UK was too slow to act on COVID-19 initially, opposition Labour leader says

[DPKANKAN]

7 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

 

This appears to be a bit confusing. The person who I was having the light hearted exchange with on the topic which started with "I rest my case" was DPKANKAN. Yet above Forethat claims someone is making claims about HIS profession which was never part of the thread. Did I miss something, or is someone operating 2 identities at the same time, not I would assume the done thing. 

Perhaps you should think about the fact that some words have another meaning, but most people, obviously assume the most well known. I will bring in the reel and bait now and click off!! ????????????????

[3NUMBAS]

the dope is trying to score a few browny points at a hard time .better he or any labour fools were in power right now .couldt organise a <deleted> up  in a brewery ..labour out of power for generations

[transam]

Wrong time for pointing fingers...

[7by7]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Nothing in my first paragraph is factually incorrect. Please point out exactly which part of the below paragraph is factually incorrect. 

 

A general election is fought on many issues. Healthcare, pensions, defence, immigration etc. Some people vote for the party that their family has voted for over several decades. The Tories smashed it. Their slogan was Get Brexit Done.

 

In my last paragraph I simply stated that you are backing a losing cause again. Time will tell, but you're not really in a position to accuse someone of being childish given your recent asinine posts.

For some reason my previous response has been removed. Hopefully this one will be acceptable. 

 

I did not say that any part of the paragraph in question was factually incorrect. As your quote of my post clearly shows, what I said was that in it you were contradicting yourself. 

 

The removed post also contained a mea culpa for what you refer to as my "asinine posts." 

[transam]

On 4/16/2020 at 11:27 AM, Surelynot said:

Interesting list, sounds like the type of groups many of the labor party would share a stage with!!!!

 

 

 

 

Resulting in the Good Friday agreement you mean instead of the interminable mayhem the Tories would have invited?

Where murderers walked free.....????

[transam]

On 4/16/2020 at 5:31 PM, 7by7 said:

Indeed, our first past the post, constituency system meant the Tories got a massive majority of seats and so are able to ignore the wishes of the majority of voters. 

 

Something Brexiteers with their constant cries of 'BRINO' accused May of doing throughout her time as PM. 

 

The rest of your post simply reaffirms how terrified you are that Labour under Starmer's leadership stands a real chance at the next election. 

If it was the other way round you would be very quiet.....????

[transam]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Oh well, that's me convinced. I have no idea what 'a..s.d.' actually means but your eloquence, logic and prodigious use of emojis tells me when I have met my intellectual superior. 

It does happen.....????

[7by7]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

If it was the other way round you would be very quiet.....????

If the 2016 referendum had resulted in a win for Remain there would be no Brexit and no Brexit deal, so no need for a referendum on whether or not we, the British people, find that deal acceptable. 

 

But if in the following general election parties calling for another Brexit referendum had received over 50% of the vote then I would support that: because I'm a democrat. 

[Forethat]

On 4/16/2020 at 11:31 AM, 7by7 said:

Indeed, our first past the post, constituency system meant the Tories got a massive majority of seats and so are able to ignore the wishes of the majority of voters. 

 

Something Brexiteers with their constant cries of 'BRINO' accused May of doing throughout her time as PM. 

 

The rest of your post simply reaffirms how terrified you are that Labour under Starmer's leadership stands a real chance at the next election. 

Personally, I want to believe that people vote based on political beliefs. Thus, it wasn't the constituency system that gave Tories a massive majority, it was their manifesto.

 

Complaining and 'being offended' has been the goto-behaviour of most leftists for the past three or four years. Here's a suggestion that makes electoral system irrelevant: be a better candidate!

[Crazy Alex]

8 hours ago, Forethat said:

Personally, I want to believe that people vote based on political beliefs. Thus, it wasn't the constituency system that gave Tories a massive majority, it was their manifesto.

 

Complaining and 'being offended' has been the goto-behaviour of most leftists for the past three or four years. Here's a suggestion that makes electoral system irrelevant: be a better candidate!

