O conversion denied at Jomtian - Wants 800K in Thai bank only

[ubonjoe]

45 minutes ago, mosan said:

In the rare case you didn't notice, this guy is supposedly going to try and use the "combination method".  The wiggle room we are talking about is in the amount he will place on deposit - because at the end of the year, immigrations is going to use whatever the exchange rate is on his date of application. But then people who are always right, already know this...

Since he will be transferring in his income everything will be in baht already so the exchange rate on the date of application does not matter.

 

[Max69xl]

30 minutes ago, Eocene said:

Once again, I will bring the plan to an IO once I convert to an O from my exempt entry. I have talked to agents and they say it is OK. If IO refuses, there is always somebody else who  can do it. What is the big deal? And once again let's focus on conversion part only. 

To summarize discussions in this thread,

 

1. Conversion is impossible using foreign accounts at IO (verified).

2. Conversion is only possible with 800K THB in a Thai account at IO (verified).

3. An O visa is possible from Penang using foreign brokerage accounts (unverified).

4. An agent can do a conversion with foreign account (verified with agents). 

Did I miss any other options?

Yes,paying straight to Jomtien Immigration desk 7. The last time I heard about it,the cost was 19k for 3+12 months. If using an agent just for the conversion, you have to meet the requirements for the 1 year extension 60 days later. With your $500 transfers they won't accept it if you're going for the monthly income method. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Max69xl

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Eocene said:

Yes, I want the combination method. I did not see any place to select the method in the form I will be using for extension. Do I just verbally communicate that to the IO and supply all bank documents? 

If you're going for the combo method, take your documents to Immigration a couple of days before and ask them if everything is ok. You won't be happy if you're going to immigration for your extension and they say no for some strange reason. Ask at desk 8, not at the front desk. 

[Eocene]

23 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

If you're using an agent when not having let's say 800k in the bank, you have to use an agent the next year as well. You're not so smart if you prefer paying 20k instead of ฿1900/year. I guess you don't meet any requirement and have to use an agent. My extensions are totally hassle free and runs smoothly every year. No need for agents for people with half a brain. 

I talked to an agent who says they can do it for 5K if I have 800K in a Thai bank. No need for any queue or wait. They will take me to immigration office in their car and take a picture. Total time in office is two minutes. But they cant do for combination method. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Eocene

[DefaultName]

Many of us have had this dilemma, many with less savings than you have.  We just put the 800,000 in a Thai bank and take the hit.  It's not right, it's not fair, but TIT, their country, their rules.  

 

Money in Thai bank or monthly transfers in of at least 65,000 is "legal", other methods are dodgy at best, downright illegal at worst.

 

You're a rich man - by my standards anyway - just transfer the funds.  Oh, and remember that they need "seasoning" before you get your visa, I can't remember if it's for 2 or 3 months, but I'm sure someone here will tell you.  You'll need some sort of visa if you're in country while that happens  Also, transfer a little extra, there will be an annual charge on the account and you don't want that to drop you below the 800,000!

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, Eocene said:

I talked to an agent who says they can do it for 5K if I have 800K in a Thai bank. But they cant do for combination method. 

Is that for BOTH the Visa application AND the subsequent extension?

Be aware that if it is only for the Visa application, you would be stuck again for the subsequent extension 3 months later and will have to use an agent again.

[sanuk711]

On 3/4/2020 at 10:28 AM, SEtonal said:

The agents are in Pattaya, not Laos.  Agent will charge about 35,000 baht to get you a Thai bank account, a 90 day Non O visa, and a 12 month extension (for a total of 15 months). Using an agent, you do not have to put any money in the bank but the bank might require you to buy accident insurance.

Its less then half that in Udon Thani, & they will get you the visa in most any Thai area ........ I will PM you an agent if you wish to use or just google around there are many.

[KaputtAlreadyNa]

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

Once again, you have a plan, but what you are doing is not the "usual". Bring your plan to your Immigration office. If they don't like it then you can have a discussion about what will work. Be careful who you talk to. If the Immigration officer is not high up what you are told may not hold when you go to get your extension. Ultimately you need to ask yourself how important an extension is and what you are willing to pay for it and have a plan B if things go wrong.

