Is it common practice for a Thai government employee to "purchase" their work contracts?

[shootrrdave]

I am married to a Thai woman who works as an administrator in an elementary school in Bangkok. She wants to transfer to Roi Et to be closer to our 6 month old daughter who is being cared for by her mother. The problem is that she must purchase a 20 year contract for 250,000 baht. This is for a job that pays 200,000 annually. Is this normal practice? If so, then how does any regular Thai afford it? Are there any workarounds for this? Are there shorter contracts perhaps (for less money)?

[samsensam]

 

i knew an american/thai couple, the thai lady's education, up to doctorate level, had been paid for/subsidised by the dept. of education and she had to work X years before she could change her job. i do know her american bf, and later husband, paid to get her out of that commitment, so it does/can happen. i'm afraid i dont know how much it cost but i guess there will be some sliding scale based on amount loaned and time already worked

[Boomer6969]

I would see  250k as a real bargain for anyone who loves his kid and wants to take care of her himself. I'd try to bargain down a bit, but not to the extent where I'd run the risk to lose a golden opportunity.

[shootrrdave]

5 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

i knew an american/thai couple, the thai lady's education, up to doctorate level, had been paid for/subsidised by the dept. of education and she had to work X years before she could change her job.

I don't think that's the case here. My wife is 40 (so any debt should be covered by now) and actually began her career in Roi Et before transferring to Bangkok. The Bangkok contract was for 6 years and expired last summer. She has stayed thus far in Bangkok at her current boss's request. I guess I need to ask her if she had to purchase the Bangkok contract. This was before I met her.

[shootrrdave]

2 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

I would see  250k as a real bargain for anyone who loves his kid and wants to take care of her himself. I'd try to bargain down a bit, but not to the extent where I'd run the risk to lose a golden opportunity. 

Oh we will pay. It will be cheaper in the long run...lol. At the prices I'm paying Air Asia for weekend flights we will break even in about 1.5 years. ????

 

My main concerns are whether this is normal practice and if so then is the price justified. 250,000 contract price for a 200,000 per year job seems high to me. That's 15 months earnings. How would any normal Thai be able to pay that? 

 

 

[darksidedog]

I have moved this from general topics where it did not belong to one covering jobs, business etc, as it is the closest I could offer without closing you down.

It is not for no reason that the global transparency index rates Thailand poorly on corruption and graft, and this seems the sort of thing that has become endemic in society. Sadly, all the time people pay it, it renews the cycle.

I strongly suspect a job, if indeed she really needs the money, could be found once back in Roi Et, at a decent salary, without the outgoings and 20 year commitment, for a similar sort of money. Good Luck regardless.

 

[jackdd]

Afaik there are two types of government workers in Thailand, "temporary" and "regular" ones.

The "regular workers" have a job with the government guaranteed for life, and have to do a request somewhere in this system if they want to work somewhere else, so that they will be transferred to the new location if there is a job available.

The "temporary workers" are basically like any person working in a private company, they have a contract and if this contract should be finished and not extended they are without a job, so i guess your wife is into such a temporary employment situation.

The 250k is pure corruption, so this is of course negotiable. You will have to compare it to what she could earn in a private company, take into account the job security and so on and decide what makes sense. That people pay for government jobs is quite common, but usually these people expect to get more money through "tips" than they paid for the position.

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by jackdd

[shootrrdave]

10 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

I have moved this from general topics where it did not belong to one covering jobs, business etc, as it is the closest I could offer without closing you down.

It is not for no reason that the global transparency index rates Thailand poorly on corruption and graft, and this seems the sort of thing that has become endemic in society. Sadly, all the time people pay it, it renews the cycle.

I strongly suspect a job, if indeed she really needs the money, could be found once back in Roi Et, at a decent salary, without the outgoings and 20 year commitment, for a similar sort of money. Good Luck regardless.

 

Thank you. I didn't know which forum was appropriate.

 

About the money, it's not really important. I've already told her she could quit working but I understand that's not something she would even consider. The biggest drawback in my view would be the loss of her medical benefits.

 

I am assuming that most of her coworkers/friends from 6 years ago will still be there when she returns. This is probably part of her incentive to stay in her current position/niche.

[samran]

It’s out and out corruption. But yes, people purchase promotions usually with a view for the new position to pay it back. 

[shootrrdave]

10 minutes ago, samran said:

It’s out and out corruption. But yes, people purchase promotions usually with a view for the new position to pay it back. 

This is a lateral move. Her salary will not change. 

[shootrrdave]

Ok. Just spoke to my wife and she did not have to purchase a contract when she moved to Bangkok 6 years ago. ????

