U.S. coronavirus deaths surpass Vietnam War toll as Florida governor meets Trump

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

For anyone who wants to get a good factual, non-partisan daily update on what's going on with CV around the world and including in the U.S., the daily updates prepared by Johns Hopkins are an excellent resource. Available either by email subscription or directly via their website:

 

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/resources/COVID-19/index.html

 

There's always items of interest and importance there. Today, my personal favorite was a bottom of the list item about Turkey sending a relief flight of CV supplies (masks, sanitizers, etc) to the U.S.!!!   Let me repeat that, Turkey of all countries is sending relief supplies to the once mighty and great United States, now reduced to a stumbling, bumbling wreck under Trump.... MAGA for sure....

 

Quote

TURKEY SENDS SUPPLIES TO UNITED STATES Turkey sent a military cargo plane loaded with personal protective equipment and other supplies to support the US COVID-19 response. The shipment included 500,000 surgical masks; more than 500 gallons of disinfectant; 400 N95 respirators; and 500 face shields, among other supplies. Turkey’s COVID-19 epidemic has been on the decline since early April, and the Turkish government has sent similar shipments to at least 55 countries. Distribution of the supplies in the United States will be coordinated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/COVID-19-Updates---April-28.html?soid=1107826135286&aid=F0EGiiWovNw

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, IAMHERE said:

The democrats were praying for a miracle to defeat Trump, guess they got it. Beware of what you wish for.

Preying for a miracle is a turn of phrase. No sane person, should wish the Corona virus tragedy on anyone.

We are not talking about comparable things here.

[candide]

3 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Preying for a miracle is a turn of phrase. No sane person, should wish the Corona virus tragedy on anyone.

We are not talking about comparable things here.

These guys have been downplaying it for weeks, accusing Dems and MSM to create panic and criticizing so-called experts. However, for them, the Dems and MSM could not have been right. The only reason should be that they "wished" it to happen, rather than they were just listening to experts.

[lannarebirth]

9 hours ago, puipuitom said:

 

In a country like the USA, where health and medical care are only available for who can afford it, it cleans also up a lot of poor people ( especially ni..ers, sorry for usign this word) , immigrants ( all crooks and drugs smugglers acc to Mr Whise Guy), and brings in a LOT of money to the rich, who owns the hospitals, medical care facilities + factories etc. 

More cynical we cannot make it.

 

 

You can achieve a new, higher level of cynicism if you take 1hr and 40 mins out of your day to watch Planet Of The Humans:

 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/21/michael_moore_presents_planet_of_the_humans_documentary_we_are_losing_the_battle_to_stop_climate_change.html

 

[lannarebirth]

56 minutes ago, pegman said:

Obama rebuilt the country after the disastrous W.Bush years. Biden or whoever the Dems put forward can do the same. 

 

Obama was a horrible president, as was W. Bush, as is Trump, as Biden will be.

[Tounge Thaied]

Think for yourself

Question authority

 

Interesting headline... any hidden agenda there with that? The Vietnam war spanned at least 10 years, the Influenza virus kills the same amount EVERY year going back how long? Why have we now, suddenly compounded the problem, by wrecking the entire global economy, putting millions out of work onto the streets, small businesses that will never be replaced to only be gobbled up by the large big box corporate giants, and taken fundamental freedoms? We can now know that the flu virus is just as deadly, just as virulent, just as pervasive. Why was the world put in lock-down? With the exception of a few hospitals on this planet, most are empty, and HAVE been empty through this entire lock-down. Literally, they have and remain nearly ALL empty. 

 

"Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities, the political, the religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open-mindedness; chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself." -- Timothy Leary

 

Think for yourself.

Question authority. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Tounge Thaied
Organization of content.

[Damrongsak]

11 hours ago, puipuitom said:

But ... see it from another way: it clears up a lot of medical care costing old ones, make space available in elderly care homes, bring inheritages closer, makes pensions and retirements costs a lot cheaper, less obligations to visit the senile old ones for the busy, busy, busy youngsters, and geriatric care helpers available for other medical duties.

In a country like the USA, where health and medical care are only available for who can afford it, it cleans also up a lot of poor people ( especially ni..ers, sorry for usign this word) , immigrants ( all crooks and drugs smugglers acc to Mr Whise Guy), and brings in a LOT of money to the rich, who owns the hospitals, medical care facilities + factories etc. 

