you can say is the efficiency of your local office improved, well, that's no improvement at all.

Gotta agree with you, the only thing I've noticed improve over the last ten years is internet speed.

Everything else has got worse.

[Salerno]

12 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

What a silly comment without any thinking.

Diddums, did I hit a nerve? Please point out where it's wrong.

 

14 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

I guess you live a very lonely and bored life with few friends to guarantee that for yourself. 

Considering you wouldn't know me from a bar of soap ^ is a silly comment and in fact makes no sense whatsoever.

 

15 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Many ppl came with plenty, invested a decade ago and had very adequate planning. The army government however, had different plans.

 

Then you do end with almost nothing and only a fixed income.

Other than having a certain amount in the bank for longer, what exactly has the government done that has affected people financially to such an extent they "are trapped"? If they can't afford to comply with Thai regulations and can't afford to go home then I think our definition of "adequate planning" are misaligned.

 

19 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Seems that many Americans think like you too, as they have little social welfare pensions but a lot cash and credit. Then it's easy to drop 400-800k too.

Huh?

[SkyFax]

Gee I wish I was an ex-expat so I could be sitting in Florida or somewhere else complaining about how bad everything is and still might get worse in Thailand where I am not. If I didn't like it here in Thailand I would leave so maybe that just makes me a non-ex-expat.

[473geo]

1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:

All the govt has to do, with the stroke of a pen, is change things and you/everyone  will be moaning too.

 

Let's see, how about 5,000,000 baht each year for a VISA?

 

How about 20thb/US $1?

 

Thailand is not rational and anyone that accepts that it is, well there is no hope for those folks.

 

Rules change for no logical reason, which affect these people's lives and make it harder

 

20-30 years ago NO ONE predicted Thailand would be the way it is today.

 

Wait another 10 years.

 

The rules COULD change and force everyone out.

 

 

 

 

Good grief now we have progressed to 'predictive' moaning about things that may or may not happen!!!

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:

Rules change for no logical reason, which affect these people's lives and make it harder

 

20-30 years ago NO ONE predicted Thailand would be the way it is today.

 

Wait another 10 years.

 

The rules COULD change and force everyone out.

That reminds me of the UK.

Please ready above and exchange Thailand with UK...

 

Personally I don't expect that there are no changes. There are constant changes. The biggest change in Thailand seems to be that now regulations are enforced which nobody cared about for a long time. And things like health insurance make sense. I know it's hard for the people who don't have one and even harder for the people who can't get one. But from the Thai point of view it makes sense.

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:

Come on man, nothing to complain of?

 

Did you just move to Thailand yesterday?

 

Many of these folks moved to Thailand to retire only to see a myriad of issues, get worse and worse and worse over the years.

 

These issues like the baht rate, visa's, insurance, air pollution, droughts, floods, rising costs directly affect these folks.

 

Are any of these issues the fault of the retiree's who follow all the rules?

 

No they aren't.

 

Thailand can change the rules whenever they want to and that affect's all expats.

 

The bad thing is Thai people can move to most countries in the world and they don't have to do any of the things they force expats to do in Thailand.

 

Some people on a fixed income don't have the choice to just pack up and move.

 

These changes are being brought about by a military govt that doesn't seem to be friendly toward expats.

 

There were none of these issues when TS or his Sister was in charge

 

So darn straight, these folks have a reason to complain.

 

 

 

 

No, 23 years here and I know exactly how things work. What people here, including you, do not understand is that it´s another country and different rules. Leave your reality in home when you move to Thailand, then it will look fine. If you do not like it or fit in, follow the stream of complainers to Vietnam.

[Straight8]

Love is almost all gone.. slipping day by day

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, emptypockets said:

And the vast majority, nay, overwhelming majority are not citizens and rightly have no say in how the country is run. Check your passport and see what length of permission to stay you have.

About says it all, why the majority of posters are guests.

[gearbox]

3 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

The bad thing is Thai people can move to most countries in the world and they don't have to do any of the things they force expats to do in Thailand

 

 

No they can't. To get an Australian retirement visa you need to bring in the equipment of 15 mil baht and show yearly income of 1.2 mil baht. How that compares with Thailand's 800k requirement?

[gearbox]

4 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I enjoy living in Thailand, but what officials might do with us in the future is always hanging over our heads and that isn't a great way to live. And while I do enjoy being here, it is getting increasingly frustrating to know that in my native UK so many things are far better quality and now cheaper than in Thailand. Paying more for poorer quality doesn't always sit well.

If I follow your logic there would be heaps of retirees applying now for UK retirement visas. How many foreigners have retired there?

[gearbox]

4 hours ago, khunPer said:

I agree in the beginning of your post, about immigration, as many posts and new threads seems to be about immigration problems.

 

And yes, a number of us are kind of "financial migrants" as we might find a better lifestyle here, than we can afford at home, at least for similar level of funds. So in a way a number of us are kind of trapped, i.e. can manage to stay, but would find it hard to leave; even moving on might, if not impossible then, be unpleasant.

 

But I don't think moaning solves anything, if one is financially trapped...????

"Financial migrants" is a bit of understatement. Quite a few seem to be more like "financial refugees". Coming from mainly the lower class from their respective countries, without accumulated significant assets and relying on ever shrinking and deteriorating government pensions. Aged way past they prime earning years. In short, more or less unable to change their financial circumstances in any significant ways, and totally exposed to external factors like the baht exchange rates or government visa changes. Not valid only for Thailand, pretty much about any other country as well. Now add to this deteriorating health, health insurance requirements, and change in family relationships due to farang not being able to provide as much as before.

 

Totally understandable that people may start whinging a lot, but the sad reality is that is not going to change any of the adverse factors they are complaining about...the only thing remotely positive which may happen is the baht exchange rate to move favorably, and depending on the size of move it could be a lot of help.