New Zealand PM Ardern says Australia's deportation policy is 'corrosive'

[rooster59]

New Zealand PM Ardern says Australia's deportation policy is 'corrosive'

By Colin Packham

 

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison hold a joint press conference at Admiralty House in Sydney, Australia, February 28, 2020. REUTERS/Loren Elliott

 

SYDNEY (Reuters) - Australia's deportation policy is so "corrosive" that it has soured its bilateral relationship with New Zealand, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said on Friday, a rare bust-up between the two historic allies.

 

Australia's conservative government has in recent months moved to deport thousands of foreigners convicted of crimes as part of an immigration crackdown that can also strip dual-nationals of their Australian citizenship.

 

The move has seen hundreds of people deported to New Zealand, a country that some left when just children and have few ties to.

 

"We have countless who have no home in New Zealand, they have no network, they have grown up in Australia. That is their home. And that is where they should stay," Ardern told reporters in Sydney during a media conference alongside Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison.

 

"Do not deport your people and your problems."

 

The two countries have fought in numerous conflicts alongside each other, and squabbles between the two rarely break-out beyond playful, light-hearted banter over sport and culture.

 

Roughly 650,000 New Zealand citizens - more than a tenth of the smaller country’s population - live in Australia.

Morrison, however, was unapologetic and promised no change in Australian policy.

 

"If you have committed a crime and you're not a citizen of Australia, then you have no right to stay," Morrison told the same media conference.

 

The disagreement comes as Ardern faces a tight race to keep her premiership when New Zealanders return to the polls on Sep 19.

 

Ardern is hugely popular among liberal voters globally thanks to her compassionate but decisive response to a mass shooting, her focus on climate change action and multilateralism, and her ability to combine motherhood and leadership.

 

But at home, slow economic growth and low business confidence, a failed state housing project and scandals sees her centre-left Labour trailing the conservative National Party.

 

"The election is on the knife edge. The issue is extremely sensitive back home, so giving Australia a kick in the ribs can't hurt at all," said Peter Chen, a political science professor at University of Sydney.

 

(Reporting by Colin Packham; Editing by Lincoln Feast.)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-02-29

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[AussieBob18]

She is like most left wingers in Govt - unlikely to stay long as people more and more turn 'right'.

Every single one of those people deported to NZ comitted one or more serious crimes - these are not speeders or shoplifters,

And every single one of them who had been living in Australia for 4 or more years (before comitting any serious crime) had the option to become an Australian citizen - but the majority of NZ citizens who live in Australia choose to remain NZ citizens.

The majority of Australians agree:  If you have committed a serious crime and you're not a citizen of Australia, then you have no right to stay - whether from NZ or any other country. 

 

[simple1]

27 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

She is like most left wingers in Govt - unlikely to stay long as people more and more turn 'right'.

Every single one of those people deported to NZ comitted one or more serious crimes - these are not speeders or shoplifters,

And every single one of them who had been living in Australia for 4 or more years (before comitting any serious crime) had the option to become an Australian citizen - but the majority of NZ citizens who live in Australia choose to remain NZ citizens.

The majority of Australians agree:  If you have committed a serious crime and you're not a citizen of Australia, then you have no right to stay - whether from NZ or any other country. 

 

The point being raised by Adern is some of those deported have had no connections with NZ having spent their entire lives in Oz. Adern has not raised any objection to NZ citizens who moved to OZ later in life & then committed serious crimes to being deported. As Adern quite reasonable requests, with those born / raised in Oz - "Do not deport your people and your problems."

[samran]

1 hour ago, AussieBob18 said:

She is like most left wingers in Govt - unlikely to stay long as people more and more turn 'right'.

Every single one of those people deported to NZ comitted one or more serious crimes - these are not speeders or shoplifters,

And every single one of them who had been living in Australia for 4 or more years (before comitting any serious crime) had the option to become an Australian citizen - but the majority of NZ citizens who live in Australia choose to remain NZ citizens.

The majority of Australians agree:  If you have committed a serious crime and you're not a citizen of Australia, then you have no right to stay - whether from NZ or any other country. 

