Asinine and unfair closings

[1FinickyOne]

On 3/20/2020 at 8:42 PM, Trujillo said:

You are in close contact with one person,

that's enough right there... 

[ThaiPauly]

17 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

My thanks goes out to those keeping to their homes, not spreading the virus to others.

 

Canthai55, there is a difference between being concerned for the welfare of others and fear.

You seem to believe people stay home out of fear...

In the words of Anais Ninn; "We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are."

 

 

 

 

You believe that your actions are sane. I believe your actions are selfish.

You obviously care nothing for others, and so just sit behind a tree and throw rocks at people who demonstrate social responsibility. It's really a shame to see.

 

The OP stated that gyms should remain open

Well I have a friend I'm the UK who now has cov19 that he caught from his son who caught it at his gym

 

But that is England not here where things are really under control

[Trujillo]

Yes, I got some zeroes infection and added more 0s than I should. Should read: 

 

"But oh, the danger! So horrible so far! Already ONE (1) person has died out of the entire population of 69,040,000."

 

 

[gk10002000]

On 3/20/2020 at 9:50 AM, Lacessit said:

There is panic in high places.

Chiang Rai is business as usual, with the exception of the Night Bazaar. All the beer bars and girls on Jedyod Road are open for business.

People here are wearing masks mainly for the air pollution. Hand sanitisers at Big C and Central Festival.

Open eh?  Man I saw videos on youtube of Pattay walking street a ghost town, lights out etc. 

[saengd]

2 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

Great post

people don’t understand the severity of the virus, still thinking of booze and whores

i mean get a life

this is the last place anyone with half a brain wants to be. 
and even with things shutting Moro every day, there are still people talking about coming to Thailand 

Getting a life is what it's all about for me, or rather keeping it I should say!

 

It depends on a number of factors, age, how long you've been here, where your family is located, what facilities you may have back home. For me personally I've been here for twenty years, my home is here and my wife is here. I do have a flat back in the UK but yesterday I made the commitment to the tenant to let her remain for at least the next four months, even though I have a return ticket for mid May. If there's going to be a health crisis and a crunch for medical care I'd rather be here than back at home in the UK where the NHS is already over stretched and older people are already being prioritized out of the treatment queue. At least here I can carry on my life as normal plus I don't have to travel, we don't have to go out hardly at all and if push comes to shove I may actually be able to buy some care at a private hospital....I'm 70.

[ThaiPauly]

4 minutes ago, saengd said:

Getting a life is what it's all about for me, or rather keeping it I should say!

 

It depends on a number of factors, age, how long you've been here, where your family is located, what facilities you may have back home. For me personally I've been here for twenty years, my home is here and my wife is here. I do have a flat back in the UK but yesterday I made the commitment to the tenant to let her remain for at least the next four months, even though I have a return ticket for mid May. If there's going to be a health crisis and a crunch for medical care I'd rather be here than back at home in the UK where the NHS is already over stretched and older people are already being prioritized out of the treatment queue. At least here I can carry on my life as normal plus I don't have to travel, we don't have to go out hardly at all and if push comes to shove I may actually be able to buy some care at a private hospital....I'm 70.

I have a flat back home as well. Trouble is my tenant was self employed and his work has dried up and he can't pay the rent. 

Bit of a <deleted> that

[saengd]

6 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

I have a flat back home as well. Trouble is my tenant was self employed and his work has dried up and he can't pay the rent. 

Bit of a <deleted> that

I imagine that quite a number of people will be using the same reason not to pay rent, I wonder how many are actually true.

[Gandtee]

On 3/20/2020 at 11:33 PM, orchis said:

do you get massaged with a 6 foot pole?

No. A five foot Thai.

[pookondee]

3 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

Great post

people don’t understand the severity of the virus, still thinking of booze and whores

i mean get a life

this is the last place anyone with half a brain wants to be. 
and even with things shutting Moro every day, there are still people talking about coming to Thailand 

It makes you wonder doesn't it

 

There are still people asking about flight plans, visas, restrictions for proposed travel in April/May, as if anyone would know.

