Road bike upgrade advice needed

[SteveK]

So recently I bought a used Giant road bike. Quite old, but at 7000 baht was in pretty decent nick and is working wonders for getting me fitter.

 

The bike in general is nice and runs well apart from the odd annoying creak which is coming from either the BB or seat, maybe both, nothing major. But the one thing I immediately noticed is that, being an older, entry level bike, it is heavy, markedly so in comparison to my last two bikes (a Cannondale and a BMC, both mid-range level), albeit that was many years ago when I was much lighter and fitter.

 

Whether it is subconscious or not, the bike feels a bit sluggish, especially going uphill which is brutal although that may be to do with my weight as well, though I'm working on that.

 

Gears and brakes work well, handlebar/stem and saddle/seatpost all feel quite light in my hand. The culprit seems to be the wheelset, which is the original OEM Giant wheelset supplied with the bike.

 

They are Giant Spinforce wheels, which, with the 8 speed cassette, oem skewers, michelin dynamic sport tyres and tubes come in at around 3.8Kg (yes I weighed myself alone then holding the wheels at 7-Eleven, got some very dodgy looks).

 

The tyres weigh 580g

The cassette weighs 292g

The skewers weigh 152g

The tubes weigh 220g? ish (guess)

 

Which means my bare wheelset itself comes in at around 2.5Kg. (including rim tape), which seems excessive but not unusual for a bog standard OEM set.

 

 

I can replace with the following:

Litepro wheelset 1.53Kg (5500baht) https://888bike.net/product/8309/ชุดล้อเสือหมอบ-litepro-ultimate-30-road-wheelset-alloy-ลูกปืน-enduro

Continental 5000 GP tyres x 2 400g (2000 baht)

Same cassette 292g

Kactus titanium skewers 60g (400 baht)

Tubolito inner tubes x 2 76g (2000 baht)

Total weight 2.35Kg. (including rim tape).

 

So for an outlay of <10k baht, I can lop 1.45Kg off my wheels alone, taking my bike's weight from 9.8kg to 8.35kg.

 

My question for you experts is: does this seem reasonable? Have I made an error somewhere? With everything else on the bike seeming to be running well, this wheel upgrade could last me for many years, but if it doesn't make the bike feel any better it could be money down the drain. Should I just leave the bike as it is?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by SteveK

[rvaviator]

Well I am no specialist ???? ..  But I have build several road bikes up from scratch and restored a few as well.  I like long distance cycling (Audax) so based on my experience I would say your money is not wasted ...  (remember a dog is for x-mas but a rod bike is for life   ???? ..)

 

The only other things I would have bought in addition to what you have listed

 

Carbon seat post + seat (I have the same seat on all my road bikes) .. I find that a good all carbon seat post is far more comfortable compared with a stock aluminum post

 

I would also consider replacing the bottom bracket - What type does it have now ? Is it a press fit ? You say old Giant - I assume its a Alu bike ? - The press fit is <deleted> (One of my bikes is a Giant Defy 0 - Alu)  I replaced the bottom bracket press fit - With a HOPE screw type - Been rock solid for 10000+ km (You can get similar types from Japan)

 

Can you post a photo ?

[SteveK]

8 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

Well I am no specialist ???? ..  But I have build several road bikes up from scratch and restored a few as well.  I like long distance cycling (Audax) so based on my experience I would say your money is not wasted ...  (remember a dog is for x-mas but a rod bike is for life   ???? ..)

 

The only other things I would have bought in addition to what you have listed

 

Carbon seat post + seat (I have the same seat on all my road bikes) .. I find that a good all carbon seat post is far more comfortable compared with a stock aluminum post

 

I would also consider replacing the bottom bracket - What type does it have now ? Is it a press fit ? You say old Giant - I assume its a Alu bike ? - The press fit is <deleted> (One of my bikes is a Giant Defy 0 - Alu)  I replaced the bottom bracket press fit - With a HOPE screw type - Been rock solid for 10000+ km (You can get similar types from Japan)

 

Can you post a photo ?

It's a threaded, square taper BB fitted to a FSA triple crankset. Yes I could probably save 400g+ with new BB and chainset but the BB is silky smooth, although that would be the next thing to look at I guess.

 

Yes it's an aluxx Alu Defy frameset with carbon fork.

 

The photo is not my actual bike but is identical.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by SteveK

[rvaviator]

Ah ... ok ... so a square taper BB ... If its rock solid then leave it alone for now.

