10 hours ago, ukrules said:

I think you're underestimating the situation.

 

You're going to be in for the shock of a lifetime over the next few months as society unravels and breaks down.

all the Dairy Queens and 7/11's will be covered with flowers

2 minutes ago, Aussieroaming said:

All I can say is that country's closing borders, stopping entry of foreigners and closing down businesses isn't something these countries have done for giggles. This virus must have the potential to do far more than just kill the infirm or elderly. The real potential is a mutation to a more virilent strain before they can find an effective immunisation medium.

the Earth has finally said enough, and will shake off human kind like a flea of a dogs back

18 hours ago, Lacessit said:

There is panic in high places.

Chiang Rai is business as usual, with the exception of the Night Bazaar. All the beer bars and girls on Jedyod Road are open for business.

People here are wearing masks mainly for the air pollution. Hand sanitisers at Big C and Central Festival.

Maybe those that subscribe to the notion that the cooler, less crowded and somehow more effete northern Thai ambiance is some sort of Covid-19 inoculation?

 

Not quite. Looking at this website:

 

 

 

 

 

Note that they quarantined 33 of the Thai workers that returned from Korea up there... somewhere.

 

 

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

You believe that your actions are sane. I believe your actions are selfish.

You obviously care nothing for others, and so just sit behind a tree and throw rocks at people who demonstrate social responsibility. It's really a shame to see.

 

There are people who believe the mothership will come get them next Christmas and take them to a distant planet. What you believe or not is really none of my concern.

 

I don't believe, I know for a fact, that I don't have the Covid19 virus so I will keep going out whenever I please. It's called freedom. 

 

To sit on your backside at home is not 'social responsibility', if you're healthy it's just a waste of life. Now that's a real shame to see. 

 

And no, I care nothing for your virtue signalling. 

One masseuse with the virus could infect many people every day. And since they come into contact with lots of people every day, they are higher risk.

 

I would think this very easy to understand.

Barbers and dentists?

18 hours ago, glennb6 said:

and when rules become tyranny....

 

" That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

 

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.-- "

 

woops, sorry, wrong country - here they just have military coops.

Damnnnnnnn that's a lot of difficult words . Did you have a spliffy in a jiffy before you wrote this ??? 

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Maybe those that subscribe to the notion that the cooler, less crowded and somehow more effete northern Thai ambiance is some sort of Covid-19 inoculation?

 

Not quite. Looking at this website:

 

 

 

 

 

Note that they quarantined 33 of the Thai workers that returned from Korea up there... somewhere.

 

 

33 of the 5500 that returned ????????????

16 hours ago, Canuck1966 said:

why should you follow the rules like a sheep?

I think it’s called altruism- where you might have to put the needs of others ( for example the elderly ) above your own selfish needs .

16 hours ago, donnacha said:

This particular virus is extremely contagious and is asymptotic during its most infectious stage.

It does not matter how scrupulously clean someone looks, they can catch it and spread it just as easily as anyone else. Given the nature of their job, masseuses would be a higher than average risk.

You probably won't have any problems if you catch it yourself, just a bad flu for a week or so, but you have to think about whether you will be in contact with anyone over the age of 60, or with diabetes, very common in Thailand. If you have a girlfriend, she could spread it to her parents. You could even spread it from one masseuse to another, who in turn would spread it to vulnerable people in her family.

If this thing takes hold in an older or otherwise vulnerable person, you get "wet lungs", meaning you essentially drown from the inside. You will not be allowed any visitors and the only humans you see will be wearing hazmat suits.

If they treat you with a ventilator, you have about a 80% chance of surviving, but with permanent cognitive damage from the ventilator, permanent lung damage from the flu, and permanent kidney damage from the medication.

If they run out of ventilators - which they will, very soon - the only treatment for wet lungs is to position the patient upside down, in an attempt to allow gravity to drain him, and hope he develops his own antibody fightback before he drowns. That is deeply uncomfortable and only works in around 10% of cases. That is why the death rates are so high in Italy - they simply had fewer ventilators than China and Korea.

Again, not a worry for most people, but the folks over 60 are in more trouble than they realize.

I like your comment just until the last 3 lines where you started to talk about people over 60yo , it will affect every person with underlying illness just as hard doesn't matter what age . Someone who's 28 and has lung problems or some kind off hartdeseace also has a big chance of not surviving . Diabetese , overweight , unhealthy , underlying illness it will hit people of every age . 

