Brexit trade deal clash: UK and EU spar over rules

[webfact]

Brexit trade deal clash: UK and EU spar over rules

By Elizabeth Piper and John Chalmers

 

Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson participates in a workshop with children from the Richard Avenue Primary School prior to chairing a cabinet meeting at the National Glass Centre at the University of Sunderland, Sunderland, Britain January 31, 2020. Paul Ellis/Pool via REUTERS

 

LONDON/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union and Britain clashed over a post-Brexit trade deal on Monday, with the two sides setting out very different visions of a future relationship that could result in the most distant of ties.

 

Almost three days since Britain officially left the EU, both sides presented their aims, with the question of whether London will sign up to EU rules to ensure frictionless trade shaping up to be the defining argument of the negotiations.

 

Both want to secure a trade agreement, but Britain has set a deadline of the end of the year and the EU has warned that if Prime Minister Boris Johnson wants a no-tariff, no-quota deal, he will have to sign up to its rules to ensure fair competition.

 

Johnson said he would not do that, in a speech that harked back to Britain's past trading successes, promising that his government would again be a champion of free trade and jealously guard his country's new-found "sovereignty".

 

"Humanity needs ... some country ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles and leap into the phone booth and emerge with his cloak flowing as the supercharged champion of the right of populations of the earth to buy and sell freely among each other," he said, referring to Superman's alternate character.

 

Saying Britain was ready "for that role", he went on to say London was ready to accept an agreement with the EU, the world's biggest trade bloc, similar to that enjoyed by Canada, whose rules are not aligned with those of the EU.

 

The European Union and Britain clashed over a post-Brexit trade deal on Monday. Prime Minister Boris Johnson insists he need not sign up to the bloc's rules and Brussels warns of tariffs and quotas unless he does. Francesca Lynagh reports.

 

"There is no need for a free trade agreement to involve accepting EU rules on competition policy, subsidies, social protection, the environment or anything similar, any more than the EU should be obliged to accept UK rules," Johnson said.

 

Promising to maintain "the highest standards", he said that if such a deal was not achievable "then our trade will have to be based on our existing Withdrawal Agreement with the EU".

 

"The choice is emphatically not 'deal or no-deal'. The question is whether we agree a trading relationship with the EU comparable to Canada's – or more like Australia's," he said in the Painted Hall at the Greenwich Royal Naval College where grand 18th Century paintings celebrate Britain's naval power.

 

At the moment, much of EU-Australia trade runs along basic World Trade Organization rules, though there are specific agreements for certain goods. Australia is in the process of negotiating a trade deal with the 27-nation EU.

 

AMBITIOUS DEAL

The acceptance of what for many experts is little more than a so-called no-deal Brexit sent sterling lower by more than 1%.

 

With the talks not due to start until March, the tough talk could be part of a negotiating strategy for both sides.

 

But for Johnson, according to sources, December's election, which handed him a large majority in parliament, was an endorsement of his policy of putting Britain's right to set its own rules and to trade with other nations above the demands of business for continued frictionless trade.

 

The EU, in turn, does not want to see Britain undercut its rules.

 

Brussels says it wants an ambitious zero-tariffs and zero-quotas trade deal, but has been clear this will be conditional on open and fair competition between the two, the EU's Brexit negotiator said.

 

Michel Barnier, unveiling the European Commission's mandate for talks with Britain on their future relationship, said there should be a level playing field over the long term on social, state aid and environmental standards.

 

"You cannot accuse us of a lack of ambition," he told a news conference in Brussels. "First and foremost, we will defend the interests of the union, its citizens and its businesses."

 

"We'll continue to prepare for a situation where no deal is being arrived at. We certainly don't want that to happen. We'll work to avoid that, but if we can't manage a deal by the end of the year there will be a cliff-edge on many fronts.

 

"There will some areas where there'll be no other solution. I'm thinking about trade and fisheries here," Barnier added.

 

Touching on one of the thorniest parts of the future negotiations, Barnier said a free trade agreement must include a deal on fisheries that would give reciprocal assess to waters, and conditions on these must be established by July 1, 2020.

 

"We are ready to offer all this even though we know that there will be strong competition between the UK, our immediate neighbor, and the EU in the future," he said.

 

(Editing by Catherine Evans)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-02-04

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[vogie]

What the EU are asking from the UK is totally unacceptable, the only thing Barnier didn't ask for was the crown jewels. So it looks like we will be leaving with the Australia Deal, which when a reporter was asked what it was he said "its no deal but just sounds better.

