Hungarian pensioner dies in the cells at Suvarnabhumi as he awaits deportation

[steven100]

2 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

60 aint that old really

quite right ....  far too young to go anyway.

[SupermarineS6B]

Gave him a meal...... My A%$# !   750 bht a night in detention and the meals come from the airport shops, Rice and whatever's on the go and a bottle of water....... Not free.......RIP old fellah......

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, Golden Triangle said:

For a start it's called 'Duty of Care' something that is sadly lacking in Thailand even though they are supposed to be signed up to various Human Rights conventions.

 

That's why you have 40 to 60 prisoners to a cell in the prisons and all sorts of other abuses, wake up dude and stop being another apologist for this sadly lacking country. And yes, I have been to visit someone in jail here so I know the conditions.

Detention is not same as jail. Not very much read in, are you?

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, Tulak said:

...his belongings taken away from him and never opened his mouth about any diabetes or a need for medication...

 

Seriously, do you think there was some serious attempt to ask him at all?

They can not guess he have diabetes. He have to tell them. Did he do that? That´s the big question.

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

1 hour ago, Golden Triangle said:

For a start it's called 'Duty of Care' something that is sadly lacking in Thailand even though they are supposed to be signed up to various Human Rights conventions.

 

That's why you have 40 to 60 prisoners to a cell in the prisons and all sorts of other abuses, wake up dude and stop being another apologist for this sadly lacking country. And yes, I have been to visit someone in jail here so I know the conditions.

Detention is not same as jail. Not very much read in, are you?

 

The duty of care remains the same, in jail, in prison or in the IDC detention. Basic human rights must still be followed. We all know Thailand doesn’t really pay attention to any of this though. 

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

2 hours ago, Tulak said:

...his belongings taken away from him and never opened his mouth about any diabetes or a need for medication...

 

Seriously, do you think there was some serious attempt to ask him at all?

They can not guess he have diabetes. He have to tell them. Did he do that? That´s the big question.

 

Quite right, we have no idea if he told them or not. The dead cannot testify. 

 

We don’t even know if the ‘Diabetes’ issue comes into a play at all with this case. 

 

That said, do you really think anyone reliant on medication for their wouldn’t protest a lack of access to said medication? 

Thus, it would be a very fair assumption to make that anyone reliant on medication would speak up about it upon incarceration. 

 

There are too many unknowns until one of the others in the cells speaks out. 

 

 

[Golden Triangle]

12 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Detention is not same as jail. Not very much read in, are you?

You really have no clue do you ? Plenty of people have started threads on here re: IDC and also the detention centre at Swampy, you are a sad case indeed.

[Golden Triangle]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Quite right, we have no idea if he told them or not. The dead cannot testify. 

 

We don’t even know if the ‘Diabetes’ issue comes into a play at all with this case. 

 

That said, do you really think anyone reliant on medication for their wouldn’t protest a lack of access to said medication? 

Thus, it would be a very fair assumption to make that anyone reliant on medication would speak up about it upon incarceration. 

 

There are too many unknowns until one of the others in the cells speaks out. 

 

 

I agree with with what you say, I personally have to take medication everyday the main one is for my BP, without that and the stress of detention would be a very bad mix & I would not hesitate to bring that need to the attention of the authorities, we have no idea what the Hungarian guy did or didn't do. It is still a very sad state of affairs. 

[simon43]

Quote

 

...If he had been telling them, they would have let him have his medicin.
 

 

 

AFAIK, (from my previous work as a police volunteer in Thailand for many years), medicines are not allowed for prisoners, even if you inform the prison authorities that you are on medication and will die without it etc.

 

That certainly was my experience with several prisoners, (they didn't die, but their heart/diabetes medication was confiscated).

 

I'm happy to be corrected on this ????

Edited January 27, 2020 by simon43

[4MyEgo]

6 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

I personally have to take medication everyday the main one is for my BP

I hazard a guess it was raised a few times here from a certain poster ?

 

It's sad to hear someone so young passed in detention of all places, that said, as much as I would love to point the finger, I have to keep it bent until we know more, although, there is no harm in speculating, although posting it can have a few curley replies elevating ones blood pressure, hence the reason I am staying neutral for now, only because a hell of a lot of other things bother me at times, so why add to them when there is not enough information, blood check, 120/80 perfect ????

