Coronavirus inflicts huge U.S. job losses; Pence aide infected

[Cryingdick]

11 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Well the thing about the US is that it is an economic giant. The US could increase taxes by a few dollars and wipe out most of its debt in a very short time. The US has so many economic assets for it to reach a stage where creditors refuse to lend to the US, like happened with Greece, many hundreds years of disaster would have to befall the US, it's very unlikely the US will ever be in a position that is like Greece's.

 

However, anyone who thinks that borrowing is free and servicing debt is cheap is unaware of the facts. The fact is that by 2024 the US is forecast to be paying 800 billion USD in debt servicing, which is 3% of its GDP. That's an eye-watering cost to borrowing.

I am not so sure about that. Tim Cook just issued $8 billion dollars of bonds. Apple has said they will buy back more than $50 billion of their own stock. So the point is they can use the $8 billion for R&D or whatever and continue to buy back stock as it will become more expensive in relative terms to the bond they issued.

 

That's leverage used the right way.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Cryingdick

[sukhumvitneon]

10 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Well the thing about the US is that it is an economic giant. The US could increase taxes by a few dollars and wipe out most of its debt in a very short time. The US has so many economic assets for it to reach a stage where creditors refuse to lend to the US, like happened with Greece, many hundreds years of disaster would have to befall the US, it's very unlikely the US will ever be in a position that is like Greece's.

 

However, anyone who thinks that borrowing is free and servicing debt is cheap is unaware of the facts. The fact is that by 2024 the US is forecast to be paying 800 billion USD in debt servicing, which is 3% of its GDP. That's an eye-watering cost to borrowing.

This is the one reason you benefit from having the most powerful military on Earth.  Want to call in the debt?  Well yeah, about that

 

It's like when Saddam Hussein tried to revalue oil transactions in euros when the international standard was the dollar.  Didn't work out well for him.

[Cryingdick]

5 minutes ago, sukhumvitneon said:

This is the one reason you benefit from having the most powerful military on Earth.  Want to call in the debt?  Well yeah, about that

 

It's like when Saddam Hussein tried to revalue oil transactions in euros when the international standard was the dollar.  Didn't work out well for him.

I have made a very big bet on oil coming back. $1.89 at the pump here today. if you bought oil around a month ago you are golden.

 

What did oil do last Friday afternoon? If you don't know it means you don't own any. It's shameful quite frankly.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Cryingdick

[earlinclaifornia]

4 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

We are all wishing the POTUS the best of health I am sure. 

You assurity might be very well far from the truth.

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

I am not so sure about that. Tim Cook just issued $8 billion dollars of bonds. Apple has said they will buy back more than $50 billion of their own stock. So the point is they can use the $8 billion for R&D or whatever and continue to buy back stock as it will become more expensive in relative terms to the bond they issued.

 

That's leverage used the right way.

Indeed. But the difference between Apple and the government is that the latter does not spend money that makes money. It is not a business. The US government spends money that is irretrievably lost, just to pay bills. Social benefit payments for instance is money that overall will yield very little return. 

[Isaan sailor]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

I have made a very big bet on oil coming back. $1.89 at the pump here today. if you bought oil around a month ago you are golden.

 

What did oil do last Friday afternoon? If you don't know it means you don't own any. It's shameful quite frankly.

I too have made a bet on oils return to higher prices. Picked up more shares of XOM, with a nice 8% dividend to boot.  Let the fracking begin.

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, sukhumvitneon said:

This is the one reason you benefit from having the most powerful military on Earth.  Want to call in the debt?  Well yeah, about that

That's a fundamental misunderstanding how the system works.

 

In practice we have seen many times countries that have gone close to something resembling bankruptcy. When that happens the creditors, today normally hedge funds, go to the courts to sue the country that is defaulting on the debt. We saw this with Argentina recently.  The courts invariably find in favour of the creditors.

 

The country therefore then has the option of paying what the judgement demands, or being internationally known to be in default and becoming a pariah state in terms of lending. Had Argentina refused to pay the debt, it would have been outside the lending infrastructure and received no more funding. This would have endangered Argentina's recovery and finances more than repaying the debt, so Argentina paid.

 

Nothing to do with militaries. The soldiers of debtors and creditors are lawyers, not generals.

 

If ever the US were in a position where it refused to pay its debt, the creditors would not need to have recourse to military threats. The threat of being found to be a country in default, and not worth lending to would quickly bring the US to heel. Obviously the US is now addicted to debt like a cocaine addict to white powder.

 

Same with the UK.

[Rimmer]

A post calling another poster a liar has been removed.

[CaptRon2]

7 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/opinion/times/story/2020/may/09/sohn-donald-trump-and-georgigov-brikemp-fail/522496/

Donald Trump and Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp fail the reasoning test with COVID-19

An opinion piece from the Chattanooga Free Press in no way qualifies as a credible reference, additionally it does not even support your statement Donald Trump is at fault for opening Georgia.

