China lab rejects COVID-19 conspiracy claims, but virus origins still a mystery

[ChouDoufu]

37 minutes ago, mikebike said:

...you ARE aware that markets EVERYWHERE get their meat and produce MORE than a km from where they are located, right?

 

he meant to write "1000 km" (or maybe miles) which would put the bats in yunnan province, outside kunming city.

Edited April 29, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[Eric Loh]

46 minutes ago, johng said:

So does that mean the virus was in the lab  but couldn't possibly escape because of

"strict security measures"  ???

Virology labs all round the world keep dangerous pathogens for study. No secret that the Wuhan Virology Institute was studying bat related viruses since SARS. However there are no compelling evidence of leak. You can’t keep alleging that without evidence. 

 

[ChouDoufu]

47 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

past history

ooh, i don't think we want to go with history.

 

we know the scientists in the lab were performing malign studies, we know where the batsoup was being brewed, we know exactly where the witches cauldrons were located...

 

"We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

 

"...renewed hostile actions against United States ships on the high seas in the Gulf of Tonkin have today required me to order the military forces of the United States to take action in reply."

[Baerboxer]

19 hours ago, ukrules said:

They're lying.

 

That propaganda minister Zhao is a bit touchy too, he blocks people who question what he's saying on Twitter. He blocked one of my accounts. The guy is the liar in chief for China.

 

 

Quite possibly. Communist and hard left governments aren't known for telling the truth. Everything has their political spin on it.

 

But to be sure there would need to be an independent, no biased, truthful investigation; which would need to be reported truthfully and without bias by the media. Who would you trust to do either of those these days??

[Baerboxer]

7 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Virology labs all round the world keep dangerous pathogens for study. No secret that the Wuhan Virology Institute was studying bat related viruses since SARS. However there are no compelling evidence of leak. You can’t keep alleging that without evidence. 

 

 

And you have no compelling evidence to suggest there wasn't leak.

 

Seems a bit of coincidence the proximity of the virology lab, don't you think? You could think they might be trying to hide something with all these protests of innocence - "the lady doth protest too much".

 

Pure speculation - either way.

[GreasyFingers]

4 hours ago, generealty said:

If they are telling the truth, open the doors and allow international team of experts in to investigate or no one will believe them.

Would you believe the experts if they were chosen by USA

[Isaan sailor]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Do you personally know of anyone that has disappeared? Or are you just relying on fake news, as your beloved idol claims?

Does Ren Zhiqiang ring a bell?

Financial Times

[ChouDoufu]

14 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

And you have no compelling evidence to suggest there wasn't leak.

 

Seems a bit of coincidence the proximity of the virology lab, don't you think? You could think they might be trying to hide something with all these protests of innocence - "the lady doth protest too much".

 

Pure speculation - either way.

 

not pure speculation either way.  if we want to claim there was a leak, then we need to prove it.

 

'cause, gosh, porton down is located only 10 miles from salisbury!  and they do indeed have a history of accidents there.  some tinfoil nutters claimed there was a chemical weapons leak.  pure speculation, of course.

 

so did they give putin access to the lab?  they didn't?  what are they trying to hide?

 

see how easy it is?

[ChouDoufu]

now about the source of THIS virus.....there are allegations:

 

“When did patient zero begin in the US? How many people are infected? What are the names of the hospitals? It might be the US Army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan,” Zhao wrote on the platform, which is inaccessible to most in China, on Thursday. “Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation!”

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3075051/chinese-foreign-ministry-spokesman-tweets-claim-us-military

 

has the us provided this information?  have they released all the names, and all the test results, have they opened the labs at fort detrick to the chinese so they can investigate?  if not, what are they hiding?

 

wow.  it really is that easy.  i can make any outlandish claim, and the other guy has to prove me wrong.  otherwise, i'm right!  good to know.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China," the organization had said.

<snip>

You're a native speaker, right?

So you should be able to notice that

"Same government who also said the virus could not be transmitted human to human. " is not the same as

"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus ".

[digger70]

21 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

China lab rejects COVID-19 conspiracy claims, but virus origins still a mystery

Just came across this  Check it out. 

 

https://www.asianscientist.com/2020/04/academia/nobel-laureate-tasuku-honjo-kyoto-university-coronavirus-man-made-claim/

[Isaan sailor]

We may never know the root cause of Wuhan virus.  But at least we can agree it came from China...