 

Later once you feel you have reach a certain performance level ... lost xx kg or managed to break a record you have set yourself ???? ... Then you can always look at upgrading the group set - and with that a new external bearing BB  (just need to check the thread and width) ...

 

New wheel will give it a more lively feel.

 

I would still say that a all carbon seat post would add some value without being to expensive - and possibly a new seat ... Look for EC90 ... (on Ali its a clone of a Specialized model.. hence low price .. and light weight ...)

 

Any play in the head set ? Could be a good idea to remove the fork - Clean the bearings and repack with grease.. Do a very good inspection of the fork .. I assume its a carbon fork with a Aluminum steerer.

 

I am sure you will enjoy the bike !

 

 

[rvaviator]

Oh and let me add .. Yes nice with the Kactus titanium skewers 60g (400 baht) ... But if tight for cash ... I think I would have put that towards a carbon seat post and kept the originals - Your back side will thank you for it ????

 

[SteveK]

I can get a carbon seatpost for 400 baht from Lazada. But how much is that gonna save, 100g? Hardly seems worth it for now when the wheel upgrade will take off 1.45kg. It might soften the ride, but comfort isn't a problem for me yet.

 

Headset is perfect, zero play in the bearings.

 

Also I just realised that if I keep everything I have now and only switch out the wheelset, I will save 1kg for an outlay of 5500 baht. Might be the best option for now. Do you think that would have a noticeable effect on the bike's handling?

Edited April 22, 2020 by SteveK

[rvaviator]

Well think of it this way ....

 

If your objective is to get 'fitter and faster' .... Then having extra weight on the bike will add more muscles in your legs as you need to work harder.

 

If comfort is not an issue now ... Maybe you are not riding far enough?  ????

 

I agree that for weight saving no point in changing the seat or the seat post.

 

Yes - Changing the wheel will change the feel - assuming that at least 1/2 the weight saving will be in the rim and in the spokes - You will have less rotational inertia to overcome - So less weight .. further out from your center of rotation will make the wheels spin up faster (i.e. the bike feel more responsive). Changing the tires and tube all helps with lower weight (lower rotational inertia)

 

If you only do one upgrade on a entry level bike - New wheels is the single biggest improvement you can do for handling ... and a new carbon seat post is the biggest upgrade you can do for comfort  (sorry to go on about the seat post 555)

 

 

[scubascuba3]

After the changes it may still feel sluggish going up hill depending on the crankset, compact 50\34 and 11\32 is ideal for steep hills

[Rhys]

Just consider, you are trying to upgrade and old bike, admirable, but the upgrades seems to match a desire for an up to date tech advancement.. just but a new bike.. on the pegs.

[rvaviator]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

After the changes it may still feel sluggish going up hill depending on the crankset, compact 50\34 and 11\32 is ideal for steep hills

Valid point - But note that OP is saying that he has a 'FSA triple crankset'  So he should be able to get the required low gearing for climbing.

 

The higher gear you tend to have on a triple crank could also explain why the bike feel more 'sluggish' compared to more newer bikes which tend to have compact crankset.

 

Unless you make it a habit to start in the middle ring and then gear up or down depending on the terrain .... 

[SteveK]

15 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

 Unless you make it a habit to start in the middle ring and then gear up or down depending on the terrain .... 

Yes - too hard to start in the big one, and the smaller one is a comedy granny ring for steep hills.

 

Middle ring is used 75% of the time.

 

The perceived sluggishness comes from the bike being relatively heavy, and me carrying about 10kg too much weight around my gut, so need to tackle both. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by SteveK

[ChouDoufu]

hard to find the source of noise on aluminum bikes, seems to vibrate through the frame and come out somewhere else.

 

for creaks i usually grease the seatpost and stem, possibly also the saddle rails.

for clicks check the pedal bearings, and also the BB.  some shimano square tapers have a plastic cup that can crack.  BB is still smooth but you get a click on every revolution. 

[StreetCowboy]

To answer the original question "Should I just leave the bike as it is?" I'll give you this conversation from one of my neighbours after I bought my first house.

Neighbour: "When you first move into a house, there's so much that you want to do, but after a while..."

Me: ".... you get used to it and learn to live with it."

 

Lighter wheels will just make you lazy.  And soft.