More cynical we cannot make it.

As far as I know, USA has some emergency medical care for those who can't afford it.  When my first son was born in New Jersey in 1984, the medical surcharges were like 50% to pay for those who had no money. I couldn't believe it.  My younger son had thousands of $ forgiven when he didn't have insurance one time.  I had a major operation one time and I was on the "Obamacare" insurance.  6 days in the hospital and I paid a few hundred $. I think the insurance cost $90/month for my family of three with extremely low deductible and co-pay.  My brother was on Medicaid for a few months and it cost him nothing, though it didn't cover everything.

 

People from other countries hop across our border, have a kid in the hospital and walk away from it with a new citizen baby anchor.  It's the smart thing to do.

 

As for the virus, my State of Virginia in the USA has gone from one case to nearly 15,000 in 6 weeks.  Boggles the mind.  My 91 year old Mom is in an assisted living facility a mile away.  19 cases and one death so far.  They are locked down.

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Damrongsak

[metisdead]

Some troll posts and replies have been removed. 

 

A post containing unapproved Twitter content and a reply has been removed:

 

18) Social Media content is not to be used as  source material unless it is from a recognized or approved news media source,  the source of any such material (Twitter, Facebook  etc.) should always be shown.

 

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Think for yourself

Question authority

 

Interesting headline... any hidden agenda there with that? The Vietnam war spanned at least 10 years, the Influenza virus kills the same amount EVERY year going back how long? Why have we now, suddenly compounded the problem, by wrecking the entire global economy, putting millions out of work onto the streets, small businesses that will never be replaced to only be gobbled up by the large big box corporate giants, and taken fundamental freedoms? We can now know that the flu virus is just as deadly, just as virulent, just as pervasive. Why was the world put in lock-down? With the exception of a few hospitals on this planet, most are empty, and HAVE been empty through this entire lock-down. Literally, they have and remain nearly ALL empty. 

 

"Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities, the political, the religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open-mindedness; chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself." -- Timothy Leary

 

Think for yourself.

Question authority. 

Despite the lockdown many died, what would have happened without it?

 

That makes your contention the flu is just as deadly worthless.

[jcsmith]

4 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Obama was a horrible president, as was W. Bush, as is Trump, as Biden will be.

I would disagree there. In my lifetime (1973) I'd put Obama in the #2-4 range. Reagan at the top, and then Obama/Clinton/H.W. in the next three spots. None of those guys were great presidents, all had their flaws and their upside, but they are head and shoulders above the likes of G.W., Carter, Ford, and Trump is like the fungus on the bottom of their feet.

[lannarebirth]

23 minutes ago, jcsmith said:

I would disagree there. In my lifetime (1973) I'd put Obama in the #2-4 range. Reagan at the top, and then Obama/Clinton/H.W. in the next three spots. None of those guys were great presidents, all had their flaws and their upside, but they are head and shoulders above the likes of G.W., Carter, Ford, and Trump is like the fungus on the bottom of their feet.

Put them all together and they instituted less positive change in America than did Nixon, who is universally reviled.

[Nigel Garvie]

5 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

 

"Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities, the political, the religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open-mindedness; chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself." -- Timothy Leary

 

Think for yourself.

Question authority. 

Well the topic drifted a bit!

 

I'd put Baba Ram Das way above Leary. Two of my friends took acid with Tim and his wife over a 6 month period in North Africa maybe 1969/1970. Fun no doubt,  I prefer to stay in closer contact with reality. 

 

Yes and my favourite president was Carter. I believe the man is in his 90s, has been fighting cancer for years, and is still helping build houses for poor people, quite stunning humanity, and also humility. Many others look pathetic, selfish, and utterly shallow by comparison. 

 

Vietnam and Covid are two tragedies for the US. They should never have been in Vietnam, fighting the tail end of a pointless (French) imperialist war. The people who lost their lives were the white poor of the US, and disproportionally the minorities. They were fighting not for their country but for the great god of American capitalist greed. The virus is another case where the same group of people - mainly - are those who have lost their lives. In this case we have to add the old. Once again the mismanagement and greed of the US ruling class has betrayed the US poor. Ironically the same poor who voted Trump believing he would drain the swamp. He is the swamp - you can't cure stupid.  