[samran]

10 hours ago, shootrrdave said:

This is a lateral move. Her salary will not change. 

 

9 hours ago, shootrrdave said:

Ok. Just spoke to my wife and she did not have to purchase a contract when she moved to Bangkok 6 years ago. ????

Someone clearly believes there is some sort of upside for you wife - salary or otherwise - and is willing to leverage and monetize that. 

[shootrrdave]

53 minutes ago, samran said:

 

Someone clearly believes there is some sort of upside for you wife - salary or otherwise - and is willing to leverage and monetize that. 

The cynical side of me thinks they found out about her American husband. We're all rich, don't you know?

 

Jokes on them. I ain't got that kind of cash laying around. I'm just a self-employed long haul truck driver. It takes me 3 months to come up with enough extra to spend the next month in Thailand and when I go home I'm broke and have to start all over again.

 

She is going to have to sell some (maybe all) of the gold I have managed to buy her over the last 5 years. This includes her Sin Sot from the wedding a little over a year ago. 

[natway09]

The RTP sell their commissions for the lucrative nightclub areas of Thailand where the "brown envelopes" are collected every month,

The "bid fees" are well into 8 figures 

Where & how this money ends up along with the monthly income or "divi" process I have no idea

 

[Laza 45]

Feudal corruption.. pay for a job and work free for a year or so.. maybe a promotion.. pay more.. it stinks..

[Scouse123]

16 hours ago, shootrrdave said:

Oh we will pay. It will be cheaper in the long run...lol. At the prices I'm paying Air Asia for weekend flights we will break even in about 1.5 years. ????

 

My main concerns are whether this is normal practice and if so then is the price justified. 250,000 contract price for a 200,000 per year job seems high to me. That's 15 months earnings. How would any normal Thai be able to pay that? 

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

Regards your actual predicament I do not know is the answer, as this is a new one on me, because she is merely asking to move jobs from one province to another and not applying to get into ' the government organization '

 

But, in the larger picture, Thais have to pay to get in, for all kinds of jobs in the government sector. It is usual that they pay or they won't get the job, although it is illegal, but when has that ever stopped them?

 

They pay to get a government job to begin with. This I do know  first hand, from those around here that are teachers or in the land office, and other government jobs around here in Kalasin.

 

Even those in the police and the other occupations pay as well, especially when it comes to promotions etc

 

How does a normal Thai pay for it? They borrow, usually against their government position once they have got it. Prior to that, they borrow from moneylenders on land and property.

 

It stinks and it's a disgrace, but it definitely happens.

[emptypockets]

Why not bring the kid to live with you? Why does her mother need to raise your child?

[emptypockets]

5 hours ago, shootrrdave said:

The cynical side of me thinks they found out about her American husband. We're all rich, don't you know?

 

Jokes on them. I ain't got that kind of cash laying around. I'm just a self-employed long haul truck driver. It takes me 3 months to come up with enough extra to spend the next month in Thailand and when I go home I'm broke and have to start all over again.

 

She is going to have to sell some (maybe all) of the gold I have managed to buy her over the last 5 years. This includes her Sin Sot from the wedding a little over a year ago. 

The plot thickens.

[khunpa]

6 hours ago, shootrrdave said:

The cynical side of me thinks they found out about her American husband. We're all rich, don't you know?

 

Jokes on them. I ain't got that kind of cash laying around. I'm just a self-employed long haul truck driver. It takes me 3 months to come up with enough extra to spend the next month in Thailand and when I go home I'm broke and have to start all over again.

 

She is going to have to sell some (maybe all) of the gold I have managed to buy her over the last 5 years. This includes her Sin Sot from the wedding a little over a year ago. 

So let me understand this.

 

You go home, earn money, which you then spend on buying gold for you Thai wife, until you are broke and must return to work a home.

 

She then wants you to pay 250K baht more, although she could sell the gold you gave her and use the Sin Sod money you also gave her.

 

Wow! Have heard of guys marrying bargirls, who have less problems than you.

 

Might be a good idea to tell the wife to pay this for herself and see her reaction to that. If she refuses to pay her own way, you might consider running as fast as you can. I would for sure.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by khunpa

[SunsetT]

19 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I have moved this from general topics where it did not belong to one covering jobs, business etc, as it is the closest I could offer without closing you down.

It is not for no reason that the global transparency index rates Thailand poorly on corruption and graft, and this seems the sort of thing that has become endemic in society. Sadly, all the time people pay it, it renews the cycle.

I strongly suspect a job, if indeed she really needs the money, could be found once back in Roi Et, at a decent salary, without the outgoings and 20 year commitment, for a similar sort of money. Good Luck regardless.