Ultimately you need to ask yourself how important an extension is and what you are willing to pay for it 

Totally agreed, there is always a price, question is are you willing to pay.

Thanks

Warmest

[scubascuba3]

16 hours ago, Max69xl said:

It's not crazy, because a pension isn't paid in portions of $500. I guess that's how immigration reason.

Remember many retirees over 50 don't receive a pension, instead will receive dividends, rent, etc. Immigration haven't grasped yet that those 50 to circ 67 may not be receiving a pension so proving retirement is impossible, but hey they don't care

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Remember many retirees over 50 don't receive a pension, instead will receive dividends, rent, etc. Immigration haven't grasped yet that those 50 to circ 67 may not be receiving a pension so proving retirement is impossible, but hey they don't care

They grasped it in the Police Order, which does mention pension as only one of the options to prove the source of income.

Unfortunately the IOs that are meant to enforce that PoliceOrder often provide their own narrow interpretation to the actual IO rule/regulation, or even make up rules of their own.

 

[moe666]

18 hours ago, Eocene said:

Yes, I am on a 30-day visa exempt. I could but I don't want to at present. I also checked Penang requirements but they want a proof of retirement. May be I could get a sworn statement from US embassy that I retired and try Penang.

 

There is also uncertainty in that. Before leaving  US, i already initiated a $500 USD last week that arrived on March 2 in Bangkok Bank coded as FTT. I will continue my weekly transfer of $500 USD every friday and that will reach my Bangkok bank on the following Monday. 

 

 

 

 

You are behind on the rules that have been changed in regard to money deposits or transfers. Your 500 a week will not cut it for starters it isn't 65,000b and they want one transfer around the same time each month and close to the 65,000b amount. The 800,000 in the bank amount has worked out as easier for some people. You are trying to work off old rules and they will no longer work.

[jimn]

All this hastle when you dont need too. In my honest opinion if you want to plan for the following year I would definately use an agent. You can get your conversion done and a 1 year extension of stay based on retirement for about 17k in Pattaya. You can then transfer your monthly payments as per your plan and do it yourself next year.

[UKresonant]

16 minutes ago, moe666 said:

You are behind on the rules that have been changed in regard to money deposits or transfers. Your 500 a week will not cut it for starters it isn't 65,000b and they want one transfer around the same time each month and close to the 65,000b amount. The 800,000 in the bank amount has worked out as easier for some people. You are trying to work off old rules and they will no longer work.

That is a good point, you can design things around the current rules and perhaps in less than 18months those rules become old rules, and also do not work....????

Though there was a relatively long run of stability before the end of 2018. I presume that is what a lot of posts refer to for a context

Edited March 5, 2020 by UKresonant

[scubascuba3]

36 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

They grasped it in the Police Order, which does mention pension as only one of the options to prove the source of income.

Unfortunately the IOs that are meant to enforce that PoliceOrder often provide their own narrow interpretation to the actual IO rule/regulation, or even make up rules of their own.

 

That was the police order around about Big Jokes time which some\maybe all IOs ignore

[scubascuba3]

19 minutes ago, jimn said:

All this hastle when you dont need too. In my honest opinion if you want to plan for the following year I would definately use an agent. You can get your conversion done and a 1 year extension of stay based on retirement for about 17k in Pattaya. You can then transfer your monthly payments as per your plan and do it yourself next year.

Yes using the agent takes the pain away in fact they treat you like VIPs.  The lowest cost i could find using an agent was 20k baht for 3+12 then following year 12.5k, Immigration wanted 1k less but who wants to deal with them if you can avoid it

[natway09]

Just put the 800K in a Thai bank as they request.

Sooner or later this will be the only way as spoken before.

