Thai Manfriend Problem

[Bobbie Davies]

I have a problem. I take it as serious though some of you may see it as funny or stupid. And it is absolutely true; crazy as it may sound. Unlike many of the posters I have seen I do not seem to be having a problem with money grabbers or not being able to find men to talk to or whatever. My problem is a little different. See I am not in Thailand yet and I am finishing up my training for teaching in Thailand. I know, the cliche English Teacher in Thailand. Not quite true. When I was in University I made friends with a couple of guys from Thailand who were getting their degrees as well. I stayed in touch and we have been friends over the years. As I Majored in Sociology and doubled Minored in Social Psychology and Social Anthropology it was kind of natural at the time that my studies focussed on SE Asian studies. So I have always wanted to go to Thailand. Due to circumstances, HIV being one of them, I took early retirement and am extremely bored. I have income but am by no means rich obviously due to my age, 53.

 

As part of my preparation I was introduced to some of their friends on Facebook and I hit it off with a few of them. Not a problem I figured, as it would be a good idea to know people in different areas of Thailand as I can't know in advance where I might be assigned, and as I will be working with an agency for the first couple years until I get experience actually teaching Thai students and get used to the system in Thailand. Having someone who can meet and greet, take me around, translate, etc... a leg up right? Now let me be clear here. My friends that I met in University are straight, they know I am not and so many of those they introduced me to most emphatically are not. They introduced me to a wide spectrum of men from ladyboys to extremely, and I mean extremely, macho military types. They figured that I would like to make gay friends as well as straight ones.

 

Now the problem. I have hit it off extremely well with two of these friends. I mean extremely well. There are others that I have hit it off very well with but these two are different. Both have jobs, neither is after money, both want to take it slow, Both are interested in marriage but are not in a rush, both are older, both are my type, one has an edge over the other in that he is a little more my fantasy type, both are aware of my HIV and are ok with it, one is HIV positive and one is not. One works in a food shop with his mother but it is attached to his mothers house in his home town so is stable and established, one is a fisherman who takes care of his mother another stable job. Both have stable housing so do not need my money for housing or anything like that. We have talked extensively online, and yes I know that online is no substitute for live and in the flesh but it is not relevant to the problem, or rather, it is but that is part of the problem. It has reached a point where I have to choose one of these men.

 

I am not a player. I do not feel comfortable with the idea of leading anyone on and am being stuck in that situation. They both know about each other but only one knows that name of the other. Mainly because one is much more potentially mean about it. The problem is they are now starting to snipe about each other and I am starting to feel pulled apart. I actually love both of these men. I know I have to make a choice but I don't know how to break up with one without causing great pain. While everything has been online so far, I have been introduced to the mothers, family members and multiple friends of both of these men in person; well not physical person but by face phone not facebook and both mothers gave their blessing to our relationship. Dear God I think I may have stepped in it. These are two wonderful honorable men and I am in the doghouse. I thought the HIV would be the deal breaker and would separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Wrong, it was shrugged off. Like I said one has HIV and is on meds and the other said he would go on Prep. I told them my Social Security is only 24000 Baht a month. Both are from Udon Thani and said they don't care; they are used to poor, I mean seriously after reading some of the posts I have WTH. They have seen me I am old and fat by Thai standards, they still want me. One says he is fat too, and one says he is ugly so what? I don't think either is true.

 

I need advice.

[Lacessit]

Is this a troll post to bring the homophobes on TV out of the woodwork? IMO it could be successful.

[RJRS1301]

Advice on what??

You first need to obtain a WP, then  you need to allowed to enter Thailand due to covid19.

Ensure you can obtain your meds and check the cost of your health insurance

 

Bide your time, keep talking with both and do not build sandcastles in the air

Love over the internet without meeting is for emotionally bereft IMHO.

You have not physically met either yet, take a deep breath.

Edited April 16, 2020 by RJRS1301

[WineOh]

Is this a genuine post? 
based on what you have said, what advice are you looking for exactly? It seems to me you know what needs to be done. Choose one guy and then move on with your life. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Liverpoolfan

[Bobbie Davies]

I know Covid, Visa, Work Permit, Insurance, Meds, already researched already planned for etc... This is not spur of the moment this is stuff been in the works for over a year.

