Trump confident coronavirus may have originated in Chinese lab

[DirtyHarry55]

Better wait for a more reliable source lol Trumps credibility is zero.
Saying that there are reports Corona Virus was in the Wuhan Virus lab.
Assume Trump means the outbreak originated in Wuhan Lab?

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Isn,t lying a pre requisite to be a politician?the

Deflection

[kingdong]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Deflection

 

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Deflection

 

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Deflection

????????????

[Thailand]

Just now, kingdong said:

 

 

????????????

Deflection

[twocatsmac]

I certainly agree with with Trump on one thing,

the democrats are climaxing over the death count in the USA.

The same situation in the UK with the opposition parties as they see the virus as a route to getting their grimy hands on power.

 

[johnnybangkok]

4 minutes ago, twocatsmac said:

I certainly agree with with Trump on one thing,

the democrats are climaxing over the death count in the USA.

The same situation in the UK with the opposition parties as they see the virus as a route to getting their grimy hands on power.

 

Nothing to do then with the complete mismanagement of this crisis by both the UK and US leading to a ridiculously high 'death count' in both countries?

Both Boris and Trump have a lot to answer for and i for one hope both of them get their due comeuppance.  

[Kerryd]

And for all those quoting about how scientists claim the virus could not have been "created" in a lab, think about this.

It did not have to be "created" in a lab in order for it to have "escaped" from a lab. Get it ? 

It is a fact that there are actually 3 labs in Wuhan studying bat coronaviruses. 1 lab is situated a mere 300 meters from the wet market where it had been claimed (originally) that the virus had originated.

It is a fact that there have been numerous articles concerning the lax safety protocols and procedures at those labs, going back at least to 2018. As well, it is fact that there have been "accidental" releases of deadly viruses from other Chinese labs (including an accidental release of the SARs virus). One lab apparently has had 2 such "accidents" in the past few years.
One article a couple months ago noted how a scientist at one of the Wuhan labs apparently had some (infected) bats "spit" and urinate on him, so he went home and "self isolated" for 14 days. 
No mention of actually being tested to see if he was infected. He went home, didn't get sick (supposedly) and then went back to a normal routine.

How many people could go from work to home, lock the door and not have any (close) contact with anyone else for 14 straight days ? Without stopping off at the market, beer store and one or two other places first. Or having any visitors or other contact with anyone.
And why would you do that at all - unless you suspected that the virus could in fact be transmitted from bats to humans. 

And how many other scientists at those labs could have had similar experiences (of contacting urine or saliva from infected bats) and decided they didn't need to "self isolate" ? 

Keep this in mind because I know some of you think that all those scientists wear those full HazMat suits like you see in the movies.
They don't.
In fact, coronaviruses are not actually considered that dangerous because they weren't expected to be able to infect humans (not "naturally" at least) so people working with them weren't require to wear the full, self contained bio-hazard suits like you see in the movies.

Another fact is that at least one of those labs in Wuhan was actually studying how bat coronaviruses could be transmitted from bats to humans. 

Gee, I wonder how would one study that ?

Also remember what scientists actually do. They ask "Why". They ask "What if". They ask "How".

And then they do experiments to try and find the answers to those questions.

Like, "If I take an existing strain of bat coronavirus and expose it to a strain of pangolin coronavirus, what would the result be ?". Or maybe "I wonder if I modified this particular aspect of this bat coronavirus, would that make it act differently ?"
"Maybe I can inject a bat coronavirus into a pangolin host that also has a coronavirus and see how the two interact".

Or darn, that pangolin peed on me ! And now it's lunch time. 
No worries comrade, I'll just pop over to the market for some soup and clean up when I get back !

Yeah, because that **** never happens right ? 

Except that it does. And has.

[kingdong]

13 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Deflection

Ever had that feeling you,'ve heard something before?

[twocatsmac]

13 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Nothing to do then with the complete mismanagement of this crisis by both the UK and US leading to a ridiculously high 'death count' in both countries?

Both Boris and Trump have a lot to answer for and i for one hope both of them get their due comeuppance.  