 

The US is not alone, the UK "Working class" largely vote for Tories who shaft them at every opportunity. (Can't say Corbyn offered an attractive alternative I grant you). 

 

Both the people of the US and the UK have been poorly served in this virus crisis by administrations which have been run by total inadequates, who have been way behind the game, and who show no sign that they put people before money. Comparing these to most other countries is embarassing.

[rickudon]

The Vietnam analogy is a good one, it puts it into perspective. As for those who keep comparing Covid-19 to Influenza, you are comparing one years death stats for influenza with a disease which was practically non-existent 3 months ago, and has only killed any significant numbers for under 2 months. 

 

As for a computer model that predicts 72,000 deaths by August that is laughable. A schoolkid given the daily death rates in a graph could do better. With death tolls going above 2,000 a day, they are 3 times worse than European countries. Even a month after hitting their peaks, they still loose 300-400 a day. USA will reach 72,000 by early-mid May, and probably 100,000 by August.

 

The US government still doesn't take it seriously. At press conferences no social distancing, no masks and contradictory 'science' presented. And no enthusiasm for lock-downs. Never mind, still a way to go to get to European death rates, but i'm sure they can catch-up if they try.

 

[StreetCowboy]

On 4/29/2020 at 10:02 AM, sucit said:

Vietnam 18-20 year olds were dying. 

 

Not everyone will like to admit this, but deaths are not all equal. 

Isn't it the same people?

[Traubert]

On 4/29/2020 at 9:24 AM, webfact said:

even though health experts credit the measures with slowing the contagion.

 

The meeting at the White House came as Florida announced its highest single-day death toll from the coronavirus

Did I really just read that?

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 8:35 AM, bluesofa said:

Am I reading too much into this - is there some underlying point being made here: By comparing it to the Vietnam War, they are saying it's more lives lost due to the Chinese again?

No, more lives lost by the incompetence of the Trump government.

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 3:18 PM, Siamjim said:

CDC USA 60,000 died yearly from the common flu where were the news ... MSM and CCP  same team 

Did they flood the ICU's and kill nurses and doctors?

Edited April 30, 2020 by FritsSikkink

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 8:48 PM, IAMHERE said:

The democrats were praying for a miracle to defeat Trump, guess they got it. Beware of what you wish for.

Not a miracle , just sheer incompetence from Trump to react on a disaster.

[FritsSikkink]

16 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

No, you really have to go back to The Korean war for that.

Not really , the USA shouldn't get involved in the first place

[Mama Noodle]

12 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

It would be much less infections and deaths if he took the intelligence briefings more seriously. He procrastinated till mid March to declare an emergency. There is clear dereliction of responsibilities. His daily briefings compounded the problem and he failed to provide adequate testings and medical equipments for states. 

 

Im convinced the people with overbearing negative opinions about how the USA has operated thus far have ZERO understanding of and need a long lesson in civics 101 because statements like this, that get alot of positive input from the same mainstay liberals here, is completely at odds with how federalism works and its clear to me that they do not understand. 

 

There is not a single person who needed a ventilator that didn't get one. 

[Tug]

Hey new safe word for trump supporters when cornered used to be trump haters now it’s liberals lol and let’s not forget virtue signaling when calling out some of the administrations more immoral stuff lol as far as civics 101 when did American goveners have to grovel and praise a potus to save lives in their states don’t rember that in civics no sir I think it’s trump that flunked that class to bad he had a lot of potential both the house and senate majority and some of the ideas were ok but he’s just to divisive so he blew it audios next please

[Tounge Thaied]

16 hours ago, stevenl said:

Despite the lockdown many died, what would have happened without it?

 

That makes your contention the flu is just as deadly worthless.

You've completely missed the point of my post. Many have died. Many have died of the flu as well. Have you gone and looked the numbers? Have you done any research on your own? Have you listened to a myriad of doctors, researchers, virologists on the subject? Or are you simply regurgitating what you are being told my the MSM? If you had taken the time to look, you can see that the flu numbers are still exceeding the Covid numbers. That is taking into account the start of the flu season until today, which closely mirrors the same dates as Covid. This does not even take into account that Influenza A and B have very reliable and efficacious testing, Covid does not. The PCR test being used does not isolate SarsCovid2, which is the new virus we are being told is the culprit of this novel covid19. There is a reason that when testing is done for Covid19 there are many false positives. The test is not isolating for Covid19, so the numbers are likely inflated. Now... don't take my word for it, go take the time you have and do more than just a cursory examination into the science behind the testing, modeling and the absurdity of the draconian measures that governments have wrecklessly put into place. 

