On 3/7/2020 at 12:07 PM, guzzi850m2 said:

I agree with OP.

 

Just been to CM with the family, we flew from U-Tapao airport so very convenient thus avoiding the awful Swampy airport.

 

Chang Mai is really nice, we had an awesome time, the inner city have an atmosphere that Pattaya will never achieve.

 

Still a lot of hippies up there, young and old and yes vegetarian seems popular up there. Veggie hamburger (<deleted>!), veggie pizza, you name it they got them but not for me, I am a meat lover.

 

It was hotter in CM than Pattaya during daytime, air quality not good as well.

 

Good to be back in good old Pattaya, our home, we gonna have have steaks on the barbie tonight, buying good quality meat in BigC extra at a fair price. 

 

If I win the lottery I might buy a condo in CM as a second home but Pattaya will always be our home, no other places in the Kingdom suits us better.  

 

 

CM is a boring dump

Guzz850m2 is right, the Old Town feels almost like a Mediterranean old Italian city centre. The over 1000 year old history is palpably in the air. As Thailand's second largest city, after Bangkok, there are all the usual urban attractions, great restaurants, happening night life, endless coffee shop choices, excellent massages.

 

I don't find Chiang Mai boring at all. Every day there is something new to discover.

 

I don' think run down and sleazy = edgy, it's just run down. Chiang Mai is world's better than Pattaya. Not even the same league. 

 

1	Bangkok	14,565,547
2	Nonthaburi	270,609
3	Nakhon Ratchasima	174,332
4	Chiang Mai	174,235

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Every day there is something new to discover.

 

There's stuff all to do in the city. Only good for mountains and kayaking which is a 2 hr drive.

24 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

 

1	Bangkok	14,565,547
2	Nonthaburi	270,609
3	Nakhon Ratchasima	174,332
4	Chiang Mai	174,235

Obviously I was referring to cultural significance and not something so vulgar as population numbers....

 

Nonthanburi is basically part of Bangkok anyway.

 

 

24 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

There's stuff all to do in the city. Only good for mountains and kayaking which is a 2 hr drive.

WHAT? WHAT NOW? There's tons of stuff to do in the City!

 

 

On 3/4/2020 at 12:42 PM, Number 6 said:

Well, nothing in Thailand gets better and that must include Pattaya.

 

If a 20 minute ride to a beach is close for you we'll whatever. Living in California I was walking distance, often blocks to the ocean.

 

Sorry, what a read about Pattaya it's the same dump it always was but worse.

 

You're not near the bars, not beaches. There's nothing down there except cheap tourists and attractions.

 

I'm in BKK for another few years then we move South.

 

Enjoy it.

 

My wife wouldn't step within 10km of the place.

If I had a wife I would not expect her to step within 10 yards of the place nor would I expect her to to be happy with my doing so either.

 

Pattaya is an ideal location for single fellows. Only a fool would expect his wife or girlfriend to like the place let alone live there.

On 3/5/2020 at 7:00 AM, lkn said:

I think we got a little off track here.

 

OP claimed that Pattaya was the best place to live because it is centrally located.

 

Centrally located is not “I can reach Heathrow in 14 hours”, and living here would presumably mean that you are not going to Heathrow all the time.

 

Though if you live here, there is a pretty good chance you will take shorter trips, e.g. to get away from Songkran or just a change of scenery, and that is where having an airport close by is a great convenience, and the closeness of CNX to Chiang Mai is hard to beat, and why Chiang Mai does not feel “isolated” as the OP implied.

 

Many people who read this forum do not live in Thailand so for them Pattaya is convenient. Particularly if they are from Europe, the UK, the Middle East, Russia or the Antipodes.

 

Many readers of TV look at issues from the point of view of an expat but far more people visit Thailand for holidays 

than actually live there as ex pats.

 

Being able to get to LHR, Paris or Berlin in 14 hours is extremely convenient for regular visitors and long termers when you compare it to how long it would take for them to get there from Chiang Mai. 

15 hours ago, yogi100 said:

If I had a wife I would not expect her to step within 10 yards of the place nor would I expect her to to be happy with my doing so either.

So boring. No wonder you don’t have any wife.

 

15 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Pattaya is an ideal location for single fellows. Only a fool would expect his wife or girlfriend to like the place let alone live there.

Pattaya’s an ideal location for everyone. Cool guys bring their wives and girlfriend here to have a good time, too. And they’d love to live here. Tell you what: if you have a gf, bring her down for a weekend, check into Centara, look at some condos at Northpoint or The Riveria, hit a go-go on WS with lovely ladies, and bring a lady you both like back to your room at Centara for an exciting threesome. Your gf would then want to marry you ASAP and live in Pattaya with you forever. You gotta have some vision, man.