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, mikebike said:

Why do you have multiple accounts? Seems unnecessary.

Sometimes I don't hold back my thoughts on Twitter like I do here

[zhounan]

Virus origins is still a mystery for the mainstream medias.

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

Just came across this  Check it out. 

 

https://www.asianscientist.com/2020/04/academia/nobel-laureate-tasuku-honjo-kyoto-university-coronavirus-man-made-claim/

Luc Montagnier doesn't agree with what the above guy said.

 

Luc is one of the guys who got a Nobel prize for his work on the discovery of HIV, he did a video interview on the subject, he's saying the same as the Indian team who were pressured to withdraw their paper on COVID.

 

 

[teacherclaire]

I have had enough time to do my own research and I came to following conclusion.

 

Wuhan is one of the areas in China where highly dangerous chemicals are being produced, including Fentanyl that the Mexican cartel is using for their heroin that kills Americans daily. 

 

The numbers of OD's are skyrocketing and drug addicts who have a Fentanyl test stripe mightthink twicce if thet shoot stuff with Fentanyl in it. 

 

A reporter who's in Wuhan on a tourist visa not to raise any suspicion had a lot of insight and found out that these laboratories are even subsidized by the Chinese government.

 

Fentanyl is also the reason why so many American drug users who were on "Oxycodone", a highly addictive painkiller, very similar to morphine and heroin had to die without knowing what was in their heroin.

 

First, the dealers in white prescribed hundreds of pills until so many Americans were addicted and when they stopped it ad forbid doctors to prescribe it, the addicts could buy heroin for less money that these pills are on the black market. 

 

Doctors "created addicts" and these addicts had to come back to get new prescriptions. Until they shut it down. Then all these people were left in the rain, but their addiction was still there. 

 

I can proof that it's easy to order 10 kg of Fentanyl by using the darknet and the delivery to my doorstep in Thailand would only take a week.

 

  It's sad that a human life isn't worth much in the US, otherwise they'd have more organisations that receive money from the government to help these poor people.

 

I often read how drug addicts are called by people who are addicted to alcohol, which isn't fair. 

 

   It would be a very strange coincidence if such a place like Wuhan with highly toxic chemicals had the virus from a person who ate a bat soup.

 

 

    

 

 

 

   

 

   

    

 

     

         

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

I have had enough time to do my own research and I came to following conclusion.

 

Wuhan is one of the areas in China where highly dangerous chemicals are being produced, including Fentanyl that the Mexican cartel is using for their heroin that kills Americans daily. 

 

The numbers of OD's are skyrocketing and drug addicts who have a Fentanyl test stripe mightthink twicce if thet shoot stuff with Fentanyl in it. 

 

A reporter who's in Wuhan on a tourist visa not to raise any suspicion had a lot of insight and found out that these laboratories are even subsidized by the Chinese government.

 

Fentanyl is also the reason why so many American drug users who were on "Oxycodone", a highly addictive painkiller, very similar to morphine and heroin had to die without knowing what was in their heroin.

 

First, the dealers in white prescribed hundreds of pills until so many Americans were addicted and when they stopped it ad forbid doctors to prescribe it, the addicts could buy heroin for less money that these pills are on the black market. 

 

Doctors "created addicts" and these addicts had to come back to get new prescriptions. Until they shut it down. Then all these people were left in the rain, but their addiction was still there. 

 

I can proof that it's easy to order 10 kg of Fentanyl by using the darknet and the delivery to my doorstep in Thailand would only take a week.

 

  It's sad that a human life isn't worth much in the US, otherwise they'd have more organisations that receive money from the government to help these poor people.

 

I often read how drug addicts are called by people who are addicted to alcohol, which isn't fair. 

 

   It would be a very strange coincidence if such a place like Wuhan with highly toxic chemicals had the virus from a person who ate a bat soup.

         

Sounds like you need more time to come with a reasoning that makes sense.

[Knocker33]

Well they are not going to admit are they.. <deleted>

Edited April 29, 2020 by metisdead
Profane acronym removed.

[frenetic]

2 hours ago, Knocker33 said:

Well they are not going to admit are they.. <deleted>

So, if someone doesn't admit to something, that's proof that they did it?