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, Bobbie Davies said:

I know Covid, Visa, Work Permit, Insurance, Meds, already researched already planned for etc... This is not spur of the moment this is stuff been in the works for over a year.

Do you speak Thai fluently or at least conversationally?

 

[Bobbie Davies]

Seriously not troll. The issue is that both want to come here when Covid over to meet me. The whole truly meet in person thing. It is not dependent on me going there. Yes the full future is but not the nearer future.

[Bobbie Davies]

Am starting Thai classes. They both speak English.

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, Bobbie Davies said:

Seriously not troll. The issue is that both want to come here when Covid over to meet me. The whole truly meet in person thing. It is not dependent on me going there. Yes the full future is but not the nearer future.

OOPS now how will they get visas and money for fares and living>>> that is something vital you left out

 

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, Bobbie Davies said:

Am starting Thai classes. They both speak English.

You need Thai, to at least understand and begin to integrate 

[Bobbie Davies]

Currently I use translation programs to help with sticky stuff in communication. Not the best option but what I have. Was going to start classes at a local Thai Temple here in Pennsylvania but Covid put the axe to that.

[Bobbie Davies]

Where is the Oops? I know that the Visas are a current problem for them. I believe I did mention that they work. They have incomes, and any lack the one I choose may have I would be willing to help with, but I have not been asked at this point.

[Bobbie Davies]

Honestly, I'm not a life idiot, Im a Sociologist. Im just not used to dealing with situations like this. Got out of an abusive 21 year relationship so haven't been in the market long and wasn't expecting to fall like this or to have it happen with such horrible timing.

[CharlieH]

20 minutes ago, tonray said:

Font is ridiculous. Unreadable

Font adjusted to standard format.

[Rookiescot]

Have you not watched the Tiger King?

Just marry both of them.

And get some tigers.

[scorecard]

5 minutes ago, Bobbie Davies said:

Honestly, I'm not a life idiot, Im a Sociologist. Im just not used to dealing with situations like this. Got out of an abusive 21 year relationship so haven't been in the market long and wasn't expecting to fall like this or to have it happen with such horrible timing.

Until you have met and spent decent time with both guys just calm down, slow down from warp speed.

 

I also have training in human behavior etc, I'm a bit surprised that your not realizing you need to meet both of them and spend time together so that you really know each of them and be able to make an assessment whether the written word are nice but it's not a person(s) you would like to live with as a partner. 

 

Although you had Thai friends at uni in the US, you need to realize that Thai daily behaviors, Thai decision making, Thai social / family expectations are different (not wrong, just different) and living with someone you see these differences every day. Also note that Thai people are not that good at compromise (in most situations you will be expected to be the one that compromises).

 

Slow down.

 

[Lacessit]

Thais can be insanely jealous, and there is also the matter of face if you choose one over the other. Perhaps backing off may be the best strategy.

[Bobbie Davies]

 I guess what I am asking advice for is not clear. I am very aware that I need to break up with one of these men. What I am asking is does anyone have any advice on how to do so with a minimum of pain to the one who is being broken up with?

 

Here is my confusion. As an American I want to try to stay friends. One of my Thai friends told me that is not possible with Thai exes. Ex is ex. He further elaborated by saying that Thais love deeply and hate from the gut. His words.

 

And yes, I understand take the time and that there is a difference between online and in person, that is obvious. We are taking our time, but it needs to be focussed on one man.

 

I am hoping that someone on here has had experience in dealing with a breakup with a Thai man friend from a relationship that was not financially based that did not turn out ugly and how they did it. That is what I am asking.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Bobbie Davies
Elaboration

[scorecard]

14 minutes ago, Bobbie Davies said:

 I guess what I am asking advice for is not clear. I am very aware that I need to break up with one of these men. What I am asking is does anyone have any advice on how to do so with a minimum of pain to the one who is being broken up with?

 

Here is my confusion. As an American I want to try to stay friends. One of my Thai friends told me that is not possible with Thai exes. Ex is ex. He further elaborated by saying that Thais love deeply and hate from the gut. His words.