The hypocrisy of this whole thing about closing businesses is the businesses that they chose to close. They chose to close traditional thai massage shops but they allowed a hair salon to remain open. There is no difference between the contact between a massage and a haircut and shave. Close bars but allow restaurants to remain open, the bar staff can get the virus just as easy as the restaurant staff can from a customer and vise-versa. If they took a serious approach then they would close all public venues, bars, restaurants, hair salons, massage shops, markets, because all of these venues are easy places for this virus to be picked up and passed on to others.

1 hour ago, Aussieroaming said:

All I can say is that country's closing borders, stopping entry of foreigners and closing down businesses isn't something these countries have done for giggles. This virus must have the potential to do far more than just kill the infirm or elderly. The real potential is a mutation to a more virilent strain before they can find an effective immunisation medium.

We are all Italy minus X days. The only question is what is X, not what is coming. 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-they-call-it-the-apocalypse-inside-italys-hardest-hit-hospital-11960597?fbclid=IwAR1yaIYK2sL0Pb7LkuHU8MHSIKMdb4_i5Gps1JvF0iVWmTXVYRYnWkURK1s

 

and

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130?fbclid=IwAR3p7X33ZZChsAwAeXo_a8CvDtoSH6DiRvyItl00FqppbNbJ40kOV2yEebE

16 hours ago, donnacha said:

This particular virus is extremely contagious and is asymptotic during its most infectious stage.

It does not matter how scrupulously clean someone looks, they can catch it and spread it just as easily as anyone else. Given the nature of their job, masseuses would be a higher than average risk.

You probably won't have any problems if you catch it yourself, just a bad flu for a week or so, but you have to think about whether you will be in contact with anyone over the age of 60, or with diabetes, very common in Thailand. If you have a girlfriend, she could spread it to her parents. You could even spread it from one masseuse to another, who in turn would spread it to vulnerable people in her family.

If this thing takes hold in an older or otherwise vulnerable person, you get "wet lungs", meaning you essentially drown from the inside. You will not be allowed any visitors and the only humans you see will be wearing hazmat suits.

If they treat you with a ventilator, you have about a 80% chance of surviving, but with permanent cognitive damage from the ventilator, permanent lung damage from the flu, and permanent kidney damage from the medication.

If they run out of ventilators - which they will, very soon - the only treatment for wet lungs is to position the patient upside down, in an attempt to allow gravity to drain him, and hope he develops his own antibody fightback before he drowns. That is deeply uncomfortable and only works in around 10% of cases. That is why the death rates are so high in Italy - they simply had fewer ventilators than China and Korea.

Again, not a worry for most people, but the folks over 60 are in more trouble than they realize.

Well, you have picked on the masseuses but you have failed to mention another job that has just as much contact with the customer as the masseuse and yet their shops are not closed and that is your hairdresser who is running their unclean hands through your hair and around your face while cutting and styling your hair and whilst standing over your face breathing on you whilst they give you your shave, but their shops are allowed to remain open. The staff at a bar (which is now closed) can spread this virus exactly the same as the staff at a restaurant which is allowed to remain open. So these laws are hypocritical and it shows a complete lack of reasonable thinking about the health and safety of the people.

44 minutes ago, Unify said:

One masseuse with the virus could infect many people every day. And since they come into contact with lots of people every day, they are higher risk.

 

I would think this very easy to understand.

How many customers does a hairdresser come in contact with? A hairdresser breathing into the face of a customer having a shave wouldn't infect that customer would it? Hairdressing salons are not closed. There is no difference between a bar and a restaurant as both the customers and the staff can infect each other exactly the same which ever one it is, but the bars are closed and the restaurants remain open. These laws are badly thought out and it is only doing a selected protection.

19 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Who said that life must be fair? Just have to follow the rules. It ain´t that hard.

George Washington had a different opinion.

I'm not that concerned about the cornholio, sensible measures should be taken as with any flu outbreak but it's how its being used by the ptb thats the big concern, shutting down the economy, destroying lives, self isolation, threats of imprisonment, stripping of personal liberties, how come none of this happened during all the other viral outbreaks that, according to msm, were going to result in mass casualties world wide.  Something else going on

22 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

We are all Italy minus X days. The only question is what is X, not what is coming. 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-they-call-it-the-apocalypse-inside-italys-hardest-hit-hospital-11960597?fbclid=IwAR1yaIYK2sL0Pb7LkuHU8MHSIKMdb4_i5Gps1JvF0iVWmTXVYRYnWkURK1s

 

and

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130?fbclid=IwAR3p7X33ZZChsAwAeXo_a8CvDtoSH6DiRvyItl00FqppbNbJ40kOV2yEebE

80+ age average with pre existing is the major issue in deaths i would say ...Its already been stated only 2 deaths have been attributed to coronavirus alone all others organ failure due to other conditions    

This should not be one bit of a surprise to anyone T.I.T.  so when it comes to the Virus what can we expect since no other country really has any idea or solution so when it comes to Thailand it is " Monkey see Monkey do " that means we have some else idea now how the hell do we apply it! 