 

The thing that most people miss is that since feb 2001 changes to Australia’s immigration law means that there are limited pathways to becoming a citizen in Australia as a NZ citizen. 
 

Prior to that date NZers who landed in Oz were granted automatic PR, which then let’s you ride out the 4 year time frame you mention to get citizenship.

 

Following Feb 2001, NZers who land are free to live and work in Australia indefinitely, but have to go through the skilled migration route to first get PR. This rules out a lot of NZs who come to Australia from having a path to citizenship. 
 

For what it’s worth, NZ still puts Australians on the path to citizenship from the moment they land with automatic acquisition of residency rights after one year living there and citizenship an option 4 or 5 year later. 

[Old Croc]

10 minutes ago, samran said:

For what it’s worth, NZ still puts Australians on the path to citizenship from the moment they land with automatic acquisition of residency rights after one year living there and citizenship an option 4 or 5 year later. 

Anyone who lives in NZ on a permanent visa for 5 years is eligible. No special track for Australians. It used to be 2 years, and many from other countries went this route as a way to move to Australia.

Australia has even refused to resettle economic migrants from detention centers into NZ because of the probability they would be using that system to get into Oz. At one stage NZ opened up their borders to Pacific Islanders in an effort to increase population. Among the ensuring flood of migrants it was unsurprising that many had their eyes on a future move further west. That free entry didn't last long.

These policies are probably the main reasons NZers lost the right to automatic citizenship in Australia.

 

Back in the day, the Trans Tasman agreement resulted in a flood of Kiwis into Australia partly because unemployment benefits were higher in Oz. Many lived the high life in shared accommodations in places like Bondi, curtesy of the Australian taxpayer. This resulted in changes to waiting periods to become eligible for that benefit. Many criminals also moved there in an effort to rehabilitate or expand with a clean sheet. Some of these may be getting the boot now.

The article says 10% of the NZ population reside in Australia, I think it was even higher in the past. The NZ economy improved markedly at one stage, but again seems to be in decline.

Unfortunately, the conservatives will probably get back in there. 

[DoctorG]

Doubt she will still be PM after Sept.

[JimHuaHin]

I am an Australian by birth, but I support New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on this issue. Scott Morrison is a coal-addicted moron.

[samran]

30 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Anyone who lives in NZ on a permanent visa for 5 years is eligible. No special track for Australians. It used to be 2 years, and many from other countries went this route as a way to move to Australia.

Australia has even refused to resettle economic migrants from detention centers into NZ because of the probability they would be using that system to get into Oz. At one stage NZ opened up their borders to Pacific Islanders in an effort to increase population. Among the ensuring flood of migrants it was unsurprising that many had their eyes on a future move further west. That free entry didn't last long.

These policies are probably the main reasons NZers lost the right to automatic citizenship in Australia.

 

Back in the day, the Trans Tasman agreement resulted in a flood of Kiwis into Australia partly because unemployment benefits were higher in Oz. Many lived the high life in shared accommodations in places like Bondi, curtesy of the Australian taxpayer. This resulted in changes to waiting periods to become eligible for that benefit. Many criminals also moved there in an effort to rehabilitate or expand with a clean sheet. Some of these may be getting the boot now.

The article says 10% of the NZ population reside in Australia, I think it was even higher in the past. The NZ economy improved markedly at one stage, but again seems to be in decline.

Unfortunately, the conservatives will probably get back in there. 

For all intents and purposes there is a special track for Australians in NZ, it’s called a variation of travel conditions which means you are eligible for PR after 2 years in NZ. It’s cheap and straightforward, unlike what kiwis face in Australia which as I said, requires going down the skilled migration route and the fees associated with it which start at $7000++ for memory, assuming you have a skill in demand.
 

https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/apply-for-a-visa/tools-and-information/general-information/variation-of-travel-conditions

 

As for the bondi bludger myth...well it was just that, a myth. Kiwis have a lower unemployment rate that they general Australian populace. Always have, but beating up on them has always been good politics.

 

 

 

[White Christmas13]

37 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

Doubt she will still be PM after Sept.

Just read an article about her on another website, and the way it looks

she is in trouble at home and will be lucky to get reelected.