 

On 3/10/2020 at 4:36 PM, Logosone said:

Guzz850m2 is right, the Old Town feels almost like a Mediterranean old Italian city centre. The over 1000 year old history is palpably in the air. As Thailand's second largest city, after Bangkok, there are all the usual urban attractions, great restaurants, happening night life, endless coffee shop choices, excellent massages.

Pattaya's got all that and Pattaya massages blow away anything you can get in Chiang Mai. Did I say massages?

 

But old ladies don't belong in Pattaya, true. Need your afternoon tea served in a porcelain cup on a dainty little lace doily, that ain't Pattaya. Stay in Chiang Mai with the man buns. Still, Pattaya has a LOT of variety when you count in all the venues in the hotels.

 

Quote

I don' think run down and sleazy = edgy, it's just run down.

Pattaya has all kinds of new $#!+ and is the home of endless construction. T21 is new and vast; you can feel as plastic as you want to right there. Lots of gentrification on older sois such as Sois 6, 7, and 8. Many of us don't consider that an improvement, but you might. 

 

Fortunately remnants of Old Pattaya still exist and give the place the local color that makes it still Pattaya rather than the sterile homogenized generic city in which you'd feel comfortable. It's real, it's authentic, it's insistent, and it can be right in your face. (Or not; Pattaya has very different areas within its large boundaries.) It's not sleazy at all but simply a neon-lit tribute to freedom and the miracle of sex that should be emulated elsewhere.

 

24 minutes ago, BigStar said:

It's not sleazy at all but simply a neon-lit tribute to freedom and the miracle of sex that should be emulated elsewhere.

Prostitution every 10 meters over the center of city should be emulated elsewhere.  Really?

 

Perhaps other tourist destinations are trying to attract tourists for many other reasons than sex.   

6 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Prostitution every 10 meters over the center of city should be emulated elsewhere.  Really?

 

Perhaps other tourist destinations are trying to attract tourists for many other reasons than sex.   

You seem not to know much about Pattaya. The center of the city has much, much more including a nice big shopping mall and the Hilton hotel. The 10 meters is your usual nonsense. Obviously Pattaya attracts a variety of tourists with a variety of interests. But other tourist destinations should add in sex, yes, if they haven't already. 

1 minute ago, BigStar said:

You seem not to know much about Pattaya. The center of the city has much, much more including a nice big shopping mall and the Hilton hotel. Obviously it attracts a variety of tourists with a variety of interests. But other tourist destinations should add in sex, yes, if they haven't already. 

It's you that seems not to know much about successful tourist destinations.

 

Try a nice beach and clean ocean, friendly locals, proper land transport, less scams, less crime against tourists, less beatings of tourists, casinos, footpaths you can walk on, no sewer smell from the pipes, no flooding, safety standards, no police corruption affecting tourists, no dual pricing, proper town planning, less traffic, cleaner air.

 

You keep banging on about T21 like it's become Pattaya's main tourist attraction.  Apart from the food court, T21 is dead.  Photos have been posted showing this. 

41 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Pattaya's got all that and Pattaya massages blow away anything you can get in Chiang Mai. Did I say massages?

 

But old ladies don't belong in Pattaya, true. Need your afternoon tea served in a porcelain cup on a dainty little lace doily, that ain't Pattaya. Stay in Chiang Mai with the man buns. Still, Pattaya has a LOT of variety when you count in all the venues in the hotels.

 

Pattaya has all kinds of new $#!+ and is the home of endless construction. T21 is new and vast; you can feel as plastic as you want to right there. Lots of gentrification on older sois such as Sois 6, 7, and 8. Many of us don't consider that an improvement, but you might. 

 

Fortunately remnants of Old Pattaya still exist and give the place the local color that makes it still Pattaya rather than the sterile homogenized generic city in which you'd feel comfortable. It's real, it's authentic, it's insistent, and it can be right in your face. (Or not; Pattaya has very different areas within its large boundaries.) It's not sleazy at all but simply a neon-lit tribute to freedom and the miracle of sex that should be emulated elsewhere.

 

Nah, the massages in Chiang Mai can't be improved upon, they're perfect. There are some of the leading massage schools in the country here in Chiang Mai.

 

And I use two ladies in particular that are young, around 22, attractive and have skills like massage goddesses. Of course if you prefer the usual happy ending massage, there are tons of places for that here as well. Also if you want more than that there a specific entertain complexes that cater to more hardcore "massages". So that's all here as well.

 

I also like a bit of edgy, never get tea served on a doily, only the strongest coffee, but we do need luxury in our lives. Chiang mai is in no way 'homogenized' or 'generic'. Every street is different to the next. I'm afraid Chiang Mai is also real and authentic. It's not a fake Chinese city.

 

You have hotels? Do you have a Four Seasons? Didn't think so.