 

[Matzzon]

4 hours ago, Scot123 said:

Wow, just like you making up things to justify your narrative. I think many expats have a very good understanding about Thai immigration and how it works, many expats have visited Thai prisons to aid expats, there are many expats who know people who have fallen foul of immigration and every expat knows immigration due to their archaic 90 day reporting and annual applications for extention. Is it more or less likely they never gave him his medication? HELL YES. 

And you think they can guess he need medication. Did he ask to get it?

 

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, Golden Triangle said:

You really have no clue do you ? Plenty of people have started threads on here re: IDC and also the detention centre at Swampy, you are a sad case indeed.

Doesn´t matter how many threads is started. You still do not have enough facts in this case to judge.

[gk10002000]

Anybody have some first hand accounts of that place?  All cells private or are they jam packed like I think I read the detention cells in Bangkok are?  Any CCTV monitoring of at least the hallway so one could see if anybody went into or out of a cell(s)?  Couldn't find a description or a location on any online airport map

[Thechook]

Had been dead for eight hours.  So no welfare checks conducted on him for 8 hours.  

[jack7106]

8 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Anybody have some first hand accounts of that place?  All cells private or are they jam packed like I think I read the detention cells in Bangkok are?  Any CCTV monitoring of at least the hallway so one could see if anybody went into or out of a cell(s)?  Couldn't find a description or a location on any online airport map

The place is a living cesspit of humanity mainly occupied by African internees who have no money and or access to embassy help.

It is run by private security contractors and not the government, nor from my experience does it have any government oversight????????

As a previous poster alluded to “gave him a meal” – absolute <deleted> as you have to pay for your board and meals are not included unless you have money from which they purchased from the food stores located within the airports.

The corruption and conditions in there are only fit for animals that you dislike in the extreme.

Corrupt guards and compliant airlines such as Thai airlines are part and parcel of this disgusting mess.

If you have no money, you will not be able to access phone calls/Internet, food becomes a problem for something edible and there is a severe lack of embassy access if you are from a country with no empathy representation.

 

They should be an Independent audit into this absolutely disgusting representation of Thailand’s way of handling immigration problems within privately run airport jails????????‍♂️????????????????????

 

The women’s and men’s section are also open and accessible to each other – <deleted> – pretty bloody scary place to be????????‍♂️????????????????????

Edited January 28, 2020 by jack7106

[SupermarineS6B]

39 minutes ago, jack7106 said:

The place is a living cesspit of humanity mainly occupied by African internees who have no money and or access to embassy help.

It is run by private security contractors and not the government, nor from my experience does it have any government oversight????????

As a previous poster alluded to “gave him a meal” – absolute <deleted> as you have to pay for your board and meals are not included unless you have money from which they purchased from the food stores located within the airports.

The corruption and conditions in there are only fit for animals that you dislike in the extreme.

Corrupt guards and compliant airlines such as Thai airlines are part and parcel of this disgusting mess.

If you have no money, you will not be able to access phone calls/Internet, food becomes a problem for something edible and there is a severe lack of embassy access if you are from a country with no empathy representation.

 

They should be an Independent audit into this absolutely disgusting representation of Thailand’s way of handling immigration problems within privately run airport jails????????‍♂️????????????????????

 

The women’s and men’s section are also open and accessible to each other – <deleted> – pretty bloody scary place to be????????‍♂️????????????????????

On the head........... Stinks of urine as well....... 

[Tulak]

13 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

AFAIK, (from my previous work as a police volunteer in Thailand for many years), medicines are not allowed for prisoners, even if you inform the prison authorities that you are on medication and will die without it etc.

 

That certainly was my experience with several prisoners, (they didn't die, but their heart/diabetes medication was confiscated).

 

I'm happy to be corrected on this ????

good to hear from somebody who actually has first hand experience - and what you said certainly renders many other posts invalid

[jack7106]

1 hour ago, Tulak said:

good to hear from somebody who actually has first hand experience - and what you said certainly renders many other posts invalid

First hand experience included along with graft/corruption and pay-as-you-go entitlements if you’re lucky enough to have any money. Many of the African detainees have been in there for well over six months and have no money to pay for a return airfare or money to provide for their phone/Internet access or decent eatable food.