[TheDark]

11 minutes ago, webfact said:

"We'll continue to prepare for a situation where no deal is being arrived at. We certainly don't want that to happen. We'll work to avoid that, but if we can't manage a deal by the end of the year there will be a cliff-edge on many fronts.

It might be best to simply admit, that no-deal Brexit is going to happen. 

 

 

[TheDark]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

What the EU are asking from the UK is totally unacceptable, the only thing Barnier didn't ask for was the crown jewels. So it looks like we will be leaving with the Australia Deal, which when a reporter was asked what it was he said "its no deal but just sounds better.

EU can ask whatever it wants. So can UK as well. 

 

This is heading towards no-deal brexit.

[vogie]

Just now, TheDark said:

EU can ask whatever it wants. So can UK as well. 

 

This is heading towards no-deal brexit.

Isn't that what I said?

[petermik]

The EU can take a hike...the boot is on the right foot now and we will not be bullied into anything that is not in our best interests....fark them I say

[smedly]

one of many I suspect

 

Nissan has a golden opportunity to cut its losses at failing plants in France and Spain and gain UK market share in the event the EU refuses to get off its high horse leading to trade barriers.

 

 

The European Union wants to stifle our full potential as an independent nation. To quote our Foreign Secretary yesterday: "It just ain't happening!"

 

What we're not going to do is have the same dynamic where we're told there are red lines that must shift. Alignment is not on the negotiating table, it's not even in the negotiating room..." How great to be out of the EU with a government that means business!

 

Barnier and his masters in Brussels need to waken up, they are not dealing with the weak lying and inept disfunctional Traitor May and her remainer team Hammond Grieve Gauke and Robbins backed by the twisted rat Burkov

 

 

 

[karibu]

What Rules we no longer have club membership  so the aren't  any rules

[smedly]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

What the EU are asking from the UK is totally unacceptable, the only thing Barnier didn't ask for was the crown jewels. So it looks like we will be leaving with the Australia Deal, which when a reporter was asked what it was he said "its no deal but just sounds better.

What I find astonishing is Barniers omission to mention the huge UK market they sell into with a 93b deficit in their favor - what is this man smoking

 

I think the EU is sinking so fast they will do anything to bring us with them - even if that means a trade war with the UK and trying to do as much damage as possible

 

Lets not forget who is pulling barniers puppet strings - Verhofstat

 

If this continues I can see Barnier stepping down 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, smedly said:

What I find astonishing is Barniers omission to mention the huge UK market they sell into with a 93b deficit in their favor - what is this man smoking

 

I think the EU is sinking so fast they will do anything to bring us with them - even if that means a trade war with the UK and trying to do as much damage as possible

 

Lets not forget who is pulling barniers puppet strings - Verhofstat

 

If this continues I can see Barnier stepping down 

Yes and we are not asking the EU to conform to our standards, which in many cases is far superior to the EUs.

 

With over a million jobs at stake over the water with a no deal, the EU needs to get real and stop playing the great I am.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes and we are not asking the EU to conform to our standards, which in many cases is far superior to the EUs.

 

With over a million jobs at stake over the water with a no deal, the EU needs to get real and stop playing the great I am.

Because of course there are no British jobs at stake.

[JonnyF]

This is why I wanted the divorce payment to be payable only on signing a decent trade deal.

 

Now the EU have their cash they have predictably reverted to being completely unreasonable again. Alignment is not possible, if the EU insist then we can leave No Deal, or "Australia ++" if that sounds better.

 

We should refuse to be dragged down with their failing project. Hopefully Boris maintains this stance or maybe hardens it a bit more.

[samran]

Where is this ‘Australian’ Trade deal stuff coming from? No such thing exits between Australia and the EU. 
 

Sounds like another factless sound bite which the usual suspects are happy to regurgitate. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by samran

[talahtnut]

42 minutes ago, webfact said:

"We'll continue to prepare for a situation where no deal is being arrived at. We certainly don't want that to happen. We'll work to avoid that, but if we can't manage a deal by the end of the year there will be a cliff-edge on many fronts.

Yeah, Barmier, mind your cliff edge, mate, the

tide is turning and there is a strong undercurrent

of contempt for your centrist institutions, and

policy decisions made by unelected bureacracy

that has been concentrating wealth and control

to the few, and austerity to the population.

 

[tomacht8]

This is all just hot nationalist PR air for the voters servants. First show strength, then look where the pain-free approaches are for common damage limitation.

At the end of the year there will be only losers - the population - on both sides.