 

SC

[SteveK]

37 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

To answer the original question "Should I just leave the bike as it is?" I'll give you this conversation from one of my neighbours after I bought my first house.

Neighbour: "When you first move into a house, there's so much that you want to do, but after a while..."

Me: ".... you get used to it and learn to live with it."

 

Lighter wheels will just make you lazy.  And soft.

 

SC

I guess you're right. Will have to just keep clocking up the mileage and upgrade if and when something breaks.  

[WaveHunter]

Just my personal opinion but I agree with Street Cowboy if you are just starting out with cycling, I don't think 1kg is going to make that much difference, even in a hill climb.  Now if you were an experienced or competitive rider doing a lot of hill climbing, you'd notice a difference but I think you'll become a much stronger and more fit rider, and do it much more quickly just leaving your bike the way it is for now.

 

Just so you know, a lot of road cycling pro's actually ride mountain bikes quite a bit on the road just to increase the load for a form of strength and endurance training.  Again, just my opinion, but I'd say just leave your bike the way it is for now in terms of weight savings. 

 

If you really want to become a better rider, put your money into a power meter.  THAT can make a huge difference in your training!

 

If you do a lot of hill climbing, you should seriously consider switching out your cassette for something like an 11-40 cassette.  It can make a huge difference in maintaining good cadence climbing the steepest hills!  I regularly ride Doi Suthep here in Chiang Mai and the best advice I ever got from riders here was to get an 11-40 cassette!   Very easy and inexpensive to do.  Check out this YouTube video for more information. 

 

If you are looking to upgrade your bike and not spend too much money, you should consider chinese bike parts.  I know China gets a bad rap from many people, but the truth is there are many high-quality parts to be had at incredibly low cost, and can be purchased off of AliExpress if you know the right brand and merchant to buy from.

 

There is a YouTube channel run by a Western guy living in China that does an excellent job of reviewing all sorts of Chinese bike parts like carbon wheels, cranks, chainsets, etc.  It's ChinaCycling.  If you're going to invest in any sort of upgrade, check it out.

 

As for bottom bracket issues, welcome to the club LOL!  I have a Cannondale that has always had a persistent BB creak that drove me mad!  I tried everything and nothing fixed the problem until I saw some Youtube videos from a guy named Hambini.  You really want to check this guy out!

 

Hambini is actually an aeronautical engineer by profession and an enthusiastic recreational rider.  Due to his professional background he has incredible science-based insight into all sort of bike issues, and his YouTube videos are not only informative but a riot to watch!  He can be very irreverent (putting it politely) when it comes to shoddy practices of the bike industry, particularly when it comes to poor design of things like bottom brackets.

 

You'll probably be able to easily solve your bottom bracket problem after you watch some of his videos. I did!  And you'll be well entertained when he flies into one of his famous tirades where he berates a manufacturer he disapproves of...so funny to watch!

Hambini's YouTube channel

 

Just to give you an example of his "irreverent" discussion of various crankset and bottom bracket system manufacturers, consider this:

 

I love his no-holds-barred reviews!

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by WaveHunter

[SteveK]

Strangely enough I am already subscribed to both those channels, and watch regularly.

 

Will definitely look into a new cassette, thanks for the advice. Will hold off of any other upgrades unless I come across any second hand bargains, if such a thing exists here.

[WaveHunter]

3 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Strangely enough I am already subscribed to both those channels, and watch regularly.

 

Will definitely look into a new cassette, thanks for the advice. Will hold off of any other upgrades unless I come across any second hand bargains, if such a thing exists here.

Isn't Hambini a hoot?  LOL!  Love that guy!  He's got a command of derogatory language like nobody I've ever heard before.

 

His advice about bottom bracket issues is spot on.  I find nothing more annoying than BB creek!

Edited April 23, 2020 by WaveHunter

[SteveK]

2 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Isn't Hambini a hoot?  LOL!  Love that guy!  He's got a command of derogatory language like nobody I've ever heard before.

Yeah, he's in a bit of bother right now, not sure if you have been following?

[WaveHunter]

1 minute ago, SteveK said:

Yeah, he's in a bit of bother right now, not sure if you have been following?

I haven't followed him lately; what do you mean?  Has he finally gone off the deep end?

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by WaveHunter

[SteveK]

2 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I haven't followed him lately; what do you mean?  Has he finally gone off the deep end?

 

He got reported to the police for talking about the tolerances on a female rider's orifices and calling a self-proclaimed industry expert a "vajweena head".