19 hours ago, glennb6 said:

and when rules become tyranny....

 

" That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

 

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.-- "

 

woops, sorry, wrong country - here they just have military coops.

Are the “ military coops” where they detain the dissenters?

18 hours ago, shdmn said:

What I think is stupid at this point is stopping all international flights.  It is everywhere and all the major spreading is internal to each country now.  It made sense to isolate China when it was mostly just there.  It probably makes sense for Italy and Iran right now.  That's about it.

 

It also makes sense to prevent putting lots of people close together but in that case you should stop all domestic flights as well.

china has had zero internal new cases for the past few days. 

(okay, if you choose to believe their numbers....)

only cases in the dozens intercepted at airport arrival screenings.

even hubei only has around 5k still infected.

 

unless i missed the news, china has not shut down international flights, but any that are operating are doing so at a much reduced schedule and with more health screenings.

 

at peak virus, they did shut down almost everything, but still had open supermarkets, convenience stores, pharmacies (not allowed inside, place order at the door), fast food (pick up or delivery only).  schools, other businesses, factories, city buses and taxis all shut down for 3-6 weeks depending on province.

21 minutes ago, Mac98 said:

George Washington had a different opinion.

That was a long time ago. Ever heard of evolution?

The fallout and cost of these extreme draconian measures around the globe could be far more costly to the world economy than any assumed benefits. More deaths could come afterwards from suicide, crime and poverty when this ends and nobody has a job or a pension and their savings/retirement accounts are wiped out. 

 

TO PUT THIS IN PERSPECTIVE...

 

What really slays me is that this Wuhan Flu has killed 11,000 worldwide in 3-4 months...YET tobacco related deaths are approx 22,000 each and EVERY DAY but smoking is not banned.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tobacco

 

The common seasonable flu kills approx 500,000 EVERY year, yet the world carries on normally. Motor vehicle deaths are approx 3700 each and every day, but not a second thought given when getting out on the roads.

 

Cardiovascular disease offs a mind-blowing 17 MILLION folks per year (46,500 every DAY!!!). The kicker here is many of those deaths are PREVENTABLE and due to lifestyle CHOICES based on bad diet and lack of exercise...but people continue to gorge on unhealthy foods lead sedentary lives. 

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/cardiovascular-diseases-(cvds)

 

Mosquito borne deaths are approx 1 million/year...(2700+/day).

 

EVERYONE has a much better chance of dying from any of the above causes than "Wuhan Flu". This mass hysteria, panic and extreme overreaction is ridiculous. If nothing else, hopefully the hard facts here puts things in a better perspective. This virus is NOT the end of the world and not even close...even though the media and governments are making it seem so. 

2 hours ago, Unify said:

One masseuse with the virus could infect many people every day. And since they come into contact with lots of people every day, they are higher risk.

 

I would think this very easy to understand.

Not really. Very unlikely.

 

The masseuses all wear face masks now and scrupulously wash their hands with soap.

 

At least in the excellent spa I go to.

17 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Yes, it is everywhere, but unfortunately here is what we are seeing in real time;

- Snowbirds from Canada  have been returning home. Many of them have refused to self isolate such that they present a risk to the general population.

- Almost all of the infections in parts of the USA and Canada have been sourced from travelers, specifically the EU, and Caribbean. 

- Some EU countries who have had fewer international travelers have had fewer infections.

- China is seeing the reintroduction of infection because of people coming back from the EU.

 

The international  suspension is just that, a temporary measure. Ideally, all international travelers would self isolate before and after traveling but many refuse. One need only look at TVF to see the mentality of some people. Or  look at the idiots congregating in the outside beer bars.

 

Domestic flights in  Canada & the USA  are quickly ramping down from 50% capacity to probably  25%. The  domestic travel is allowed because there is a need for some to travel. 

Some EU countries  have selfish, ignorant populations who refused to accept  the need for self isolation. Others have. Why should the responsible countries and people suffer because some only think of themselves.

 

After seeing the idiots partying and the crowded venues in the UK, why would anyone want to continue international travel with the UK? Same for  France and Italy. The Italians are getting it now.  Look at the jerks on spring break in Florida.  Many people who chose to get on an airplane to travel internationally as much as a month ago were aware of the crisis. They must accept responsibility for their own choices. Those of us who saw this coming in January and acted accordingly have a right to protect ourselves

Well said.

1 hour ago, Sharp said:

80+ age average with pre existing is the major issue in deaths i would say ...