The opening of the individual states is done by the governors, Not by President Trump.

The White House has posted a criteria it would like followed before opening, apparently Georgia is not following it.

Your original statement Trump is at fault in the opening of Georgia is untrue and the  opinion piece you referenced  does not support your statement as a credible reference.

You  do realize a credible reference generally required by academic papers offers some  verified evidence and of course citations, neither of which you would typically find in the opinion section of the paper. Your link to an opinion page is very misleading, I hope not intentionally so.

[stevenl]

25 minutes ago, CaptRon2 said:

An opinion piece from the Chattanooga Free Press in no way qualifies as a credible reference, additionally it does not even support your statement Donald Trump is at fault for opening Georgia.

The opening of the individual states is done by the governors, Not by President Trump.

The White House has posted a criteria it would like followed before opening, apparently Georgia is not following it.

Your original statement Trump is at fault in the opening of Georgia is untrue and the  opinion piece you referenced  does not support your statement as a credible reference.

You  do realize a credible reference generally required by academic papers offers some  verified evidence and of course citations, neither of which you would typically find in the opinion section of the paper. Your link to an opinion page is very misleading, I hope not intentionally so.

Trump was pushing and pushing opening, then issued guidelines no state could meet then and afaik no state has met these guidelines now.

But still he is pushing, and after some weak objections over Georgia opening he has not made any new or repeated objections.

 

Anybody claiming Trump is not happy with Georgia and others opening is either not following what is going on or blind.

 

Oh, and NY times qualifies as a credible source.

Edited May 10, 2020 by stevenl

[candide]

43 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Trump was pushing and pushing opening, then issued guidelines no state could meet then and afaik no state has met these guidelines now.

But still he is pushing, and after some weak objections over Georgia opening he has not made any new or repeated objections.

 

Anybody claiming Trump is not happy with Georgia and others opening is either not following what is going on or blind.

 

Oh, and NY times qualifies as a credible source.

His trick is so obvious:

- on the one hand, Trump and his affiliates are pushing opening, organising protests, etc... The aim is to promote an image of being pro-economy among potential voters. His instructions have been well understood by his faithful TVF followers who are frantically pushing for opening and downplaying the impact of shutdowns on the pandemic.

- on the other hand, he has published rather strict guidelines and standards, and also made a few warnings.

 

Now look at the two possible scenarii:

-case 1: opening doesn't induce significant virus spread. Trump will claim he was right to push for opening, allegedly against the opinion hold by everybody else

-case 2: after opening, the death count significantly goes up again. Trump will blame Governors for not following his guidelines and warnings. He will claim he was right to establish tough guidelines and to make warnings, allegedly against the opinion hold by everybody else.

[CaptRon2]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Trump was pushing and pushing opening, then issued guidelines no state could meet then and afaik no state has met these guidelines now.

But still he is pushing, and after some weak objections over Georgia opening he has not made any new or repeated objections.

 

Anybody claiming Trump is not happy with Georgia and others opening is either not following what is going on or blind.

 

Oh, and NY times qualifies as a credible source.

So you agree Trump did not open the state of Georgia which is what I am claiming, the state was of course reopened by the Governor himself. Additionally it was reopened after President Trump issues the guidelines the criteria  not having been meet, and the the post in question stated he was at fault, not happy about. 

Although I would raise questions about The NY Times being credible it is has nothing to do with The Chattanooga Free Press Opinion Section (news) that the poster was using as supporting evidence. 

Furthermore even if it was a an Opinion piece from The NY Times it is not supporting evidence it is what it is called, an opinion.

The poster may as well have said Pam Sohn said so, could have said Steveni said said so and frankly just the fact you seem to think the reference was the NY Times when it was actually The Chattanooga Free Press, obviously raises questions about your credibility, not to mention you didn’t bother to even read the article.

i added the original posters link again, personally I try to inform myself about the subjects I comment on before I make my posts, I feel it lessens the chances of me making a total fool of myself, but I guess some people just don’t care they let their hatred and rage take over, get in a rush and then they make mistakes.

 

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/opinion/times/story/2020/may/09/sohn-donald-trump-and-georgigov-brikemp-fail/522496/

[jordanmarcinkus]

No masks and little social distancing at White House meeting, despite two aides testing positive for virus

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/no-masks-little-social-distancing-white-house-meeting-despite-two-n1203336

[Tug]

11 minutes ago, jordanmarcinkus said:

No masks and little social distancing at White House meeting, despite two aides testing positive for virus

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/no-masks-little-social-distancing-white-house-meeting-despite-two-n1203336

Hey if ya can’t get the Nobel ya just might get the Darwin Award!