 

I'm all for celebrating sex, but Pattaya is not celebrating sex, it's celebrating the commercialisation of sex, where men have to pay for, and women sell sex. That's different to celebrating sex. Less than a celebration, it's more of a market. And by all accounts most people who go there think it's a repulsive one.

 

But, hey, I'm glad you like it there and thanks for spilling the news on the developments there. The main thing is you like it.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Leaver said:

It's you that seems not to know much about successful tourist destinations.

 

Try a nice beach and clean ocean, friendly locals, proper land transport, less scams, less crime against tourists, less beatings of tourists, casinos, footpaths you can walk on, no sewer smell from the pipes, no flooding, safety standards, no police corruption affecting tourists, no dual pricing, proper town planning, less traffic, cleaner air.

 

You keep banging on about T21 like it's become Pattaya's main tourist attraction.  Apart from the food court, T21 is dead.  Photos have been posted showing this. 

All tourist destinations could use some improvements. Pattaya bashing was a sport long before TV even existed and doom predictions go back more than 20 years. Nevertheless, it's continued to grow and is still looks to continue doing so. Betting against Pattaya has ever been a losing proposition.

 

Photos showing T21 "dead" at some random time are meaningless, as has been explained to you. Been there, seen how good business is. Try to keep up.

 

30 minutes ago, BigStar said:

All tourist destinations could use some improvements. Pattaya bashing was a sport long before TV even existed and doom predictions go back more than 20 years. Nevertheless, it's continued to grow and is still looks to continue doing so. Betting against Pattaya has ever been a losing proposition.

 

Photos showing T21 "dead" at some random time are meaningless, as has been explained to you. Been there, seen how good business is. Try to keep up.

 

I'm not Pattaya bashing.  I am calling it as I see it.

 

Sex made Pattaya famous, not the things mentioned in my previous post that have made other world class tourist destinations successful, and sustainable.  

 

In my opinion, Pattaya is not growing, it's contracting, and I'm not talking about its geographic size, but its economy.

 

Feel free to post some photos of brand name shops in T21 being busy.  Every time I go there, the shops are empty. 

 

If Pattaya was a listed company on the stock exchange, would you buy share in it?  No, I didn't think so. 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, BigStar said:

for every obsessed "repulsed" little basher here, there're a thousand Brits dreaming in their council estates how they can move here permanently.

99.9% of whom are single males.  Now why would that be?  ???? 

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

99.9% of whom are single males.  Now why would that be?  ???? 

Figure it out, man.

Two posts from the same source with unattributed multiple quotes have been removed, please do not do that it messes up replies down the line and is against forum rules.

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

99.9% of whom are single males.  Now why would that be?  ???? 

Probably because women in the west only seem to want sex with drug dealers, murderers and other violent thugs.

Sure, if you're a fairly wealthy middle class guy with a nice income, you can find one that will marry you and reluctantly have sex with you once a month, but she'll still be fantasising about the violent thug while you're banging her. And after she's lived in your home long enough to claim it in the forthcoming divorce, you won't be getting any at all, and you won't have a home either.

 

Out here, if you've got $30, you can have sex.

I can't help feeling the western world is fundamentally broken.

Pattaya is amazing ......... but not as amazing as it was 10 years back.

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

Nah, the massages in Chiang Mai can't be improved upon, they're perfect. There are some of the leading massage schools in the country here in Chiang Mai.

 

And I use two ladies in particular that are young, around 22, attractive and have skills like massage goddesses. Of course if you prefer the usual happy ending massage, there are tons of places for that here as well. Also if you want more than that there a specific entertain complexes that cater to more hardcore "massages". So that's all here as well.

 

I also like a bit of edgy, never get tea served on a doily, only the strongest coffee, but we do need luxury in our lives. Chiang mai is in no way 'homogenized' or 'generic'. Every street is different to the next. I'm afraid Chiang Mai is also real and authentic. It's not a fake Chinese city.

 

You have hotels? Do you have a Four Seasons? Didn't think so.

 

I'm all for celebrating sex, but Pattaya is not celebrating sex, it's celebrating the commercialisation of sex, where men have to pay for, and women sell sex. That's different to celebrating sex. Less than a celebration, it's more of a market. And by all accounts most people who go there think it's a repulsive one.

 

But, hey, I'm glad you like it there and thanks for spilling the news on the developments there. The main thing is you like it.

 

 

Good try but you’ve not any evidence that Chiang Mai’s massages are any better than Pattaya’s. I guess it’d take years to visit all our massage parlors. ????

 

We got Hilton, Marriot, Holiday Inn, Centara, Dusit etc. Quite nice, and any Chiang Mai old lady could be comfortable in one of them and enjoy a sea view.  

 

Every street in Pattaya has its own character as well with characters roaming around on them, not to mention the shop owners, and some of the variety within the chaos can be pretty amazing. However, you’d have to stop clutching your pearls long enough to observe and interact.