I see politics in the UK isn't much different, if at all, from the US. It seems whenever the left loses, it's never about the issues voted on nor the leftist candidate him or herself.

 

Oh and in case this hasn't caught on in the UK yet, whenever a right-leaning party wins a BIG victory, it means the voters want the right-leaning party to work with the ghouls thrown out of office. Of course, there is no such meaning when the opposite happens.

[gk10002000]

Every body could have acted sooner.  And every body could act later in opening things up.  Either end can help the illness and probably death rates and total numbers.  But who decides what and when?  And what will we do about similar things in the future as more people are crowded together, travel between states, and borders, and countries and continents makes spreading anything easier and quicker than in the old days.  look at the black plague.  Took a huge toll and of course took a while to spread by foot travelers, horse travelers, boats, etc.  There is little isolation and separation these days.   The human population could be in for a world of hurt

[Forethat]

29 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Every body could have acted sooner.  And every body could act later in opening things up.  Either end can help the illness and probably death rates and total numbers.  But who decides what and when?  And what will we do about similar things in the future as more people are crowded together, travel between states, and borders, and countries and continents makes spreading anything easier and quicker than in the old days.  look at the black plague.  Took a huge toll and of course took a while to spread by foot travelers, horse travelers, boats, etc.  There is little isolation and separation these days.   The human population could be in for a world of hurt

Totally. And in case anyone thinks this virus is a bit of a nuisance, wait until next serious antibiotic-resistant bacteria outbreak... why not a flesh-eating one?

Edited April 17, 2020 by Forethat

[Nigel Garvie]

6 hours ago, Forethat said:

Totally. And in case anyone thinks this virus is a bit of a nuisance, wait until next serious antibiotic-resistant bacteria outbreak... why not a flesh-eating one?

And in case anyone thinks this virus is a bit of a nuisance, wait until next serious antibiotic-resistant bacteria outbreak

 

This could be interpreted as 1) You don't understand the difference between a bacteria and a virus, in which case back to primary school.

2) You think that bacterial infections spread like viral ones, mainly they don't.

3)  Antibiotic-resistant bacteria outbreaks happen on a similar scale, not usually, they are currently restricted to particular "Hothouse" environments like hospitals.

[Nigel Garvie]

On 4/16/2020 at 6:59 PM, JonnyF said:

A general election is fought on many issues. Healthcare, pensions, defence, immigration etc. Some people vote for the party that their family has voted for over several decades. The Tories smashed it. Their slogan was Get Brexit Done.

 

snip

 

 

No the traditional loyalty of the working class to Labour has been disappearing since the 80s. It was already pointed out before 2019, that the election would be fought for the first time when age group was a bigger dividing line than occupation. Brexit had little impact on what was already established, the Tories smashed nothing apart from one nation conservatism, when they reduced their party to the brainless and crooked dross now making a total mess of the covid crisis. 

[7by7]

15 hours ago, Forethat said:

Personally, I want to believe that people vote based on political beliefs. Thus, it wasn't the constituency system that gave Tories a massive majority, it was their manifesto.

 

Complaining and 'being offended' has been the goto-behaviour of most leftists for the past three or four years. Here's a suggestion that makes electoral system irrelevant: be a better candidate!

Most people in the UK vote along party lines, regardless of the quality of the candidate. This explains how people like Abbott and Rees-Mogg hold onto their seats.

 

It's only the minority of 'floating voters' who vote according to the issues, party manifestos etc. Not forgetting the 'protest voters' who vote against the government regardless. 

 

The figures show that the system is the major reason for the Tories massive win in 2019. Despite their share of the vote increasing by just 1.2%, their share of seats increased by 7.4%. Despite their receiving less than half of the votes, 43.6%, their share of seats is 56.1%.

 

It's worked for Labour as well, of course. For example in 1997 they won 63.4% of the seats with just a 43.2% share of the vote.

 

This is all due to our first past the post constituency system. In some constituencies the winner has a large majority, in others a small one. The number of candidates is also a significant factor. Our system means it is possible for the winning candidate to have received less than 50% of the votes cast. 