[Redline]

On 5/9/2020 at 11:33 AM, Walker88 said:

I changed his name for two reasons:

 

His policies exhibit the same degree of crimes against humanity as his new namesake, and because absent the mustache and glasses, he could be a descendant or at least a doppelganger.

 

Perhaps you think separating kids from parents for life is okay, or caging them is humane. People who do not subscribe to the Nationalist Socialist ideology do not.

 

You do not remember correctly that kids in cages began under Obama. That's a right wing lie that has been proven false too many times to note.

 

As for the so-called 'hard border', the astonishing level of deaths in the US came from the abject failure of 'that guy' and his unwillingness to face reality that might interfere with his personal goals. 43,000 people came from China into the US after the supposed travel ban, and the US imported the East Coast strain from Europe.  Had the "opposition" been in power, they could have benefited from the Pandemic Response Team set up by Obama, and used the Pandemic Response Manual that his Admin left behind, after so successfully halting the Ebola spread.  The current weak 'leader' disbanded the PRT and tossed the manual, and also slashed funding to both the CDC and NIH, two govt organizations never needed more than in 2020.

 

Also, the US intel community began warning of both the outbreak and China's quashing knowledge of it as far back as November 2019.  No less than 18 times did the warning appear in the PDB, and 'that guy' ignored it every time. Had he paid attention and acted the way the Obama Admin did re Ebola, the US might have had the same experience with CV-19 as South Korea or Taiwan. Instead, we get silly false paths (like hydroxychloroquine and Lysol) and---so far---77,000 deaths.

 

That guy is an abject failure. Zero leadership, and zero concern for the lives of the people he ostensibly rules.

Exactly, and you could have gone on and on with  examples and facts...

[meechai]

On 5/9/2020 at 11:01 AM, tribalfusion001 said:

The lockdowns only serve to make the alpha dog companies richer.

I was just thinking the other day that this is the 2020 version of

"Too Big Too Fail"

 

But instead of billions in bailouts they went with 2 Trillion Stimulus which as you said was then likely mostly given

to the new Too Big Too Fail gang

Edited May 11, 2020 by meechai

[bendejo]

On 5/10/2020 at 4:59 AM, jordanmarcinkus said:

No masks and little social distancing at White House meeting, despite two aides testing positive for virus

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/no-masks-little-social-distancing-white-house-meeting-despite-two-n1203336

 

Things can change fast.  By the end of the month there could very well be a President Pelosi.  But it's all a hoax, right?

 

 

[yourauntbob]

The virus didnt cause the job losses, the government reposition did.  Doesnt matter if you agree or disagree with the actions taken, the governments around the world need to own their decisions  

[impulse]

On 5/9/2020 at 10:48 PM, Logosone said:

However, anyone who thinks that borrowing is free and servicing debt is cheap is unaware of the facts. The fact is that by 2024 the US is forecast to be paying 800 billion USD in debt servicing, which is 3% of its GDP. That's an eye-watering cost to borrowing.

 

Not if you can print up a quick $20 trillion.

 

[sirineou]

Though the job losses is a concern , it is not structural, it is temporary. Most of these jobs are not lost they are suspended. 

What is a bigger concern is the inarticulate  sociopathic moron in the White House, that makes a bad situation worse every time he opens his mouth . 

Now is not the time to intensify a trade war with China and make these temporary job suspensions permanent. 

almost 2% declines across the board today.

[kingdong]

On 5/9/2020 at 5:44 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

To borrow an argument from our illiberal brethren, is the virus killing jobs and the economy or were the jobs already on life support and the economy already sick?

 

Prior to the Pandemic 60% of Americans did not have access to $500 to cover an emergency, millions were working jobs with no security of tenure, millions more had no health insurance, an endless treadmill of precariously living paycheck to paycheck as the middle classes followed the working classes into poverty.

 

Sounds a bit like the uk,with people living week to week and maxing out credit cards,pay day loans also seem to be a growth industry.

[kingdong]

On 5/10/2020 at 4:44 AM, Cryingdick said:

 

The labor pool also has been swelling since the 70s. When women began to go into the workplace it has become flooded. This is why you need two incomes if you want the good life these days.Amazon has been making me rich so I sort of understand what they do.

 

Just keep sheltering in place things will work out fine.

 

Do you understand that Amazon is the only reason people aren't rioting in the streets? Do you understand at their earnings call Bezos said that Amazon will plow all $4 billion in profits to keep up the infrastructure that kept America running?

 

Do you understand the difference between realized and unrealized gains and losses under the generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP)?

Glad Amazon is a nice little earner for YOU,but feel it shows how fundamentally flawed the tax systems are when multi national companies such as Amazon and uber can get away with paying no taxes in their host countries,and do you think Amazon is donating four billion dollars out the goodness of their heart?they realise what threat their personal  golden goose is under.