I rest my case 

[Susco]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Do you seriously think Trump would state what he did sans evidence?

Take your pick

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?speaker=donald-trump&ruling=false

 

Latest False Fact-checks on Donald Trump

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/22/politics/fact-check-trump-coronavirus-false-claims-march/index.html

 

Trump made 33 false claims about the coronavirus crisis in the first two weeks of March

[Logosone]

19 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

And for all those quoting about how scientists claim the virus could not have been "created" in a lab, think about this.

It did not have to be "created" in a lab in order for it to have "escaped" from a lab. Get it ? 

It is a fact that there are actually 3 labs in Wuhan studying bat coronaviruses. 1 lab is situated a mere 300 meters from the wet market where it had been claimed (originally) that the virus had originated.

It is a fact that there have been numerous articles concerning the lax safety protocols and procedures at those labs, going back at least to 2018. As well, it is fact that there have been "accidental" releases of deadly viruses from other Chinese labs (including an accidental release of the SARs virus). One lab apparently has had 2 such "accidents" in the past few years.
One article a couple months ago noted how a scientist at one of the Wuhan labs apparently had some (infected) bats "spit" and urinate on him, so he went home and "self isolated" for 14 days. 
No mention of actually being tested to see if he was infected. He went home, didn't get sick (supposedly) and then went back to a normal routine.

How many people could go from work to home, lock the door and not have any (close) contact with anyone else for 14 straight days ? Without stopping off at the market, beer store and one or two other places first. Or having any visitors or other contact with anyone.
And why would you do that at all - unless you suspected that the virus could in fact be transmitted from bats to humans. 

And how many other scientists at those labs could have had similar experiences (of contacting urine or saliva from infected bats) and decided they didn't need to "self isolate" ? 

Keep this in mind because I know some of you think that all those scientists wear those full HazMat suits like you see in the movies.
They don't.
In fact, coronaviruses are not actually considered that dangerous because they weren't expected to be able to infect humans (not "naturally" at least) so people working with them weren't require to wear the full, self contained bio-hazard suits like you see in the movies.

Another fact is that at least one of those labs in Wuhan was actually studying how bat coronaviruses could be transmitted from bats to humans. 

Gee, I wonder how would one study that ?

Also remember what scientists actually do. They ask "Why". They ask "What if". They ask "How".

And then they do experiments to try and find the answers to those questions.

Like, "If I take an existing strain of bat coronavirus and expose it to a strain of pangolin coronavirus, what would the result be ?". Or maybe "I wonder if I modified this particular aspect of this bat coronavirus, would that make it act differently ?"
"Maybe I can inject a bat coronavirus into a pangolin host that also has a coronavirus and see how the two interact".

Or darn, that pangolin peed on me ! And now it's lunch time. 
No worries comrade, I'll just pop over to the market for some soup and clean up when I get back !

Yeah, because that **** never happens right ? 

Except that it does. And has.

 

Excellent post and factually accurate.

 

Now what is the actual evidence that this happened with SARS Cov2? 

 

Is there any? Real causative evidence?

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, twocatsmac said:

I rest my case 

As you should when you have none.

[Traubert]

As said in the Politico document leaked on Monday : attack China.

 

Tired old policies, get some new ones.

 

I know!! Try saving some Americans.

[Kerryd]

5 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Excellent post and factually accurate.

 

Now what is the actual evidence that this happened with SARS Cov2? 

 

Is there any? Real causative evidence?

As far as we know, they don't have any evidence, yet, which is why they are investigating it. If they had the evidence, I'm sure they would have announced it.
Or not.

Politics being what they are. If they did uncover actual proof, they could use it as leverage in their trade negotiations with China. I wouldn't doubt that that the (US) President would put the mighty dollar first and telling the people the truth second.
Especially as he has already claimed that China is trying to prevent him from being re-elected. I suspect a lot of back room politicing will be going on.

[Kerryd]

Lol - I was just doing some fact checking and it turns out that a lab in Beijing, one of their "top" virology labs, accidentally released the SARS virus - twice !!!
That was back in 2004.