[Old Croc]

3 minutes ago, samran said:

For all intents and purposes there is a special track for Australians in NZ, it’s called a variation of travel conditions which means you are eligible for PR after 2 years in NZ. It’s cheap and straightforward, unlike what kiwis face in Australia which as I said, requires going down the skilled migration route and the fees associated with it which start at $7000++ for memory, assuming you have a skill in demand.
 

https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/apply-for-a-visa/tools-and-information/general-information/variation-of-travel-conditions

 

As for the bondi bludger myth...well it was just that, a myth. Kiwis have a lower unemployment rate that they general Australian populace. Always have, but beating up on them has always been good politics.

OK, conceded, it's easier for Australians to get PR, and you did specify that in the quoted text, but I was talking about criteria for citizenship. 

Sorry, disagree with what you call a myth. Kiwis do have a lower unemployment rate now, but again I was was taking about a point in the past when they could step off the plane and be eligible for unemployment benefits. Bondi was an infamous Kiwi hangout in those days. Affordable rental accommodation near the beach made it very popular.

[leeneeds]

Its all just an underarm ball from Australia again.

[Salerno]

Never met a Kiwi I didn't like (obviously not a large enough subset 555) but bottom line, if you are a serial offender or committed a serious crime and are not an Aussie citizen I see no issue with kicking them out IMO.

 

As for Ardern, I may not see eye-to-eye with her politics but I wish she was an Aussie.

[Franko666]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

The point being raised by Adern is some of those deported have had no connections with NZ having spent their entire lives in Oz. Adern has not raised any objection to NZ citizens who moved to OZ later in life & then committed serious crimes to being deported. As Adern quite reasonable requests, with those born / raised in Oz - "Do not deport your people and your problems."

Scomos point is these Kiwi non Australians don’t have citizenship in Australia therefore don’t have any Citizen rights. Therefore if these idiots commit a crime they get booted out to their Country of origin, in this case NZ.

Most law abiding Kiwis understand and support this but the question must be asked, why didn’t these crims take up Citizenship in Australia? Criminal record, prefer NZ perhaps or they prefer the Kiwi pension above the Aussie pension when they return home after a lifetime of crime in Aus.

[samran]

4 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

OK, conceded, it's easier for Australians to get PR, and you did specify that in the quoted text, but I was talking about criteria for citizenship. 

Sorry, disagree with what you call a myth. Kiwis do have a lower unemployment rate now, but again I was was taking about a point in the past when they could step off the plane and be eligible for unemployment benefits. Bondi was an infamous Kiwi hangout in those days. Affordable rental accommodation near the beach made it very popular.

Look I don’t deny that there were bludgers, but all that was needed was to put in waiting times for access to benefits. Instead, they (we) restricted access to citizenship. 
 

It may not sound like much, but give we are 20 years into it, lots of kiwis who have lived and worked in Australia for that duration when they fall on hard times find themselves out in the cold despite paying taxes. There’s a huge list, but things like access to the NDIS, disaster relief, access to shelters for domestic abuse victims, in some cases university education. The list goes on. All Australia has to do is create a straight forward path the PR for these people, but it simply doesn’t exist under the system we have. 

[JustAnotherHun]

I don't understand why New Zealand does not want its criminals back. Very strange indeed.

[newatthis]

18 minutes ago, leeneeds said:

Its all just an underarm ball from Australia again.

And that was a winner, too.

[Old Croc]

3 minutes ago, samran said:

Look I don’t deny that there were bludgers, but all that was needed was to put in waiting times for access to benefits. Instead, they (we) restricted access to citizenship. 
 

It may not sound like much, but give we are 20 years into it, lots of kiwis who have lived and worked in Australia for that duration when they fall on hard times find themselves out in the cold despite paying taxes. There’s a huge list, but things like access to the NDIS, disaster relief, access to shelters for domestic abuse victims, in some cases university education. The list goes on. All Australia has to do is create a straight forward path the PR for these people, but it simply doesn’t exist under the system we have. 

You seem to be assuming I agree with all the policies now being utilized by the current government. Not so, I haven't voted conservative since the 1975 coup. Their current unbalanced and divisive policies are not likely to change this former national union official's mind. 