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by tomacht8

[shadowofacloud]

31 minutes ago, petermik said:

The EU can take a hike...the boot is on the right foot now and we will not be bullied into anything that is not in our best interests....fark them I say

 

Yes, yes, and the Royal Yacht Britannia will sail the high seas again bringing new fame and glory to the empire, trade deals will flood London, with countries literally queuing around the corner of no 10. They will beg and wallow in the mire just to have the privilege of trading with the independent, powerful and mighty UK.

 

Time to wake up now and face the hangover.

 

The UK has become a complete and utter farce over the last 4 years. A pathetic joke. The country is in a completely losing position and will have to accept whatever scraps the EU or other countries throw at it. Or face decades of barely making do.

 

The main issue here is that BJ and his friends in manor houses do not care - the "austerity" measures from the last decade simply allowed these pigs to get even fatter, at the cost of the common man. And it will continue this way - widespread exploitation, back yo 19th century, back to gin lane (cheap booze from Tesco will keep the nation happy, no doubt).

 

I had to travel to the UK for work last week... Compared to my phd times in Lodnon, some 15 years ago, the country feels totally broken. Poverty is everywhere, high streets dying, people subdued and depressed, rough sleeping rampant. But you've got yer national pride and "sovereignty". Utter tosh. I am really sorry for you guys.

 

Here's a good commentary (from The Guardian, so obviously "fake news"):

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/03/boris-johnson-weak-brexit-uk

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, shadowofacloud said:

 

Yes, yes, and the Royal Yacht Britannia will sail the high seas again bringing new fame and glory to the empire, trade deals will flood London, with countries literally queuing around the corner of no 10. They will beg and wallow in the mire just to have the privilege of trading with the independent, powerful and mighty UK.

 

Time to wake up now and face the hangover.

 

The UK has become a complete and utter farce over the last 4 years. A pathetic joke. The country is in a completely losing position and will have to accept whatever scraps the EU or other countries throw at it. Or face decades of barely making do.

 

The main issue here is that BJ and his friends in manor houses do not care - the "austerity" measures from the last decade simply allowed these pigs to get even fatter, at the cost of the common man. And it will continue this way - widespread exploitation, back yo 19th century, back to gin lane (cheap booze from Tesco will keep the nation happy, no doubt).

 

I had to travel to the UK for work last week... Compared to my phd times in Lodnon, some 15 years ago, the country feels totally broken. Poverty is everywhere, high streets dying, people subdued and depressed, rough sleeping rampant. But you've got yer national pride and "sovereignty". Utter tosh. I am really sorry for you guys.

 

Here's a good commentary (from The Guardian, so obviously "fake news"):

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/03/boris-johnson-weak-brexit-uk

Did you lose a bob and find a tanner this morning? Group hug from us all.

[stephenterry]

10 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

This is all just hot nationalist PR air for the voters servants. First show strength, then look where the pain-free approaches are for common damage limitation.

At the end of the year there will be only losers - the population - on both sides.

 

So true. It's us poor mugs and our families that would suffer for the next decade. Higher taxes, higher prices of goods, loss of jobs, and all for what? Name one positive effect that would benefit the man in the street.  

 

But before you do, I support johnson's stance now that we have left the EU; it's quite right we stand on our own and suffer the consequences, whatever that comes to in the future. That's what you voted for, so live with it.

[izod10]

UK has the power to destroy the EU,from within.   Block fishing ,rioting will occur in western EU countries property damage,loss of life too no doubt.  Millions are invested in EU fisheries ,all about to go to rot, the EU are over a barrel  and they know it.  Pity about GBP  with Boris talking tough,    but good thing short term

[talahtnut]

4 minutes ago, shadowofacloud said:

 

Yes, yes, and the Royal Yacht Britannia will sail the high seas again bringing new fame and glory to the empire, trade deals will flood London, with countries literally queuing around the corner of no 10. They will beg and wallow in the mire just to have the privilege of trading with the independent, powerful and mighty UK.

 

Time to wake up now and face the hangover.

 

The UK has become a complete and utter farce over the last 4 years. A pathetic joke. The country is in a completely losing position and will have to accept whatever scraps the EU or other countries throw at it. Or face decades of barely making do.

 

The main issue here is that BJ and his friends in manor houses do not care - the "austerity" measures from the last decade simply allowed these pigs to get even fatter, at the cost of the common man. And it will continue this way - widespread exploitation, back yo 19th century, back to gin lane (cheap booze from Tesco will keep the nation happy, no doubt).

 

I had to travel to the UK for work last week... Compared to my phd times in Lodnon, some 15 years ago, the country feels totally broken. Poverty is everywhere, high streets dying, people subdued and depressed, rough sleeping rampant. But you've got yer national pride and "sovereignty". Utter tosh. I am really sorry for you guys.