You can say it all you like.. its not true.. 

45 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

The fallout and cost of these extreme draconian measures around the globe could be far more costly to the world economy than any assumed benefits. More deaths could come afterwards from suicide, crime and poverty when this ends and nobody has a job or a pension and their savings/retirement accounts are wiped out. 

 

TO PUT THIS IN PERSPECTIVE...

 

What really slays me is that this Wuhan Flu has killed 11,000 worldwide in 3-4 months...YET tobacco related deaths are approx 22,000 each and EVERY DAY but smoking is not banned.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tobacco

 

The common seasonable flu kills approx 500,000 EVERY year, yet the world carries on normally. Motor vehicle deaths are approx 3700 each and every day, but not a second thought given when getting out on the roads.

 

Cardiovascular disease offs a mind-blowing 17 MILLION folks per year (46,500 every DAY!!!). The kicker here is many of those deaths are PREVENTABLE and due to lifestyle CHOICES based on bad diet and lack of exercise...but people continue to gorge on unhealthy foods lead sedentary lives. 

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/cardiovascular-diseases-(cvds)

 

Mosquito borne deaths are approx 1 million/year...(2700+/day).

 

EVERYONE has a much better chance of dying from any of the above causes than "Wuhan Flu". This mass hysteria, panic and extreme overreaction is ridiculous. If nothing else, hopefully the hard facts here puts things in a better perspective. This virus is NOT the end of the world and not even close...even though the media and governments are making it seem so. 

Good point on Tobacco, but that is a choice, one which can be avoided. 

The same goes for cardio vascular disease as a result of poor diet, avoidable by choice. 

 

More can be done to ease the case load of deaths related to mosquitos which usually are from poverty stricken areas, with poor medical facilities and relying on aid. 

 

Seasonal flu is also a major killer, but as much is being done as can be about that, there are vaccines and the majority of those who succumb have existing chronic conditions or compromised immune systems, much the same with Covid-19 then. 

 

BUT.... what we don’t know about Covid-19 is how much it will spread. 

 

China seems to have stabilised.

But for the rest of the world the case load of ‘reported cases’ has been increasing by a factor of 10 every 14 days or so.

 

18-Feb: 1000 reported cases (outside of China)

2-March: 10,000 reported cases 

16-March: 100,000 reported cases 

30-March: 1 million cases ???

13-April: 10 million cases ??

27-April 100,000 million cases ?

11-May 1 billion cases ???????  Of course, the increase has to slow down at some point - the issue is we don’t know right now. Isolation is the only sure way to slow down the growth in cases.

[source: www.arcgis.com] 

 

We know what all the other illnesses, viruses, smoking related deaths, cardio vascular deaseas, mosquito related deaths etc are, we are trying (not very well) to educate people and stop these. 

 

This time next year we will have vaccines and a handle on the infection rates and mortality rates of covid. 

 

We know that it contributes to the death of old people and those with compromised immune systems and chronic respiratory conditions - we know that these poeple have died because of Covid-19, they may have died if they had contracted Influenza, however most of those in high risk groups have been vaccinated against Influenza. 

 

Covid-19 is in its infancy. Its better do so something about now while we can, than do nothing and risk the unknown because we fear for the world economy. People will suffer, they will die and there will be a significant knock on impact as a result of these isolation measures, but the alternative could be so much greater. There are no right answers with this issue, its just a case of better the devil we know - Covid-19 we don’t yet know.

 

There’s no reason to panic. But to ignore the potential would be silly of us all. 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Not really. Very unlikely.

 

The masseuses all wear face masks now and scrupulously wash their hands with soap.

 

At least in the excellent spa I go to.

My wife has always worn a mask and she has always used alcohol gel on her hands between each customer and the linen on the massage bed is changed between each customer but she was still forced to close the shop whilst the beauty salon next door was allowed to remain open with no restrictions.

Just can not deal with no message!! Really concerned about the virus aren't you!

4 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

My wife has always worn a mask and she has always used alcohol gel on her hands between each customer and the linen on the massage bed is changed between each customer but she was still forced to close the shop whilst the beauty salon next door was allowed to remain open with no restrictions.

Exactly, this has been common practice in the top spas for a very long time.

 

I really hope we will not lose the best masseuses in Chiang Mai and that they will go elsewhere, many are not from here.

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

There’s no reason to panic. But to ignore the potential would be silly of us all. 

https://reason.com/2020/03/20/if-covid-19-killed-1-4-of-people-with-symptoms-in-wuhan-the-overall-fatality-rate-is-likely-to-be-much-lower-than-people-feared/?itm_source=parsely-api