[candide]

On 4/29/2020 at 10:13 AM, candide said:

An increase of other deaths has been observed recently, in particular due to pneumonia and influenza, that have not been yet attributed to Covid-19. The number of deaths caused by Covid-19 may well be higher than the current official count.

 

"Using data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the team found about 15,000 excess deaths from March 1 to April 4. During the same time, states reported 8,000 deaths from Covid-19. "That is close to double," Dan Weinberger, who studies the epidemiology of infectious diseases at Yale, told CNN."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/27/health/deaths-spike-covid-spread/index.html

 

22 minutes ago, Tounge Thaied said:

You've completely missed the point of my post. Many have died. Many have died of the flu as well. Have you gone and looked the numbers? Have you done any research on your own? Have you listened to a myriad of doctors, researchers, virologists on the subject? Or are you simply regurgitating what you are being told my the MSM? If you had taken the time to look, you can see that the flu numbers are still exceeding the Covid numbers. That is taking into account the start of the flu season until today, which closely mirrors the same dates as Covid. This does not even take into account that Influenza A and B have very reliable and efficacious testing, Covid does not. The PCR test being used does not isolate SarsCovid2, which is the new virus we are being told is the culprit of this novel covid19. There is a reason that when testing is done for Covid19 there are many false positives. The test is not isolating for Covid19, so the numbers are likely inflated. Now... don't take my word for it, go take the time you have and do more than just a cursory examination into the science behind the testing, modeling and the absurdity of the draconian measures that governments have wrecklessly put into place. 

According to the study I linked in my post, there is around twice more excess death than those attributed to Covid-19. So it's very unlikely that numbers are inflated. It's likely to be the opposite situation.

[jm91]

On 4/28/2020 at 11:24 PM, bendejo said:

Kind of peculiar that those in US government who were so bent out of shape about 4 Americans who died in Libya they spent millions of $$ and years of investigation are not responding to claims by the likes of Fox News that "these people were going to die anyway."

If, at their mother's funeral, someone said "she was going to die anyway," how would they take it?  Sick-minded reasoning.  And what for?

 

 

I like your comment. It shows the pure hypocrisy of the modern conservative. Modern conservatives are not about ideas but about holding onto power by any means necessary. Create a false crisis to  rile up their Fox entertainment base and then ignore a real crisis that is killing 10s of thousands. Pure hypocrisy. 

[jm91]

On 4/28/2020 at 11:24 PM, bendejo said:

Kind of peculiar that those in US government who were so bent out of shape about 4 Americans who died in Libya they spent millions of $$ and years of investigation are not responding to claims by the likes of Fox News that "these people were going to die anyway."

If, at their mother's funeral, someone said "she was going to die anyway," how would they take it?  Sick-minded reasoning.  And what for?

 

 

I like your comment. It shows the pure hypocrisy of the modern conservative. Modern conservatives are not about ideas but about holding onto power by any means necessary. Create a false crisis to  rile up their Fox entertainment base and then ignore a real crisis that is killing 10s of thousands. Pure hypocrisy. 

[Tounge Thaied]

17 minutes ago, candide said:

 

According to the study I linked in my post, there is around twice more excess death than those attributed to Covid-19. So it's very unlikely that numbers are inflated. It's likely to be the opposite situation.

Do you know anyone who has died of Covid? I am right now working in the global emergency medical services field as a 25 year veteran Paramedic. The last 10 years I have worked on three continents. I don't tell you this to impress you. I tell you this because I am the real deal when it comes to being able to understand the reality of this medical situation. My particular specialty is critical care and disaster preparedness. All of my colleagues around the world tell me there is no emergency. Many have been called up, some are sitting in hotels in New York waiting, not working. Some medics are doing covid19 temperature check stations in the U.S., but no one is dying in any mass amounts in ANY hospitals on this planet. There is no world wide emergency. These shut downs are unnecessary. That is a fact I don't need to get from any other source. I am on the ground proof there is no mass death virus going on. 

[jm91]

31 minutes ago, candide said:

 

According to the study I linked in my post, there is around twice more excess death than those attributed to Covid-19. So it's very unlikely that numbers are inflated. It's likely to be the opposite situation.