 

'Twas ever thus. In the last 100 years, no party has received over 50% of the vote. The Conservatives came close in 1955 with 49.7%.

 

We had the chance for change to a more representative system in 2011, but rejected it. 

[vogie]

33 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

No the traditional loyalty of the working class to Labour has been disappearing since the 80s. It was already pointed out before 2019, that the election would be fought for the first time when age group was a bigger dividing line than occupation. Brexit had little impact on what was already established, the Tories smashed nothing apart from one nation conservatism, when they reduced their party to the brainless and crooked dross now making a total mess of the covid crisis. 

According to the Guardian, yes The Guardian, Brexit was the main reason that the Tories won the 2019 GE. But even though we are in a terrible crisis the liberal left continue to spout their political agenda. From what I can see is that government ministers have listened to the experts and followed their advice, they cannot do anymore. Whether that advice has been the correct advice all the time is another story. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/five-reasons-the-tories-won-the-election

 

But the left are trying to have us to believe that all the blame lies with this government, it's a bit like a drunken driver running over a child and then the parents blaming the doctors for not saving that child.

[Nigel Garvie]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

According to the Guardian, yes The Guardian, Brexit was the main reason that the Tories won the 2019 GE. But even though we are in a terrible crisis the liberal left continue to spout their political agenda. From what I can see is that government ministers have listened to the experts and followed their advice, they cannot do anymore. Whether that advice has been the correct advice all the time is another story. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/five-reasons-the-tories-won-the-election

 

But the left are trying to have us to believe that all the blame lies with this government, it's a bit like a drunken driver running over a child and then the parents blaming the doctors for not saving that child.

I have read numerous analyses that make it clear that dislike of Corbyn was a much bigger vote loser for Labour, Brexit came next, and the promise everything manifesto came third. or course the reasons that the Tories won are not automaticaly the same as the reasons Labour lost.

 

The government took the medical advise though the advice was sometimes wrong. ...what a joke....

Trump style delusion rushes in, it's never HMG fault, always someone else.

However it appears that even Bojo lovers accept the PPE supplies have been inadequate and late. 

Jesus we are still not testing people arriving at airports from Hotspot New York. Makes Thailand look 1st world and UK 3rd world. 

[Rookiescot]

24 minutes ago, vogie said:

According to the Guardian, yes The Guardian, Brexit was the main reason that the Tories won the 2019 GE. But even though we are in a terrible crisis the liberal left continue to spout their political agenda. From what I can see is that government ministers have listened to the experts and followed their advice, they cannot do anymore. Whether that advice has been the correct advice all the time is another story. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/five-reasons-the-tories-won-the-election

 

But the left are trying to have us to believe that all the blame lies with this government, it's a bit like a drunken driver running over a child and then the parents blaming the doctors for not saving that child.

Johnson listens to one opinion. Dominic Cummins.

Experts all over the country were calling for a shutdown while Johnson was telling people about herd immunity and washing your hands while singing happy birthday.

Surely you dont put much stock in the opinions of experts Vogie? Anything they say is just project fear remember?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Johnson listens to one opinion. Dominic Cummins.

Experts all over the country were calling for a shutdown while Johnson was telling people about herd immunity and washing your hands while singing happy birthday.

Surely you dont put much stock in the opinions of experts Vogie? Anything they say is just project fear remember?

So you have been a fly on the wall, know the inside story.......Typical left wing lack of "real" thought...????

[transam]

8 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I have read numerous analyses that make it clear that dislike of Corbyn was a much bigger vote loser for Labour, Brexit came next, and the promise everything manifesto came third. or course the reasons that the Tories won are not automaticaly the same as the reasons Labour lost.

 

The government took the medical advise though the advice was sometimes wrong. ...what a joke....

Trump style delusion rushes in, it's never HMG fault, always someone else.

However it appears that even Bojo lovers accept the PPE supplies have been inadequate and late. 

Jesus we are still not testing people arriving at airports from Hotspot New York. Makes Thailand look 1st world and UK 3rd world. 