They can only try and access the UNHCR which are about as useful as a cigarette tray on a motorbike – corruption extends extremely well into United Nations organisations.

From my experience NGO’s weren’t interested in helping them either - catch 22 position.

These unfortunate African nationalities have no representation whatsoever and are lucky if they are given a rice bowl and some water each day in absolutely cramped and filthy conditions – firsthand experience courtesy of Thai Airways who respond to valid criticism deplorably????????‍♂️????????????????????
I am grateful that Australia has an embassy that when needed in extreme circumstances will help their citizens escape fifth world conditions????????????

[mindfulness]

No doubt a Thai Dish loaded with sugar ! when will they ^%^*# wake up. Utter, utter rampant unawareness and ignorance ! 

 

and they wonder, or just cannot figure out why there are so many road fatalities and egotistical murders from jealousy ! 

[sallecc]

3 hours ago, jack7106 said:

The place is a living cesspit of humanity mainly occupied by African internees who have no money and or access to embassy help.

It is run by private security contractors and not the government, nor from my experience does it have any government oversight????????

As a previous poster alluded to “gave him a meal” – absolute <deleted> as you have to pay for your board and meals are not included unless you have money from which they purchased from the food stores located within the airports.

The corruption and conditions in there are only fit for animals that you dislike in the extreme.

Corrupt guards and compliant airlines such as Thai airlines are part and parcel of this disgusting mess.

If you have no money, you will not be able to access phone calls/Internet, food becomes a problem for something edible and there is a severe lack of embassy access if you are from a country with no empathy representation.

 

They should be an Independent audit into this absolutely disgusting representation of Thailand’s way of handling immigration problems within privately run airport jails????????‍♂️????????????????????

 

The women’s and men’s section are also open and accessible to each other – <deleted> – pretty bloody scary place to be????????‍♂️????????????????????

I'm pleasantly surprised that immigration-loving weirdo Matzzon didn't jump in to bash this post, as he usually does...

 

IDC is terrible place with many sad stories (death of beaten USA overstayer comes to mind)... RIP Hungarian fella.

[richard_smith237]

15 hours ago, Matzzon said:

16 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

You really have no clue do you ? Plenty of people have started threads on here re: IDC and also the detention centre at Swampy, you are a sad case indeed.

Doesn´t matter how many threads is started. You still do not have enough facts in this case to judge.

 

Matzzon... Do you really have enough facts to defend?.... this is just speculation, an open discussion thread whereby we are discussing assumptions, opinions, based on, in most cases, second hand encounters of someones experiences in IDC. 

 

Many on this thread are of the assumption that the deceased would mention that he has diabetes and needs his medication. 

Many on this thread are also of the assumption that the request for this medication may have been ignored. 

You are of the assumption that the deceased might not have mentioned his need for medication. He may not, but why would someone not request this?

You are also of the assumption that if a request for medication had been made it may have been granted. You really think the guards etc at the IDC care enough to respond to such a request?

 

We’ll never know. But in this discussion we have views and opinions from experience posters who have spent time in Thailand, have heard of many of the horrors from the IDC cells. 

 

I don’t know for a fact, but based on stories of IDC the probability of medication being denied is quite high. 

 

We also don't know if the deceased passed away due to complications related to diabetes.

 

However, as the topic has meandered towards medication being withheld and the critical risks and human rights violations a number of interesting points have been made, which quite frankly could only be argued against by someone so blinded by their opinion they fail to see the gargantuan flaws in the IDC system when it comes to human safety. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by richard_smith237

[Matzzon]

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Matzzon... Do you really have enough facts to defend?

Where have I been defending. The only thing I´ve done is posting about another possibility. Please point out where I am defending anything?

[Sticky Wicket]

On 1/27/2020 at 10:45 AM, Matzzon said:

Sorry, I am lost here. I don´t know what you mean to say with this quote? Yes, of course I would do that. It´s exactly what I am posting about. If he had been telling them, they would have let him have his medicin. What are you on about? Do you think he told them and they laughed at him and throw him to die in the cell?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/european-aristocrat-dies-in-notorious-thai-jail-412202.html

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, Sticky Wicket said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/european-aristocrat-dies-in-notorious-thai-jail-412202.html

Totally irrelevant Mr Sticky! We are not talking about Klongprem here. However, just go on and don´t let me disturb you.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Matzzon... Do you really have enough facts to defend?