 

At this stage it looks like people will not be able to get into Thailand now anyway, and i think in the near future those folk will thank their lucky stars that the decision to not go was made for them.

 

In my own thoughts i realise at this stage its not helpful chastising folks who have travelled there recently, as people are stuck there with borders and flights closed.

I know people who are stuck there and it could easily have been any of us (who have left) also stuck there, had it been under other circumstances. 

 

I just sincerely hope time DOES prove that we are being over alarmist and paranoid about this and it all works out fine.

 

Lets not call them out negatively, but instead offer positive solutions and hopes for the folks caught over there.

 

Reading the various threads lately,

there are quite a few issues and problems popping up that none of us would have envisioned just a few weeks ago.

 

Good luck all and stay safe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FolkGuitar]

2 hours ago, Trujillo said:

Yes, I got some zeroes infection and added more 0s than I should. Should read: 

 

"But oh, the danger! So horrible so far! Already ONE (1) person has died out of the entire population of 69,040,000."

 

 

 

What number of deaths have you decided would be enough for you to care about?

How many of your neighbors have to get sick for you to care about them?

 

It really shouldn't be about how to keep yourself safe. You know you will live forever.

But it's time to consider how you might affect the other guy. He might not.

[canthai55]

Sure a lot of "Holier Than Thou" people posting about C-19

[saengd]

I think it's pretty sad that one particular age group doesn't get it and have said effectively, I'm alright Jack and BTW I never did like boomers anyway.

[elgenon]

So the same masseuse comes into contact with how many people per day?

 

How many people touch surfaces you touch? chairs etc

 

Just wondering

[wwest5829]

On 3/20/2020 at 9:23 PM, glennb6 said:

and when rules become tyranny....

 

" That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

 

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.-- "

 

woops, sorry, wrong country - here they just have military coops.

Yep, and thus a different set of rules to know and follow ...

[1FinickyOne]

On 3/20/2020 at 11:03 PM, shdmn said:

What I think is stupid at this point is stopping all international flights.

It is like getting into a petri dish... I hear they put you in your seat with tweezers... 

[1FinickyOne]

11 minutes ago, elgenon said:

So the same masseuse comes into contact with how many people per day?

 

How many people touch surfaces you touch? chairs etc

 

Just wondering

none these days.. business is very slow... 

[Logosone]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Yes,..,. maybe ‘god’ slowed the spread...  Or maybe, just maybe the lock-down on Wuhan and social isolation in the rest of China had an impact on slowing down the spread of the virus such that it has been brought under control. 

 

Maybe, maybe not. I'm an atheist, I did not say 'God' slowed the spread, please don't put words in my mouth I never said.

 

However, there are any number of other explanations as to why the spread in China has has come to an end, we do not have any evidence that it was 'social distancing' do we?  

 

We can not even be sure the spread in China has come to an end, this could be the end of the first wave, with a second and third wave to come, which could be worse than the first wave.

 

I just find it a bit hard to believe, like you do, that a lock down of a city like Wuhan, where 50 per cent of inhabitants had already left by the time the lockdown came into place, made the crucial difference. Do you have evidence for your belief?

 

 

[Logosone]

Let's look at SARS, a cousin of Covid19 which shares 70% of the genomic make up and is also a coronavirus.

 

It just disappeared. Methods used to control it included testing, isolating patients and screening people at airports and other places where they might spread the virus, The strategy is simple: If sick people can be stopped from infecting healthy people, the disease will eventually die off. SARS did not disappear because everyone stayed at home. SARS disappeared because the sick were prevented from infecting the healthy.

 

It is the SICK people that need to be isolated. Not healthy ones. Isolating healthy people is pointless.

[Logosone]

7 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I am curious as to know how the masseuse remains at least 1.5meters away from the customer when delivering a service.