Real Labour voters voted for Boris to get the job done...The videos are out there from ex Labour voters...Remember, Labour MP's etc put Corbyn in charge, THEIR big mistake...

[Rookiescot]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

So you have been a fly on the wall, know the inside story.......Typical left wing lack of "real" thought...????

Typical right wing. Ignore facts.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/22/no-10-denies-claim-dominic-cummings-argued-to-let-old-people-die

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Typical right wing. Ignore facts.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/22/no-10-denies-claim-dominic-cummings-argued-to-let-old-people-die

I am not right wing, I do not have any wing, I go with the facts at the time, lefties don't...

[transam]

Just now, 7by7 said:

Typical "Boris can do no wrong and is above criticism" sycophancy from you and @vogie.

 

You don't need to have been a fly on any wall to have known what the government was telling us and how that conflicted with the advice of health experts. You only had to look at the media at the time: left, right and centre; mainstream or not! 

Look at the media.............????..........Very funny, very funny, all they do is try to bury someone..

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I have read numerous analyses that make it clear that dislike of Corbyn was a much bigger vote loser for Labour, Brexit came next, and the promise everything manifesto came third. or course the reasons that the Tories won are not automaticaly the same as the reasons Labour lost.

 

The government took the medical advise though the advice was sometimes wrong. ...what a joke....

Trump style delusion rushes in, it's never HMG fault, always someone else.

However it appears that even Bojo lovers accept the PPE supplies have been inadequate and late. 

Jesus we are still not testing people arriving at airports from Hotspot New York. Makes Thailand look 1st world and UK 3rd world.   

I have read numerous analyses that make it clear that dislike of Corbyn was a much bigger vote loser for Labour, Brexit came next, and the promise everything manifesto came third. or course the reasons that the Tories won are not automaticaly the same as the reasons Labour lost.

 

Corbyn and Brexit came as a package, you cannot differentiate the two, nobody had a clue as to Corbyns beliefs of whether he wanted to remain or leave, it was the Northern Labour voters that voted to leave the EU and Labour totally ignored them and to some degree ridiculed them for doing so. Starmer went along with it and many think he was the 'brains' behind the great British betrayal, I don't think Starmer has chosen his cabinet wisely, it is like Corbyn continuation, not a leave MP to be seen, it will come back to bite him.

 

Trump style delusion rushes in, it's never HMG fault, always someone else.

 

But your stance is, it's never anyone else fault but our Governments, don't think it as not gone unnoticed that you are extremely biased and do have a tendency to blame all on this Tory Goverment, it does get quite tedious at times.

 

Yes, our government should be testing/checking passengers on flight arrivals on this I will concede.

 

 

[7by7]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

I am not right wing, I do not have any wing, I go with the facts at the time, lefties don't...

Not right wing? 

 

When you take every opportunity to defame those you always call 'lefties!' Just as you have above. 

 

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Look at the media.............????..........Very funny, very funny, all they do is try to bury someone..

Except for when you agree with them. 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Not right wing? 

 

When you take every opportunity to defame those you always call 'lefties!' Just as you have above. 

 

Except for when you agree with them. 

You obviously don't understand my posts, or doing your usual twisting stuff, as usual.... 

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

You obviously don't understand my posts, or doing your usual twisting stuff, as usual.... 

Really? 

 

So you honestly believe none of your many comments similar to

43 minutes ago, transam said:

Typical left wing lack of "real" thought...????

and 

21 minutes ago, transam said:

I go with the facts at the time, lefties don't...

are at all influenced by your political preferences? 

 

 

[nauseus]

20 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Not right wing? 

 

When you take every opportunity to defame those you always call 'lefties!' Just as you have above. 

 

Except for when you agree with them. 

It's really not necessary for one to be a right-winger in order to call a left-winger a 'lefty".

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It's really not necessary for one to be a right-winger in order to call a left-winger a 'lefty".

Not what I said. Read it again. 

[Rimmer]

A post has been removed, can we talk about the topic and not other members please