 

[Thomas J]

Eocene

If you want to keep your money in USD I know that Citibank in Bangkok offers a dual currency account.  Minimum is $30,000 USD.  I think Bangkok bank also does.  I would check with immigration if USD in Thailand bank qualifies or if it has to be in THB.  If in THB then you would get shaved by the bank for the conversion to THB  

[maprao]

Just open a bank and deposit 800k there for retirement purposes.  It is a fraction of your wealth.

Leave it and don't touch it. Look upon it as a necessity for retirement. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by maprao

[lopburi3]

6 minutes ago, maprao said:

Just open a bank and deposit 800k there for retirement purposes.  It is a fraction of your wealth.

Leave it and don't touch it. Look upon it as a necessity for retirement. 

But it should not be a necessity for retirement - some of us have been here 20-30 years and this was not a requirement (indeed if using bank deposit you were expected to use those funds to support your stay).  Now the rules have changed without any grandfather provisions for people with few years to live and even fewer options.  Not nice by any measure.

[maprao]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

But it should not be a necessity for retirement - some of us have been here 20-30 years and this was not a requirement (indeed if using bank deposit you were expected to use those funds to support your stay).  Now the rules have changed without any grandfather provisions for people with few years to live and even fewer options.  Not nice by any measure.

I thought they had grandfathered  people in who had stayed in Thailand  continuously.  We had a poster not so long ago posting he was still using 200k grandfathered in for his extension of stay based on retirement. He had never let it lapse and the amount remained the same. (200k pa)

 

My point was for the op with over $700k USD it should not be a problem to set aside 800k baht.

 

I neither have that nor will I ever. So I will have to plan better.

[Eocene]

2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

If you want to keep your money in USD I know that Citibank in Bangkok offers a dual currency account.  Minimum is $30,000 USD.  I think Bangkok bank also does.  I would check with immigration if USD in Thailand bank qualifies or if it has to be in THB.  If in THB then you would get shaved by the bank for the conversion to THB  

That is the not the issue. In the US also I don't keep 30K USD in a savings account. Right now I keep my money in 401K in a target fund and withdraw 500 USD every week for expenses. Wanted to do the same. Withdraw $500 and send it to Bangkok bank. But I can withdraw $2000 USD and send to bangkok bank every month and keep 300BHT in another account in Thailand in local currency. 

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, maprao said:

We had a poster not so long ago posting he was still using 200k grandfathered in for his extension of stay based on retirement.

Indeed that rule was grandfathered when deposit amount increased - but the recent change was to 800k in account 5 months a year and 400k always and there was no provision for those already on the 800k 2 months a year to remain using that.

 

4 minutes ago, maprao said:

My point was for the op with over $700k USD it should not be a problem to set aside 800k baht.

And my point was that after 20-30 years of retirement most will not have that amount in a nest egg available.

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, Eocene said:

Put just $600 USD every month in a 401K with matching employer contributions for 20-years in a target fund 20-year in the future and watch the magic of capital gains with compounding interest. 

I understand your point but mine was for those already in or who believe in the old system that are now faced with a new ball field and perhaps not the power to hit it over the extended fence.

[Nowisee]

7 hours ago, natway09 said:

Just put the 800K in a Thai bank as they request.

Sooner or later this will be the only way as spoken before.

 

5 hours ago, maprao said:

Just open a bank and deposit 800k there for retirement purposes.  It is a fraction of your wealth.

Leave it and don't touch it. Look upon it as a necessity for retirement. 

Yep... Just do it and try to accept that it's the requirement to play in their sandbox.  It's most likely going to be a similar (or even more) requirement in other countries and if not... coming soon. 
 

5 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Eocene

If you want to keep your money in USD I know that Citibank in Bangkok offers a dual currency account.  Minimum is $30,000 USD.  I think Bangkok bank also does.  I would check with immigration if USD in Thailand bank qualifies or if it has to be in THB.  If in THB then you would get shaved by the bank for the conversion to THB  

Open a Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) account at the Bangkok Bank.  Keep it in your home currently.  You can transfer to baht when it's favorable or just leave it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Nowisee

[Maestro]

Removed two off-topic posts.

 

This topic has run its course and is now closed.