 

Here's a good commentary (from The Guardian, so obviously "fake news"):

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/03/boris-johnson-weak-brexit-uk

Why do all you 'remain' gentlemen preach

doom and gloom? Where is your initiative,

where is your entrepreneurship? Getting

out of the EU is not a crisis, but an opportunity,

Everyone gets opportunities, its just recognizing

yours, is the trick.

 

[vogie]

44 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because of course there are no British jobs at stake.

I am not sure why you think that there will be no British jobs at stake, I think there will be. But in the end the only man that can prevent job losses is Michel Barnier and his cohorts, presenting Boris with a list as long as your arm we must adhere to before negotiations can procede is hardly a great start to the forth coming talks. 

[tomacht8]

For company managers who are dependent on exports and mass transactions, it is now time to position themselves at the latest and to realign their investment-, personnel-, process- and financial plans. Anyone who needs 400+ million potential customers to be able to work profitably will expand their capacities in the EU. If 60 million potential customers are enough, they only need to adjust there capacities.

Edited February 4, 2020 by tomacht8

[samran]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

I am not sure why you think that there will be no British jobs at stake, I think there will be. But in the end the only man that can prevent job losses is Michel Barnier and his cohorts, presenting Boris with a list as long as your arm we must adhere to before negotiations can procede is hardly a great start to the forth coming talks. 

You’ve left the EU and still blaming them for what comes next! 555

[vogie]

1 minute ago, samran said:

You’ve left the EU and still blaming them for what comes next! 555

Straight boomerangs and pink kangaroos.????

[samran]

Just now, vogie said:

Straight boomerangs and pink kangaroos.????

I don’t need to know what drugs you are taking! 

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, talahtnut said:

Why do all you 'remain' gentlemen preach

doom and gloom? Where is your initiative,

where is your entrepreneurship? Getting

out of the EU is not a crisis, but an opportunity,

Everyone gets opportunities, its just recognizing

yours, is the trick.

 

As is well known, faith and hope can move mountains. But if I would hit 27 of my trading partners or 50% of my export business in the face ... that will be never good for my own business.

Arrogance pride comes before the deep fall.

[Logosone]

2 hours ago, shadowofacloud said:

 

I had to travel to the UK for work last week... Compared to my phd times in Lodnon, some 15 years ago, the country feels totally broken. Poverty is everywhere, high streets dying, people subdued and depressed, rough sleeping rampant.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/03/boris-johnson-weak-brexit-uk

 

Exactly my experience when I went to the UK the last time. I had to go for just a day so I looked at a map and for some reason picked Harlow to stay in, because of easy commuting I think, close to London.

 

I was absolutely stunned at the deprivation, I thought I stepped into Bagdad city centre or some deprived third world country. There were only fried chicken shops, some arab gentlemen and most stores had put up boarding. Presumably to protect against looting. Beggars and rough sleepers everywhere. You could feel and breathe the poverty and deprivation.

 

I was so glad to leave.

 

I also feel sorry for the UK, I really do.

[Rimmer]

A hateful and most derogatory post and reply has been removed

[izod10]

1 hour ago, tomacht8 said:

As is well known, faith and hope can move mountains. But if I would hit 27 of my trading partners or 50% of my export business in the face ... that will be never good for my own business.

Arrogance pride comes before the deep fall.

C.rap

      27  of which rough count 22 are hangers on,maybe 23,    buying nothing,selling everything if they can.

    Gone gone gone   good riddance   no more   UK growing faster than Germany even     not bad   but more joy to come.

    Who the hell could give a rats a.rse to inner city lives,  could not give a toss about any of them

 

[talahtnut]

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Exactly my experience when I went to the UK the last time. I had to go for just a day so I looked at a map and for some reason picked Harlow to stay in, because of easy commuting I think, close to London.

 

I was absolutely stunned at the deprivation, I thought I stepped into Bagdad city centre or some deprived third world country. There were only fried chicken shops, some arab gentlemen and most stores had put up boarding. Presumably to protect against looting. Beggars and rough sleepers everywhere. You could feel and breathe the poverty and deprivation.

 

I was so glad to leave.

 

I also feel sorry for the UK, I really do.

You chose Harlow! jeeze man, its an overspill

town of London, which is Baghdad Central.

This is the unfortunate effect of uncontrolled

immigration, a result of obeying EU edict.

We are leaving the EU, not the Europeans we

love, especially your Citroen and Benz, my

daily drives in the UK.