I read from the American Center for Disease Control website the Flu is fatal in about 2 in 100,000 people. I have seen ESTIMATES that Covid 19 kills about 1 in 200 people. Covid19 then is about 250 times more lethal than the Flu. The 1 in 200 mortality rate may be high or low but given what you posted that there are many uncounted deaths associated with Covid19 the 1 in 200 might be correct. If Covid19 is about 250 times more lethal than the Flu efforts to contain the virus seem reasonable. The anti science anti thinking crown are welcome to comment.  

Edited April 30, 2020 by jm91

[Tounge Thaied]

29 minutes ago, jm91 said:

I read from the American Center for Disease Control website the Flu is fatal in about 2 in 100,000 people. I have seen ESTIMATES that Covid 19 kills about 1 in 200 people. Covid19 then is about 250 times more lethal than the Flu. The 1 in 200 mortality rate may be high or low but given what you posted that there are many uncounted deaths associated with Covid19 the 1 in 200 might be correct. If Covid19 is about 250 times more lethal than the Flu efforts to contain the virus seem reasonable. The anti science anti thinking crown are welcome to comment.  

Estimates, ok. Let's consider your assertion, based on speculation? Or are these the so called A.I. modeling that has gotten all of the predicted numbers wrong thus far. The fact remains right now, Influenza world wide still remains the largest killer. Even with the lockdown procedures in place. Even with lockdown, head to head, flu is still outpacing covid. Keep in mind, this is with a flu vaccine. And we have not and will not in the future, lockdown the planet for influenza. So why are we doing it for covid2? If covid is 250 times more lethal, where are the numbers? Where are the official numbers showing 250 times more deaths than influenza? It's not happening. So... why are we shutting down the planet for one new strain of covid that isn't even more deadly than influenza?

Edited April 30, 2020 by Tounge Thaied

[jm91]

1 hour ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Estimates, ok. Let's consider your assertion, based on speculation? Or are these the so called A.I. modeling that has gotten all of the predicted numbers wrong thus far. The fact remains right now, Influenza world wide still remains the largest killer. Even with the lockdown procedures in place. Even with lockdown, head to head, flu is still outpacing covid. Keep in mind, this is with a flu vaccine. And we have not and will not in the future, lockdown the planet for influenza. So why are we doing it for covid2? If covid is 250 times more lethal, where are the numbers? Where are the official numbers showing 250 times more deaths than influenza? It's not happening. So... why are we shutting down the planet for one new strain of covid that isn't even more deadly than influenza?

The number of people infected with Covid 19 is much lower than the numbers infected with influenza because of the precautions implemented by governments around the world. 

Data clearly shows much higher than normal death rates. 

So the lock down makes sense. 

The 250 times more lethal is a calculation of the CONSERVATIVE estimated death rates. Do the math yourself. The American CDC estimates are 2 in 100,000 deaths from influenza and 

from the Italian data, University of California, Berkeley, and Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory data scientists estimate that the fatality rate in New York City and Santa Clara County in California can be no less than 0.5%, or one of every 200 people infected.

Science is messy and time consuming but good people are making efforts to make people safe. 

I here some people claiming this is some plot to enslave people or some other nutter talk - Oh well I guess the nutters will always talk. 

 

[jm91]

1 hour ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Do you know anyone who has died of Covid? I am right now working in the global emergency medical services field as a 25 year veteran Paramedic. The last 10 years I have worked on three continents. I don't tell you this to impress you. I tell you this because I am the real deal when it comes to being able to understand the reality of this medical situation. My particular specialty is critical care and disaster preparedness. All of my colleagues around the world tell me there is no emergency. Many have been called up, some are sitting in hotels in New York waiting, not working. Some medics are doing covid19 temperature check stations in the U.S., but no one is dying in any mass amounts in ANY hospitals on this planet. There is no world wide emergency. These shut downs are unnecessary. That is a fact I don't need to get from any other source. I am on the ground proof there is no mass death virus going on. 

Yes I know people who have died of Covid 19. For your post to be true there must be a vast media, political conspiracy to create a false crisis. Sorry, I don't believe you.  My brother and sister in law are both physicians and they are being slammed with work and coworkers dying. 

You are wrong because your story depends on some vast conspiracy - which does not exist.