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, SteveK said:

He got reported to the police for talking about the tolerances on a female rider's orifices and calling a self-proclaimed industry expert a "vajweena head".

I've never heard of the guy but I like him already ????.

 

As for the bicycle. Its your money mate. Spend it on what you want and feel you need. Any compromise because of what others think will always leave you with that "what if I had" feeling which becomes annoying after a while.

Be careful on the roads. 

[BritManToo]

23 hours ago, SteveK said:

The bike in general is nice and runs well apart from the odd annoying creak which is coming from either the BB or seat, maybe both

Nearly always a loose pedal.

[BritManToo]

23 hours ago, SteveK said:

So for an outlay of <10k baht, I can lop 1.45Kg off my wheels alone, taking my bike's weight from 9.8kg to 8.35kg.

My question for you experts is: does this seem reasonable?

Don't waste your money, exercise more, get stronger.

If you're too weak to make it all the way up the hill you have 2 choices.

1. get off and push it up the steep bit.

2. get a bigger cassette, you probably have 11-28, try a 11-36, that'll get you a lot more uphill power and only around 600bht.

 

If you really want to lose 1.5Kg, leave your water bottle and mobile phone at home.

Add a pee and a poop before you leave, that's 2.5Kg weight saved.

Buy a drink in a store when you're thirsty.

Edited April 23, 2020 by BritManToo

[SteveK]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Nearly always a loose pedal.

Did 16km today without a peep - I regreased all the bolts yesterday on chainrings, saddle/post and bar/stem.

[BritManToo]

Just now, SteveK said:

Did 16km today without a peep - I regreased all the bolts yesterday on chainrings, saddle/post and bar/stem.

I do 20Km every day on my Giant Anyroad gravel bike.

Just round the moobaan at the moment, 10k at dawn, 10k at dusk.

[SteveK]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

2. get a bigger cassette, you probably have 11-28, try a 11-36, that'll get you a lot more uphill power and only around 600bht.

Bear in mind I am on 8-speed Sora, the derailleur probably can't handle a big range cassette. Then if I need a new r/d I would need new shifters etc.....  

 

Will just have to have a very strong coffee and try harder.

[Ventenio]

OK, I have opinions!!!!!  lol

 

1.  Those GP tires are garbage, don't buy them.  sidewall issues, and just garbage.  tires are super important, and very hard to find good ones in Thailand.   Maxxis, in general, aren't bad.  

2.  NO to titanium skewers.  

3.  NO to new wheels

4.  NO to carbon stuff

5.  I forget your gear ratio.   Get an 11-32 or 11-34, cheap stuff (cheap meaning around Shimano 105).  

6.  GET light shoes as well

7.  GET decent pedals, again, 105 or better

 

Find a 20-minute climb or longer.  Ride it.  Then send us the Strava link and it should be easy to see if it's your bike or you.  

 

IF the wheels are true, keep them.  Light wheels that get untrue easily is a much bigger nightmare than the benefit of going up a hill 10 seconds faster.

 

 

 

I would swap out the crankset for the easiest benefit.  

 

Let's say I'm 50.....My bike is GOOD but maybe 10 kg....  I can average ALMOST 40 kph for AN HOUR, out-and-back.  Learn to suffer.....that's the best way.  If you care about speed, then you need to spend 30,000 on good aero clothing.....which I'll never do.    

Edited April 23, 2020 by Ventenio

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Bear in mind I am on 8-speed Sora, the derailleur probably can't handle a big range cassette. Then if I need a new r/d I would need new shifters etc.....  

Sora compact rear derailleur cage can handle a 11-36, you might need to reverse the 'clearance' adjustment screw. Only the cage length changes, nothing to do with the shifters.

 

And a Wolf Tooth 'goatlink' can extend that for around 150bht.

My Sora didn't need it with an 11-36, but I would have needed the 'goatlink' if I were to fit a 11-42. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by BritManToo

[Ventenio]

my bike new retailed for like 140,000 baht...so nothing crazy.  

 

BUT, I like it.... SO, consider putting stickers all over the bike to make it seem less desirable for thieves.  Especially over the Giant parts.

 

100 baht on some ugly stickers....put them everywhere.  take them off if you consider selling the frame.  it really works.  

 

 

[SteveK]

29 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

my bike new retailed for like 140,000 baht...so nothing crazy.  

Mine was 7k, beat that!