I'm just trying to give some context as to why it's not automatic for NZers to get citizenship in Australia. It's more about how easy they made it for people to get it in their country. People who would never be able to apply in Australia, have used that side door.  As is the way with unimaginative politicians, they've closed the door for all. 

The fact that The Agreement basically gives New Zealanders the right to live and work permanently, but precludes them from full PR and automatic citizenship, does seem unfair, particularly for the many good people living long term in Australia. (Still much better than my rights in Thailand!) The legislation should perhaps be amended to make it easier for those of good character to receive full benefits. However, many also believe the myth that Nzers are all wonderful, good people.  I've seen all sides, having  granted citizenship to hundreds and once headed up a criminal deportation branch. Guess which nationality were the biggest customers for the latter. 

(Note: my 2nd wife was from New Zealand)

[samran]

6 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

You seem to be assuming I agree with all the policies now being utilized by the current government. Not so, I haven't voted conservative since the 1975 coup. Their current unbalanced and divisive policies are not likely to change this former national union official's mind. 

I'm just trying to give some context as to why it's not automatic for NZers to get citizenship in Australia. It's more about how easy they made it for people to get it in their country. People who would never be able to apply in Australia, have used that side door.  As is the way with unimaginative politicians, they've closed the door for all. 

The fact that The Agreement basically gives New Zealanders the right to live and work permanently, but precludes them from full PR and automatic citizenship, does seem unfair, particularly for the many good people living long term in Australia. (Still much better than my rights in Thailand!) The legislation should perhaps be amended to make it easier for those of good character to receive full benefits. However, many also believe the myth that Nzers are all wonderful, good people.  I've seen all sides, having  granted citizenship to hundreds and once headed up a criminal deportation branch. Guess which nationality were the biggest customers for the latter. 

(Note: my 2nd wife was from New Zealand)

Fascinating your last job must have been! 
 

I must admit reading your post makes a refreshing change. This is an issue close to my heart given I’ve got NZ citizen family members some the right side of 2001 and others not. Most people don’t understand the nucances. 

[Scouse123]

It's a very complex issue and it appears in some cases New Zealanders are getting the rough end of the stick, especially law abiding ones.

 

However, I admire Australia sticking up for itself finally and hope the U.K. follows suit. We are already starting a roll out of an Australia style points system for immigrants to reside in the UK. I do not care how unpopular this post will be with some on this board. Australia is starting to take back control of its borders and its citizens.

 

Many of us in the UK admire this method and we seem to finally have a new prime minister in Boris Johnson, who feels the same. If Labour had have gained power and the keys to number 10, the floodgates would have opened to immigrants that do not share our language, religion or values.

 

The USA also does the same, thousands of Cambodians have been deported to Cambodia that grew up in the USA and do not speak, read or write khmer. What they have in common is that they committed crimes deemed serious enough to revoke their right to stay in the USA.

 

We have the young girl in the UK stripped of British Citizenship who ot only ran off to join ISIS, she became a member of their ' religious police ' punishing woman who didn't make their standards and also was witness to the beheading and murder of many of our western NGO's, and soldiers. They say if she is deported to Bangladesh , her parents country of birth, she will be tried as a terrorist. GOOD,She should have thought of that when she joined ISIS.

 

Well done Australia in making a move to put Australians first and making it safer in the long term.

[Old Croc]

25 minutes ago, samran said:

Fascinating your last job must have been! 
 

I must admit reading your post makes a refreshing change. This is an issue close to my heart given I’ve got NZ citizen family members some the right side of 2001 and others not. Most people don’t understand the nucances. 

My last job was working with refugees.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Franko666 said:

Scomos point is these Kiwi non Australians don’t have citizenship in Australia therefore don’t have any Citizen rights. Therefore if these idiots commit a crime they get booted out to their Country of origin, in this case NZ.

<SNIP>

Adern has clearly stated she doesn't have a problem with deporting criminals from Oz to NZ if they previously were raised in NZ. To repeat Adern is objecting to people who have been raised in Oz with no connections to NZ. being deported to NZ where more likely than not they will continue their criminal life - to me her request is reasonable - Morrison is just utilising legal loopholes to avoid Oz govt responsibilities.