 

 

She doesn't have to be 1.5 metres away from the customer if she is healthy and not a carrier,  and the customer is healthy.

 

Only sick people and carriers infect other people. 

 

If you isolate a healthy person from a healthy person you've accomplished nothing.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Logosone

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

It is the SICK people that need to be isolated. Not healthy ones. Isolating healthy people is pointless.

That would require higher rates of population testing to identify those already infected, there currently is not the person power or equipment to do so.

More testing more identified infected, but when it has already spread so far, this is a mamouth task, especially in rural regions of all countries

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

She doesn't have to be 1.5 metres away from the customer if she is healthy and not a carrier,  and the customer is healthy.

Was she tested and proven to be negative, or was she asymptomatic? No one knows, which is why social distancing has been implimented. Incubation period seems to be 3-14 days, but still infective at that stage it is deemed.

 

[Trujillo]

Check out the facts here: 
Evidence over Hysteria

 

Air-based transmission or untraceable community spread is very unlikely. According to WHO’s COVID-19 lead Maria Van Kerkhove, true community based spreading is very rare. The data from China shows that community-based spread was only a very small handful of cases. “This virus is not circulating in the community, even in the highest incidence areas across China,” Van Kerkhove said.

“Transmission by fine aerosols in the air over long distances is not one of the main causes of spread. Most of the 2,055 infected hospital workers were either infected at home or in the early phase of the outbreak in Wuhan when hospital safeguards were not raised yet,” she said.

True community spread involves transmission where people get infected in public spaces and there is no way to trace back the source of infection. WHO believes that is not what the Chinese data shows. If community spread was super common, it wouldn’t be possible to reduce the new cases through “social distancing”.

“We have never seen before a respiratory pathogen that’s capable of community transmission but at the same time which can also be contained with the right measures. If this was an influenza epidemic, we would have expected to see widespread community transmission across the globe by now and efforts to slow it down or contain it would not be feasible,” said Tedros Adhanom, Director-General of WHO.

Another way of looking at virality and asymptotic spread is the number of flight attendants, airport staff, or pilots that have tested positive for COVID-19. Out of the thousands of flights since November 2019, only a handful of airport and airline staff have tested positive (such as AA pilot, some BA staff, and several TSA employees).

Outside of medical and hospital staff, these individuals are in greatest contact with infected persons in confined spaces. Despite having no protective gear and most likely these people were asymptomatic, airline and airport staff aren’t likely to catch COVID-19 compared to the rest of the population. Those employed in the travel sector are infected at a lower rate than the general population or healthcare workers.

“We still believe, looking at the data, that the force of infection here, the major driver, is people who are symptomatic, unwell, and transmitting to others along the human-to-human route,” Dr. Mike Ryan of WHO Emergencies Program.

[saengd]

9 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Let's look at SARS, a cousin of Covid19 which shares 70% of the genomic make up and is also a coronavirus.

 

It just disappeared. Methods used to control it included testing, isolating patients and screening people at airports and other places where they might spread the virus, The strategy is simple: If sick people can be stopped from infecting healthy people, the disease will eventually die off. SARS did not disappear because everyone stayed at home. SARS disappeared because the sick were prevented from infecting the healthy.

 

It is the SICK people that need to be isolated. Not healthy ones. Isolating healthy people is pointless.

Gets my vote for the most stupid post of the week! 

 

How in gods name are you supposed to separate all the sick people from the healthy ones, all at the same moment in time, synchronized testing perhaps!!! Get it wrong by one minute and the pattern changes!

[Logosone]

8 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

That would require higher rates of population testing to identify those already infected, there currently is not the person power or equipment to do so.

More testing more identified infected, but when it has already spread so far, this is a mamouth task, especially in rural regions of all countries

Of course in Germany testing is under way which in terms of quantity is larger than all the testing done by other major countries combined.

 

It is within the power of German labs to identify large numbers, in the six figures, of infected, and these are then isolated. Because Germany has 500,000 hospital beds, more than the UK, Italy or France.