 

That's something, BTW, underrated about Pattaya--a lot of Thai characters live here who are quite funny & interesting if you're at all a student of character. However, speaking with them and getting to know them a bit requires some Thai language skills.

 

Chiang Mai is rather fake in that the nightlife it’d normally have in a free market is repressed. Not much around and not open late, at least not that which is conveniently located. It lacks the natural Thai chaos that Pattaya has in such abundance. ????

 

Oh, well, Christmas is so commercialized. Even your kid's birthday party ain't free, pal. You pay the caterers of course and then everybody has a good time. They do; you do. Most people who come to Pattaya for that in particular do in fact have a good time and just wish they could afford to come back. The stories they tell. Even some of the conversations to be had in Pattaya about Pattaya experiences are most entertaining. Had a great laugh the other day and another day in the retelling.

 

Yeah, for every obsessed "repulsed" little basher here, there're a thousand Brits dreaming in their council estates how they can move here permanently.

 

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

I'm not Pattaya bashing.  I am calling it as I see it.

 

Sex made Pattaya famous, not the things mentioned in my previous post that have made other world class tourist destinations successful, and sustainable.  

 

In my opinion, Pattaya is not growing, it's contracting, and I'm not talking about its geographic size, but its economy.

 

Feel free to post some photos of brand name shops in T21 being busy.  Every time I go there, the shops are empty. 

 

If Pattaya was a listed company on the stock exchange, would you buy share in it?  No, I didn't think so.

 

Constant selective perception, carping, exaggeration, negative tendentious speculation, and other nonsense make it bashing.

 

Pattaya isn’t a world class destination, big reason why it’s cheap. Calling it that is simply the usual straw man argument. It's been at least modestly successful and that success looks to continue. Pattaya's quite adaptable, which helps account for the variety that appeals to different market segments. The night life in central PTY that posters here obsess about is only a part of a much larger picture stretching Naklua to Na Jomtien.

 

The opinion that Pattaya’s economy has contracted, is contracting, or is going to contract is the typical doomster opinion voiced by authoritative expat Economists either on the forum or, before the forum existed, in letters to the Pattaya Mail yearly for more than 20 years. It’s to be understood as merely a wish and a bid for relevance on the part of the poster, usually some old pensioner. Meanwhile, the economy of Pattaya keeps growing.

 

Yep, if Pattaya were listed I’d invest. In fact if in 2009 instead of sneering and prophesying the failure of CentralFestival our ace Economists had invested in shares of CP, then their money would have more than quadrupled in 6 years. Would have mitigated some of the whinging about price increases. But such is TVF Economics.

 

Yep. You can't beat a traditional family seaside resort.

I like Pattaya as a place to chill for a few weeks without spending a fortune and prefer its edgy style and pace plus the mass of English speaking expats (even if some are sex-pats) you can have a conversation with.

 

No problem with the ladyboys either, just smile back and be polite and their generally leave you alone.

18 minutes ago, Cracker2000 said:

No problem with the ladyboys either, just smile back and be polite and their generally leave you alone.

I always tell them I'm broke but up for a free one.

They're still friendly but leave me alone.

6 hours ago, Leaver said:

99.9% of whom are single males.  Now why would that be?  ???? 

Single blokes like attractive, agreeable female company. It's the same all over the world. And will often do what ever they can to get it.

 

It's a normal, healthy masculine desire that can be satisfied in Pattaya more easily than any other place you can name anywhere else on the planet.

 

It's the reason we came to Thailand in the first place no matter how much some may try to deny it. No red blooded male travels thousands of miles at considerable expense to look at monuments and temples.

 

 

 

 

 

When I first came to Pattaya in 1984 it was just a little village on Beach Rd mainly extending from where the Royal Garden Plaza now is up to about three hundred yards into where Walking Street now is.

 

When I returned in 1999 I did not recognise the place, it had grown so much. The only part I recognised was the Best Friends Bar Complex on Beach Rd.

 

There were other streets beyond these boundaries but none worth mentioning. There was no Sukhumvit Rd and it took around 4 hours to get to DM airport.

 

Now it's a city. I know of no metropolis in the world that has grown so quickly. So it must be doing something right!

6 hours ago, Leaver said:

99.9% of whom are single males.  Now why would that be?  ???? 

cause you can dine out every meal and have a maid that does all the cleaning

so theres a grand total of zero reason to have anything to do with woman ?

9 hours ago, BigStar said:

We got Hilton, Marriot, Holiday Inn, Centara, Dusit etc. Quite nice, and any Chiang Mai old lady could be comfortable in one of them and enjoy a sea view.  

Amari completely redeveloped, open and very nice indeed. All the above have sea views, the best CM can do is a wall!

Derogatory troll remarks removed.