Edited February 29, 2020 by simple1

[Mick501]

4 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

She is like most left wingers in Govt - unlikely to stay long as people more and more turn 'right'.

Every single one of those people deported to NZ comitted one or more serious crimes - these are not speeders or shoplifters,

And every single one of them who had been living in Australia for 4 or more years (before comitting any serious crime) had the option to become an Australian citizen - but the majority of NZ citizens who live in Australia choose to remain NZ citizens.

The majority of Australians agree:  If you have committed a serious crime and you're not a citizen of Australia, then you have no right to stay - whether from NZ or any other country. 

 

To be deported requires that you have actually been sentences to a year or longer.  Takes a very serious offence, or multiple offences to get that long.

 

As you say, most of these people had the choice to get nationalised, but wanted the best of both worlds.

[UbonThani]

2 hours ago, JimHuaHin said:

I am an Australian by birth, but I support New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on this issue. Scott Morrison is a coal-addicted moron.

Go live in NZ. Bye bye.

[evadgib]

19 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

It's a very complex issue and it appears in some cases New Zealanders are getting the rough end of the stick, especially law abiding ones.

 

However, I admire Australia sticking up for itself finally and hope the U.K. follows suit. We are already starting a roll out of an Australia style points system for immigrants to reside in the UK. I do not care how unpopular this post will be with some on this board. Australia is starting to take back control of its borders and its citizens.

 

Many of us in the UK admire this method and we seem to finally have a new prime minister in Boris Johnson, who feels the same. If Labour had have gained power and the keys to number 10, the floodgates would have opened to immigrants that do not share our language, religion or values.

 

The USA also does the same, thousands of Cambodians have been deported to Cambodia that grew up in the USA and do not speak, read or write khmer. What they have in common is that they committed crimes deemed serious enough to revoke their right to stay in the USA.

 

We have the young girl in the UK stripped of British Citizenship who ot only ran off to join ISIS, she became a member of their ' religious police ' punishing woman who didn't make their standards and also was witness to the beheading and murder of many of our western NGO's, and soldiers. They say if she is deported to Bangladesh , her parents country of birth, she will be tried as a terrorist. GOOD,She should have thought of that when she joined ISIS.

 

Well done Australia in making a move to put Australians first and making it safer in the long term.

I agree; It's high time ???????? were able to do same.

 

Australia deports British man to UK after 40 years

[Don Mega]

How does the NZ deportation policy compare ?

[simple1]

13 minutes ago, Mick501 said:

To be deported requires that you have actually been sentences to a year or longer.  Takes a very serious offence, or multiple offences to get that long.

 

As you say, most of these people had the choice to get nationalised, but wanted the best of both worlds.

Why do you believe someone with a lengthy criminal record would be able to apply and achieve Oz citizenship?

[UbonThani]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Why do you believe someone with a lengthy criminal record would be able to apply and achieve Oz citizenship?

Obviously he meant before.

[samran]

14 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

How does the NZ deportation policy compare ?

If they’ve been effectively raised in NZ then they don’t deport. 

[Don Mega]

Just now, samran said:

If they’ve been effectively raised in NZ then they don’t deport. 

That wasn't my question.

[xylophone]

32 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

However, I admire Australia sticking up for itself finally and hope the U.K. follows suit. We are already starting a roll out of an Australia style points system for immigrants to reside in the UK.

I too hope that the UK initiates a points style system for immigrants, and in my opinion it is well overdue

 

As for NZ, there has been a type of points style system in operation since the early 1980s (or before?), however it was based on whether the skills of the potential immigrant were those which were required in NZ, or were likely to benefit the country in one way or another. If they weren't, then citizenship was denied.

 

In principle, I don't have a problem with Australia deporting criminals back to their countries, this especially after it has been stated here that migrants from NZ, residing in Australia, do have a chance to take up Australian citizenship; so they should have done this.

 

A difficult subject and I'm sure it's not as clear-cut as one would like, and something which springs to mind is the situation where a New Zealand family emigrates to Australia and has a child, which 18 years later commits a crime, so as he is still ostensibly a New Zealand citizen, does he get sent back to NZ??.