Where have I been defending. The only thing I´ve done is posting about another possibility. Please point out where I am defending anything?

 

OK, fair enough... If I’m not mistaken, the other possibility you have pointed out is the possibility that 'the Deceased, a diabetic did not announce to the IDC staff that he was diabetic and needed medication’...

 

A viable argument, he may not have. 

 

An equally, perhaps more viable argument, he may have, but you’ve put that argument down because you seem to be of the opinion that the IDC guards value human life and respect the medical needs of detainees, which is somewhat of an overly optimistic opinion given what we know of the IDC. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

1 hour ago, Sticky Wicket said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/european-aristocrat-dies-in-notorious-thai-jail-412202.html

Totally irrelevant Mr Sticky! We are not talking about Klongprem here. However, just go on and don´t let me disturb you.

 

It's not totally irrelevant as the article highlights prevalence of human rights violations in the Thai prison system, it doesn’t take much to draw parallels to the IDC. Additionally so the are numerous reports / first hand tales of the Thai IDC being worse than the Thai Prison system. 

 

 

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, jack7106 said:

The place is a living cesspit of humanity mainly occupied by African internees who have no money and or access to embassy help.

It is run by private security contractors and not the government, nor from my experience does it have any government oversight????????

As a previous poster alluded to “gave him a meal” – absolute <deleted> as you have to pay for your board and meals are not included unless you have money from which they purchased from the food stores located within the airports.

The corruption and conditions in there are only fit for animals that you dislike in the extreme.

Corrupt guards and compliant airlines such as Thai airlines are part and parcel of this disgusting mess.

If you have no money, you will not be able to access phone calls/Internet, food becomes a problem for something edible and there is a severe lack of embassy access if you are from a country with no empathy representation.

 

They should be an Independent audit into this absolutely disgusting representation of Thailand’s way of handling immigration problems within privately run airport jails????????‍♂️????????????????????

 

The women’s and men’s section are also open and accessible to each other – <deleted> – pretty bloody scary place to be????????‍♂️????????????????????

 

You are describing the IDC (correctly by all accounts)

 

But that is not where this happened.

 

Nor did it happen at a jail.

 

It happened in the detention room at Swampy airport.  From prior reports here,  large room with some bunk beds, food is provided (but there is a charge) and can also pay the guards to go get you things from airport shops. People are allowed to have their phones in there. I would assume, but do not know for sure, that they would also have their wallets/purses and possibly their carry on bags as well, this is a place people who have been refused entry are kept until they have a flight out. People have complained it is nto very clean but nothing I have ever heard makes it sound like prison conditions and certainly not like IDC (which is worse than any prison).

 

I have not previously heard of someone being taken there as part if a deportation before. Usually kept at IDC and then start to the airport and onto a flight.

 

There is no information whatsoever as to cause of death so no basis for speculating anything yet.  People do not die of diabetes in a night unless having a hypoglycemic reaction which would be likely only if insulin taken and then no food. There is no reason to think this applies, but then we really do not know.

[Salerno]

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

From prior reports here,  large room with some bunk beds

Pic from 2015:

 

Pic from 2019:

[Matzzon]

55 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

OK, fair enough... If I’m not mistaken, the other possibility you have pointed out is the possibility that 'the Deceased, a diabetic did not announce to the IDC staff that he was diabetic and needed medication’...

 

A viable argument, he may not have. 

 

An equally, perhaps more viable argument, he may have, but you’ve put that argument down because you seem to be of the opinion that the IDC guards value human life and respect the medical needs of detainees, which is somewhat of an overly optimistic opinion given what we know of the IDC. 

 

 

No, I do not think IDC guards are good caretakers. The only thing in my initial post was that it may have been a reason.

[Matzzon]

54 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

It's not totally irrelevant as the article highlights prevalence of human rights violations in the Thai prison system, it doesn’t take much to draw parallels to the IDC. Additionally so the are numerous reports / first hand tales of the Thai IDC being worse than the Thai Prison system. 

 

 

That is not a fact. What is a fact is that Klongprem is one of the worlds biggest hell holes.