 

Yes. Sadly this is the norm in Thailand. A falang aquaintance has moved 3 times with his teacher wife. Each time he has bought a new teaching job for her. I cant recall the amounts but when I asked him how much he said it depended on whether a job at the desired school was available or not. If one was not available you had to pay more to get an existing teacher dismissed! Shocking!!!

 

This is why so many government employees are so useless at their jobs!

Edited February 15, 2020 by SunsetT

[4evermaat]

17 hours ago, shootrrdave said:

Ok. Just spoke to my wife and she did not have to purchase a contract when she moved to Bangkok 6 years ago. ????

 

Did she mention anything else about her friends or peers that may have had to pay a "commission" for their job/raise/etc?

[Foghorn]

Pay to work ,I will give you a job for 20,000 a month ,salary is 15,000 a month ,the more people the better 

[Foghorn]

On a serious note what would happen if they dismissed your wife after a few months ?

[ericthai]

My wife's uncle had to pay to get his position as Principle at the school he worked at. Not sure of his position prior to becoming principle but I was told he had to pay 1 million THB to get the position, however this was 15 years ago. 

[shootrrdave]

8 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Why not bring the kid to live with you? Why does her mother need to raise your child?

As I said in an earlier post I'm a long haul truck driver. I literally live in my truck. I do not have a regular house or apartment. This is not a suitable lifestyle for a mother and child. Yes I could change jobs and in a worst case scenario we could live with my mother in Oklahoma but it's a moot point. My wife won't leave the rest of her family and I'm fine with that. I respect her sense of loyalty and responsibility as sole breadwinner for her family of 4 generations. Mother, 98 year old grandmother, 12 year old daughter from 1st marriage, herself, and now our 6 month old daughter. No other men in sight so I can appreciate that there's a small part of her that might wonder how long I will stick around so she goes to work while Mom helps with the baby.

[shootrrdave]

8 hours ago, khunpa said:

So let me understand this.

 

You go home, earn money, which you then spend on buying gold for you Thai wife, until you are broke and must return to work a home.

 

She then wants you to pay 250K baht more, although she could sell the gold you gave her and use the Sin Sod money you also gave her.

 

Wow! Have heard of guys marrying bargirls, who have less problems than you.

 

Might be a good idea to tell the wife to pay this for herself and see her reaction to that. If she refuses to pay her own way, you might consider running as fast as you can. I would for sure.

 

 

Hmm... you've got your bargirl goggles on. 

 

The current pattern of 3 months work and 1 month in Thailand started last year with the arrival of the baby and is my attempt to spend as much time as possible with her while still making a decent living. It's a balancing act I will try to maintain until I can start claiming social security in 7 years. Then I will move to Thailand. I haven't bought any gold during this time. The gold I referred to is 5 year's worth of miscellaneous gifts plus Sin Sod. It's only 13 baht total. There was cash Sin Sod too but it has been spent on much needed upgrades to her mother's house.

 

I currently go home broke because anything left at the end of my visit stays in Thailand. Keep in mind that when I say broke I mean that in a lighthearted way. I'm not missing any meals...555

 

And for the record she is not asking me to pay it. Of course she is reluctant to sell her gold but she will if necessary. This is her decision because she wants to be with our baby every night instead of just weekends and I support her 100%.

 

I'm just frustrated that it will leave her "broke" too because some pretty beaurocrat (sp?) somewhere wants to line their pockets. 

[shootrrdave]

8 hours ago, SunsetT said:

Yes. Sadly this is the norm in Thailand. A falang aquaintance has moved 3 times with his teacher wife. Each time he has bought a new teaching job for her. I cant recall the amounts but when I asked him how much he said it depended on whether a job at the desired school was available or not. If one was not available you had to pay more to get an existing teacher dismissed! Shocking!!!

 

This is why so many government employees are so useless at their jobs!

My wife is not even a teacher. She's an administrator. Glorified secretary really. She's not upper management either. She's just one of the anonymous rank & file of office paper pushers. This is why the high amount was so surprising to me.

[shootrrdave]

8 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

 

Did she mention anything else about her friends or peers that may have had to pay a "commission" for their job/raise/etc?

Hmm...I didn't think to ask her this. 

[shootrrdave]

6 hours ago, Foghorn said:

On a serious note what would happen if they dismissed your wife after a few months ?

Then she would get to be with our daughter 24/7 ????

 

I already provide the majority of her income. The main drawback would be the loss of her benefits. Mainly medical insurance. 

[Billy Bloggs]

No its not unusual, my girl did a doctorate and then found if she wanted a job it would cost her money to obtain it, there was no way around it, she couldnt afford it at the time or ever, she could now as she knows I would help but she is happy trying to do organic farming.