Apparently it was also "accidentally" released from a lab in Singapore and another in Taiwan in 2003.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-analysis/sars-escaped-beijing-lab-twice-50137

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC416634/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC416634/

[PatOngo]

Ahhh Don de don don, what's that red button on your desk for? More than a million cases, over sixty thousand deaths, your looking a bit limp, boy!

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by PatOngo

[TheDark]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

Then it turned out that there was not 1, but actually 3 labs in the area that were all studying coronaviruses from bats. 1 lab being situated a bare 300 meters from the "wet market" where it was initially claimed the virus had originated.

There might be a logical reason, why there were labs studying coronaviruses in bats on that specific area of China?

 

I suppose the reason is, that it's well known, that bats in that area are carrying coronaviruses. 

 

It's easy to create conspiracy theories around those labs afterwards. Some people are more eager to go with extraordinary explanations rather than logical and scientific explanations. 

[Tug]

1 hour ago, CaptRon2 said:

Please provide a reference where President Trump states this was a man made virus.

if you do provide a credible statement confirming  Trump saying manmade virus congratulations on providing your first credible reference in over 4000 posts.

In the unlikely event you can not provide the reference please recall your own statement about rumors and division, and start practicing what you preach.

 

Ahh the op ,he’s confident it originated in the Chinese lab there ya go skipper

[Wiggy]

It’s interesting that the WHO haven’t been invited to China’s investigation into the origins of the virus though. 

[DirtyHarry55]

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/covid-19-genetic-network-analysis-provides-snapshot-of-pandemic-origins?from=singlemessage&isappinstalled=0&fbclid=IwAR3AKzYws57U-EuYgsYUzbh8AuxIvxk4NamHNCdvYrWHKhePP_oXJ3OxP6Y

COVID-19: genetic network analysis provides ‘snapshot’ of pandemic origins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology

The team engineered a hybrid virus, combining a bat coronavirus with a SARS virus that had been adapted to grow in mice and mimic human disease. The hybrid virus was able to infect human cells.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/u-s-officials-raised-alarm-about-wuhan-lab-researching-bat-coronaviruses-in-2018-military-investigating

U.S. Officials Raised Alarm About Wuhan Lab Researching Bat Coronaviruses In 2018; Military Investigating

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/china-clamping-down-on-coronavirus-research-deleted-pages-suggest

China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest



 

[MadMuhammad]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

Oh well i suppose trump and his supporters will reject National Intelligence latest advisory below which also contradicts your claim.

 

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence released a statement on Thursday, appearing to contradict theories by anti-China activists and some supporters of US President Donald Trump.

“The entire Intelligence Community has been consistently providing critical support to U.S. policymakers and those responding to the COVID-19 virus, which originated in China,” the statement reads.

“The Intelligence Community also concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the COVID-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified.

 

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/coronavirus-update-us-intelligence-community-concludes-covid-19-was-not-manmade--c-1009954

From what I’ve been reading they’re not saying it was created in a lab only that it was being studied and ‘escaped’. 
who knows what the truth is though I guess

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52318539

[teatime101]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

widely available information that the Wuhan lab in China harvested coronavirus from bats

Link?

[Kerryd]

45 minutes ago, TheDark said:

There might be a logical reason, why there were labs studying coronaviruses in bats on that specific area of China?

 

I suppose the reason is, that it's well known, that bats in that area are carrying coronaviruses. 

 

It's easy to create conspiracy theories around those labs afterwards. Some people are more eager to go with extraordinary explanations rather than logical and scientific explanations. 

Yeah, it's much simpler to ignore the public information and just go with some crazy idea - like the virus was invented in the US and smuggled into China by the US Army.

Instead of looking at things like - history of poor safety with regards to deadly viruses, known facts that the labs were studying those exact same virus (including how they could be transmitted from bats to people), how the outbreak just (coincidentally) started in that same area as those labs, how the (Chinese) authorities tried to cover it up by doing things like downplaying the numbers of infected and dead and arresting the doctor who first went public about it (and later died from it).

But it would be crazy to think that it was possible for a virus to have possible escaped from a lab that was studying that exact same thing ? 