 

What we see therefore is a very low death rate in Germany.  They are identifying and isolating the sick. 

 

It could be done, if governments had prepared properly. After all they had a warning in 2012 when the Robert Koch Institute warned of a coronavirus pandemic. That paper is online.

 

Now governments are overcompensating.

 

Again, if you isolate the healthy non-carriers from the healthy you've accomplished nothing.

 

 

[bkk6060]

25 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Not healthy ones. Isolating healthy people is pointless.

You may be the most uninformed person on earth.

[Logosone]

4 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

You may be the most uninformed person on earth.

I am very well informed, which is why I can guarantee you that isolating healthy non-carriers from healthy people will accomplish nothing.

 

Those who should be isolated are the carriers and sick. Not healthy people.

[JimGant]

Quote

We can not even be sure the spread in China has come to an end, this could be the end of the first wave, with a second and third wave to come, which could be worse than the first wave.

Indeed. This is pretty scary stuff, as we're not even sure about how long immunity lasts after a person is infected (and, of course, subsequently survives). Until a vaccine, which may not be totally effective, this has potential iterations. Anyway, read the latest The Economist. It's dedicated to this subject, and has, per usual, sharp research and readability. And it covers in detail what it is we're talking about on this thread, i.e., selective vs. total shutdown, without the hairbrained insertions.

 

Quote

Those who should be isolated are the carriers and sick. Not healthy people.

And how do you isolate the carriers when they show no symptoms, and universal testing is still months away? Are you a Fox News contributor?

 

Quote

I think it's pretty sad that one particular age group doesn't get it and have said effectively, I'm alright Jack and BTW I never did like boomers anyway.

Saengd, you're showing your age. This group is no different than we were back in our invincible years. Sadly, they just might have a far superior foe than we ever did at that age. Meanwhile, when I watch them happily have spring break on the Florida beaches, I can only smile, with a little remorse.

 

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Those who should be isolated are the carriers and sick. Not healthy people.

But they must be identified first, which curently in  Thailand and many other countries cannot be done, as there is not the expertise or equipment to do so, nor the beds for the sick and self quarantine at home carries its own inherent risks.

 

No one disagrees that isolating the healthy achieves nothing, but until they can be identified with testing then other containment measures have to instigated.

[Logosone]

43 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Indeed. This is pretty scary stuff, as we're not even sure about how long immunity lasts after a person is infected (and, of course, subsequently survives). Until a vaccine, which may not be totally effective, this has potential iterations. Anyway, read the latest The Economist. It's dedicated to this subject, and has, per usual, sharp research and readability. And it covers in detail what it is we're talking about on this thread, i.e., selective vs. total shutdown, without the hairbrained insertions.

 

And how do you isolate the carriers when they show no symptoms, and universal testing is still months away? Are you a Fox News contributor?

 

 

 

It should be noted that in the 2012 risk analysis the Robert Koch Institute did estimate that you would be immune for 360 days, if you've survived an infection, but could infect yourself again after that, because of the virus mutating.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/f20coc/in_2012_the_renown_robert_kochinstitute_did_a/

 

 

Fortunately, for now it looks as if Covid19 is not mutating a lot, but then it's very early days, that could change. Nobody knows.

 

Obviously you'd have to identify carriers, which the German government is doing very successfully.

[Logosone]

25 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

But they must be identified first, which curently in  Thailand and many other countries cannot be done, as there is not the expertise or equipment to do so, nor the beds for the sick and self quarantine at home carries its own inherent risks.

 

No one disagrees that isolating the healthy achieves nothing, but until they can be identified with testing then other containment measures have to instigated.

 

It can not be done? If it can be done in Germany why can't it be done in Thailand? I certainly could be done.

 

If governments would get their thumb out and would actually do something that makes sense.

 

The Germans are showing that it is possible to do tests in the six figure range within weeks.