 

I am hoping that someone on here has had experience in dealing with a breakup with a Thai man friend from a relationship that was not financially based that did not turn out ugly and how they did it. That is what I am asking.

 Lots of good comment/advice in your middle paragraph 'Here is my confusion.... '. But also true these comments apply to some extent in any country/society. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by scorecard

[Bobbie Davies]

Scorecard, I do indeed realize spending time together is important, and I do realize the differences that exist; I do not understand all of them yet as there is a difference knowing academically and living them personally. I am just at a point where I do not feel comfortable pursuing two different men. My moral compass just does not allow for it and as has been pointed out there is the jealousy part coming up especially with one of them. My role in a relationship may be non-dominant but I do not feel comfortable with the idea of men actually fighting over me. I did not know this actually could happen and with someone my age. It actually scares me. My understanding of Thais had always been of not showing strong emotion. Very wrong when it comes to relationships apparently.

[Bobbie Davies]

My friends' comment came in the context of exes and my stating an admittedly largely Western belief in the brotherhood of all gays and a personal belief that gays need to stick together even as exes due to the "chosen family" idea as so many are thrown away by their natural families. My friend quickly disabused me of that idea in Thai thinking I can tell you.

 

He also is a reason I am hurrying along on choosing one of the men. According to him, If I do not make a choice soon I could end up losing both men because one is truly starting to lose it and while the other is being very very patient, my friend assures me that is just on the surface and that he will blow any time now.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Bobbie Davies
additions

[Skallywag]

1 hour ago, Bobbie Davies said:

. I have income but am by no means rich obviously due to my age, 53.

 

1 hour ago, Bobbie Davies said:

. I told them my Social Security is only 24000 Baht a month.

This makes no sense.  Must be 62 to receive SS.

Post is long and you are not in Thailand - cannot relate, but good luck 

[Skallywag]

13 minutes ago, Bobbie Davies said:

He also is a reason I am hurrying along on choosing one of the men. 

I thought you were moving too Thailand to teach English?  Relationship can come later

[Bobbie Davies]

Lacessit, I wish backing off were an option. I actually was not looking for a romantic relationship. These men actually went above and beyond anything I have ever experienced. They did not just statically look at me through a screen. They actually take me with them through their daily lives; hours of it. They take me to their jobs. They take me shopping, on their drives, to the bathroom, showers, family outings, temple, meals, restaurants, parties, concerts, brushing their teeth, every part of their lives, and not from my asking them to.

[Bobbie Davies]

Skallywag, If you had read, I have Social Security because of HIV but I worked so get the SS I earned. Since you come from the United States you know that there are circumstances in which Social Security is granted before 62 or 65. I am one of them. Moving to Thailand yes teaching to start planning to stay. Was not planning on relationship to start with it came to me. I am not going to just throw it away. Love is not so common that you should just throw it away like garbage.

 

You misunderstood that quote he is not the reason, what he said was one of the reasons. I do not plan on losing both men because I cannot make up my mind. I can make up my mind I just want to cause as little pain as possible.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Bobbie Davies

[amykat]

They don’t love you, they love what your money can do for them.  That is all.

[keith101]

Before doing anything check your HIV status with Immigration to make sure you will be allowed into the country i heard that people with it are not allowed entry but that may be wrong .

[1FinickyOne]

I have found that being w/non-mean people usually works better... Now is the honeymoon phase or whatever online people call it... will you be the object of the "mean" later on... 

[Bobbie Davies]

3 minutes ago, keith101 said:

Before doing anything check your HIV status with Immigration to make sure you will be allowed into the country i heard that people with it are not allowed entry but that may be wrong .

Already on the boat with that. Absolutely not banned from Thailand and not banned from Work Permit or Teaching or any Visa in Thailand. Leprosy on the other hand... Meds are not prohibitively expensive and already have exhaustive list of locations that provide meds. 

[Bobbie Davies]

12 minutes ago, amykat said:

They don’t love you, they love what your money can do for them.  That is all.

Amykat, Ah I knew one of you would show up sooner or later. I believe I mentioned they have jobs, their families have money, they have homes, they are not kids, they don't ask me for money, have not in the year I have known them. Maybe all they want is my money, if so they are playing an awfully long game with nothing to show for it so far.