Oh yeah, it's much more likely that hundreds of people bought hundreds of bats from the same market, ate them all raw (or all got peed on by them) and then dozens (maybe hundreds) contracted the virus all around the same time.
Including scads of people who had no connection to that market at all (didn't buy from it, eat food bought from it or have contact with anyone that did go there). That is one of the main reasons why they stopped promoting the idea that the virus came from bats people bought from the market and ate.

Somehow that idea isn't crazy though ? 

Yes, the labs in Wuhan probably were studying bat coronaviruses because it is prevalent in the bat populations around that area. They were also studying a variety of other viruses as well like Ebola and Henipah (a virus commonly found in fruit bats).

How do we know that those labs were studying things like that ? Because in 2019, the Level 4 Lab in Winnipeg, Canada apparently shipped samples of those viruses to a lab in China. Those are classed as Level 4 pathogens, meaning they can only be handled in labs with the highest safety rating (Level 4) and the only lab in China with that rating is the one in Wuhan.

That was the same (Canadian) lab where, last summer, the Police escorted a Chinese scientist (and her Chinese students) out of the lab as the police investigated some "policy breaches". The same scientist, who apparently made many trips to China while working in that lab, had also worked at China's only Level 4 lab - in Wuhan. That scientist, her scientist husband (also from China) and all of their students had their security clearances revoked as well.

Yeah, I can see how crazy it would be to possibly think that the virus may have "escaped" from a Chinese lab. 
 

[stevenl]

16 minutes ago, DirtyHarry55 said:

<snip>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology

The team engineered a hybrid virus, combining a bat coronavirus with a SARS virus that had been adapted to grow in mice and mimic human disease. The hybrid virus was able to infect human cells.
<snip>

Please, dishonest what you're doing. Why did you leave this out "an international team including two scientists from the Institute"

[DirtyHarry55]

35 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

Link?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology

In 2005, a group including researchers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology published research into the origin of the SARS coronavirus, finding that China's horseshoe bats are natural reservoirs of SARS-like coronaviruses.^[18] Continuing this work over a period of years, researchers from the Institute sampled thousands of horseshoe bats in locations across China, isolating over 300 bat coronavirus sequences.^[19]

In 2015, an international team including two scientists from the Institute published successful research on whether a bat coronavirus could be made to infect HeLa. The team engineered a hybrid virus, combining a bat coronavirus with a SARS virus that had been adapted to grow in mice and mimic human disease. The hybrid virus was able to infect human cells.^[20][21]

In 2017, a team from the Institute announced that coronaviruses found in horseshoe bats at a cave in Yunnan contain all the genetic pieces of the SARS virus, and hypothesized that the direct progenitor of the human virus originated in this cave. The team, who spent five years sampling the bats in the cave, noted the presence of a village only a kilometer away, and warned of "the risk of spillover into people and emergence of a disease similar to SARS".^[19][22]

 

[DirtyHarry55]

24 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Please, dishonest what you're doing. Why did you leave this out "an international team including two scientists from the Institute"

I provide a link for you to read that's all.
Cheers

[BobBKK]

I think it's very possible that it came from a lab. I do think POTUS has access to more info than any poster on here.

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I think it's very possible that it came from a lab. I do think POTUS has access to more info than any poster on here.

So far scientists don't agree with you.

[BobBKK]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So far scientists don't agree with you.

They also didn't agree it could transmit from human to human or that masks were useful. Early days.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

That was the same (Canadian) lab where, last summer, the Police escorted a Chinese scientist (and her Chinese students) out of the lab as the police investigated some "policy breaches". The same scientist, who apparently made many trips to China while working in that lab, had also worked at China's only Level 4 lab - in Wuhan. That scientist, her scientist husband (also from China) and all of their students had their security clearances revoked as well.

Usually I like your posts as well informed. However, in this instance there is credible detailed refutation of your claims concerning the Covid virus and the Chinese scientists.

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/01/coronavirus-wasnt-sent-by-spy-from-canada/

Edited May 1, 2020 by simple1