[Knocker33]

1 hour ago, frenetic said:

So, if someone doesn't admit to something, that's proof that they did it?

Well if we are talking about China. Yes

[digger70]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

Luc Montagnier doesn't agree with what the above guy said.

 

Luc is one of the guys who got a Nobel prize for his work on the discovery of HIV, he did a video interview on the subject, he's saying the same as the Indian team who were pressured to withdraw their paper on COVID.

 

 

He doesn't have to agree, We just wait until someone can prove for 100%. I think that's nearly impossible with what they're hiding. 

[ukrules]

4 hours ago, digger70 said:

He doesn't have to agree, We just wait until someone can prove for 100%. I think that's nearly impossible with what they're hiding. 

To be clear Luc (the Nobel Laureate) is saying that someone modified a virus in the lab by mixing parts of different viruses together, part of a virus found in bats and part HIV virus, he's backing up the Indian scientists who pulled their research after pressure from China.

 

It will take the work of guys like him to prove it, even though he's getting on a bit now I wouldn't be surprised if he's working on this.

[candide]

39 minutes ago, ukrules said:

To be clear Luc (the Nobel Laureate) is saying that someone modified a virus in the lab by mixing parts of different viruses together, part of a virus found in bats and part HIV virus, he's backing up the Indian scientists who pulled their research after pressure from China.

 

It will take the work of guys like him to prove it, even though he's getting on a bit now I wouldn't be surprised if he's working on this.

The Indian study was a pre-print which had not been peer reviewed. It has been removed after several scientists (not only Chinese) criticized it. A peer-reviewed version was expected but hasn't been published (or even submitted) yet.

 

There is another non-peer reviewed study, published in Nature that contradicts it and claims it has not been fabricated. Up to now, it hasn't been criticized, but still needs to be peer-reviewed.

 

As concerns Montagnier, he claims that this virus was an attempt to create a vaccine against HIV. However, he has acquired quite an eccentric reputation in recent years. He hasn't shown any scientific study yet, just an interview.

 

While the possibility that it could have been created in a lab cannot be excluded, it doesn't seem to be the most likely explanation for the time being. 

 

Until now, only one study has been published and not withdrawn, the one in Nature. We need to wait for this and other studies to be published as peer-reviewed in order to get reliable information.

[Selatan]

On 4/28/2020 at 7:00 PM, Tippaporn said:

Nothing to see here, folks.  Move along.

 

From The Times - Chinese scientists destroyed proof of virus in December

 

"Chinese laboratories identified a mystery virus as a highly infectious new pathogen by late December last year, but they were ordered to stop tests, destroy samples and suppress the news, a Chinese media outlet has revealed."

Have you watched the 2011 movie Contagion before? In that movie, the CDC ordered scientists working with the novel virus to destroy the samples. Why? That's a standard containment protocol whenever a dangerous new virus is discovered. After destroying samples, work can only be in done in a BSL4 (Biosafety Level 4) lab.

 

I supposed ordinary people like journalists and you and me aren't aware of such a protocol.

[ChouDoufu]

waiting for further update on the cabridge study by forster plotting the phylogenetic network of the virus indicating 3 strains, originating possibly in guangdong province sometime in september.  the initial study only had 160 genomes, i think they are now working with another 1000 complete genomes.

 

if that proves correct, then how does the yunnan bat virus migrate from kunming to shenzhen or foshan?  checking the calendar, university students head to campus around the first of september, september 13 was mid-autumn festival, and the first week of october is national day holiday, one week where the country shuts down and millions of migrant workers head back to their hometowns to celebrate with family.

 

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/covid-19-genetic-network-analysis-provides-snapshot-of-pandemic-origins

 

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/17/9241

[Selatan]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

Luc Montagnier doesn't agree with what the above guy said.

 

Luc is one of the guys who got a Nobel prize for his work on the discovery of HIV, he did a video interview on the subject, he's saying the same as the Indian team who were pressured to withdraw their paper on COVID.

 

 

Luc (87 years old) is seriously out of touch. He should read the latest work by French researchers of the Pasteur Institute in Paris:

French coronavirus strain may be local and may not have come from China
 

Quote

However, “current sampling clearly prevents reliable inference for the timing of introduction in France,” making it impossible to go one step further and conclude that the virus existed in France even before it was discovered in China.

 

[ChouDoufu]

5 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

if that proves correct, then how does the yunnan bat virus migrate from kunming to shenzhen or foshan?

thinking about that, i met a lady from the YI people when i lived in kunming, had been invited to their torch festival, although was unable to attend.  was looking forward (not really) to being the only 6-footer amongst a throng of 4'10" men, all wearing hollowed-out radishes on our little friends for the big dance.

 

they're a small minority group, about 5 million or so live in yunnan, some near kunming, mostly in isolated villages.  very different from han chinese, with their own language and writing and culture, practice animism and some still perform animal sacrifices.  i think these are the groups you'd see at the central kunming market area selling animal pelts.

 

they are beginning to assimilate, attending university or taking jobs in east coast factories.  so i'm wondering what are the chances of someone from a rural village close to bat caves, possibly infected and asymptomatic, traveling to guangdong early september either to study or to work.........

 

 

 

1st photo is internet stock photo of torch festival, 2nd photo from kunming market.

Edited April 30, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[rabas]

2 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

thinking about that, i met a lady from the YI people when i lived in kunming, had been invited to their torch festival, although was unable to attend.  was looking forward (not really) to being the only 6-footer amongst a throng of 4'10" men, all wearing hollowed-out radishes on our little friends for the big dance.

 

they're a small minority group, about 5 million or so live in yunnan, some near kunming, mostly in isolated villages.  very different from han chinese, with their own language and writing and culture, practice animism and some still perform animal sacrifices.  i think these are the groups you'd see at the central kunming market area selling animal pelts.

 

they are beginning to assimilate, attending university or taking jobs in east coast factories.  so i'm wondering what are the chances of someone from a rural village close to bat caves, possibly infected and asymptomatic, traveling to guangdong early september either to study or to work.........

"they are beginning to assimilate, attending university or taking jobs in east coast factories."
 

DId one get a job in Wuhan taking care of lab bats?

 

Note. Am intermediary species in say bat to human transmission is needed only when there is little human-bat contact. However, the Wuhan labs had the most human-bat contact anywhere in the world.

 

More important ...   the 100s of Wuhan lab bats were specifically chosen for their deadly viruses able to jump to humans. They said so, they published papers saying this is the rational for their years of research. They were also warned multiple times that their research was dangerous. The old SARS virus did leak from a Beijing lab sickening several people.

 

The probability it came from a Wuhan lab is near 1.

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by rabas

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, rabas said:

"they are beginning to assimilate, attending university or taking jobs in east coast factories."
 

DId one get a job in Wuhan taking care of lab bats?

 

Note. Am intermediary species in say bat to human transmission is needed only when there is little human-bat contact. However, the Wuhan labs had the most human-bat contact anywhere in the world.

 

More important ...   the 100s of Wuhan lab bats were specifically chosen for their deadly viruses able to jump to humans. They said so, they published papers saying this is the rational for their years of research. They were also warned multiple times that their research was dangerous. The old SARS virus did leak from a Beijing lab sickening several people.

 

The probability it came from a Wuhan lab is near 1.

 

 

possible, yes.  there are several theories centered around wuhan.  i'm not so sure about your probability calculation, though. 

 

i was, however, considering the non-yet peer-reviewed study from cambridge.  if they are correct, and the virus outbreak started in guangdong in september, then the wuhan lab is irrelevant.  unless some guy on youtube says he heard than an intern from the lab went to visit his granny in guangzhou and took her some delicious bat soup for mid-autumn festival, before keeling over and letting his cellphone subscription lapse.

 

a secondary finding from the paper was that the virus may have been circulating in the human population much longer in a less virulent form, for years or even decades. 

 

i'm just sorta spitballin' where that might occur.  a small, rural, ethnically-distinct population, living near the batcaves, with more day-to-day contact with wild animals, isolated both geographically and culturally from the main han population, with reasonable opportunity for members to travel to an initial outbreak location at the relevant time.

 

but if you absolutely need to work your conspiracy into it, how about the batwoman from the lab went to yunnan to collect bat poop samples, and hired local YI villagers as guides and porters, much like their relatives find employment in the tibetan areas of yunnan and sichuan.

[spiekerjozef]

Rejection and mystery....

Seems pretty clear to me.